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MikeS
01-11-2005, 07:32 PM
Hey guys,

I was kicking around listening to some comps today at various stores and noticed that a lot of the sets I listened to seemed to have pretty mellow output from the tweeters. If I covered them with my hand I didn't lose a whole lot of sound. Is this normal?

I put some cheap-o tweeters in my car to make up for the very low output of my DEI tweets and it is night and day without them. How much of your overall signal do you guys feel is/should be coming out of your tweeters? If you cover them in your cars do you notice a HUGE drop in high end, or is it pretty subtle?

As you can probably tell, I'm a little confused now. I was gonna replace my comps with something new because my tweeters put out so little high end, but if the ones I replace them with don't put out much more then it seems like I'd be wasting time and money....

Thanks!

Mike

desi_daru
01-11-2005, 08:21 PM
u should b able to change the level in the x-over
mine are 0 -3 n -6 db i beleive, i think mines cranked at 0
i blew my tweeters b4 n i missed my tweeters soooooooo much i felt like cryin, so yes if i cover them wif my hands i can tell very much so the difference

squeak9798
01-11-2005, 08:33 PM
Well, in most comp sets the mids are the speakers that play the frequencies in which most of the musical content is located.

MikeS
01-11-2005, 08:46 PM
Well, in most comp sets the mids are the speakers that play the frequencies in which most of the musical content is located.


The mid driver certainly contains the majority of the fundamental musical content, but the tweeter is essential for establishing clarity and stereo image. The upper frequencies contribute largely to what makes a guitar sounds like a guitar, a sax like a sax, and a voice sound unique. These, among other reasons, are a huge part of why seperating the tweeter is so desirable in the first place. I'm sure you know all that, so I guess I'm just saying that I want to be able to hear the high end in my system if I'm going to the trouble and expense of dealing with seperates.

In some of the speakers I was listenig too I was getting more high frequency content out of the coaxs than the comp systems, and this seems contrary to what I'd expect...

desi_daru
01-11-2005, 08:48 PM
are all the settings correct on ur deck, xover, amp?

MikeS
01-11-2005, 09:23 PM
Yeah, everything is set up fine. The x-over is passive with no settings for tweeter output or anything like that. I attached Optimus tweeters in the tweeter outs of the x-over and it has **** loads of level. I'm currently running them off the HU, but I did test them with an amp to see if power was the issue. I threw 150 or so watts RMS at them and they were still practially inaudible with my ear an inch or two from the tweet.

I'm an audio engineer (and musician) by profession and have worked in QA for pro recording products, so my troubleshooting skills are pretty strong. I've tried different power sources, different crossovers, different tweeters, etc. and everything points to the DEI tweeter. They both do it(or don't do it), which is the weird part. They get signal, but they put out almost nothing even when cranked.

These are supposed to be pretty nice, which is why I bought them in the first place, but they never worked. At the time I had them "professionally" installed but have since torn everything apart trying to figure this out. I'd love to get them working, but had given up on them as a bum pair. I'm still planning on just getting a new set of comps, but I was shocked today to hear not a whole lot coming out of some of the comps I auditioned...

I'm TOTALLY open to suggestions, ideas, etc...

Thanks,

Mike

packerfan
01-11-2005, 10:57 PM
Get some 1" metal dome tweets, those will scream in your ears. Also, if you have your tweets in the doors or kick that will lower the sound stage and also make it seem like the their not that loud. Try mounting in the A piller or getting some good metal dome tweets.

packerfan
01-11-2005, 11:01 PM
Also, what you hear in a shop wall is TOTALLY different then what they will sound like in the car. Keep that in mind...

MikeS
01-11-2005, 11:07 PM
Also, what you hear in a shop wall is TOTALLY different then what they will sound like in the car. Keep that in mind...

REALLLLY good point. Thanks for that.

I don't necessarily want piercing, ridiculous highs(I'v got that with thes Optimus ones), I want nice, detailed and smooth highs. Hmm...I'll do some more listening and see if I can find something I'd like better.

Thanks guys.

Mike

squeak9798
01-11-2005, 11:09 PM
You sound like a prime candidate for horns :)

getstoked05
01-11-2005, 11:16 PM
i tried horns-it's very easy to over power them! they sound great once you get them tuned right. i tend to hit the horn every time i got in the car. the only thing i didnt like about the horns is the sound came from the front not left to right

MikeS
01-12-2005, 01:55 AM
I've noticed the horn talk on these boards. I just can't picture it. I guess I've been around too many PA cabs so I just picture this huge horn sticking out of my dash. Do they sound good? Most PA cabs are kinda crappy sounding from an audiophile perspective, and the horn is part of it. The dispersion is needed to cover a big room, but the imaging goes out the window and the highs tend to be pretty nasty.

I checked out a few more comps tonight. I heard the lower end RF ones and they sounded WAY better than the Kenwoods and Pioneers next to them. I heard some Infinities and didn't really like them that much, but they were okay....do you guys like the new RF stuff? They were the **** back when I was more into car audio (mid 90s).

Thanks!

Mike

squeak9798
01-12-2005, 10:59 AM
I've noticed the horn talk on these boards. I just can't picture it. I guess I've been around too many PA cabs so I just picture this huge horn sticking out of my dash. Do they sound good? Most PA cabs are kinda crappy sounding from an audiophile perspective, and the horn is part of it. The dispersion is needed to cover a big room, but the imaging goes out the window and the highs tend to be pretty nasty.


Team Image Dynamics seems to have pretty good luck with them :)


http://usdaudio.com/tutorials/wg-tut1.php
http://usdaudio.com/sw/cars/

Horns can have horrible results when not tuned properly; just like any other speaker in the world. But, now that I've had horns, I'll never go back to tweeters; that's a promise. IMO the sound is much fuller and lively, much more dynamics and "up front" so to speak. So far, in my listening experiences, the only tweet/mid comp set I've heard that I've liked even remotely close to as much as my horns are the Boston Z6's.

MikeS
01-12-2005, 01:37 PM
Wow, that is pretty amazing. I'd love to hear one. Looks like an intrusive install to say the least! :D Maybe I should just get a power inverter and bolt some studio monitors on my dashboard!! :D

Mike

allsport513
01-12-2005, 02:51 PM
my freind put six tweeters in his car how usefull is that

Johnny Drama
01-12-2005, 03:05 PM
my freind put six tweeters in his car how usefull is that
As usefull as your post in this thread.




back on topic/ From what I've read from REQ and Squeek, horns sound like a solution to your problem, If I am understanding you correctly you want your highs louder then they currently are but not harsh. If horns arent your thing I suggest going with what Packerfan stated, try mounting your tweets high up on your soundstage. Or even have them fire tword your front window. I think both opitons would solve your problem.

Thats my .02 cents

MikeS
01-12-2005, 03:12 PM
It is a phase coherance nightmare, but I bet he can hear the cymbals!! :D

DFW40
01-14-2005, 04:36 PM
How are the horns mounted and where. Also where do you cross the average horn over. I saw the Id horns and they are expensive. I'd love to hear one though.

squeak9798
01-14-2005, 04:42 PM
How are the horns mounted and where.

Mounted using backstraps (plumber's straps) and/or some kind of metal stock (like 1/4" Aluminum bars, etc)


Also where do you cross the average horn over.

Anywhere from 500hz to 1200hz depending on horn body style, compression driver, xover slope, power levels, etc etc