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chubby
09-13-2004, 11:26 AM
alright i have some 6.5' CDT carbon fiber euroframes in my car with the 1in silk tweet and the 560 xover. right now i have the tweeters in the stock location and pointed towards the driver/passenger. i am thinking of getting the upstage kit. should i point the a pillar tweeters towards the windshield for better imaging/staging? espicielly with the upstage kit? by the way the upstage tweeter is going to be the one already in the a-pillar and the main tweeter is going to be another set of 1 inch silks in the doors.

thoughts? answers?

squeak9798
09-13-2004, 11:45 AM
Before you go laying out the money for the "upstage kit", try playing with the aiming and positioning of your current tweeters and mids. You should be able to get a nice high and wide soundstage with the current tweeters/mids that you have, you just need to work on the current install and tuning. Try better aiming of the speakers, try flipping the phases, etc etc.

That "upstage kit" appears to be nothing more than a band-aid for a poor install................

chubby
09-13-2004, 06:49 PM
unfortunately the positioning of the 6.5 in the stock spots have hardly any positioning options as far as tilt etc. were you saying i should possibly try to tilt the 6.5s in the door (by your feet almost :-/ )slightly upwards? i may be bale to get maybe a quarter to half inch of tilt mayyybe if i try. also how would you suggest aiming the tweets, windshield or towrds the passengers

nealn87
09-14-2004, 03:50 PM
So if you position the tweeters toward the windshield it will sound better than pointing them to them to the passanger and driver??

squeak9798
09-14-2004, 05:38 PM
unfortunately the positioning of the 6.5 in the stock spots have hardly any positioning options as far as tilt etc. were you saying i should possibly try to tilt the 6.5s in the door (by your feet almost :-/ )slightly upwards? i may be bale to get maybe a quarter to half inch of tilt mayyybe if i try.

If you can't aim them, then I guess you just have to work with what you have. But for cheaper than the cost of the upstage kit you could build your own kickpanels.


also how would you suggest aiming the tweets, windshield or towrds the passengers

Just try them out in different positions and different locations till you find the spot that works best. It's times like these that the velcro that Home Depot sells comes in handy ;)

squeak9798
09-14-2004, 05:38 PM
So if you position the tweeters toward the windshield it will sound better than pointing them to them to the passanger and driver??

You just need to try them out and see what sounds best in your car.

jujumantb
09-14-2004, 05:46 PM
That "upstage kit" appears to be nothing more than a band-aid for a poor install................
I wouldnt say stuff like this when you obviously have no experience with it. :chicken:
The x-over point between most mids and tweets is pretty important. The tweeter and mid should be as close as possible to eachother to sound best, can be pulled off in other ways but not often. Now in the car environment, the only practical way to do this is to have both the mid and tweeter low down in kicks of in the doors. So now your components blend seemlessly between the mid and tweet, BUT! your soundstage is probly a bit low. This is where the kit comes in. It crosses the extra tweets higher in a "non-critical", if you will, frequency where they will help pull the stage up while being virtually transparent. I had my doubts on it, but it exceeded all expectations, which is the pretty much overall opinion from everyone that has used them.

squeak9798
09-14-2004, 05:50 PM
I wouldnt say stuff like this when you obviously have no experience with it. :chicken:
The x-over point between most mids and tweets is pretty important. The tweeter and mid should be as close as possible to eachother to sound best, can be pulled off in other ways but not often. Now in the car environment, the only practical way to do this is to have both the mid and tweeter low down in kicks of in the doors. So now your components blend seemlessly between the mid and tweet, BUT! your soundstage is probly a bit low. This is where the kit comes in. It crosses the extra tweets higher in a "non-critical", if you will, frequency where they will help pull the stage up while being virtually transparent. I had my doubts on it, but it exceeded all expectations, which is the pretty much overall opinion from everyone that has used them.

So I suppose all those IASCA competitors that run tweets/mids in kicks don't get a high soundstage?? If you have them in kicks, and you have a low soundstage then you need to re-aim your kicks and play with the phases and other tuning issues. It is perfectly possible to get a great soundstage without additional tweeters.......unless you want to do it for the psychoacoustic aspect "Oh, wow, look, there are speakers up here so they must raise the soundstage".........Even with the mid in the factory location you should be able to get a good soundstage by playing with tweeter positioning.

If you have a good install, then they are unnecessary. If they were such a necessity, then every company would offer them.

And honestly, the are crossed over at something like 10Khz......there is barely any musicaly information up that high, atleast not many that would have a drastic effect on the soundstage. The voices would still sound like they are coming from down low, along with guitars, drums, etc etc

jujumantb
09-14-2004, 06:03 PM
So I suppose all those IASCA competitors that run tweets/mids in kicks don't get a high soundstage?? If you have them in kicks, and you have a low soundstage then you need to re-aim your kicks and play with the phases and other tuning issues. It is perfectly possible to get a great soundstage without additional tweeters.......unless you want to do it for the psychoacoustic aspect "Oh, wow, look, there are speakers up here so they must raise the soundstage".........

If you have a good install, then they are unnecessary. If they were such a necessity, then every company would offer them.

And honestly, the are crossed over at something like 10Khz......there is barely any musicaly information up that high, atleast not many that would have a drastic effect on the soundstage. The voices would still sound like they are coming from down low, along with guitars, drums, etc etc
Sure competitors who have been in the hobby for many many years can pull it off, like I said. But most of us cant, you cant. Its just stupid to judge a product before have ANY experience with it. So stop.

squeak9798
09-14-2004, 08:26 PM
Sure competitors who have been in the hobby for many many years can pull it off, like I said. But most of us cant, you cant. Its just stupid to judge a product before have ANY experience with it. So stop.

It's not some special new thing that nobody has ever used before. It's a freakin' auxillary tweeter, and that's it!! Nothing special or "product related" about it. And how exactly do you know my abilities?? I can tell you one thing, I don't need to use auxillary tweets to raise my soundstage ;) (nor have I ever). But if people need to use them to mask the true problem, more power to 'em.............


The true test to their effectiveness is witnessed by the numerous times people have put unpowered tweeters in their A-pillars and had people tell them "Wow, those tweeters helped out a lot with the soundstage"............... psychoacoustics