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View Full Version : some questions on tweet horns



pwnt by pat
12-11-2004, 12:32 AM
I've done some searching across a couple of forums and feel a little unsatisfied with what I've found. Basicly, from what I've read, I have a general understanding of horns and just would like a little confirmation of what I know and a couple questions answered.

I've seen that horns require an eq, about 13band minimum, the more the merrier. Can a 13 band hu-eq be used for this sort of application or would another external eq be required?

I've also had a glance at a post or two saying cross-overs are needed, some 500, some 800, depening on the horn. Would passive cross-overs that come with comp sets be enough for this?

These just plug into passive eq's where the comps would go, right?

I got two options that I could potentially wire them up with. One, I could put them on 50w (but that's at 4 ohm so at 8 ohm it should be about half of that) each with a hpf set to whatever the crossover would be set to. Two, I can put them on the passive comp x-over and let it handle the frequencies but the horn would only get 25w and the mid-driver would only get 25w. I need them to keep up with a vented xxx-15 (or 12 if I can't find a decent price used) at factory spec, 27-28hz.

I've seen install pictures but they just show the body. Can anyone take some pictures of how they actually MOUNTED the horn in their car? How to you get it to stay, basicly?

Finally, I have read that horns are failry easy to set up, image beautifully, and set the stage almost by themselves. Is there anything else that should be known about them?

squeak9798
12-11-2004, 03:14 PM
I've seen that horns require an eq, about 13band minimum, the more the merrier. Can a 13 band hu-eq be used for this sort of application or would another external eq be required?

Well, the only real answer here is "It depends". The #1 thing about an EQ is that it needs to be able to adjust the frequencies that need adjusted in your particular setup. Could 13 bands be enough? Sure. But, it could also be relatively ineffective if it doesn't allow you to adjust the frequencies in the problem area of your particular setup. That's one great thing about parametric EQ's...you can adjust the center frequency. Problem with parametrics is that they usually don't have very many bands and may not hit all the problem areas. That's why most people go for high-band graphic's.....they have a ton of bands that can be adjusted and you can pretty much contour any area of the music that you need adjusted. However, they have fixed bands.....so, for example, if you are having a problem at 3khz but your EQ only has 2khz and 4khz bands on it, you need to adjust those in hopes of curing the problem @ 3khz. So, is there a perfect solution? No. It's really one of those "install it all and see if you need more" situations.


I've also had a glance at a post or two saying cross-overs are needed, some 500, some 800, depening on the horn. Would passive cross-overs that come with comp sets be enough for this?

As far as I know, the only horns that come with passives are the full horn comp sets (horns, mids & xovers). However, I believe Image Dynamics no longer offer them in full comp sets since they used to come with the IDQ mids, which are no longer in production. And I don't believe USD offers full horn component sets either. But, I *think* both of them sell passive xovers for the horns. I dunno....alsmost everyone I know uses an active xover with their horns.


These just plug into passive eq's where the comps would go, right?

Don't quite understand that one? No such thing as a passive EQ.


I got two options that I could potentially wire them up with. One, I could put them on 50w (but that's at 4 ohm so at 8 ohm it should be about half of that) each with a hpf set to whatever the crossover would be set to. Two, I can put them on the passive comp x-over and let it handle the frequencies but the horn would only get 25w and the mid-driver would only get 25w. I need them to keep up with a vented xxx-15 (or 12 if I can't find a decent price used) at factory spec, 27-28hz.

25w is enough for the horns. 25w is definitely, definitely not enough for the midbass. With 25w on each horn, 100w-150w would be a good amount of power to put on the mids. A *general* rule of thumb for power when using horns is a 1:5:5 ratio. 1 being the horns, 5 being the mids and the last 5 being the sub. Basically, it means you want atleast 5 times the power on your mids as what you have on your horns. And you want 5 times the amount of power on your subs as what you have on your mids. But keep in mind, it's one of those "rules of thumb", but not the 11th commandment.


I've seen install pictures but they just show the body. Can anyone take some pictures of how they actually MOUNTED the horn in their car? How to you get it to stay, basicly?

http://sonicbliss.caraudioplanet.com/Horns/
http://usdaudio.com/tutorials/wg-tut1.php

They mount with backstraps (plumber's straps) or you can use something like 1/4" Aluminum stock that they sell at home depot and such.


Finally, I have read that horns are failry easy to set up, image beautifully, and set the stage almost by themselves. Is there anything else that should be known about them?

Tonally they sound awesome too! They just have a much more "lively" sound and sound so much "fuller" than tweeters. I love mine.....and they are horribly set up. I can't wait till I actually install them correctly!

audiolife
12-11-2004, 03:43 PM
if you are looking to get horns and you dont have the eq and crossovers just get an audioconrol eqx and have it set at around 850(depending on the horn) gives you the 24 db x over slope as well as enough bands to get them going good. only draw back are the modules for the eqx not a biggy (to me anyways)

pwnt by pat
12-11-2004, 09:59 PM
These just plug into passive eq's where the comps would go, right?


Don't quite understand that one? No such thing as a passive EQ.


My bad, ment crossovers....

Squeek, you are amazing. Okay, so I am totally contemplating getting horns, only I'm not sure if I'll have much room for my feet, the look like they cramp.

On the eq, would just installing them with a 13 work and then if I'm not pleased, buy a nice eq when I can afford them?

I'm looking at the Cd-e1v.2? (I think that's what they are). Is there any way before buying them that I can tell if they'll fit? I have maybe 12-14 inches depth but it slopes towards the pedals. I could cut into the dash if I had to, though. 97 cutlass supreme

I've seen the ID crossovers for the horns on some site but they were like 200 a piece, or pair - forget.

audioconrol eqx, I don't understand all of what you ment about this product - it's probably clear but I'm just tired.

audiolife
12-12-2004, 02:10 AM
ur fine worst case scenario are mini horns

squeak9798
12-12-2004, 02:24 PM
On the eq, would just installing them with a 13 work and then if I'm not pleased, buy a nice eq when I can afford them?

Yup. I am assuming your deck has a 13 band EQ built in, and that's why you keep asking?



I'm looking at the Cd-e1v.2? (I think that's what they are). Is there any way before buying them that I can tell if they'll fit? I have maybe 12-14 inches depth but it slopes towards the pedals. I could cut into the dash if I had to, though. 97 cutlass supreme

Well, you could measure out the dimensions under your dash. I believe the ID webpage has some dimensions on it. And like audiolife mentioned, you can go with mini-horns if needed.




audioconrol eqx, I don't understand all of what you ment about this product - it's probably clear but I'm just tired.

He was saying if you didn't have a lot of money to spend, you could go with the Audiocontrol EQX since it has a built in 2-way xover (you'd still need to highpass the mids on the lowend, though) and a dual 13-band EQ. Only problem with Audiocontrol xovers is that they don't use pots, they use resistor packs for the crossovers. Which means you basically need to already know what xover points you want, that way you can build the resistor pack (it'd be a pain in the *** to constantly try new xover points, because for each new xover point you'd have to build a new resistor pack and plug it in. Not the most user friendly product under the sun). That's why he said 800hz would be good....though I'm not sure if the CD-e1's can go that low, and I don't think mini-horns can go that low if you wanted to go with those.

pwnt by pat
12-12-2004, 03:24 PM
mkay, cool. Thanks for the help, mate.

audiolife
12-12-2004, 05:36 PM
its not that hard sure its not as easy as turning a dial but if my friend could switchem out in 5 min ... i helped make some too its just been 6-7 years lol. as far as xover point if you got cd-1e on a mini horn the xover point prolly would be 1.2k ish thats my guesstamation

pwnt by pat
12-12-2004, 09:18 PM
actually looking at "CD1E V.2 w/ 5.25" mids and the cs1.x xovers" in classifieds. It's kind of old so I'm not sure if they're still available. If they aren't, I'll probably just buy a comp set and then the horns to swap with the tweets when I find the cash, 200 ish new + cost of comps.

I really appreciate the help, this place does in fact rock. You can expect another thread like this when I buy them... heh

squeak9798
12-13-2004, 09:45 AM
If they aren't, I'll probably just buy a comp set and then the horns to swap with the tweets when I find the cash, 200 ish new + cost of comps.

Wait.....what? You do realize you can't put those horns on the passives of a "regular" comp set, correct?

icemayne696
12-13-2004, 10:03 AM
Is it really worth the trouble to go with horns over tweets? When paired with a good EQ, will you really get more performance?

squeak9798
12-13-2004, 10:23 AM
Is it really worth the trouble to go with horns over tweets? When paired with a good EQ, will you really get more performance?

Yes (IMO).

Advantages of horns:

1) No crossover points in the important area of the music.
2) Less point sources.
3) Controlled dispersion.
4) High efficiency.
5) Easier to get proper imaging/soundstage.
6) Quicker installation.

pwnt by pat
12-13-2004, 11:18 AM
Wait.....what? You do realize you can't put those horns on the passives of a "regular" comp set, correct?

Yeah, I ment buy a mid-decent comp set now, then when I get more money and everything set up, spend it on some nice horns and all of what's needed for them.

edit: ID sells whole mid/horn/24db slope crossover comp sets. I'm going to see what those run. It might be more economical to just get those. They should also be able to tell me if they'll fit my car without a struggle, hopefully.

diesel_kid
01-03-2006, 07:40 PM
I am looking at putting in some horns, if the right deal comes up. I was wondering for the installation can they be mounted vertically. Because to me that would be the easiest way to install them vertically on my door and just sort of blend it in with the door. Thanks.

pwnt by pat
01-04-2006, 09:06 AM
The only place to really mount horns is under your dash. They aren't designed like regular speakers and must be accomidated so.

squeak9798
01-04-2006, 09:21 AM
I am looking at putting in some horns, if the right deal comes up. I was wondering for the installation can they be mounted vertically. Because to me that would be the easiest way to install them vertically on my door and just sort of blend it in with the door. Thanks.

If I'm understanding you correctly;

NO

audiolife
01-04-2006, 11:10 AM
he can do a beyma horn type tweet in the door which is toally a different type of speaker

squeak9798
01-04-2006, 12:28 PM
Yeah...true.....

I guess when I think of "horns", I neglect those tweeter-horns.

audiolife
01-04-2006, 03:46 PM
horns are still tweeters lol (least the drivers are)

T3mpest
01-05-2006, 09:49 PM
yeah, horns aren't the same as a conventional speaker. You'd completely ruin their imagining ability, which is one of their biggest selling points. IMO, horns aren't really something most people should worry about. If your original goal was a simple door mount component set, tben just go ahead and do that. Horns fill a niche when it comes to audio.