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Echo42987
04-05-2005, 10:15 PM
Since no one ever looks in the home audio section I am posting this in here! I need help. I am looking for a simply amazing and stunning sound quality system for my house. I don't really have a budget right not mainly cause it's my dads system. He put me in charge of making it sound amazing.

Mainly cause he sat in my car and was literally just moved by how crisp and clear the music sounded he is throwing all his money towards his home audio system. SO I would really like to make him proud by getting him some awsome sound equipment, receiver, TV, DvD, etc. The whole nine yards.

SO PLEASE give me any links anywhere I can go to find this stuff. I would greatly appreciate it, to no ends!

Wonderbread
04-05-2005, 10:52 PM
Try the Soundillusions forum. A lot of the guys there know their Home Audio VERY well.

JimJ
04-05-2005, 10:53 PM
Since no one ever looks in the home audio section

Au contraire, my friend.

You need a budget, and you need to specify what exactly you want to do. Regular stereo (2.1)? 5.1 surround? 7.1 surround?

I can give you list after list of good equipment to pick from, but I need to know those two things.

Echo42987
04-05-2005, 10:55 PM
Surround for sure. 7.1 surround to be exact. And honestly budget...I'm not lookin' at anything in particular If you could just throw stuff at me that would be great!

I want pure SQ PURE, so pure you can just taste it. I mean I want it to sound so amazing it can't get any better.

JimJ
04-05-2005, 10:57 PM
I mean I want it to sound so amazing it can't get any better.

Seriously...a budget would come in awfully handy. Home audio gear gets pricey quick, and a budget would let me know what class of equipment you're looking at.

Echo42987
04-05-2005, 10:59 PM
Alright lets say $6,000 for the speakers and at least $3,000 for the TV. Thats what I threw in there cause my dad won't give me a number

He just keeps sayin' "Whatever it takes"

JimJ
04-05-2005, 11:04 PM
OK...since you don't have a budget, I'll give you a middle-of-the-road setup, and you can tell me if that's too expensive, or to go higher.

Receiver: Denon AVR-3805 http://www.crutchfield.com/S-AvXh7bn7Th0/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=033AV3805B&search=denon+7%2E1 does 7.1 channel surround. 120 watts into seven channels.

Speakers:

http://www.klipsch.com/
http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/
http://www.paradigm.com/
http://www.axiomaudio.com
http://www.ascendacoustics.com
http://www.athenaspeakers.com/

PV Audio
04-05-2005, 11:06 PM
ok well thats just ridiculous. so ur saying u can just go drop 100 grand on a system? i doubt it. good audio does not mean expensive audio. i can make a tower speaker that sounds just as good as any top of the line definitive or paradigm, for maybe 1/8th the cost. when u buy retail speakers, ur buying the cosmetics, the name, and the sales pitching. u pay about around 1% for the drivers themselves. also, surround usually doesn't tailor to high end sq systems. u have no imaging with a 7.1, its just all aorund u. a good speaker set will tell u the difference from rear left stage and just the left speaker. u can take the best retail speakers in the world, and if they're not set up right, they'll sound like crap. from here on out, i will only diy it. i used http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-806 two of those surrounding by a tweeter in a bookshelf speaker, and people couldnt tell me which was playing, my fathers 500 dollar infinitys or my 30 dollar bookshelves. the NSB is a WONDERFUL driver. it has a slightly hollow midrange, and is shrill on the highs. BUT, for $.49, it CANNOT be beaten. people couldn't tell (non-audiophiles) the difference between my advent towers and the NSBs, whose enclosures are paper paint buckets, no joke. this is the NSB:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=269-570
believe me when i say, that when u build it urself (including the crossover) that it will outshine anything u can buy in a store, and if not by sq alone, but by the fact that u built it urself and people are paying 10x as much as u paid for equivilent sound. so in recap, for sq/imaging, don't do a surround setup unless its for HT AND music, build the speakers urself, and experiment, experiment and do more experimentation. i did the above, and i'll never buy a speaker from a store EVER AGAIN. hope this helps. if u need some tips on driver selection, i'd be more than happy to give u a list depending on the type of speaker u want.

JimJ
04-05-2005, 11:06 PM
almost forgot...for subs, http://www.svsubwoofers.com/

JimJ
04-05-2005, 11:08 PM
so ur saying u can just go drop 100 grand on a system? i doubt it. good audio does not mean expensive audio.

That's what I tried to say...but if he has the dough, he has the dough, and DIY is only mandatory for us poor, starving audiophile folks that don't have any better option :)

PV Audio
04-05-2005, 11:08 PM
OK...since you don't have a budget, I'll give you a middle-of-the-road setup, and you can tell me if that's too expensive, or to go higher.

Receiver: Denon AVR-3805 http://www.crutchfield.com/S-AvXh7bn7Th0/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=033AV3805B&search=denon+7%2E1 does 7.1 channel surround. 120 watts into seven channels.

Speakers:

http://www.klipsch.com/
http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/
http://www.paradigm.com/
http://www.axiomaudio.com
http://www.ascendacoustics.com
http://www.athenaspeakers.com/
that receiver is beautiful..BUT, for any decent klipsch LET ALONE paradigm and axiom speakers, he'll need an amp with it. the sub NEEDS to be a DIY unless he can afford the top-o'-teh line paradigm or velodyne subs.

PV Audio
04-05-2005, 11:09 PM
DIY is only mandatory for us poor, starving audiophile folks that don't have any better option :)
i beg to differ. any serious audiophile, millionaire or not, will build his own speakers because he has finer control of what they will sound like. at least they SHOULD.

JimJ
04-05-2005, 11:09 PM
that receiver is beautiful..BUT, for any decent klipsch LET ALONE paradigm and axiom speakers, he'll need an amp with it.

?

You don't need more than 120W to drive any standard loudspeaker that's out there. Even 120W will drive a Quad electrostat or a Maggie.

PV Audio
04-05-2005, 11:10 PM
?

You don't need more than 120W to drive any standard loudspeaker that's out there. Even 120W will drive a Quad electrostat or a Maggie.
are we speaking aobut sats/bookshelves, or full towers? most definitive speakers are so power thirsty, u only hear 'em for what they really are with around 150 at LEAST.

Echo42987
04-05-2005, 11:10 PM
Thats actually the receiver I was looking at.

Yeah sorry about the money thing. He just wouldn't give me any numbers lol. But I will check all of those websites out and reserch this subject as much as possible. Thank you very much Frost

JimJ
04-05-2005, 11:11 PM
any serious audiophile, millionaire or not, will build his own speakers because he has finer control of what they will sound like. at least they SHOULD.

They should...but then again, http://www.stereophile.com/amplificationreviews/704wavac/ & http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/920/

PV Audio
04-05-2005, 11:14 PM
http://signature.paradigm.com/Flash_Site/SigProductFlash/S8/S8.html

these speakers sound amazing, as i have heard them, but they are power thirsty. another thing is to actually look at the drivers. next to the tweets in it, those are not very expensive drivers, i can tell you that. just use some sweat and blood and DIY it. better yet, DIY it for ur dad and cover them with sheets and then have him listen and guess how much they cost..i did that for my paint bucket speakers and my neighbor said 300 easy. heh 3 bucks a pair lol.

PV Audio
04-05-2005, 11:15 PM
They should...but then again, http://www.stereophile.com/amplificationreviews/704wavac/ & http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/920/
send me a pair of those speakers and in a week i'll have something that'll blow those outta the neighborhood for 1/8th that price.

JimJ
04-05-2005, 11:17 PM
I'm not saying they're worth that much...only that there is a market, albeit a small one, for them :)

JimJ
04-05-2005, 11:18 PM
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/nordost_valhalla.htm

And of course, you have to use those to wire it all up :D

PV Audio
04-05-2005, 11:22 PM
I'm not saying they're worth that much...only that there is a market, albeit a small one, for them :)
unless those work on magic, and i mean serious magic, then they aren't worth writing home about. just like in cars, there's no replacement for displacement. to have big sound, u need big drivers, or more drivers, AKA large overall surface area. good example is the bose 901. 9 drivers moves some serious air, which is why theyre still found in clubs to this day. the trend of the 12'' and 15'' speaker cones has gone by the wayside in favor of more aesthetically pleasing 8'' or 6.5''. i can guarantee u that speaker technology in terms of SQ has not changed within the past decade and a half, mainly from my dad's 87 jbl 12'' 3-ways that would blow the **** off any bose cube POS things. so, if ur looking for good sound, cheap satelite dixie cup speakers arent going to give it to you, regardless what the "audiophile" paid-on-commision store employee tells you.

p.s., this is to echo, not frost :D

PV Audio
04-05-2005, 11:24 PM
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/nordost_valhalla.htm

And of course, you have to use those to wire it all up :D
FORTY SIX ****ING HUNDRED? gimme some lamp cord, or if u wanna be adventurous, just get some **** canare wire. if ur spending over 5 bucks a foot ($$$) you have money out ur ***.

JimJ
04-05-2005, 11:27 PM
Seventy three hundred for the eight foot pair...

But when your amps cost as much as some people's houses, who cares? :D

PV Audio
04-05-2005, 11:31 PM
Seventy three hundred for the eight foot pair...

But when your amps cost as much as some people's houses, who cares? :D
:yumyum: that is teh uber ghey. maybe u can explain to me the significance of those amps and why they're so good, cause i don't get it

JimJ
04-05-2005, 11:42 PM
Those amps?

$350K for an amp defies logic. Yes, they're tubes...no, they're not worth anywhere near that much. The most I'd ever consider paying for a single amp would be around $5-6k.

laws of demand...*somebody* out there will buy one. or two.

speaking of Econ, I probably should be studying for that test I have tomorrow afternoon...

deaf tones
04-06-2005, 01:50 AM
ok well thats just ridiculous. so ur saying u can just go drop 100 grand on a system? i doubt it. good audio does not mean expensive audio.

HAHAHAHA!!!! doooooddddd...I used to work as an av installer with California Home Systems you'd be surprised what people would drop. Seriously! I've installed some ish where people drop well over 100k just in WIRES! This was right before plasma screens and HD became main stream...top of the line was 12' zenith projection screen theaters at about 50k just for the screen and projector

No joke man, home audio get's pricey dam quick.

"to have big sound, u need big drivers, or more drivers, AKA large overall surface area. good example is the bose 901. 9 drivers moves some serious air,"

oh yes...i love mine ;) *whispers...but it's only 8 4" speakers on each one...*

deaf tones
04-06-2005, 01:54 AM
how abouttttt:

tannoy subs off of NAD2200 w/ TAD 4001 hlcd's and ev horn bodies...about 6k

paradigm makes some very very nice stuff
klipsh also
monitor
harmon/kardon (a little mainstream though)


uuhhhmmmm...posibilities are endless, seriously

JimJ
04-06-2005, 02:48 AM
I was going to say NAD seperates, as well...they make a killer 7.1 processor and external 7 channel power amplifier - then all you'd need is a JL Gotham 3kW sub cabinet :D

bean
04-06-2005, 10:20 AM
I have a Denon 3805 and a full Klipsch surround speaker package... I f*cking love that reciever. I upgraded it from last year's 3803 and WOW! What a difference. That thing is awesome. If that's the one you get, you will not be dissappointed.
Also, Lemans....... I think you're so totally wrong about "building your own speaker" I think that's what you said in an earlier post. People (audiophiles) just don't do that. They're not engineers. Also the thing you mentioned that retail means you are buying cosmetics??? Come on' seriously? You get what you pay for in this world.

Echo42987
04-06-2005, 11:03 AM
How much are those new JL subs? Can someone give me a price...becaust they are frickin' sweet and I wanted to get one of those. and I dought I'll need the doulbe but if you coul give me prices on both?

Echo42987
04-06-2005, 11:15 AM
OK...since you don't have a budget, I'll give you a middle-of-the-road setup, and you can tell me if that's too expensive, or to go higher.

Receiver: Denon AVR-3805 http://www.crutchfield.com/S-AvXh7bn7Th0/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=033AV3805B&search=denon+7%2E1 does 7.1 channel surround. 120 watts into seven channels.

Speakers:

http://www.klipsch.com/
http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/
http://www.paradigm.com/
http://www.axiomaudio.com
http://www.ascendacoustics.com
http://www.athenaspeakers.com/

Alright that Denon is going to my choice of receiver. So now for the setup.

I was looking at Klipsch and was just simply amazed? What are there higher end models going to there lower end so I know where and what I am looking at. The Klipsch I was looking at were the Reference, Synergy and THX. What is low to high of those three.

For the Energy speakers very much loved the way they looked but how do the perform and also for those which are high to low? For these brand of speakers I was looking at the Encore and Take Series?

For the Paradigm I was looking at the Signature Series.

For Axiom I was looking at the Epic 80.

Wasn't very inmpressed with the Ascend Acoustics.

Then for the Athena I had no idea what I was looking at?

So jack or Lemans give me some help here. I feel like I'm walking into a whole new world after coming out of car audio lol. I feel like I did three years ago when I stepped into car audio. But I want to learn and need the help. I want to make my father proud. :veryhapp:

JimJ
04-06-2005, 12:25 PM
At this point, you need to start listening to them to find out what you like. I know Athena and Klipsch are both sold at Best Buy, so you can compare those two brands...the others are audio-shop only. Axiom, Paradigm, and Energy all get excellent reviews, start reading, and see what fits your tastes :)

Echo42987
04-06-2005, 04:02 PM
Alright I'm headin' over to circuit city, best buy, and tweeter to check some things out

PV Audio
04-06-2005, 06:24 PM
Also, Lemans....... I think you're so totally wrong about "building your own speaker" I think that's what you said in an earlier post. People (audiophiles) just don't do that. They're not engineers.
ok "bean", look at me. i am 16 yrs old and a sophmore in high school. i'm not in any advanced math classes, at least nothing highly regardable. what i am saying is, i CANNOT be an engineer, but yet i build my own speakers. if you TRULY care about the sound, not the looks (which is what "audiophile" speakers are all about) then you are a true audiophile. an audiophile doesn't have to have money, a good example is me. but if u buy polk or paradigm's highest end speakers because you have the money, that doesn't make u an audiophile. AND true audiophiles would never pay that much money out the *** for some retail speakers because they can get the drivers for up to 1/16 of the cost and build them themselves. u need not be an engineer to use a computer (or hand written formulas if you wanna keep it traditional) and a saw, some silicone, some screws and some speaker drivers.

PV Audio
04-06-2005, 06:25 PM
Alright I'm headin' over to circuit city, best buy, and tweeter to check some things out
ok stop. you just send u wanted the creme de la creme of audio, but you're going to best buy? come on man, get serious :rolleyes: . to buy a decent retail speaker, go to a small shop so you can listen in a small enough room that closely resembles your living arrangements.

bean
04-07-2005, 11:06 AM
ok "bean", look at me. i am 16 yrs old and a sophmore in high school. i'm not in any advanced math classes, at least nothing highly regardable. what i am saying is, i CANNOT be an engineer

hey, don't get me wrong. I think it is truly outstanding that at 16 yrs old you obviously have a passion for this stuff. I totally have respect for what I can tell you already know about this stuff.... So, let me say it this way...... It's difficult to build something that rivals the sound quality of a KEF, or Martin Logan, or Wilson Audio, or B&W speaker in the garage.... That's all.

JimJ
04-07-2005, 11:55 AM
OK...let's use a real world example.

I'm building a DIY pair of full range loudspeakers based off these: http://omegaloudspeakers.com/ts33.htm. If I use the same drivers (actually I'm using better drivers than they are) and the same cabinet specifications (with a very well built cabinet), why shouldn't I get them to sound *exactly the same* or better? They retail for $850...I could put my DIY version together for maybe half that. What do they have that I lack?

I realize there are some excellent sounding speakers out there, and some designs I woudn't even want to tackle...but there is nothing magical about commercially-made speakers at all.

Echo42987
04-07-2005, 04:15 PM
Alright Frost I think I got it. Not sure if you know who this brand is, which you most likely do. I am going with Martin Logan.

The Front two speakers will be the Martin Logans Clarity.
($1,300 for one)

The two rears will be Script i.
($1,000 for one)

The Center Channel well be Cinema i.
($1,000)

The amp/receiver will be the Denon AVR-3805.
($1199)

For the TV I haven't really decided but it's gonna be a flat panel to go on the wall. I will take picks when I am done with everything so you all can see it. I heard these speakers yesterday and was more then amazed! The clarity of them were just phenomenol. You could actually here the pedals of the piano going up to hit the strings. I was more then pleased with it's performance and know he will love it. He is gone till saturday so I'm gonna go get all of it and when he gets home he's going to have a brand new system in his house!

Tell me what ya'll think?

To check out any of the Martine Logan Products and to read about them go to
www.martinlogan.com

bean
04-07-2005, 04:20 PM
You will LOVE the Logan speakers

JimJ
04-07-2005, 04:32 PM
You're missing two channels, in case you noticed...you need side channels too :D

And you need a sub to go with that...

nosaj070
04-07-2005, 04:39 PM
ok "bean", look at me. i am 16 yrs old and a sophmore in high school. i'm not in any advanced math classes, at least nothing highly regardable. what i am saying is, i CANNOT be an engineer, but yet i build my own speakers. if you TRULY care about the sound, not the looks (which is what "audiophile" speakers are all about) then you are a true audiophile. an audiophile doesn't have to have money, a good example is me. but if u buy polk or paradigm's highest end speakers because you have the money, that doesn't make u an audiophile. AND true audiophiles would never pay that much money out the *** for some retail speakers because they can get the drivers for up to 1/16 of the cost and build them themselves. u need not be an engineer to use a computer (or hand written formulas if you wanna keep it traditional) and a saw, some silicone, some screws and some speaker drivers.

Lets see you design and build your own high end 3 way x-over....I don't see it happening. And to say that true audiophiles don't care how their speakers look...are you kidding me?

Anyway that martin logan stuff is excellent, but since you are already spending so much on that I would go ahead and recommend an SVS sub, to be brutally honest after hearing their highest end model (My uncle is loaded, no fair) I was absolutely blown away and really havn't heard a sub that sounded noticeable better.

squeak9798
04-07-2005, 04:45 PM
u need not be an engineer to use a computer (or hand written formulas if you wanna keep it traditional) and a saw, some silicone, some screws and some speaker drivers.

So I assume you have the electrical background and proper measurement equipment to build a room/speaker specific and optimized crossover, with trap filters, zobel networks, etc? And you know how to calculate the phase shift associated with each crossover filter type? How much do you understand about baffle steps? And this is just the easy stuff........


Sorry lemans....not trying to put you down or anything. But, you seem to be underestimating the amount of true engineering that goes into true audiophile quality speakers. This is not something that can be matched by most out of their garage.

Just because your untrained friends can't tell a difference, it doesn't mean one doesn't exist to the experienced listener ;)

PV Audio
04-07-2005, 05:39 PM
So I assume you have the electrical background and proper measurement equipment to build a room/speaker specific and optimized crossover, with trap filters, zobel networks, etc? And you know how to calculate the phase shift associated with each crossover filter type? How much do you understand about baffle steps? And this is just the easy stuff........


Sorry lemans....not trying to put you down or anything. But, you seem to be underestimating the amount of true engineering that goes into true audiophile quality speakers. This is not something that can be matched by most out of their garage.

Just because your untrained friends can't tell a difference, it doesn't mean one doesn't exist to the experienced listener ;)
ok perhaps you did not understand my use of the term audiophile. look at what frost posted in one of his posts in the thread, like 15 grand for a set of bookshelves, and THOSE are considered audiophile speakers. i define "phile" as someone with the passion for something that they want to be the best possible with their resources. if u go on diyaudio.com, you'll see bare mdf speakers that sound just as good as as the top of the line klipsch and paradigm stuff.


Lets see you design and build your own high end 3 way x-over....I don't see it happening. And to say that true audiophiles don't care how their speakers look...are you kidding me?actually for your information, I am currently learning how to build a 2-way crossover. ;)

PV Audio
04-07-2005, 05:41 PM
So I assume you have the electrical background and proper measurement equipment to build a room/speaker specific and optimized crossover, with trap filters, zobel networks, etc? And you know how to calculate the phase shift associated with each crossover filter type? How much do you understand about baffle steps? And this is just the easy stuff........


Sorry lemans....not trying to put you down or anything. But, you seem to be underestimating the amount of true engineering that goes into true audiophile quality speakers. This is not something that can be matched by most out of their garage.

Just because your untrained friends can't tell a difference, it doesn't mean one doesn't exist to the experienced listener ;)
oh, and i DID say the part about the math and physics required, which is more than anything else the important part in speaker building. i have books up to the ceiling on speaker building and the basic physics required to build a great sounding speaker for my age, income and abilities.

JimJ
04-07-2005, 06:51 PM
Lets see you design and build your own high end 3 way x-over....

Xovers...pfft, who needs 'em...crossoverless > complicated xovers.

:)

Echo42987
04-07-2005, 11:33 PM
Guys I just wanted help on finding the speakers. Not whether or not lemans can build crossovers and or speakers lol

And I probably was just going to leave 2 of the channels out and run it as a 5.1 or I was just gonna get the Mirages to go on the side. Also I forgot to put the sub on there its the Destiny I believe...Still Morgan systems. I was extremley impressed with them!

PV Audio
04-07-2005, 11:41 PM
Paradigm = overrated ...
;) we have established, and maybe you can vouch for me on this next note that wharfedale makes probably the best value/performance bookshelf speakers on the market, at least in eariler times.

PV Audio
04-07-2005, 11:44 PM
Guys I just wanted help on finding the speakers. Not whether or not lemans can build crossovers and or speakers lol

And I probably was just going to leave 2 of the channels out and run it as a 5.1 or I was just gonna get the Mirages to go on the side. Also I forgot to put the sub on there its the Destiny I believe...Still Morgan systems. I was extremley impressed with them!
ok ok, buy ur retail speakers, that's fine. BUT, i strongly encourage you to make your own subwoofer. get a decent driver (like an atlas 15''), make a box, and you'll have one heck of a driver that comepetes with the best of them, but not close to their 2 grand price tags (and much higher).

nosaj070
04-08-2005, 03:58 AM
ok ok, buy ur retail speakers, that's fine. BUT, i strongly encourage you to make your own subwoofer. get a decent driver (like an atlas 15''), make a box, and you'll have one heck of a driver that comepetes with the best of them, but not close to their 2 grand price tags (and much higher).

Although in most cases I would agree with you, I would not in this one. His dad doesn't care how much it costs and DIY is still expensive as well as time consuming. If he has never built a box before it will take a few before its perfect. Port noise is always a posibility as is the appearance of it. I built my own and I'm happy, but if I had th emoney to burn i would buy a premade in a heartbeat.

JimJ
04-08-2005, 08:10 AM
Oh yeah, did I mention I'm an ***-hole ?

n00b.

You know nothing :D

bean
04-08-2005, 11:16 AM
ok ok, buy ur retail speakers, that's fine. BUT, i strongly encourage you to make your own subwoofer. get a decent driver (like an atlas 15''), make a box, and you'll have one heck of a driver that comepetes with the best of them, but not close to their 2 grand price tags (and much higher).


curious..... How would you power that sub woofer up? You can't do it from the reciever.....


OBTW---- Plain MDF cabinets in my house........ f'n forget it.

Echo42987
04-08-2005, 11:24 AM
Yeah Lemans I'm not gonna agree with you on this one. That sub is 3 tens comparing to one 15. I'll take those 3 tens in SQ over 1 15 anyday!

I know a lot about car audio don't get me wrong, but I can't hook up that 4 ohm sub to my 8ohm output receiver either. It would destroy it in no time. And for bein' 16 lemans, I'll give you the benefit of the dought, you know what your talkin' about in some areas.

Also that sub the martin logan makes is almost better then my subs for petes sakes. It's just simply amazing and wouldn't mind throwing it in my car! They are great subs, alsmost to JL quality IN MY OPINION, so no one flips out on me.

PV Audio
04-08-2005, 04:44 PM
I wouldn't trust Lemans anyways ;)

Hooking up a 4 ohm sub to an 8 ohm receiver (in full range, mind you) and frying it ...

Buying a Pyramid car crossover for a home application (and not being able to use it because he didn't have a separate amp for the sub :laugh: ) ...

Saying that the 1/8 mile time should be less than half of the 1/4 mile time because acceleration drops off at higher speeds ...

Oh yeah, did I mention I'm an ***-hole ?
:D come on james, that was moths ago. how the hell do u remember that anyway? i know wtf i'm doing now, trust me.

PV Audio
04-08-2005, 04:46 PM
oh and FYI james, i didn't blow the amp afterall. just the fuse.

PV Audio
04-08-2005, 04:47 PM
Yeah Lemans I'm not gonna agree with you on this one. That sub is 3 tens comparing to one 15. I'll take those 3 tens in SQ over 1 15 anyday!

I know a lot about car audio don't get me wrong, but I can't hook up that 4 ohm sub to my 8ohm output receiver either. It would destroy it in no time. And for bein' 16 lemans, I'll give you the benefit of the dought, you know what your talkin' about in some areas.

Also that sub the martin logan makes is almost better then my subs for petes sakes. It's just simply amazing and wouldn't mind throwing it in my car! They are great subs, alsmost to JL quality IN MY OPINION, so no one flips out on me.
to you and bean regarding the sub power, use a plate amp from parts express. yes the 3 10s r probably louder, but not as price/performance as a diy sub. on that note, i'm out to the garage to start on my new towers WOOT!

JimJ
04-08-2005, 06:33 PM
I'll take those 3 tens in SQ over 1 15 anyday!

I wouldn't. Size of the driver = nothing to do with potential SQ of that driver. Now, if you want to talk potential frequency response, alright...but this is all so box dependent that you'd need to know that before making any assumptions.

PV Audio
04-08-2005, 07:47 PM
I wouldn't. Size of the driver = nothing to do with potential SQ of that driver. Now, if you want to talk potential frequency response, alright...but this is all so box dependent that you'd need to know that before making any assumptions.
i'd take a 15 over a 10 any day of the week even if it came with the pic of james' *** on it :D

Echo42987
04-09-2005, 12:55 AM
I know you all know what your talking about but I really think that a 10" sub could keep up a lot better then a 15. Not as much to move, etc. But the box was made just to the perfect specs according to Martin Logan... :)

But yeah the martin logan is 3 tens in one box, comparing to one 15. I will take those tens. I'm sorry

JimJ
04-09-2005, 02:24 AM
but I really think that a 10" sub could keep up a lot better then a 15. Not as much to move, etc.

More Mms (moving mass) doesn't translate into greater transient response. Adire Audio has some excellent technical papers on this...enclosure specifications are much more important than the mass of the cone.

bean
04-09-2005, 12:02 PM
That logan 3 ten enclosure............... Man, it'll knock your d!ck in the dirt. That thing is a bad *** sub!

Echo42987
04-09-2005, 01:00 PM
More Mms (moving mass) doesn't translate into greater transient response. Adire Audio has some excellent technical papers on this...enclosure specifications are much more important than the mass of the cone.

Thanx for the little mount of info

PV Audio
04-09-2005, 03:45 PM
Thanx for the little mount of info
if u didn't catch that, hagop is saying that those 3 10s are not necessarily better than the 15. its personal preference. i just like having a single driver, perhaps with a nice PR on the side.