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mr personality
09-16-2004, 10:57 PM
hello guys

i'm a new owner of a bmw suv and looking to modify the speakers & amps in the car (6.5"). can anybody recommend me some high end speakers in the market? still considering (currently) the jl audio xr653 csi 3 way system.

i'm not into loudness eg. hard rock/metallica stuff but more into the jazz & slow kinda music, just looking for a good crisp & clear sound. heard good comments on mb quart but i'd confirm with y'all audiophiles

your replies are appreciated. thanks

squeak9798
09-16-2004, 11:49 PM
What kind of budget do you have to work with?

mr personality
09-16-2004, 11:52 PM
prolly around high 200 - mid 400s since i'm getting 2 pairs of speakers for the suv

plus the amp alone costs 500+

squeak9798
09-17-2004, 12:48 AM
Either 1) don't get rear speakers, or 2) get some decently priced (read: $50) co-axials and either save the extra money or put it towards something more useful. You seem to be the sound quality kind of guy, and rear speakers will only detract from that. The only usefulness that rear speakers have is to help the rear seat passengers hear the music (and even then they may not be necessary depending on your front speakers).


Check out the DLS Iridium 6.2 or 6.3 component sets; very nice. Other brands to look into are Dynaudio, Focal, Morel, Rainbow, Arc Audio, Image Dynamics, Boston Acoustics (I've heard their Z6 components, really nice), **** it's getting late and that's all I can think of right now.

And you have an amp, or need an amp??

mr personality
09-17-2004, 10:39 AM
will it make the sound funny if i just install a 3 way speaker on the front and go with the factory on the rear? anyway i'll be driving by myself most of the time & dont have to care about passangers in the rear.

i'm going to get an amp too. prolly a 4 channel amp

Einzee
09-17-2004, 10:45 AM
What kind of budget do you have to work with?

:fyi: Uhh Hello? BMW SUV = $$$

mr personality
09-17-2004, 10:45 AM
ohh and one more question. if i go with your idea of just changing the front, is it better for the sound quality if i get an mb quart qsd 216 speaker (v expensive 2 way speaker) or a cheaper 3 way jl audio xr 653

mr personality
09-17-2004, 10:49 AM
bmw suv = :driving: = $$$$$ = :crying:

nosaj070
09-17-2004, 11:04 AM
ohh and one more question. if i go with your idea of just changing the front, is it better for the sound quality if i get an mb quart qsd 216 speaker (v expensive 2 way speaker) or a cheaper 3 way jl audio xr 653

IMO If you have the room for a 3 way speaker set, there is no beating it. Basically every set mentioned in this thread is very nice, and I'm sure you would be very happy with any of them. One of the biggest differences in speakers (besides the x-over and whatnot) is the tweeter. Different materials obviously produce a different sound. Metal tweets tend to be a bit harsher, so expect some amount of ear piercing on some sounds, but they also are in general much more detailed, and in all honesty I love the sound of an acoustic guitar on harsh tweets, it sounds so real.

On the other hand listening to a cd where s's are recorded and are very harsh, it is difficult to listen to, it is very annoying, and although it can be eq'd out, it is many times very difficult. This is where silk tweeters and other soft materials come into play. Although in some cases they do lack detail, in general i prefer the softer sound, only so at high volumes I don't feel like my ears are bleeding on certain sounds.

Now granted everything I said can be easily contradicted through the install. You can make harsh tweeters sound softer just by their placement. So in reality, thinka bout where you will place the speakers, and then if a metal tweeter is aimed directly at you, and relatively close, you may want to consider silk (this is my opinion). I know in escalades they actually have the tweets reflecing off the windshield, this would be a good case for metal tweets.

I Hope ive been of some help to you, and remember this is all my opinion, and what i've found from different experiences. Good luck.

mr personality
09-17-2004, 11:16 AM
thanks nosaj for the post. i appreciate it.

any opinion on just changing the front & keeping the rear factory ?

squeak9798
09-17-2004, 12:09 PM
Frankly, I'd go with a "better" 2-way system then a "not as good" 3-way system. Not saying that the JL you asked about is better or worse then the QSD's (as I've not used either personally), but being 3-way doesn't automatically make them "better" than a 2-way........it's actually more a personal preference than anything. Some people swear by 2-ways, some people swear by 3-ways; and they each have their advantages and disadvantages.

And the midrange will be a very, very important factor in components, more so than the tweeter IMO. The midrange frequencies is where most of the musical content is located and is where the "important" frequencies are located (vocals, guitars, etc). Buy a set with a good tweet but an "average" mid, and the results will be less than stellar. This is one of the advantages of a 3-way system. Each speaker has a more limited bandwidth to play which should allow each speaker to play their dedicated bandwidth a little better. And by having a dedicated midrange, which can typically play higher than a mid doubling as a midbass can, then you aren't splitting up the important frequencies between the mid and tweeter (as is what normally happens) which can give it a more "coherent" sound since they are all coming from a single speaker. But, tuning and installing a 3-way can be much harder because they take up more space (obviously, since there are 3 speakers) and phasing and level matching can be much harder because there are more drivers.

But again, install plays a major role in this. You can buy the best components in the world, but install them improperly and they'll sound like poop.



Oh, and if you are going to run the stock rears, run them off of your HU's power and fade mostly to the front so that the stock rears aren't playing very loud at all.......just a little "accent" for rear seat passangers (when you have them). Or leave it faded to the front all the time, except for when you have rear seat passengers.

mr personality
09-17-2004, 01:12 PM
squeak, another one for you. i know i can put whatever & whichever i want, but how would it sound like if i were to put a 3 way for the front and a 2 way for the rear? weird combination?

and would the mentioned mb quart/jl audio speaker on the front alone enough to withstand a 4 channel amp?

squeak9798
09-17-2004, 03:19 PM
squeak, another one for you. i know i can put whatever & whichever i want, but how would it sound like if i were to put a 3 way for the front and a 2 way for the rear? weird combination?

Weird; No. Unnecessary; Yes. As I stated earlier, with a good comp set up front, those rears are not going to be needed, other than for rear seat passengers or if you think you may upgrade to a 5.1 surround sound system at some point in time. In either of those cases, generally a cheaper co-axial will do just fine......no point in spending $$ where $$ is not needed.


and would the mentioned mb quart/jl audio speaker on the front alone enough to withstand a 4 channel amp?

Sorry, don't quite understand the question here?? Are you talking about power wise will they handle it, or are you asking if they will get loud enough for you??

mr personality
09-17-2004, 03:44 PM
yeap power-wise, can they handle it? (since the factory speaker cannot handle it)

or will it strain the front speakers and as a result, they will break down faster

i'm not really into loudness, prefer quality of sound to loudness.

squeak9798
09-17-2004, 03:49 PM
Depends; You need to find an amp that will not over power your fronts.......so it's really dependent upon the speakers you choose, the amp you have, and the install.


But components are meant to be used with an amp, so you do definitely want to put an amp on them.

mr personality
09-17-2004, 07:34 PM
and so the amp which i got is a 4 channel 450 W power amplifier. how do you think it is, will it overpower the front

and brandwise, how would you rate these in terms of the quality for mellow music: boston acoustics, jl audio, mb quart & diamond. let's just say that we are comparing the diff speakers at the same class (2 way vs 2 way, the highest class vs the highest class)

squeak9798
09-17-2004, 08:17 PM
What exact amp do you have??



As far as the speakers; It really comes down to personal preference. It would be best if you could listen to them all yourself and decide. I haven't heard the high-end of MB Quart, JL or Diamond personally, but I have heard the Boston Z6 components and owned the Boston Pro components previous.......both were excellent in my opinion, and the Z6 were just amazing (I heard them with the Bose demo disc, which was a very musical, jazz type of music.)

mr personality
09-17-2004, 08:34 PM
it's an audison lrx 4 channel 450W

squeak9798
09-17-2004, 10:01 PM
Nice amp! Man, you are going high end aren't you ;)

Anyways, looking at Audison's website it appears as though you must have the LRx 4.300, which is 65w x 4 @ 4ohm.......which just about any component set should handle fine. You could probably even bridge that amp to the front components and be fine as long as you set the gains very conservatively. But, just for reference, I had a 400w RMS x 2 @ 4ohm amp on my Boston Acoustics Pro6.5 comp set and they handled it with ease :D Now, mind you, not every component set can handle that kinda power............

mr personality
09-17-2004, 10:17 PM
yup that's the amp.

been saving up for some time. got the amps already but not the speakers, which is why i still need all the inputs i can get from the experts. how was your boston pro6.5? i'm not sure but i heard that boston speakers are good in the midrange. do you think it will sound good for mellow songs?

sad thing is there's nowhere near that i can go to compare boston & mb quart. all they have are jl audio, alpine, pioneer etc + those stuff you'll find in best buy & circuit city.

squeak9798
09-17-2004, 10:26 PM
The Pro's seem to have a "love 'em or hate 'em" thing going on. People either really liked them or really didn't like them :shrugs:

I personally liked them and didn't feel that they were lacking in the midrange department. Ofcourse, I also listen to mainly rock. For mellow stuff, I honestly think there may be better options. IMO the Pro's were definitely made for the "in your face" kind of crowd (hence the high power handling capabilities), which is the category I fall into. The Z6s are another story though......definitely sound good with jazz. Although they may be out of your budget at $1k retail and $800 online pricetag (http://www.woofersetc.com/product.asp?0=237&1=238&3=2291) (and I don't remember what you budget was from the start of this thread.....LOL). And like I said, I can't give a comparison between those and the Quarts :( Never heard the Quarts.


If you want more opinions, go to http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/index.php (yes, you need to register to view) and ask there in the general section. That is a sound quality oriented board, with many people who have direct experience with the products you are asking about. Many IASCA competitors and world champs.....great people too, very helpful.

mr personality
09-17-2004, 11:30 PM
squeak, since you emphasize the importance of a good installation process, would it be better off for me to go to best buy / circuit city and get it done. shouldnt be that expensive considering i dont wanna mess up anything at this point in time. what say you?

squeak9798
09-18-2004, 09:46 AM
Rule #1: Never let Best Buy or Circut City touch your vehicle, and especially your equipment given their high-endness ;) The guys at BB/CC are used to throwing a pair of co-axials in the doors of a car as absolutely fast as possible in order to get the car out of the bay to make way for the next "Deck and two" install. That, and the guys at BB/CC possess very little actual knowledge about the subject. Now, granted, this doesn't apply to every BB/CC employee as there are a few that surf these boards, but they cumulatively account for less than 3% of all BB/CC installers :)

If you don't feel confident that you can properly do the install, then seek out a well respected shop in your area to have the work done. Ask for pictures of their previous work, etc etc.

mrray13
09-18-2004, 10:02 AM
Rule #1: Never let Best Buy or Circut City touch your vehicle, and especially your equipment given their high-endness ;) The guys at BB/CC are used to throwing a pair of co-axials in the doors of a car as absolutely fast as possible in order to get the car out of the bay to make way for the next "Deck and two" install. That, and the guys at BB/CC possess very little actual knowledge about the subject. Now, granted, this doesn't apply to every BB/CC employee as there are a few that surf these boards, but they cumulatively account for less than 3% of all BB/CC installers :)

If you don't feel confident that you can properly do the install, then seek out a well respected shop in your area to have the work done. Ask for pictures of their previous work, etc etc.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!! :clap:


also...look into memphis sq series componets...very.very nice sounding speakers. extremely mello...

like stated earlier...u need to go out and listen and let ur ears decide...

with ur amp and budget..i'd do a better three way up front...let two channels of ur amp power the midrange and tweet and bridge two channels to run the midbass (if impedence allows, u might have to buy a 2-way set and add a midbass)..also, i would do as squeak suggests and run a good coaxil in the rears off the h/u..just to add a lil fill...enhances the stereo imaging a bit...



btw...the diamonds are excellent componets, as are id's and focals...but right now i'd go with memphis...they really are that mellow and sound awesome!! don't know if they come in a three way..but u could always add a koda midbass to the mix!!



good luck.....it sounds like ur going to be sounding sweet soon!!






wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :peace:

mr personality
09-18-2004, 07:14 PM
now i know. anyway, at first i thought of letting these bb/cc guys install it because they offer a lifetime warranty on the installation as long as i own the car. not that i like these places either, but just trying to be safe since they have outlets everywhere around the country and i can just go to any of them for repair.

oh well. now i think i'll go to the nearest big city and get it installed by a pro audio shop. i guess that will be a smarter & wiser move. thanks guys.

mrray13
09-18-2004, 07:17 PM
now i know. anyway, at first i thought of letting these bb/cc guys install it because they offer a lifetime warranty on the installation as long as i own the car. not that i like these places either, but just trying to be safe since they have outlets everywhere around the country and i can just go to any of them for repair.

oh well. now i think i'll go to the nearest big city and get it installed by a pro audio shop. i guess that will be a smarter & wiser move. thanks guys.



most pro shops offer the same warranty..especially if u bought from them...ie: while ur there listen to some componets


u'll be happier in the end!





wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :peace:

mr personality
09-18-2004, 07:37 PM
mrray, i tried searching for memphis speakers in all kinds of search engine, didnt really find anything. you have the official webbie for it?

and by the way, how's the focals on your front? would you recommend them?
oh and if you know focal well, how about focal k2p & utopia

LadyBenzSoundz
09-19-2004, 12:11 PM
I read your post carefully. All the replies mentioned really good component speakers. I am wondering if you chose the JL 3-way components because you auditioned them in a showroom somewhere or in someone's car? I recommend taking your favorite CD and listening to the speakers that you are considering. My choice was JL Audio's XR-650 2 way in the front and the XR-650 coaxials in the rear. I believe in matching the speakers with similar makeup even for rear fill. The sound is very balanced especially with my headunit's sound correction feature.

I didn't have a brand name bias. My first car audio system had Polk Audio which I loved which has a silk tweeter. I prefer a smoother sound. I don't like harsh and piecing sounds.

You did mention crisp though. That makes me think that you lean towards a more piercing tweeter. Even though the tweeter of the XR JL Audio components are aluminum, they are smooth. I enjoy classical, jazz, gospel, rap, and some rock. I do not play my music at extremely high volumes.

My JL audio components are run off a JL 300/4 amplifier which delivers constant power with minimal noise and distortion. I have an Alpine CDA-9835 headunit. I highly recommend the JL Audio 300/4 for your components in the front and some coaxials in the back.

Three ways don't sound like a bad idea if you have an optimal place to mount them and you set up the crossovers correctly. Otherwise, a two-way might be sufficient.

People on here have good advice, but YOU have to live daily with your choices. You want a stereo upgrade to enhance your vehicle. I say take your time auditioning the speakers. Really listen for the highs. Music type really does matter.

For a smooth sound, I highly recommend Polk Audio db or JL Audio XR components as I have experienced both. After having polk audio for years, the Infinity sound is way too crisp and harsh for my taste but that doesn't mean that they don't satisfy others. It's all subjective. Good luck.

mrray13
09-19-2004, 03:46 PM
mrray, i tried searching for memphis speakers in all kinds of search engine, didnt really find anything. you have the official webbie for it?

and by the way, how's the focals on your front? would you recommend them?
oh and if you know focal well, how about focal k2p & utopia


memphis car audio website (http://memphiscaraudio.com/) is where u can find some info on any memphis product. u'll also notice that memphis DOES NOT have any authorized internet dealers. everything from their pr series and up is worth a look.


my focals...well, i've had them going on three years. kinda gives u the idea i like them...which i do. they have been really decent componets..at lower power levels. at higher power levels the tweeter is just too aggresive for my taste..that's why i will be buying silk tweeters when money allows, probably the memphis sq series. also, the polyglass series i'm using is just above focal's entry level..the other two series u mentioned are the two above mine. they will handle good power, they don't even come with a rms rating, so u can really push them if u want.


but like i mentioned before and ladybenz just mentioned...u need to go audition the componets ur interested in..especially the tweeters. i like a metallic tweeter, like my focals, at low power..but at higher power levels, the silks just have a much smoother sound to them. but only u will know what u will like.....

so listen to as many different kinds as u can, then u can decide. as ladybenz pointed out..u have to live with ur decision. all we can do is offer advice..



good luck!!




wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :peace:

mr personality
09-19-2004, 06:14 PM
thanks guys. all of you have been a great help. will inform y'all shortly after my considering period.

3.5Max6spd
09-20-2004, 09:30 AM
just throw some German made Rainbow Profi Vanadium 3ways and never look back.......that truck deserves some high end TLC, just be aware that you may never want anything other than Rainbow again after you own them- anything from 85-125rms will make them sound amazing

mr personality
09-20-2004, 07:48 PM
guys, can you check out the only (yes, only!) "high-end" audio shop where i am (excl bestbuy & circuit city). this is prolly where i'll get my components installed when i get them. judging from the works shown on their webbie, can you comment whether they are reliable enough. i can go to big cities, but wanna save the 3 hrs or so drive.

http://www.paulandtonys.com/

http://www.paulandtonys.com/escalade/Escalade

and no, i'm not getting anything from there. just installation.

nosaj070
09-20-2004, 08:19 PM
guys, can you check out the only (yes, only!) "high-end" audio shop where i am (excl bestbuy & circuit city). this is prolly where i'll get my components installed when i get them. judging from the works shown on their webbie, can you comment whether they are reliable enough. i can go to big cities, but wanna save the 3 hrs or so drive.

http://www.paulandtonys.com/

http://www.paulandtonys.com/escalade/Escalade

and no, i'm not getting anything from there. just installation.

That looks pretty decent. I would trust them to do an install judging by those pictures, but you also cannot tell everything from them. Also what will they charge to install the comps?

mr personality
09-20-2004, 09:05 PM
they charge by the hour. it's $40/hr for the labour. there's no other alternative unless i take a 3 hr drive to a big city. they look decent to me, but i'd just confirm with y'all since i'm no expert in this field. seems to know what they are doing/talking about when i visited them.

nosaj070
09-20-2004, 09:23 PM
40 an hour isn't too bad, as long as they aren't ***** and take their sweet time doing it. Where are you having them installed? are there stock locations or what?

mr personality
09-20-2004, 09:37 PM
they have a garage behind the shop. they say it should take around 2 hr to install an amp and 1 hr for each speaker. i think that's reasonable enough.

anyway i'm still shopping around for the set of speakers. prolly going with a 3 way, so it'll take a little longer than normal. any estimate on how long should a 3 way installation take? or any suggestion on which one i should look into based on earlier discussion?

db11astro
09-21-2004, 02:59 PM
all alpine 100% the performance is unreal

nosaj070
09-21-2004, 03:21 PM
they have a garage behind the shop. they say it should take around 2 hr to install an amp and 1 hr for each speaker. i think that's reasonable enough.

anyway i'm still shopping around for the set of speakers. prolly going with a 3 way, so it'll take a little longer than normal. any estimate on how long should a 3 way installation take? or any suggestion on which one i should look into based on earlier discussion?

Wow two hours for an amp...3 way can take an insane amount of time because of where the third speaker has to go, it usually needs to be fabricated.

mr personality
09-21-2004, 10:45 PM
squeak, you're one of the few people who've heard both dls iridium 6.3 (3 way) and boston z6 (2 way). any review/suggestion between the two?