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View Full Version : Rear fill - good thing or waste of time?



MikeS
01-15-2005, 10:21 PM
Hey guys,

I've gotten the vibe from several posts around here that rear fill is not a good thing. I can certainly see the phase issues introduced with having a second set of speakers behind your head.

What's everyone's feeling on this? Is it something that is bad for your overall sound and should be taken out regardless, or is it just a place to cut corners if you're trying to save some dough?

I pulled my DEI 4" coaxs out of the back of my car and in general my rig works and sounds better. My sub level was tied to my rear outs, so now I can control the mix of my sub and my mains easily with the fader control. I also noticed a significant improvement in imaging and clarity because I don't have multiple unlike sources pumping out the same signal.

As you'd expect, the listening experience for a back seat passenger is degraded. You hear a lot of sub in my back seats. Fortunatley I can fade the sub down when I have rear passengers.

So what do you guys think about all this?

Mike

VoTran24
01-15-2005, 10:40 PM
I tried to listen to my speakers with it the fader being all in the front and no sound from coming from the rear except the sub in the cargo area. I have a 4runner so it might be different because of the bigger space; but to me it sounds much better with the rear speakers on. Makes it feel like im being surrounded by the music and it sounds more full.

ANeonRider
01-15-2005, 10:54 PM
Waste of time and money, with a properly equipped and installed front soundstage, rear fill is a waste and detrimental to SQ.

Raven
01-15-2005, 10:57 PM
Wow, ANeonRider, that was bias.

Anyhoo, there's a HUGE number of factors involved here. Personally, I don't like the real fill in my Taurus, unless it's just tweeters (kinky..). It basically comes down to the vehicle you drive, and what you like to hear.

ANeonRider
01-15-2005, 10:59 PM
Wow, ANeonRider, that was bias.

Care to define bias?

Screw it, I will:


bi-as:
1. A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.


Nope, not really.

UndercoverPunk
01-15-2005, 11:03 PM
I don't miss my rear fill. My front stage is way more than enough to make up for it. I say take it out and seal the holes with deadening.

cheeseburger35
01-15-2005, 11:13 PM
i guess i don't have much "rear fill" but i do have 8 mids/highs in my single cab truck 2 4x6 plates in the dash with tweeters 2 in the rear panels and 4 6.5 in a center console thingy between my dash and my bench seat... now the the dash and the rears are louder than the 4 6.5's but that's because of where they're at so i turned the 4x6's down a bit and it all meshes really good.... and i know for a fact that it sounds louder/better now... then when i had just the 4x6's turned up... by the way i'm running all infinity kappa...

ANeonRider
01-15-2005, 11:16 PM
i guess i don't have much "rear fill" but i do have 8 mids/highs in my single cab truck 2 4x6 plates in the dash with tweeters 2 in the rear panels and 4 6.5 in a center console thingy between my dash and my bench seat... now the the dash and the rears are louder than the 4 6.5's but that's because of where they're at so i turned the 4x6's down a bit and it all meshes really good.... and i know for a fact that it sounds louder/better now... then when i had just the 4x6's turned up... by the way i'm running all infinity kappa...

You have speakers in the center console? Holy confused front stage batman.

Raven
01-15-2005, 11:16 PM
Care to define bias? ... Nope, not really.

Touché. Yeah, maybe bias was the wrong word. Does "That's a very strong opinion about the matter, ANeonRider." sound better?

ANeonRider
01-15-2005, 11:17 PM
Yes

Raven
01-15-2005, 11:22 PM
Awesome.

What if you have a 60 passenger bus? Eventually you're gonna have to add another set of speakers. They won't be front fill, but they sure as hell are gonna be necessary.

I don't really have room to talk. I unplugged my rear fill after I amped the front about a week ago. Didn't even notice a difference. =p

ZeroSktr56
01-15-2005, 11:24 PM
Well, shoot. Maybe I should sell my Infinity's in the back since the majority of you guys say rear fill is useless. I don't sit in the back so they are pretty pointless huh.

ANeonRider
01-15-2005, 11:24 PM
In that case, you probably would have to use something, but how many 60 pass buses are concerned about their SQ? lol

But I get what ya mean, its really up to your ears, but even in a van/burban/SUV I wouldn't see the need if you properly install the soundstage.

ANeonRider
01-15-2005, 11:26 PM
Well, shoot. Maybe I should sell my Infinity's in the back since the majority of you guys say rear fill is useless. I don't sit in the back so they are pretty pointless huh.

Just fade to the front and see how you like it first. That's what I did and realized that it sounded much much better.

UndercoverPunk
01-15-2005, 11:28 PM
I know I won't be putting in rears in my wagon.

UndercoverPunk
01-15-2005, 11:29 PM
Good comps and and amp on them is a must though.

Acidburn
01-15-2005, 11:32 PM
i would say if you have an amp for your front stage, rear fill is definitely not necesary
but if you're just using the HU's power, you may want to consider the rear fill

UndercoverPunk
01-15-2005, 11:39 PM
i would say if you have an amp for your front stage, rear fill is definitely not necesary
but if you're just using the HU's power, you may want to consider the rear fill

You're so smart. That's a very good way to put it.

Raven
01-15-2005, 11:41 PM
That's about how it goes. HUs should have an option to lowpass rear fill. That would definitely help with those looking for that extra oomph when upgrading a stock HU.

audiolife
01-15-2005, 11:43 PM
ok before you guys rip into this lets see how your system sounds. get a test cd (iasca disc or an autosound 2000 disc) 20 bucks to learn guys and its not rocket science. do you have right or left biased sound? does it center? does it sound like it is in front of you? (if you have refill it prolly wont but there is a trick to this) they play voices that are strictly left right and center. if you have refill at about the same level as the fronts it will pull hard and sound like ****. turn the backs way down or off and try it again at the same volume as before i guarantee it will seem louder and 100 times more clear. you might ask yourself that doesnt make sense when if fact it does. you need a VERY simple refference that all the speakers are playing to notice. (playing music with alot going on just makes it to0 cluttered to tell what is going on.) most refill speakers are physically 90 degrees out of phase with the fronts so the waves will fight door mounted speakers are even worse. when sound waves fight it muddies up the sound by a long shot. thats a physics fact. if you disagree read up on thoeries of superposition.

Acidburn
01-15-2005, 11:47 PM
You're so smart. That's a very good way to put it.

why thank you :toast:

MikeS
01-15-2005, 11:59 PM
Audiolife is right on about this stuff. Phase cancellation is the worst thing in the world for clarity. This situtation is akin to wiring your front speakers out of phase. It was night and day for me when I started fading the rears out how the sound stage became more defined and full. I've worked in recording studios for 10 years and it never occured to me how running two sets of speakers pushing out the same signal 6 or 8 feet apart is(doh!). Especially when they're behind your head!! If we we're running 4 or 5 channel audio out a la surround sound that'd be a different story...

I think it makes sense to sell upgraded rear fill speakers to help fund an amp purchase for the front speakers. I think I'll do that!! Anyone want some DEI 4" coaxs?!?!?

Mike

profilepower
01-16-2005, 12:17 AM
yes you need it from the rear i know for a fact...
if you aint gettin it from the rear then youre missing something....

Acidburn
01-16-2005, 12:19 AM
yes you need it from the rear i know for a fact...
if you aint gettin it from the rear then youre missing something....

hahahahhaha am i the only one seeing this as meaning something else?

UndercoverPunk
01-16-2005, 12:35 AM
yes you need it from the rear i know for a fact...
if you aint gettin it from the rear then youre missing something....

Oh yeah, that's going in the sig.

Acidburn
01-16-2005, 12:37 AM
haha nice, it's definitely a keeper

audiolife
01-16-2005, 12:46 AM
lmaooooo

supa_c
01-16-2005, 12:55 AM
if you aint gettin it from the rear then youre missing something....
:moon:
/\
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oo

Acidburn
01-16-2005, 12:56 AM
:moon:
/\
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oo

x2...

MikeS
01-16-2005, 01:37 AM
hahahaha....ridiculous...I think I'll lay out on getting it in the rear, thank you very much....

Bartak1
01-16-2005, 02:03 AM
Yeah, its just what you like best. If you liek the way it sounds, keep the rear fill. I put the fader to the front in my truck and once I turned it up I didnt even notice a difference, so I put my amp on my front preamp outputs and put the fader all the way to the front.

ighettoboyi
01-16-2005, 01:48 PM
personally, i ddint think my front stage was good enough for me to toss my rears. and since my rears are in the doors not the deck, i figured iw oudlnt be hearing too much of it as it is (which i don't). when i used to have normal 6.5"s in the back you could hear them and it did kinda kill the staging but w/o anything felt somewhat lacking. personally i love the cl-6x, can't even really tell theres speakers in the back when you're sitting back there, but it does make a difference becuase i like the sound a lot better with that added ambiance rather than straight frontstage

ighettoboyi
01-16-2005, 01:49 PM
o and one more thing, your friends might give you cr@p about having no rears but screw em. my friends always say "what happened to your rears" or one of my stupid friends even says "rears are WAY more important than front" sigh

alti98
01-16-2005, 01:51 PM
For me rear fill did nothing.

My subs over powered the rear fill so i figured why have it.

Took out the rear speakers and moved down to a 2 channel amp. couldnt be happier and the people who ride in the back say they dont see a difference.

If were going for a total sq setup id go with rear fill.

bonesninja
01-16-2005, 01:54 PM
Well, shoot. Maybe I should sell my Infinity's in the back since the majority of you guys say rear fill is useless. I don't sit in the back so they are pretty pointless huh.

basically what it boils down too is personal preference---DO NOT go out and start sellin stuff just because a couple ppl on here said that rear fill is useless. it's your car and no one on here is gonna refund your money if you want your rear fill back. just do some experimenting and make up your own mind. i have my opinions on the subject which i won't share because it is MY opinion and preference and nobody can tell you what sounds good to your ears.

nikosbuddy
01-16-2005, 10:49 PM
yes you need it from the rear i know for a fact...
if you aint gettin it from the rear then youre missing something....

i dont think hell be making his way back into this post....
i think this is one of his best lines....

profilepower
01-17-2005, 11:04 AM
you know what NO rear fills say???? it screams LOOK every1 i'm too poor to buy rear speakers! hAHAHahAHahA

supa_c
01-17-2005, 12:23 PM
Maby for you, but not a normal person.

ighettoboyi
01-17-2005, 12:40 PM
LOL wow. if only we could ban people

UndercoverPunk
01-17-2005, 01:30 PM
If were going for a total sq setup id go with rear fill.

Maybe if you were going for a 5.1 setup, but SQ no

Nitropyro666
01-17-2005, 01:35 PM
well i onlt care about SQ and listen to rock and with my van i MUST have rear fill
Danny

audiolife
01-17-2005, 02:33 PM
you know what NO rear fills say???? it screams LOOK every1 i'm too poor to buy rear speakers! hAHAHahAHahA
either that or you are too stupid or just dont understand lol. rear fill is ambiant not direct

supa_c
01-17-2005, 02:35 PM
I bet he thinks bass is directional so you have to point the sub at you and not the back of the car

profilepower
01-17-2005, 02:45 PM
point toward the back????? my subs on my rear seat pointing to the front.......sitting in the middle...
i'm not sitting in the back driving...hAHAHahAHAhA
look i dont know about all themfancy school words you saying like directal n stuff but i do know you can hear it better pointing at you....if sound isnt better pointed at you why at every concert they got tham big speakers pointing at the folks out in the stands????lol
you kids crack me up.....
so you sayin ya trunk bass is louder than my in my car not 30inches from me bass?????

supa_c
01-17-2005, 02:46 PM
Lol, wasnt i right.
Time to do some reading there profilepower ;)

Nikuk
01-17-2005, 03:23 PM
rear fill is a waste usually. moves the stage too far.

audiolife
01-17-2005, 03:36 PM
point toward the back????? my subs on my rear seat pointing to the front.......sitting in the middle...
i'm not sitting in the back driving...hAHAHahAHAhA
look i dont know about all themfancy school words you saying like directal n stuff but i do know you can hear it better pointing at you....if sound isnt better pointed at you why at every concert they got tham big speakers pointing at the folks out in the stands????lol
you kids crack me up.....
so you sayin ya trunk bass is louder than my in my car not 30inches from me bass?????
yuh and notice the speakers at the concert are in front of you to not behind you. o geez i got tickets to go see metalica i think ill turn my back on the show to get a better listen...oh wait lets go to a pink floyd concert and do the samething and miss the light show so i can listen to it better.

profilepower
01-17-2005, 03:50 PM
theyre not behind you at concerts because 1. theres no room. 2, bleachers going up the back people would be killed at the volume so the front people could hear them. next theyd haveto put more people to watch them
so some wise guy would flick a cigerette in it.....
4. bass doesnt travel well very far it fades..geezzzz
do you know nothing?
i could list 5 more but tired

supa_c
01-17-2005, 03:51 PM
Bass travels farther than treble
Why do you think you hear the bass before the treble :p:

audiolife
01-17-2005, 04:21 PM
theyre not behind you at concerts because 1. theres no room. 2, bleachers going up the back people would be killed at the volume so the front people could hear them. next theyd haveto put more people to watch them
so some wise guy would flick a cigerette in it.....
4. bass doesnt travel well very far it fades..geezzzz
do you know nothing?
i could list 5 more but tired
lol yuh i know alot more than you do. ever think about sound halls and such? the materials used the shape of it? and yes it would be VERY easy to put speakers behind people at a concert up high and away on the walls but its a bad idea since your ears are more aimed to listen from the front than the back. of course unless your ears are as backwards as your thought processes.

profilepower
01-17-2005, 04:24 PM
i live a mile from a hs on big home football games i hear the band...almost never hear drums....hear horns
well theres woods between me n the school....i hear talking n screaming sometimes.....

audiolife
01-17-2005, 04:31 PM
i live a mile from a hs on big home football games i hear the band...almost never hear drums....hear horns
think maybe they need a new drummer? i live less than that away from the feild here i can hear everything from the band drums horns screams to the announcers.

profilepower
01-17-2005, 04:33 PM
i just figured it out..in concerts they should put subs outside the building, since bass travels far the people inside would hear it great.like in your car you kids are putting your subs out of your car in the trunk....

Raven
01-17-2005, 04:53 PM
Kids? Wait, do you even have subs in your car?

Listen, in the back dash of my car are SoundStorm Labs Force 5X7s. They are NOT coaxials. They are genuine two way speakers with a fixed tweeter that's in no way physically attached to the midbass woofer and crossovers. I have them unplugged, even though they sound better than the front Sonys.

Logically, unplugging your back speakers must make you poor!

djdilliodon
01-17-2005, 04:56 PM
i have no rears i guess im poor to :( Even though i bet just 1 of my amps are worth more than his whole system :p:

audiolife
01-17-2005, 08:30 PM
i just figured it out..in concerts they should put subs outside the building, since bass travels far the people inside would hear it great.like in your car you kids are putting your subs out of your car in the trunk....
and you are a retard waiting to get into a wreck and wanting to eat your box in the process

DBfan187
01-17-2005, 08:40 PM
i hear talking n screaming sometimes.....

Please don't tell us anymore.:sick:

00GREENMACHINE
01-17-2005, 08:41 PM
i like my rear fill and will always keep it. Some times I like turning down the subwoofer control and it sounds better with rear fill

squeak9798
01-17-2005, 09:35 PM
i like my rear fill and will always keep it. Some times I like turning down the subwoofer control and it sounds better with rear fill

Then you need a better front stage

profilepower
01-18-2005, 10:00 AM
if you got sound in ya trunk from 6z9s.when ya park open the trunk n its par-te time!

3.5Max6spd
01-18-2005, 10:07 AM
Poster needs to realize if he/she likes rearfill -stop worrying about others think....it should come down to what one likes afterall....

00GREENMACHINE
01-18-2005, 05:26 PM
Then you need a better front stage


are you saying that mids and tweeters up front sound better then mids/tweeters/ and rear 6x9's? IMO the more the better. How could it not sound better? Explain that to me since you have more knowledge or maybe thats your opinion.

ANeonRider
01-18-2005, 05:36 PM
Please read this:
http://www.elitecaraudio.com/article.php?sid=21

audiolife
01-18-2005, 07:02 PM
are you saying that mids and tweeters up front sound better then mids/tweeters/ and rear 6x9's? IMO the more the better. How could it not sound better? Explain that to me since you have more knowledge or maybe thats your opinion.
people need to know how soundwaves work, yes sometimes rearfill is ok but only after the front stage is done right. soundwaves going all over the place ****. it ruins the sound and i guarantee the detail to your music suffers ALOT. in more simple terms i had a friend that had 12 15's in a blazer with 6 amps. it made a v in the back. everything was wired in phase (physically was off 45-120 degrees or more) he hit 139. building a flat wall running 6 of those same speakers and 3 of the same amps he ended up doing over 153 db. SAMETHING happens with all soundwaves BASS is more noticable because of its wave size. soundwaves working together is far better than them fighting ,thats why people use kickpanels well one of the reasons. they try to set them up so cancelation happens past the listeners and kicks also even the distance between right and left. thats why IF you add rear fill the fronts must be set up right. about half the sound q cars you see with rear fill turn them off or so far down its not even noticable its more of a gimmick like "best rca cables". door locations pretty well stink too. they are very side biased and cancel eachother out in the MIDDLE of the car. ever listen to music in your car that had back ground lyrics you never noticed before until you listened to it on headphones? if you havent its because you havent tried. clearer music sounds better and is precieved louder than what it is. only time i ever suggest it (rearfill) is if someone wants basics like factory locations and so forth maybe a sub. when people spend literially thousands and thousands of dollars on this stuff and do it the "basic" way you are literially missing 2/3's of the music all you are getting is more volume and muddy sound. if you want to discredit what i say please use a form of refference other than" in my car it sounds better" use a refference home set up if nothing else. you dont even have to own it you can go to even best buy and try it out on a pair of jbl towers.

squeak9798
01-18-2005, 07:19 PM
are you saying that mids and tweeters up front sound better then mids/tweeters/ and rear 6x9's?

Yes. That and that with an adequate front stage rear fill is not needed.


IMO the more the better. How could it not sound better? Explain that to me since you have more knowledge or maybe thats your opinion.

Already taken care of by neon and audiolife.......but, no, "the more the better" doesn't hold true. It's not "better" to have the sound coming from behind you (stand with your back to the stage at a concert?), it's not "better" to have the additional cancellation and sounds coming from more places than necessary (single point source = :thumbupw: ), etc etc. IIRC it's all pretty much covered in the article neon linked and the post by audiolife.

It's not just my opinion. Go to live concerts, orchestra's, etc.....all the sound comes from INFRONT of you. Go look up the SQ rules for IASCA/USACI and see what they say about soundstaging and imaging (i.e. they deduct points if the sound appears to be coming from behind you; even subbass).

Someone can prefer the sound of something, but that doesn't make it accurate as to sound reproduction.

audiolife
01-18-2005, 07:33 PM
Yes. That and that with an adequate front stage rear fill is not needed.



Already taken care of by neon and audiolife.......but, no, "the more the better" doesn't hold true. It's not "better" to have the sound coming from behind you (stand with your back to the stage at a concert?), it's not "better" to have the additional cancellation and sounds coming from more places than necessary (single point source = :thumbupw: ), etc etc. IIRC it's all pretty much covered in the article neon linked and the post by audiolife.

It's not just my opinion. Go to live concerts, orchestra's, etc.....all the sound comes from INFRONT of you. Go look up the SQ rules for IASCA/USACI and see what they say about soundstaging and imaging (i.e. they deduct points if the sound appears to be coming from behind you; even subbass).

Someone can prefer the sound of something, but that doesn't make it accurate as for sound reproduction.
with normal rearfill you cant distigish between left or right (which means if the judge desides to he doesnt have to go through the sound process judging) basically on half of your scores would be 0.

00GREENMACHINE
01-18-2005, 09:40 PM
sorry, I am not a freaking audio geek by no means. I dont read up on this stuff like 2/3rd's of the people in these fourms do, because its useless to me. Why go through all that stress, money, time, and worriing if you are not on audio team and in regular judged events???? Is it to say my car audio is louder and better than yours? Then you have people posting on here in the 100's stating " what do I have to do to be louder than my friend x" Most of these people will never have the time, money and drive to do all that stuff.

I doubt I would be able to tell a hearable difference inbetween my way and your way once a subwoofer is installed. Maybe just my hearing is gone from listening to it too loud the past 10 years???

audiolife
01-18-2005, 10:12 PM
sorry, I am not a freaking audio geek by no means. I dont read up on this stuff like 2/3rd's of the people in these fourms do, because its useless to me. Why go through all that stress, money, time, and worriing if you are not on audio team and in regular judged events???? Is it to say my car audio is louder and better than yours? Then you have people posting on here in the 100's stating " what do I have to do to be louder than my friend x" Most of these people will never have the time, money and drive to do all that stuff.

I doubt I would be able to tell a hearable difference inbetween my way and your way once a subwoofer is installed. Maybe just my hearing is gone from listening to it too loud the past 10 years???
1 learning is free
2 its always good to learn to save money on things not needed
3 if you couldnt tell id wonder why you have a car stereo anyways its a huge difference, noone that ever sat in my systems ever said "oh mine does that" mostly this was the response "how in the hell did you make it so clear and in front of you?" i had at least 200 people ask me that

MikeS
01-18-2005, 10:21 PM
I doubt I would be able to tell a hearable difference inbetween my way and your way once a subwoofer is installed. Maybe just my hearing is gone from listening to it too loud the past 10 years???

This is possible. Hearing loss begins in the high end and that is where we percieve most of what we're talking about. Phase cancelation is a real issue and if you don't notice it, great, enjoy your stereo, but a phase correct system will reproduce the source material more accurately. By this I mean that your car will sound more like the original tracks did in the recording studio.

For those of you who'd like easily verifiable proof of this phenomenon do this: Take two speakers playing the same signal (test wave would be most dramatic, but anything will be pretty obvious), flip one speaker out of phase(switch + and - of one speaker), now put the speakers face to face. Notice the huge amount of signal that goes away. If the playback is mono you should experience almost complete cancellation if the speakers are a couple inches apart. This is the effect of phase cancellation at an extreme level. This happens in more subtle ways as waves bounce off of surfaces and run into each other and does effect the sound of any sound reproducing system. Adding an identical source 4-6 feet away introduces a pretty severe phase shift over time/distance and when the waves hit each other, they'll cancel.

If you don't hear it and don't care then good for you(no sarcasm intended). Enjoy your stereo. But for people looking for a way to increase the fidelity of thier system in regards of accuracy (or SPL, if thats your thing) then this is certainly something to explore.

Mike

squeak9798
01-18-2005, 10:27 PM
Why go through all that stress, money, time, and worriing if you are not on audio team and in regular judged events???? Is it to say my car audio is louder and better than yours?

Because I love music, and I want it to sound as clear, clean and accurate as possible to increase the listening experience and allow myself to fully enjoy the music. If you build a stereo in your daily driver with the intention of impressing someone else, then you built your stereo for the wrong reasons.



I doubt I would be able to tell a hearable difference inbetween my way and your way once a subwoofer is installed. Maybe just my hearing is gone from listening to it too loud the past 10 years???

Well, unless you have your subbass boosted WAY above the rest of the music, you'll hear a difference. But, to each their own.

profilepower
01-19-2005, 04:00 AM
your rear speakers is just important as the front because most every1 i know puts more power to the rear.Sometimes twice as much.what these kids dont understand is that your rear speakers are at the same level as your ears. so you do hear them...
also these kids believe you cant hear things behind you....except bass way in your truck..laughs
but not bass if its on your back seat.....lol
look im saying i read some1 saying you cant hear rear speakers.it might not of been you. do you think i post all my posts just to you?laughs and i got all my speakers powered the same.....
i like having my music all round me. i think they call it surround sound...ever hear of it? duhhhhh

BASS OUTLAW
01-19-2005, 04:52 AM
my rear fill are two tweeters, front stage stock 4" high mids....
MID BASS IS NEEDED... thinkin of 2 6x9's.... am poor...

squeak9798
01-19-2005, 08:34 AM
your rear speakers is just important as the front because most every1 i know puts more power to the rear.Sometimes twice as much.what these kids dont understand is that your rear speakers are at the same level as your ears. so you do hear them...

Yes. But you don't want to hear them. If someone is putting more power to their rears than their fronts, then they simply don't understand a thing about car audio. The frontstage is infinitely more important than the rears, and you should not be able to hear any music coming from behind you.



also these kids believe you cant hear things behind you....except bass way in your truck..laughs


No *******, we said you shouldn't hear music coming from behind you; not that you can't hear it (i.e. all the sound should come from infront of you).

audiolife
01-19-2005, 09:18 AM
your rear speakers is just important as the front because most every1 i know puts more power to the rear.Sometimes twice as much.what these kids dont understand is that your rear speakers are at the same level as your ears. so you do hear them...
also these kids believe you cant hear things behind you....except bass way in your truck..laughs
but not bass if its on your back seat.....lol
look im saying i read some1 saying you cant hear rear speakers.it might not of been you. do you think i post all my posts just to you?laughs and i got all my speakers powered the same.....
i like having my music all round me. i think they call it surround sound...ever hear of it? duhhhhh
dood u are a troll, u gotta be a regular here under a different name acting stupid

DFW40
01-19-2005, 09:20 AM
rumor has it that Profilepower and beezlebub are just two of Squeaks many personalities.

squeak9798
01-19-2005, 09:39 AM
i think they call it surround sound...ever hear of it? duhhhhh


Hey moron, you can't have surround sound when you only have two signals; left and right. Ever hear of stereo sound? :rolleyes:

squeak9798
01-19-2005, 09:40 AM
rumor has it that Profilepower and beezlebub are just two of Squeaks many personalities.

That's not even funny :mad:



LOL....OK, I'll give it to you; that was a little funny. But SO not true.

profilepower
01-19-2005, 09:43 AM
laughs ya ride dont got no surroundsound........
my ride do....surround means you surronded by speckers enstiennn....lol
look brother i thinks you confuzzed..you talking bout stereo or mono sound..put down ya pipe be4 you start giving advice...
see down in the hood we dont do things halfway like yall...i guess ya just keep ya front tires in good shape..lol thats were 70% of the wieght is..right

squeak9798
01-19-2005, 09:45 AM
Yeah, right :rolleyes:

squeak9798
01-19-2005, 09:52 AM
laughs ya ride dont got no surroundsound........
my ride do....surround means you surronded by speckers enstiennn....lol
look brother i thinks you confuzzed..you talking bout stereo or mono sound..put down ya pipe be4 you start giving advice...
see down in the hood we dont do things halfway like yall...i guess ya just keep ya front tires in good shape..lol thats were 70% of the wieght is..right


:hilariou:

Raven
01-19-2005, 04:16 PM
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/surround-sound.htm

Learning is free for now. If it could be measured, it would be taxed all to hell. So learn all you can while you don't have to pay for it.

EDIT: Actually, when a vehicle travelling forwards stops, up to 80% of the stopping force comes from the front. So if you didn't have the money for a set of 4 tires or you enjoy driving around backwards more than forwards, you'd logically replace the front. In fact, I did this before winter!

ANeonRider
01-19-2005, 04:22 PM
Common sense isn't so common.

Raven
01-19-2005, 04:42 PM
Common sense is common and plentiful. It's also ignored.

Damaso87
01-19-2005, 06:07 PM
bass is also nondirectional...(or so ive read)

ANeonRider
01-19-2005, 06:10 PM
bass is also nondirectional...(or so ive read)

Bass (below ~80Hz) is non-directional. 80Hz - 20k is directional.

Raven
01-19-2005, 06:30 PM
That explains the crossover point.

Vestax
01-19-2005, 07:32 PM
Oh boy....

Inevitable to find idiots on a 6+ page about rearfill.

Question. When you go see a live band play, are they in front of you, in back of you or underneath you?

I don't think anybody here who's argue for rearfill has been to one IASCA, USACi SQ competition and understands the basics of imaging in a vehicle. 99% of these competition vehicles do not have rearfill in it.

Why bother squeak?

squeak9798
01-19-2005, 07:48 PM
Why bother squeak?

Mostly to help those who are reading the thread but not posting :) I don't debate with someone (most of the time) to try to change their mind, I do it so those who are newer and reading the thread don't buy into the misconceptions spewed.

Vestax
01-19-2005, 07:56 PM
Mostly to help those who are reading the thread but not posting :) I don't debate with someone (most of the time) to try to change their mind, I do it so those who are newer and reading the thread don't buy into the misconceptions spewed.

Coo coo, then I'm all for that intention to put away those misconceptions.

BTW, I don't think I would take anybody who runs profile amps too seriously. Unless Brax bought the company out and decided to revamp their amps :thumbsup:

squeak9798
01-19-2005, 07:57 PM
BTW, I don't think I would take anybody who runs profile amps too seriously. Unless Brax bought the company out and decided to revamp their amps :thumbsup:


LMAO...........

nosaj070
01-20-2005, 01:44 AM
Well I don't feel like going through all 7 pages of this, but I got rid of rear fill as soon as I bought my first set of components. All my friends *****ed, I said f'em I think it sounds better. I finally broke down in december due to constant *****ing and bought a set, threw a cheap old jensen amp on them, and have no reason to ever go again without rear fill. I am not an SQ competitor, and i cannot even hear hte speakers at the level they are on. In that back seat it fills in the vocals and certain frequencies that don't make it to the back seat as well. I stick by my rear fill, and being subjective, no one can tell me in my situation it *****.

audiolife
01-20-2005, 02:37 AM
Well I don't feel like going through all 7 pages of this, but I got rid of rear fill as soon as I bought my first set of components. All my friends *****ed, I said f'em I think it sounds better. I finally broke down in december due to constant *****ing and bought a set, threw a cheap old jensen amp on them, and have no reason to ever go again without rear fill. I am not an SQ competitor, and i cannot even hear hte speakers at the level they are on. In that back seat it fills in the vocals and certain frequencies that don't make it to the back seat as well. I stick by my rear fill, and being subjective, no one can tell me in my situation it *****.
-i cannot even hear hte speakers at the level they are on-

unless you have a chopped topped car or the front 2 passengers are 7' 400 lbs each there is more open space between front and back seats than closed. if your front stage is correct in locations and phases the only place in the car that might fizzle is if your head were down where your feet would normally be in the back. propper front stage location (making kicks or pods) is actually less expensive than adding more amps and speakers with better results. you say your not an sq competitor yet weither you are or not you are both trying to do the samething...get the best sound possible. now if your set up is fine by you its fine by me -no dis intended- but i know the way i am talking about really works. sure i "did it" with $1500 tweeters but i also did it with a $115 set of diamond audio m3 coaxes. people still asked how i did it. its not that hard im not a rocket scientist nor am i special nor do i consider myself special. if you dont want to spend the time to do it yourself (learn it , install it) nor want to pay to get it installed then for the simplistic nature of getting it done rear fill is fine. for people who are looking for better sound its generally a good thought to know the best way and deciffer from there. too many times people look at the bling bling of a comp system instead of looking at its basic structure. in its basic form it isnt anymore expensive than the normal deck and 4 speakers amped with an amped sub. to say its all subjective anyway would tend to lead people to believe stock locations of speakers with rear fill would lend to more sound off people winning with that set up when in fact that way was improved more than 15 yrs ago.

nosaj070
01-20-2005, 02:42 AM
-i cannot even hear hte speakers at the level they are on-

unless you have a chopped topped car or the front 2 passengers are 7' 400 lbs each there is more open space between front and back seats than closed. if your front stage is correct in locations and phases the only place in the car that might fizzle is if your head were down where your feet would normally be in the back. propper front stage location (making kicks or pods) is actually less expensive than adding more amps and speakers with better results. you say your not an sq competitor yet weither you are or not you are both trying to do the samething...get the best sound possible. now if your set up is fine by you its fine by me -no dis intended- but i know the way i am talking about really works. sure i "did it" with $1500 tweeters but i also did it with a $115 set of diamond audio m3 coaxes. people still asked how i did it. its not that hard im not a rocket scientist nor am i special nor do i consider myself special. if you dont want to spend the time to do it yourself (learn it , install it) nor want to pay to get it installed then for the simplistic nature of getting it done rear fill is fine. for people who are looking for better sound its generally a good thought to know the best way and deciffer from there. too many times people look at the bling bling of a comp system instead of looking at its basic structure. in its basic form it isnt anymore expensive than the normal deck and 4 speakers amped with an amped sub. to say its all subjective anyway would tend to lead people to believe stock locations of speakers with rear fill would lend to more sound off people winning with that set up when in fact that way was improved more than 15 yrs ago.

I am in no way disagreeing with you, You are right, and I've known that ever since i got into this stuff. I simply chose to sacrafice some amount of quality in order to one, make my dumb friends happy, two save space (no kicks). Being a college student, and being quite far from home makes it very difficult to find the time to work on my system, I belive my priorities are straight, and being in the order they are, sadly enough SQ comes behind everyday function and practicality :(
Wow its nice to have a calm educated discussion for once :peace:

audiolife
01-20-2005, 02:49 AM
eh only if you were profilepower or a real clown lmao. "you college kids dont know anything " lol (that's something he would say) and judging from how he types and what he says i think he dropped out of high school after his fourth year of seventh grade.

ighettoboyi
01-20-2005, 02:08 PM
Coo coo, then I'm all for that intention to put away those misconceptions.

BTW, I don't think I would take anybody who runs profile amps too seriously. Unless Brax bought the company out and decided to revamp their amps :thumbsup:

im no expert but im no jl_w6 or profilepower :clap:

Raven
01-20-2005, 03:49 PM
I would take people who run Profile amps as people who've done some homework and don't have money. I'd be one of them.

profilepower
01-21-2005, 01:39 PM
look.. rear fills are awsome. if you aint got the money . just say so.
you cant sit in my car with the highs turned up!
go jvc!!! speakers...

Johnny Drama
01-21-2005, 01:44 PM
look.. rear fills are awsome. if you aint got the money . just say so.
you cant sit in my car with the highs turned up!
go jvc!!! speakers...


:rolleyes:




99 posts later did his question ever get answered?

Raven
01-21-2005, 01:51 PM
I don't think so.

firearm
01-23-2005, 10:13 PM
Then you need a better front stage

I have an 04 Ford Expedition

In my case, door locations are the only option front and rear (Ford 5" x 7"). Can anything be done to create a front stage with this setup? Kicks are out or the question.

I am thinking about using Boston Pro 6.5's in the front door powered by a quality 2 channel amp of sufficient power where one channel would run the mids while the other ran a subwoofer. In the rear doors I would possibly use a pair of quality coaxes run off of an Alpine CDA-9835 for when passengers accompany me.

Would this be an acceptable compromise as the internal amplifier in the HU can be turned on and off at will?

Would this setup cause any problems or loss of any functionality of the HU?

Any ideas appreciated............................

Thanks

audiolife
01-23-2005, 10:44 PM
the best you can do imho is a set of cdt or focal speakers as they tend to sound better off axis whick factory locations are just that.

squeak9798
01-23-2005, 11:11 PM
powered by a quality 2 channel amp of sufficient power where one channel would run the mids while the other ran a subwoofer

I don't know if that was a typo or not.....but you can not use a single channel to run both mids because the sound is stereo; you need one channel for the left and one channel for the right.

Raven
01-23-2005, 11:51 PM
I'm thinking more that he split the stereo RCA, so one amp powered the midrange and sub on the left side, and one powered the midrange and sub on the right side. It's impractical, but feasable.

firearm
01-24-2005, 07:46 AM
I don't know if that was a typo or not.....but you can not use a single channel to run both mids because the sound is stereo; you need one channel for the left and one channel for the right.


I was hoping to run everything off of one amp (front doors and sub). :( Looks like I'll need another amp.

Does running the rear fill off of the head unit have any merit?

Thanks Again

squeak9798
01-24-2005, 08:25 AM
I was hoping to run everything off of one amp (front doors and sub). :( Looks like I'll need another amp.

Does running the rear fill off of the head unit have any merit?

Thanks Again


You can run it off one amp.....just not a two channel amp ;)

If you want to run a four channel amp, you can run the front two channels to the comp set, and bridge the rear channels to a sub, then run the rears off of the headunit.

firearm
01-24-2005, 09:25 AM
You can run it off one amp.....just not a two channel amp ;)

If you want to run a four channel amp, you can run the front two channels to the comp set, and bridge the rear channels to a sub, then run the rears off of the headunit.

Thanks Squeak,

Are the Boston comps worth the expense in you opinion for the front door location? If so, can you suggest a 4 channel amp that would work? According to your previous posts, considerable power is desired for these comps, I wouldn't want to underpower them.

Budget for amp is 300- 400 dollars

Thanks

squeak9798
01-24-2005, 09:32 AM
Thanks Squeak,

Are the Boston comps worth the expense in you opinion for the front door location? If so, can you suggest a 4 channel amp that would work? According to your previous posts, considerable power is desired for these comps, I wouldn't want to underpower them.



I had my Boston's in the front lower doors.....other than the tweet being a little harsh at extremely high volumes, I thought they performed pretty well there. I really liked them atleast.

IMO you really need about 200w per side for them to shine. They'll play pretty decent with less power....but they'll really come alive the more you feed them. But, I dunno....try to get out and listen to a few sets of comps yourself. See what you like. Different strokes for different folks....we may have completely different listening preferences...who knows :D

profilepower
01-24-2005, 09:34 AM
look the main reasons to have or not to have rear speakers are...no money or...you need to hear your subs way in ya trunk....
cause you cant hear them.....my 1 sub on my back seat i hear fine.....

AznRevlAzn
01-24-2005, 10:02 AM
look the main reasons to have or not to have rear speakers are...no money or...you need to hear your subs way in ya trunk....
cause you cant hear them.....my 1 sub on my back seat i hear fine.....

go shove a volfenhag up your ***

UndercoverPunk
01-24-2005, 10:03 AM
look the main reasons to have or not to have rear speakers are...no money or...you need to hear your subs way in ya trunk....
cause you cant hear them.....my 1 sub on my back seat i hear fine.....

You are ignorant. Do a decent install, get that **** off the seat. I took out my 6X9's because they hindered the sound from the front speakers. Best decision I've made so far.


Different strokes for different folks

I sincerley hope I'm not rubbing off on you Squeak.:slap:

profilepower
01-24-2005, 11:50 AM
hAHAHahahAHA...you dont know theres a balance on your receiver......uuh look guys who cant hear his rear speakers..use ya eq,balance. it helps.lol
get some1 to help you....guy.ok
youll be ok.....

squeak9798
01-24-2005, 11:53 AM
I sincerley hope I'm not rubbing off on you Squeak.:slap:

Was that a pun??

:D

UndercoverPunk
01-24-2005, 01:42 PM
hAHAHahahAHA...you dont know theres a balance on your receiver......uuh look guys who cant hear his rear speakers..use ya eq,balance. it helps.lol
get some1 to help you....guy.ok
youll be ok.....
You're an idiot. Go eat some fried:spam:, ignorance is bliss:bigwave:. Kill yourself :woot:. I feel better. :rolleyes:


Was that a pun??

:D

No, not on purpose atleast.

Raven
01-24-2005, 03:03 PM
look the main reasons to have or not to have rear speakers are...no money or...you need to hear your subs way in ya trunk....
cause you cant hear them.....my 1 sub on my back seat i hear fine.....
Money? For the money my Rainbow Soundlines are worth, I could buy almost 7 pairs of your JVC subs, shipped. Tell me how it makes me poor not having rear fill.
ProfilePower + Ignore user = :noevil: :thumbupw:

profilepower
01-24-2005, 09:28 PM
lAuGhs..jvc subs start at $150......each
7pair......$2100!
i dont own jvc subs...lol

squeak9798
01-24-2005, 09:41 PM
Wow....this ignore user thing is pretty cool :thumbupw: I know his message is there, but I don't see it :noevil:

ANeonRider
01-24-2005, 10:36 PM
Wow....this ignore user thing is pretty cool :thumbupw: I know his message is there, but I don't see it :noevil:

Beautiful isn't it! Have been ignoring that ignorant user for almost a week now!

Raven
01-24-2005, 10:53 PM
My mistake, not JVC subs, JVC bronzies. Those neat little bronze speakers you ***** any chance you get. They run $45 a pair, shipped from cardomain. The Rainbow Soundlines in my kitchen getting acquainted with their new environment are roughly $310 shipped from speedsound.com. 310 / 45 = 6.89. Hence, at the price the Soundlines are worth, I could have 6.89 pair of JVC bronzies. Now, given with 10 watts RMS apiece (Rainbow = 60-80rms, divided by 7...), they would sound pretty good in a well made wall, but it's just not practical. I'll stick with what I have.

Yeah, Rainbow Reference comps are roughly $8000. That's about 53 pair of JVC subs, or 178 pair of Bronzies. Now, that's a little much. At that rate, I'd take the Bronzies and sell them for profit. =p