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BDIDDY
02-28-2005, 06:04 PM
Been looking into building up a 350 and was looking at heads, since that would be the main part of my money, and was wondering is it better to just buy aftermarket heads?

Or should I get the stock ones ported, polished, and all the good stuff...?


Any suggestions..

ThumpMyHonda
02-28-2005, 06:22 PM
I would say get them ported and polished. I also know that the head gasket set for a 350 is REALLY REALLY cheap.

Polecat
02-28-2005, 07:31 PM
No, no, no...do not have stock heads rebuilt unless they are stock Vortec heads...if they are older Chevy castings, probably 882's, they stink for street performance usage. They have like 76cc combustion chambers, and small intake runners.

You'd be far ahead to buy some Dart Iron Eagle heads...you can order them in 72cc and 64cc combustion chambers, and from 170cc to 230cc runners. Don't overkill here...bigger is not always better. So if you replace pistons, look at getting 9.5:1 compression, not static compression on a daily driver. Add a good Comp hydraulic cam and be ready to go...usually a good Holley 650 carb is fine...no need to overkill on gas. :)

BDIDDY
02-28-2005, 08:29 PM
Well if everything goes as planned this won't be my daily driver. I just want something reliable and quick also.

Any heads work at all?

Will they make that much difference? If I get aftermarket heads is there any need to get work done to them?

I saw a set that were rated at 425 horse with a certain intake and carb, thats about what I want to run at. I just want something reliable but still fast as all get out...


Thanks for the help thus far...

Polecat
02-28-2005, 08:38 PM
Not just any head, you need it to match cam, compression,runners,etc...
But seriously look at the Dart Iron Eagles...they run awesome right out of the box...I had the aliminum Dart Pro 1's on my 406, and now I'm sold on Dart. I had World Products Sportsman II's...and after paying $800 for a set, less than one year later had to have them redone because of guides. :(

if you need help on a cheap motor combo, email me and I'd be glad to help.

Tracy

analogkid
02-28-2005, 10:32 PM
vortec heads are cheap and the arguably the best stock heads for a SBC. only catch is that you will have to buy a vortec specific manifold as the bolt angles are different from all the others. 400-425 could be made with a new box stock set without much trouble. its just the issue of getting a bunch of parts that will work well together. 1 surefire way is to read a bunch of hotrod mags and exactly duplicate a motor they have built up. a little tuning and you can be very close to what they did in the writeup you choose.

Polecat
03-01-2005, 09:08 AM
true, Vortec's are undoubtably the best stock head, problem is on a performance street motor, your mlimited to .450 lift cam. :(
Plus, you'll need self aligning rockers, and special intake and valvecovers...so really by the time you add that up, other heads look more appealing...but I agree, best stock head there is, even over the older doublehumps. :)

soundstreamer
03-02-2005, 10:59 PM
after never getting a chance to look up close and personal at vortec heads, i went ahead and bought some. i was most impressed with the runners. So smooth and rounded in the curves compared to the older style's almost 90 degree right angle exhaust runners, it's amazing nobody thought of them earlier. the centerbolt valve covers are a bonus because i've had nothing but bad luck sealing the older, flange bolted style without leaks. changing to a new intake was no big deal because i wanted to try edelbrock's air gap anyhow and was planning on buying a new intake anyhow.
the two downfalls i see with vortec heads is that:
1) i hear(i haven't checked my clearance, so i don't know) that you can't have too much of a lift(.400ish basically stock) on your cam without having major problems.
2) they need self aligning roller rockers(about twice the price of standeard roller rockers)
all in all, i love the vortec heads on my 350. i am running a 750cfm eldelbrock carb and 9.1:1 compression and have more than enough "umph" in my truck to pass with ease and impress any passenger that asks: "what'll it do?".

BDIDDY
03-03-2005, 08:53 AM
Do you think I could call summit or some place, whenever I get ready, and ask them to build me a combo? I just want something that will run, and be reliable...

I will check into those heads...


Thanks alot for the info..

BDIDDY
03-03-2005, 09:13 AM
I looked some up, pretty decent prices, even though I only checked one web site...

http://www.diabolicalperformance.com/dartheads.html

I was looking there, even though I don't know much about them bigger numbers always look better to me. But these right here sound nice... Under the Iron Eagles, halfway down the page...

My dad said that angled plugs give you more horse too, is that true?


DRTIRON215
215cc
64 or 72
2.05/1.60
1.437double
angle or straight
$499

analogkid
03-03-2005, 03:34 PM
angled plugs dont do a **** thing.......except help you with clearance issues from your headers/make it easier to help change spark plugs. but even that depends on your specific application.

BDIDDY
03-04-2005, 08:24 AM
I looked some up, pretty decent prices, even though I only checked one web site...

http://www.diabolicalperformance.com/dartheads.html

I was looking there, even though I don't know much about them bigger numbers always look better to me. But these right here sound nice... Under the Iron Eagles, halfway down the page...

My dad said that angled plugs give you more horse too, is that true?


DRTIRON215
215cc
64 or 72
2.05/1.60
1.437double
angle or straight
$499



So what about these heads...?

Are the heads the first part to worry about, then cam, intake, and carb?

cheeseburger35
03-05-2005, 01:13 AM
So what about these heads...?

Are the heads the first part to worry about, then cam, intake, and carb?


yes and no... unless your going pretty big .. no.. you can get a good cam to work with stock springs and then get intake and a carb... but if you're going big the heads need to be first..

assassyn
03-06-2005, 12:05 AM
edlebrock performer RPM alum, they are good

Polecat
03-06-2005, 11:19 AM
So what about these heads...?

Are the heads the first part to worry about, then cam, intake, and carb?
unless you plan to build a bigegr cube engine over 400 cubes, 180cc to 200c runners would be beter suited..you want the head and cam to work together..
with 215cc runner, you'll want steep gears, bigger cam, more compression and converter.

BDIDDY
03-06-2005, 02:30 PM
unless you plan to build a bigegr cube engine over 400 cubes, 180cc to 200c runners would be beter suited..you want the head and cam to work together..
with 215cc runner, you'll want steep gears, bigger cam, more compression and converter.



So I will need to go a step down from those heads...


I don't want too much compression but enough to get me some power, because I know with more compression the higher the grade gas you have to use...


Me and my dad were talking and he has a 400 engine, I think I will take the crank out of it and build a stroker. He was saying if we can find a nice 350 with low mileage then we wouldnt bore it out because that is labor intensive, just get it honed. The crank and such would be balanced, he says it saves the bearing and such. My dad also said that the strokers had bearing problems, something about throwing them out or something. Any cons to the stroker motor?

How many horses do you think a 383 will make with the iron eagle heads, carb, intake, and headers?

Anything you can do for torque or does that come with horse power?



Thanks for the help.......

Polecat
03-06-2005, 07:07 PM
if the 400 is in good shape, and a 509 or 511 casting, by all means, use it. Unless it's been punched over .40 already. I wouldn't use one over .40. The simeased cylinders are too close at .60 over.
But, if you have a fresh 350, stock bore...have it bored .30 over...and hone the block. A machine shop will do all of that...but here's the deal..if you use a 400 crank in a 350, you have several options...but don't forget, you need the flywheel and damper off that 400...because they are externally balanced.
Now, you can use either 5.7" 350 rods or 5.565" 400 rods...you'll need to order pistons accordingly to match the rods you use.
But for what it cost to have that 400 crank turned, you can by a cheap inexpensice rotating assembly which comes with everything you'll need from like Summit Racing.

But I had two 383's...
one was 11:1 and the other was 10:1.
But you can do like I did...had a 350, and got a rotating assembly from Speed-O-Motive.
Had it double checked, and balanced.
350 bored .030 over.
Slid the rotating assembly in there, and added the World Products Sportsman II's. They were 64cc combustion chambers, 200 cc runners, and a Comp XE274 cam. Edelbrock RPM intake, Holley #4779 750 DP carb, HEI and MSD box. Now with this cam you'll need a 2500 ish stall, and decent gears like 3.55 or 3.73.
That will make a screamer! My 4200 lb truck ran 13.40's with that combo and drove it daily.

Now if you want less gears and stall, keep compression around 9.5:1 and use the Comp XE268 cam. Better 'street' cam....

TrlcKed_OuT
03-06-2005, 07:11 PM
do u have everything or u just starting the motor... try lik jr motorsports amd look at some of their motor kits....

BDIDDY
03-07-2005, 11:03 AM
if the 400 is in good shape, and a 509 or 511 casting, by all means, use it. Unless it's been punched over .40 already. I wouldn't use one over .40. The simeased cylinders are too close at .60 over.
But, if you have a fresh 350, stock bore...have it bored .30 over...and hone the block. A machine shop will do all of that...but here's the deal..if you use a 400 crank in a 350, you have several options...but don't forget, you need the flywheel and damper off that 400...because they are externally balanced.
Now, you can use either 5.7" 350 rods or 5.565" 400 rods...you'll need to order pistons accordingly to match the rods you use.
But for what it cost to have that 400 crank turned, you can by a cheap inexpensice rotating assembly which comes with everything you'll need from like Summit Racing.

But I had two 383's...
one was 11:1 and the other was 10:1.
But you can do like I did...had a 350, and got a rotating assembly from Speed-O-Motive.
Had it double checked, and balanced.
350 bored .030 over.
Slid the rotating assembly in there, and added the World Products Sportsman II's. They were 64cc combustion chambers, 200 cc runners, and a Comp XE274 cam. Edelbrock RPM intake, Holley #4779 750 DP carb, HEI and MSD box. Now with this cam you'll need a 2500 ish stall, and decent gears like 3.55 or 3.73.
That will make a screamer! My 4200 lb truck ran 13.40's with that combo and drove it daily.

Now if you want less gears and stall, keep compression around 9.5:1 and use the Comp XE268 cam. Better 'street' cam....



Alright thanks for the info. I aint building it right now, I am just trying to get my knowledge up on this stuff. I think if I did do it I would go with the 350 rods just a tad bit bigger, and use those iron eagle heads. Then I will need to match a cam, intake, and carb. I want that real lopy idle. That idle that sounds like the car isnt even running right...

I think I will try 4.11 gears, even though someone told me it eats up the gas really bad. Me getting that engine bored .030 over will run some money though won't it? The stall youre talking about is when the wheels spin right? Like you can give it gas until it hits 2500 then it spins, right?


What about these heads, they are a step down from those I mentioned above, same website though. It says chamber, 64 or 72 what does that mean? Do you think these will work? Also did you have any problems out of your stroker engine?



DRTIRON200
200cc
64 or 72
2.02/1.60
1.250single
angle or straight
$449


Again thanks...

Polecat
03-07-2005, 05:27 PM
64cc and 72cc is all about how much compression you'll need, as well as cam, and lobe seperation....
asfar as having a complete block done, look to spend $400-$500 on a good job....maybe less since you don't need the crank turned and balanced.

Those heads are perfect...my 406 has 6" rods, and JE forged pistons...

BDIDDY
03-07-2005, 06:01 PM
64cc and 72cc is all about how much compression you'll need, as well as cam, and lobe seperation....
asfar as having a complete block done, look to spend $400-$500 on a good job....maybe less since you don't need the crank turned and balanced.

Those heads are perfect...my 406 has 6" rods, and JE forged pistons...



I got to looking at those kits you were talking about and I guess I need to go with the budget 350 kit. It's about 500, has crank, and pistons and all. I might have to see about boring it out, just have to talk to my dad. No replacement for displacement is what I heard... :D


Now what about headers? My friend has a 89 chevy truck and is looking into to putting headers on it. Any certain brand or type he should get?


As far as I go, what type should I use..? I heard long tube were nice, but there is a post on here that says with some headers you don't even make power...?...



Thanks..

Polecat
03-07-2005, 06:33 PM
you will make more power, no doubt about it...Hedman makes some good ones, as well as dynomax...get 1 5/8" headers...full tube, 3" collectors.
A 355 (350 bored .030) will make some serious power....you also have to consider notching the block and rods for a 383 in a 350 block...so a 355 may be a better choice...still use the XE268 or XE274 cam, keep compression around 9.5:1.

Polecat
03-07-2005, 07:08 PM
here's a good simple combo
Displacement: 350 cu. in.
Carburetor: Holley 750 double-pumper
Heads: GM L31 Vortecs, pocket-ported, with 1.94/1.50 in. valves
Intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM Vortec
Camshaft: Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 268 hydraulic, with 0.478/0.480 in. of lift and 224/230 of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift.
Exhaust: Hedman 1 5/8 in. headers and Borla XR-1 mufflers
Distributor: HEI
Comp. Ratio: 9.4:1

MAX HP: 409 @ 6000
MAX Torque: 427 @ 3500
you can order the heads ready for the larger lift cam from GM.

BDIDDY
03-08-2005, 08:32 AM
you will make more power, no doubt about it...Hedman makes some good ones, as well as dynomax...get 1 5/8" headers...full tube, 3" collectors.
A 355 (350 bored .030) will make some serious power....you also have to consider notching the block and rods for a 383 in a 350 block...so a 355 may be a better choice...still use the XE268 or XE274 cam, keep compression around 9.5:1.



So it would either be bore it out or get the block and rods notched? 9.5:1 is a pretty good compression ratio, right? I could still run on mid to premium gas?


That 350 combo you posted made alot of power, suprised it made that much... But I think that if I ordered those heads from GM they would run me a decent amount of coin...do you think so?



Sorry about me pestering you....but again thanks..

Polecat
03-08-2005, 10:02 AM
if you make either a 355 or 383, you'll need the stock 350 bored .030 over....just the 383 will need to be notched to make clearance for the longer stroke.
Those heads can be found at
here (http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2172/SDPC-Vortec-Cylinder-Heads-and-Head-Kits.htm) for $388 each....good price, even cheaper than the Dart.
Look at part number SD8060AGP.

BDIDDY
03-08-2005, 10:11 PM
if you make either a 355 or 383, you'll need the stock 350 bored .030 over....just the 383 will need to be notched to make clearance for the longer stroke.
Those heads can be found at
here (http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2172/SDPC-Vortec-Cylinder-Heads-and-Head-Kits.htm) for $388 each....good price, even cheaper than the Dart.
Look at part number SD8060AGP.



Not sure what engine I am gonna do up...not really even close to building one, I just wanted to get my info up and get into what products are good and which ones are bad. Those heads sound really nice, but what about that intake that it comes with? Good or should I trash it?


Well I think I'm about out of questions, thanks for ALL of the help...



Take it easy..

Polecat
03-09-2005, 05:26 PM
if you use the Vortec heads, you'll need that intake...different pattern that the older regular intakes...

BDIDDY
03-09-2005, 07:26 PM
if you use the Vortec heads, you'll need that intake...different pattern that the older regular intakes...



My dad talked to a machine shop and they recommended getting a vortec 350 engine and working with that. Rebuilding it, with the aftermarket cam, intake, carb..etc... They said it would put out around 400 without boring it out or anything.


Once I get some more info on what he knows I'll see what you think..

Polecat
03-09-2005, 07:38 PM
cool...just give me a shout. :)

BDIDDY
03-10-2005, 08:26 AM
cool...just give me a shout. :)



The manchine shop said that from 96 (?) on up is when the vortec engine was started. You can put vortec heads on a newer model block but you can't put vortec heads on a older model block. Because there are different water passages and such. All they have to do is a little head work and I have to get a special intake. There is something about the fuel injected vortec's that you need a special intake to fit it on there. So I will have to make a package of the cam, intake, and carb that I would need.


They said that it would put out around 400-410 horses...

Polecat
03-11-2005, 01:53 PM
the newer Vortec have a different bolt pattern for the intake...

BDIDDY
03-11-2005, 06:30 PM
the newer Vortec have a different bolt pattern for the intake...


http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2352&prmenbr=361


That's the intake they mentioned I could use...

There's others I think...



I work at a body shop and one of the guys up there knows the machine shop my dad talked to...Supposed to be the best around here, so I think I'll get the hook up. :up2somet:

If I have anymore questions I jump back on here, but whenever I get it done I'll get some pics..

Also they said I would have to get rid of my 20's, my avatar, do they affect the gearing and such?..

Polecat
03-13-2005, 12:58 PM
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2352&prmenbr=361


That's the intake they mentioned I could use...

There's others I think...



I work at a body shop and one of the guys up there knows the machine shop my dad talked to...Supposed to be the best around here, so I think I'll get the hook up. :up2somet:

If I have anymore questions I jump back on here, but whenever I get it done I'll get some pics..

Also they said I would have to get rid of my 20's, my avatar, do they affect the gearing and such?..yes, the #7516....
get rid of your 20's and avatar??

BDIDDY
03-13-2005, 05:15 PM
yes, the #7516....
get rid of your 20's and avatar??



So the #7516 is the air gap intake I mentioned above?...

I was talking about my 20's that are on my car, which is my car in my avatar...


Is the air gap intake a decent intake for power or is there another one that would do any better?


Any of the little stuff I should look into? The riser plate between the intake and the carb? High flow water pump? Transmission cooler? Filters? Plugs and wires?..

Polecat
03-14-2005, 06:29 PM
So the #7516 is the air gap intake I mentioned above?...

I was talking about my 20's that are on my car, which is my car in my avatar...


Is the air gap intake a decent intake for power or is there another one that would do any better?


Any of the little stuff I should look into? The riser plate between the intake and the carb? High flow water pump? Transmission cooler? Filters? Plugs and wires?..
there's no reason to change the rims...none whatsoever...
the Airgap is an ok intake, basically the same as the regular Performer RPM, but cost more because of the gap...the gap adds no power though...
No riser plate..kills TQ...adds HP on the big end, but you drive 95% of your time in slow/moderate speed.Transmission cooler if you add a torque converter for sure...always with one over stock RPM.
Plug wires, taylor 8.8's are the best...don't by the cheap Accell...plugs, the head manufacture will reccomend some, with proper gaps...usually .035 to .038.

BDIDDY
03-15-2005, 10:42 AM
there's no reason to change the rims...none whatsoever...
the Airgap is an ok intake, basically the same as the regular Performer RPM, but cost more because of the gap...the gap adds no power though...
No riser plate..kills TQ...adds HP on the big end, but you drive 95% of your time in slow/moderate speed.Transmission cooler if you add a torque converter for sure...always with one over stock RPM.
Plug wires, taylor 8.8's are the best...don't by the cheap Accell...plugs, the head manufacture will reccomend some, with proper gaps...usually .035 to .038.


I wasnt sure about the rims, it was just what they had said. My dad said I just wouldnt want to be out of the street spinning the tires and racing it with those wheels and tires..

Any other intakes out there? Or should that be the last worry on my mind. My dad talked to one of his buddy's that has a transmission shop and they said instead of a shift kit, that I should use the corvette valve bodies and such...

Ignatowski
03-27-2005, 06:25 AM
nope,dont redo chevy heads - thin junk
buy aftermarket
I am an avid drag racer and have built quite a few combinations - if you need some suggestions PM me - or I could offer you this one for your ride
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/excelerater/motorside.jpg

BDIDDY
03-27-2005, 05:57 PM
nope,dont redo chevy heads - thin junk
buy aftermarket
I am an avid drag racer and have built quite a few combinations - if you need some suggestions PM me - or I could offer you this one for your ride
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/excelerater/motorside.jpg



Well from what I have heard they are decent to work with, and noone has had any bad comments about them. Polecat recommended them, and the best machine shop around my area said I could get 400+ horses out of that 350 vortec that I already bought. I am not going for an all out race engine, I just need something powerful, but reliable for crusing around the street...

Plus with gas $2+ around here, I'd be better to build a cavalier... :p:

Ignatowski
03-27-2005, 06:08 PM
Vortecs are excellent,I love em
everything else is a waste IMO to invest in
but the vortecs need 350.00 worth of upgrades
Valves,screw in studs,bigger spring pockets,springs,guides
mill and valvejob
add it up and your around 600.00 - allmost the price for a set of Darts
which will be alot more durable -

BDIDDY
03-27-2005, 06:30 PM
Vortecs are excellent,I love em
everything else is a waste IMO to invest in
but the vortecs need 350.00 worth of upgrades
Valves,screw in studs,bigger spring pockets,springs,guides
mill and valvejob
add it up and your around 600.00 - allmost the price for a set of Darts
which will be alot more durable -


I see what youre saying, I havent gotten that far yet but when I do I'll let you know. But when I do get it running and if it does break then I will come on here and apologize to you... ;)


I already have the engine and don't have another 800 to buy heads, still need intake, cam, and carb...plus other little odds and ends...


Thanks for your suggestions though.

Polecat
03-28-2005, 09:07 PM
Vortecs are excellent,I love em
everything else is a waste IMO to invest in
but the vortecs need 350.00 worth of upgrades
Valves,screw in studs,bigger spring pockets,springs,guides
mill and valvejob
add it up and your around 600.00 - allmost the price for a set of Darts
which will be alot more durable -
I agree....nice motor by the way... :)