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adam71
08-29-2004, 05:04 PM
I was just wondering if anyone in these forums used high-end decks.

Such as : Denon, McIntosh, Nakamichi or popular brand's flagships...such as Premier P9 or Clarion DRZ9255 or Alpine's flagship.

EFFENDI
08-29-2004, 05:24 PM
most of us cant afford that stuff.....

ngsm13
08-29-2004, 05:26 PM
I use an eclipse 8053 w/ balanced out. 16v, low impendace pre-outs. Amazing deck, alas...it is sold. peace

NG

UndercoverPunk
08-29-2004, 05:27 PM
I have Blaupunkt's flagship, and I can't wait to trade that ***** in for an eclipse...

slick316
08-29-2004, 05:31 PM
i have a DRZ9255, great deck, it was an upgrade from a 8053.

JLCivic
08-29-2004, 05:35 PM
My last deck was an 8053(definitely a great deck), and now I use the RF 8250.

idiot
08-29-2004, 06:01 PM
I'm using the 8250 as well.

ShakinSupra
08-29-2004, 06:02 PM
Using a Nakamichi CD-45Z, love it.

adam71
08-29-2004, 06:03 PM
i have a DRZ9255, great deck, it was an upgrade from a 8053.

Nice !! I like the feature that lets you use the D/A converter in that deck with the Clarion flagship changer via optical digital input.

js1
08-29-2004, 06:04 PM
I was close to gettiing an RF that people told me was rebadged Denon or something but I got the much prettier Sony and Im now the laughin stock of this forum. :)

-j

adam71
08-29-2004, 06:05 PM
I'm using the 8250 as well.

That is the Denon unit right???

JimJ
08-29-2004, 06:08 PM
yeah....

or Denford or Denonford or any other bastardization of the word.

slick316
08-29-2004, 06:17 PM
Nice !! I like the feature that lets you use the D/A converter in that deck with the Clarion flagship changer via optical digital input.

i know, that is a nice feature, i plan on using it one day, on a low cash flow right now :(

js1
08-29-2004, 06:31 PM
If its the same unit, it was on sale for pretty cheap. I was at one of the deal sites and a few people were saying what a quality unit it was and that is was like less than a 3rd of what the same denon went for. I just couldnt get past the looks and my stock hu was working back then.

Oh well, live and learn.

-j

pwr2max
08-29-2004, 07:04 PM
I got a Alpine CDA-7998. Its not installed yet but you might consider it high end.

guitar012345678
08-29-2004, 07:47 PM
i got a nak cd-400. i love it. its sounds great, easy to use, no static, only 300$, nice unit.

Bavarian3
08-29-2004, 08:15 PM
eclipse 8053 user right here.....doesnt get much more high end than that. unless u go alpine F1 status or something.

adam71
08-30-2004, 12:09 AM
eclipse 8053 user right here.....doesnt get much more high end than that. unless u go alpine F1 status or something.

:scared: Premier DEX-P9, Clarion DRZ-9255, McIntosh....to name a few.

Bavarian3
08-30-2004, 02:12 AM
:scared: Premier DEX-P9, Clarion DRZ-9255, McIntosh....to name a few.
these units dont have anything more than the eclipse as far as i know, ur not getting any cleaner sound or anything. The eclipse has every feature u could possible need in a head unit including every Xover point u could want, very indepth time correction, 2 levels of 6 band Parametric EQ's (1 for highs 1 for mids) and phase control. So yea im sure those decks mentioned have this, but there isnt anything else really beyond it in performance.

MB07
08-30-2004, 03:22 AM
I'm running an Alpine DVA 7996. Built in DVD. Pretty nice kinda boring looking though.

Berry47
08-30-2004, 12:25 PM
I need an 8053!!!! I love my 5443!!!

adam71
08-30-2004, 06:18 PM
these units dont have anything more than the eclipse as far as i know, ur not getting any cleaner sound or anything. The eclipse has every feature u could possible need in a head unit including every Xover point u could want, very indepth time correction, 2 levels of 6 band Parametric EQ's (1 for highs 1 for mids) and phase control. So yea im sure those decks mentioned have this, but there isnt anything else really beyond it in performance.

First of all anyone really into high end sound would NOT be using the decks internal crossover. They'd be using seperate everything. :wave:

On a side note, that 8053 or the Premier P9 aren't even close the same calibur as the McIntosh units or the Nakamichi CD-700II. I'm not biased ok its just the simple truth.

squeak9798
08-30-2004, 06:23 PM
eclipse 8053 user right here.....doesnt get much more high end than that. unless u go alpine F1 status or something.


Denon Z1, Nakamichi CD700II, Sound Monitor (Eclipse's high end in Japan), McIntosh MX406 just to name a few. And really Alpine's high end JDM products kick the crap out of anything here in America. Also, Pioneer has ODR gear in other markets as well. The US just doesn't have the high end need that other countries do, so we really don't have much of a "high end" offering here in the states.


But I'm running the Denford 8240 :) Does everything I need it too, reads the discs and changes the volume :D

3.5Max6spd
08-30-2004, 06:51 PM
I dont believe any of the decks mentioned can touch the low impedance output signal of 55ohms....so I have to agree that the 8v(8443/8454/8053) Eclipse decks are pretty darn high end

bri487
08-30-2004, 06:55 PM
had a denon once. it was about 8 years ago though. it still was a great deck. it was an old school pull out deck. flip the little handle up and slide the whole deck out. anyone remember those?

squeak9798
08-30-2004, 06:55 PM
I dont believe any of the decks mentioned can touch the low impedance output signal of 55ohms....so I have to agree that the 8v(8443/8454/8053) Eclipse decks are pretty darn high end



And none of the deck's mentioned can match the Z1's DAC.........or even come close to it. Oh, and you stand corrected.....the Z1 has 50ohm preouts ;)

`pr0digy
08-30-2004, 07:22 PM
I have a "high end" Alpine, cda-9815. It does everything and more I could need it to, but don't decieve yourself - Alpine is definitly NOT "high end high end"

BASS OUTLAW
08-30-2004, 07:26 PM
these units dont have anything more than the eclipse as far as i know, ur not getting any cleaner sound or anything. The eclipse has every feature u could possible need in a head unit including every Xover point u could want, very indepth time correction, 2 levels of 6 band Parametric EQ's (1 for highs 1 for mids) and phase control. So yea im sure those decks mentioned have this, but there isnt anything else really beyond it in performance.
yeah nothing else in performance-->after performance i go for LOOKS ,
MATRIX dotted LCD display :coolflas:

3.5Max6spd
08-30-2004, 07:39 PM
yeah nothing else in performance-->after performance i go for LOOKS ,
MATRIX dotted LCD display :coolflas:
try vaccum fluorescent on the 8 series :moon:

besides whats the point of fruity flying dolphins when the display is basically going to break

3.5Max6spd
08-30-2004, 07:41 PM
And none of the deck's mentioned can match the Z1's DAC.........or even come close to it. Oh, and you stand corrected.....the Z1 has 50ohm preouts ;)

I stand corrected- still thats pretty close on the spec that probably has the most importance in SQ as far as signal tranfer-thats on hell of a distance between prices tho

Bavarian3
08-30-2004, 08:05 PM
First of all anyone really into high end sound would NOT be using the decks internal crossover. They'd be using seperate everything. :wave:
they use seperate everything? since when? what advantages are u getting from an external crossover instead of using the crossovers on the eclipse deck....

Bavarian3
08-30-2004, 08:06 PM
On a side note, that 8053 or the Premier P9 aren't even close the same calibur as the McIntosh units or the Nakamichi CD-700II. I'm not biased ok its just the simple truth.
i think u should start putting some reasoning behind ur posts before posting up random comments.....

adam71
08-30-2004, 10:28 PM
they use seperate everything? since when?....


What do you mean since when??? Since always. Don't you keep up with AUDIO.?? High end home audio systems use all seperate components...not a receiver. Same thing applies here.



what advantages are u getting from an external crossover instead of using the crossovers on the eclipse deck

There are plenty of advantages of using an outboard crossover.

1- A high quality outboard crossover is of higher quality than an onboard x-over.

2- More x-over points to choose from with the use of a dial. Not the preset choices that an onboard gives you.

3- If you wanted to upgrade your deck you don't have to bring the crossover into consideration because you can use the outboard you already have.


So there you have it: upgradability, flexibility, and higher quality.
:cool:

squeak9798
08-30-2004, 10:54 PM
I stand corrected- still thats pretty close on the spec that probably has the most importance in SQ as far as signal tranfer-thats on hell of a distance between prices tho

Signal transfer, yeah. But as for the signal chain as a whole, nothing can touch Denon's alpha processing. Their DAC is one of, if not the, best built-in processors. A lot more to the Denon than just output impedence.

Bavarian3
08-31-2004, 02:20 AM
There are plenty of advantages of using an outboard crossover.

1- A high quality outboard crossover is of higher quality than an onboard x-over.

2- More x-over points to choose from with the use of a dial. Not the preset choices that an onboard gives you.

3- If you wanted to upgrade your deck you don't have to bring the crossover into consideration because you can use the outboard you already have.


So there you have it: upgradability, flexibility, and higher quality.
:cool:
so basically u gave no legitement reason. reason #1, external Xover is better quality? what?. Reason #2, u obviously have no idea what kind of Xover points the eclipse unit has. It gives me the exact Xover points i needed for my ID horns and midbass as well as slopes. reason #3...pretty pointless and has no relevance to why an external Xover is better. If u have the best deck like one of these how could u upgrade to something that doesnt have the features the current unit does.

i figured u had no idea what u were talking about.

zephyr
08-31-2004, 01:43 PM
One more denonford user here, RF8250. By far the best sounding HU I've ever had.

adam71
08-31-2004, 04:53 PM
so basically u gave no legitement reason. reason #1, external Xover is better quality? what?. Reason #2, u obviously have no idea what kind of Xover points the eclipse unit has. It gives me the exact Xover points i needed for my ID horns and midbass as well as slopes. reason #3...pretty pointless and has no relevance to why an external Xover is better. If u have the best deck like one of these how could u upgrade to something that doesnt have the features the current unit does.

i figured u had no idea what u were talking about.


I'm sorry, did I miss something?? Did IQ's drop sharp while I was away?? First of all what is LEGITEMENT ?? Is that some kind of new arthritis medicine or something? Anyway, I gave you 3 LEGITIMATE (notice how I spelled it) reasons why an outboard crossover is better. Let's review once more since the short bus students came in late.

1- It's common knowledge that when you have a seperate crossover or any processor that doesn't share a chassis with something else it will be of better quality than one that is part of a headunit which has a ton of things going on inside. The phrase "too many cooks in the kitchen" comes to mind.

2- You are right I don't know what presets your deck has. But I can tell you this. Not as many as an external. So the presets work for your setup, thats good for you but what if you were to change speakers and needed to roll your highs off a little higher, then what??? An external would have no problem with this change.

3- First of all your claim to having the best deck is false. Its your opinion that you're trying to sell off as fact. You have a very nice deck but that doesn't mean it does everything perfect. I have a nice deck too but I'm not trying to say it was touched by the hand of God like you are. So being able to upgrade down the line is always on MY mind. There is ALWAYS room for improvement in ANY system. :veryhapp:

BASS OUTLAW
08-31-2004, 04:56 PM
excuse me adam, can i ask one question ?? nearly off topic, but its about HU

adam71
08-31-2004, 05:07 PM
excuse me adam, can i ask one question ?? nearly off topic, but its about HU

anytime man.......go ahead. ;)

BASS OUTLAW
08-31-2004, 05:31 PM
whats the most expensive HU brand, u can say exotic, and not many people tend to have it ?? :)
and

pre amp out puts : 4v, 4.5v , 5v, 6v ( in what way do they really make a difference) ?


thanks


-zAk

Bavarian3
08-31-2004, 05:36 PM
I'm sorry, did I miss something?? Did IQ's drop sharp while I was away?? First of all what is LEGITEMENT ?? Is that some kind of new arthritis medicine or something? Anyway, I gave you 3 LEGITIMATE (notice how I spelled it) reasons why an outboard crossover is better. Let's review once more since the short bus students came in late.

1- It's common knowledge that when you have a seperate crossover or any processor that doesn't share a chassis with something else it will be of better quality than one that is part of a headunit which has a ton of things going on inside. The phrase "too many cooks in the kitchen" comes to mind.

2- You are right I don't know what presets your deck has. But I can tell you this. Not as many as an external. So the presets work for your setup, thats good for you but what if you were to change speakers and needed to roll your highs off a little higher, then what??? An external would have no problem with this change.

3- First of all your claim to having the best deck is false. Its your opinion that you're trying to sell off as fact. You have a very nice deck but that doesn't mean it does everything perfect. I have a nice deck too but I'm not trying to say it was touched by the hand of God like you are. So being able to upgrade down the line is always on MY mind. There is ALWAYS room for improvement in ANY system. :veryhapp:
when did i say i have the best head unit what are u talking about?

tRiGgEr
08-31-2004, 05:37 PM
I have Sony's top model CDX-M9905x.

Its sony but dayam its hella good.

adam71
08-31-2004, 05:38 PM
whats the most expensive HU brand, u can say exotic, and not many people tend to have it ?? :)-zAk


Unless there are more out there I don't know about I would have to say McIntosh and Nakamichi are VERY expensive. Not sure how much but they're definitely up there.


pre amp out puts : 4v, 4.5v , 5v, 6v ( in what way do they really make a difference

High preout voltages help by letting you keep the gains on your amps down therefore lowering distortion and rasing your "signal to noise ratio". Simply put its definitely a benefit.

adam71
08-31-2004, 05:44 PM
If u have the best deck like one of these how could u upgrade to something that doesnt have the features the current unit does.

Thats when you said it. :wow:

Bavarian3
08-31-2004, 05:53 PM
Thats when you said it. :wow:
the best deck like one of these..........


what does THESE mean.

adam71
08-31-2004, 05:55 PM
the best deck like one of these..........


what does THESE mean.

Nevermind man, just drop it.......I made my point about Xovers and I don't feel like debating anymore. :D

Bavarian3
08-31-2004, 05:55 PM
u failed to prove a point, give it up. the only advantage external has over the internal is that u can have a more precise crossover point. u just keep saying that its better quality, but not giving reasons to back it up, its like saying im better than u are.

adam71
08-31-2004, 05:58 PM
u failed to prove a point, give it up. the only advantage external has over the internal is that u can have a more precise crossover point. u just keep saying that its better quality, but not giving reasons to back it up, its like saying im better than u are.

You don't have to take my word for it.......do some asking around and find out for yourself. :spank:

ngsm13
08-31-2004, 06:01 PM
Well, IMHO...the eclipse 8053 is one of the best SQ wise w/o using an external EQ or processor! So there...peace

NG

Bavarian3
08-31-2004, 06:01 PM
You don't have to take my word for it.......do some asking around and find out for yourself. :spank:
ok fine, so they are better quality.....define better quality? because i am confusing on what point u are trying to make here. Its like saying well this zapco amp has better quality components than this profile amp so its going to sound better than the profile...
i agree that u get a more precise tuning with external, but other than that i fail to see what else is better, and u have failed to tell me.

squeak9798
08-31-2004, 06:03 PM
whats the most expensive HU brand, u can say exotic, and not many people tend to have it ?? :)
and



According to the CA&E guide, the McIntosh MX406 has an MSRP of $900. The Nakamichi CD-700II will run you around $1300 IIRC. The Denon Z1 will run you close to $2000 here in the states. Then ofcourse you have the Alpine F#1 status CD player, which retails for $2400 and then the accompanying H990 processor for $2600 gives you a total of for the combo $5000 :)

squeak9798
08-31-2004, 06:06 PM
Well, IMHO...the eclipse 8053 is one of the best SQ wise w/o using an external EQ or processor! So there...peace

NG

Have you actually heard any of the high end Denon, Nakamichi's or McIntosh's the the adam originally asked about?

BASS OUTLAW
08-31-2004, 06:09 PM
According to the CA&E guide, the McIntosh MX406 has an MSRP of $900. The Nakamichi CD-700II will run you around $1300 IIRC. The Denon Z1 will run you close to $2000 here in the states. Then ofcourse you have the Alpine F#1 status CD player, which retails for $2400 and then the accompanying H990 processor for $2600 gives you a total of for the combo $5000 :)
holly sheit, u shoudnt have told me with that prices, 1 HU is double my system cost :crying:
well well , i should not dream about it then , ( well i didnt from the begining)


and hey , 6V is the highest pre amp output , or there is 7v and so ??

PS: adam , and bav , most thanks guys :)

squeak9798
08-31-2004, 06:18 PM
and hey , 6V is the highest pre amp output , or there is 7v and so ??

Eclipse has 8V outputs, and if you run them as balanced out then you get 16V :)

But preout voltage isn't the main thing to look for in a HU.

BASS OUTLAW
08-31-2004, 06:21 PM
Eclipse has 8V outputs, and if you run them as balanced out then you get 16V :)

But preout voltage isn't the main thing to look for in a HU.
all eclips brands got 8v ??

and hey , fill me in with some of the main things u look for in HU :) (if u dont mind )

Bavarian3
08-31-2004, 06:33 PM
all eclips brands got 8v ??

and hey , fill me in with some of the main things u look for in HU :) (if u dont mind )
depends on what u need, crossovers, EQ, mp3/wma if thats what u want, preout voltage for example eclipse 8053 or the new 8454 has 8 volts so the gains on the amplifier dont have to go very high, result is just cleaner signal, time correction is another great feature in a receiver, other than that most decks will do the same job.
Stick with Alpine, Eclipse, Pioneer, Denon, Clarion and u cant go wrong. nakamichi reuglar models have some serious reilability problems from what ive heard, sony is crap of course, kenwood and panasonic are eh......ok i guess. just stick with the above brands.

squeak9798
08-31-2004, 06:37 PM
so the gains on the amplifier dont have to go very high, may result in cleaner output

^^^ Changed your statement :) There is no guaranty that you will hear the difference in gain settings, and really most people not well acquainted with true SQ systems propably wouldn't be able to tell a difference unless you have a crappy amp that gets real noisy with a high gain setting.

JLCivic
08-31-2004, 06:39 PM
all eclips brands got 8v ??

and hey , fill me in with some of the main things u look for in HU :) (if u dont mind )

Not all Eclipse models have 8V pre outs. They have 3 different series:

3 series: 2.7V/300 ohm pre outs
5 series: 5V/55 ohm pre outs
8 series: 8V/55 ohm pre outs

I have owned several brands over the years(pioneer, alpine, kenwood, clarion, 4 Eclipses, and my current deck, the RF 8250).

Up until purchasing the 8250, the Eclipses were my favorite. I simply think they sounded better than all the other decks I had owned.

Now, as to what makes a deck SOUND better than another....that can be debated.
I have seen posts from people who go by specs alone(s/n ratio which, imo, is an utterly useless spec on a cd player).

I think a deck can sound better due to:

quality of the pre outs
dacs used
quality of the overall design of the deck
quality of parts used in the deck.

I trust my ears. If I like the sound of deck A over deck B, for example, the specs are irrelevant.

BASS OUTLAW
08-31-2004, 07:42 PM
well what can i say , thanks all for nice info :) ( am stickin with the pioneer)

InstalledStereo
09-02-2004, 06:16 AM
I have an Alpine CDA 7897 in with original box and all the stuff still with me. Anybody want to purchase it? Hehehe. I'm new here, just read the thread above and learned alot of new brands. I hope I can learn alot more here.

supa_c
09-02-2004, 06:43 AM
I have an Alpine CDA 7897 in with original box and all the stuff still with me. Anybody want to purchase it? Hehehe. I'm new here, just read the thread above and learned alot of new brands. I hope I can learn alot more here.wrong section ;)

BASS OUTLAW
09-02-2004, 06:52 AM
adam VS bav (thats what the thread is aaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllll about ) YUP ;)

3.5Max6spd
09-02-2004, 09:40 AM
Signal transfer, yeah. But as for the signal chain as a whole, nothing can touch Denon's alpha processing. Their DAC is one of, if not the, best built-in processors. A lot more to the Denon than just output impedence.

Now tell me how audibly you can tell the difference between Denon's and Eclipse DAC ? Other than the fact that Denon's is highly acclaimed for it in the home audio sector.....

squeak9798
09-02-2004, 04:52 PM
Do you know what Denon's alpha processing is?

3.5Max6spd
09-02-2004, 05:47 PM
Do you know what Denon's alpha processing is?
Do you wish to elaborate?

supa_c
09-02-2004, 06:23 PM
please guys, maturity ?
PM if you wanna go back and forth.

Bavarian3
09-02-2004, 06:47 PM
please guys, maturity ?
PM if you wanna go back and forth.
i dont see any non maturity there.....theyr just disputing something

supa_c
09-02-2004, 06:50 PM
a 26 year old getting in a dispute with a 100 year old.:waycrazy:

squeak9798
09-02-2004, 06:57 PM
please guys, maturity ?


Both were serious questions IMO. Neither comments were condescending.





Do you wish to elaborate?

Denon's better at explaining it than I am: http://denon.jp/asia/faq/2-1a.html

supa_c
09-02-2004, 07:02 PM
read my last post beore this one ;)
just a joke

squeak9798
09-02-2004, 07:05 PM
read my last post beore this one ;)
just a joke

I didn't see that one :)

supa_c
09-02-2004, 07:08 PM
you old geezers, cant see for ████ !
Mc intsosh makes H/U right ?

squeak9798
09-02-2004, 07:09 PM
you old geezers, cant see for ████ !

Only when I'm not wearing my tri-focals :)

**haha, I made a funny**


Mc intsosh makes H/U right ?

Yes, and expensive ones :)

3.5Max6spd
09-16-2004, 07:36 PM
Both were serious questions IMO. Neither comments were condescending.






Denon's better at explaining it than I am: http://denon.jp/asia/faq/2-1a.html

I still dont see what Denon's alpha processing DAC has over Eclipse's Alpha processing DAC Yes Eclipse has this in a much less expensive unit, so does it not clasify as high end?:popcorn:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/244000-244999/244210_77_full.jpg

valant_94gt
09-16-2004, 11:38 PM
Can I just add 1 thing, This is for SQ and pre amp V,

I've had a ***** load of Hu's , from: Kenwood, Alpine, Pioneer, Always their top shelf,
My last deck was the Alpine cda-9835, I sold it, now my current HU is a freakin portable Cd Player.
Sound is the same if not better than the Alpine,
Only thing I have no control, only volume,
Go debate that 1, All my wiring is top notch, speakers are good and my amp is the best $20 I've ever spent ! 75 X 2 @ 11v so maybe 100 @ 14v ?

Currently running RE re 6.5 components with a USX-2075.

ngsm13
09-17-2004, 12:37 AM
Bottom line is, Eclipse makes high end decks, as well as clarion. The one's squeak are talking about a EXTREME high end audiophile, NEVER attainable or realisticly useable for anyone on this site. They are just rediculously EXTREME hi-end audiophile decks, i put them in a different league all together. So, IMHO...eclipse does make high-end decks. peace

NG

adam71
09-17-2004, 05:29 AM
Eclipse's flagship isn't what I meant by high end when I started this thread. Whether many people on this forum can afford them or not is irrelevant. I was only trying to see how many people had these "high end" and yes EXPENSIVE decks. You can argue this til' the cows come home but Eclipse is NOT in the same class as Denon, McIntosh, the older Premier ODR line, Clarion's DRZ-9255, Nakamichi's flagship, Premier DEX-P9, or Alpines CDA-7990. There is a significant price difference between these decks and the 8454 for a reason.

The 8454 is an excellent deck and I would recommend it to anyone looking for a great sounding deck so don't think I'm trying to hate on Eclipse or anything. :nerd:

3.5Max6spd
09-17-2004, 12:33 PM
Eclipse's flagship isn't what I meant by high end when I started this thread. Whether many people on this forum can afford them or not is irrelevant. I was only trying to see how many people had these "high end" and yes EXPENSIVE decks. :nerd:

That didn't make alot of sense.....

Although high end stuff can run pricey- i wouldn't make it a rule that it has to be expensive to be considered high end- true audiophiles know where its at and price
is not an issue

I own a Denon AVR-2805 that ran me a pretty penny and itsthe backbone of my home stereo system, its an astounding receiver and I dont regret ditching my perfectly fine 5+ yr old Yamaha for it- but when it comes to the car decks I know the reason they are so pricey, its not that they are out of this world, its that Denon has a home audio cult following thats willing to shed that kind of $$ -


My intrigue in Squeeks adoring of the Z1 is that he mentions the DAc and alpha processing to be something out of this world- like Denon is the only one to offer it in its $2K deck, whereas Eclipses 5v/8v decks that run between $450-600 have all that- and they specialize in car audio

I''m not saying the Eclipses are better, but those points are irrelevant in how one is better than the other when they both have these specs- now a $1500 difference in quite a lump of $$, so again what makes the Z1 so special that a $500 unit cannot be regarded in its class?

Now the McIntosh in another hand can compensate because its truly unique, designed from scratch, , and hand built by some of the finest technicians in car audio, who arguably hand build the finest amplifiers in the world, both home and car audio

And please, when you mention high end, build quality should be a characteristic of such, and we all know Pioneer has the worst build quality of all the decks mentioned in this thread.....my dealers shop is a junk yard for Pioneer decks, and these are decks that come directly from Pioneer themselves- - not trying to hate on Pioneer or anything, just a fact:nerd:

squeak9798
09-17-2004, 12:39 PM
I own a Denon AVR-2805 that ran me a pretty penny and itsthe backbone of my home stereo system, its an astounding receiver and I dont regret ditching my perfectly fine 5+ yr old Yamaha for it- but when it comes to the car decks I know the reason they are so pricey, its not that they are out of this world, its that Denon has a home audio cult following thats willing to shed that kind of $$

Now you are just using personal bias to argue your points. How many Denon decks have you personally used to qualify you to make that statement?? Specific models??



Now the McIntosh in another hand can compensate because its truly unique, designed from scratch, , and hand built by some of the finest technicians in car audio,

And for some reason you seem to think that the Denon is just some OEM unit that they pulled off of a shelf............what you just said about the Mc also applies to the Denon. So if you hold the Mc in such high regard, then you should hold the Denon in the same high regard, otherwise your just being hypocritical.


And please, when you mention high end, build quality should be a characteristic of such, and we all know Pioneer has the worst build quality of all the decks mentioned in this thread.....

6yrs and absolutely zero problems with any of my Pioneers........which includes the "infamous" 840MP

3.5Max6spd
09-17-2004, 12:45 PM
Now you are just using personal bias to argue your points. How many Denon decks have you personally used to qualify you to make that statement?? Specific models??




And for some reason you seem to think that the Denon is just some OEM unit that they pulled off of a shelf............what you just said about the Mc also applies to the Denon. So if you hold the Mc in such high regard, then you should hold the Denon in the same high regard, otherwise your just being hypocritical.



6yrs and absolutely zero problems with any of my Pioneers........which includes the "infamous" 840MP

I've heard my share of Denfords, they are good decks- I have no bias towards the Denon products, I own a freggin $900 home audio receiver by them- Your reference to the Z1's 'alpha processing DAC' in relevance to its exclusivity is faulty,since that technology is available in a $500 deck, so if anything your praise
of it its hypocritical- thats my point

squeak9798
09-17-2004, 12:55 PM
I've heard my share of Denfords, they are good decks- I have no bias towards the Denon products

Sorry, big difference between a Denford and the Z1


Your reference to the Z1's 'alpha processing DAC' in relevance to its exclusivity is faulty,since that technology is available in a $500 deck, so if anything your praise
of it its hypocritical- thats my point

They both use Crystal DAC's, big whoop. Doesn't mean they are the same Crystal DAC's

3.5Max6spd
09-17-2004, 01:02 PM
Sorry, big difference between a Denford and the Z1



They both use Crystal DAC's, big whoop. Doesn't mean they are the same Crystal DAC's

Perhaps if Eclipse raped its customers selling the CD8454 over the $1K mark it would get higher praise and respect, clearly has the technology, the specs and puts out the voltage and SQ necessary to be considered a high end deck, the again if it cost that much I most likely wouldn't be using it-

BTW Squeek, we're just having a discussion.....and I'd bet you haven't heard the Z1 to compare it to your Denford

squeak9798
09-17-2004, 01:15 PM
Yup, your right, Denon is raping people.........and you know that because you have looked at the design of the Z1 and know how you would have done it to improve on it's design, and you know where the flaws of it's designs are.........and ofcourse because you have heard one and compared it to your 8454. I mean, after all, it's not like its some custom designed and engineered peice like your beloved McIntosh (when it really is).......it's just some OEM piece that they order from South Korea. Go get 'er tiger :thumbupw:

BTW, I'm not going to respond to this thread again. There is no point to it

3.5Max6spd
09-17-2004, 01:40 PM
Yup, your right, Denon is raping people.........and you know that because you have looked at the design of the Z1 and know how you would have done it to improve on it's design, and you know where the flaws of it's designs are.........and ofcourse because you have heard one and compared it to your 8454. I mean, after all, it's not like its some custom designed and engineered peice like your beloved McIntosh (when it really is).......it's just some OEM piece that they order from South Korea. Go get 'er tiger :thumbupw:

BTW, I'm not going to respond to this thread again. There is no point to it

You dont have to respond anymore- its obvious even you dont know what makes that deck special other than name/price- you tried to throw '24 bit alpha processing DAC' at me as if its enough to make a point, not thinking that Eclipse incorporates this into a more affordable units (even the 5444 has it)- and I do not own the CD8454 FYI

The Z1 is probably the worlds greatest caraudio receiver, it maybe shyts on the Mac , the F1- Or maybe its just an RFx9420 with a different face, costing +$1500 more- who knows? not you or me thats 4 sure.....

BTW- no need to get bent out of shape, I've in no way disrespected you, clearly just having a discussion.......

adam71
09-17-2004, 03:42 PM
24 bit alpha processing DAC' at me as if its enough to make a point, not thinking that Eclipse incorporates this into a more affordable units (even the 5444 has it)-

First of all, its 20 bit Alpha Processing. Its been around for a long time and I wasn't aware that anyone other than Denon used such a process. I would like to see some proof of these Eclipse decks using such a process. Not calling you a liar but I see no where in the recent Eclipse lit or on the Eclipse web-site (which is a horrible web-site as far as giving useful info) that mentions this.

Also, squeak wasn't basing his total opinion on the Z1 based on only Alpha Processing. Denon decks have copper plated chassis, very good build quality, and very high quality standards. That is what makes it a GREAT deck, NOT just a couple of features.

One more thing,


we all know Pioneer has the worst build quality of all the decks mentioned in this thread

Have you ever heard touched or seen an older Premier ODR deck? Or what about the P9?? Very solidly made decks. Don't base your opinion of Pioneer decks based on some the lower model decks. Pioneer targets just about every market from the "every day" listener to most demanding "audiophile". So yes some of the lower model decks aren't built the best. But all manufacturers make sub par decks on the lower end.

3.5Max6spd
09-17-2004, 05:34 PM
First of all, its 20 bit Alpha Processing. Its been around for a long time and I wasn't aware that anyone other than Denon used such a process. I would like to see some proof of these Eclipse decks using such a process. Not calling you a liar but I see no where in the recent Eclipse lit or on the Eclipse web-site (which is a horrible web-site as far as giving useful info) that mentions this.

.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/membe...210_77_full.jpg

you can right click on the bottom right of the page when the icon shows up to view larger

squeak9798
09-17-2004, 05:38 PM
http://memimage.cardomain.net/membe...210_77_full.jpg


Linky no worky. I know I said I wouldn't post again......but your post only makes sense if that link works :D

3.5Max6spd
09-17-2004, 05:48 PM
weird....

Anyways Eclipse is "better at explaining it than I am";)

http://www.eclipse-web.com/index_cdchanger.html

you can dowload the pdf file on CD tuners and all the info is there.....pg 4

limitkid7
09-17-2004, 08:19 PM
so i guess we can say
high end deck
affordable high end deck?

adam71
09-18-2004, 07:56 AM
Well, in my opinion a deck with an internal amp is NOT a high end deck. Again, just my opinion. The Eclipse 8053 is a much better deck than the 8454. It has balanced outputs, no internal amp, and a lower THD rating (though not a huge or even audible differnce) but lower none the less.

3.5Max6spd
09-18-2004, 09:37 AM
Well, in my opinion a deck with an internal amp is NOT a high end deck. Again, just my opinion. The Eclipse 8053 is a much better deck than the 8454. It has balanced outputs, no internal amp, and a lower THD rating (though not a huge or even audible differnce) but lower none the less.

Correction no balanced outputs- its balanced output capable- which just about every other 8v can be with Eclipses add on driver- every 8v unit can run 8v 'balanced', yet the 8053 can run both 8v or 16 balanced

Strait out of PerryB(JLCivics site) so no need to download- You cannot deny Eclipse
8v decks are high end- the technology is there, and if you go to ECA and notice how many people use them in their SQ systems- It just happens that Eclipse made it affodably priced- To say its not in the same league as the others mentioned is ridiculous- price is the only culprit -
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/244000-244999/244210_77_full.jpg

Opinions are like a s s holes, everybody's got one.......

3.5Max6spd
09-18-2004, 09:58 AM
First of all, its 20 bit Alpha Processing. Its been around for a long time and I wasn't aware that anyone other than Denon used such a process. I would like to see some proof of these Eclipse decks using such a process. .


Now is that 'DUAL' 20 bit Alpha processing DAC's? Because the $900 McIntosh has two of those badboys....

Bavarian3
09-18-2004, 03:54 PM
Well, in my opinion a deck with an internal amp is NOT a high end deck. Again, just my opinion. The Eclipse 8053 is a much better deck than the 8454. It has balanced outputs, no internal amp, and a lower THD rating (though not a huge or even audible differnce) but lower none the less.
having an internal amp makes it less of a deck? wtf? theyre the same deck man.

adam71
09-20-2004, 08:54 AM
having an internal amp makes it less of a deck? wtf? theyre the same deck man.

In my opinion YES, it does make it less of a deck. The less things you have going on inside a head unit the less possibility of noise induced by an internal amp. Not to mention, less heat. Though very similar, they're not the same deck. But again, just my opinon.

:p:

Bavarian3
09-20-2004, 09:09 PM
In my opinion YES, it does make it less of a deck. The less things you have going on inside a head unit the less possibility of noise induced by an internal amp. Not to mention, less heat. Though very similar, they're not the same deck. But again, just my opinon.

:p:
just because it has an amp doesnt mean you need to use it, get my point. just because its there doesnt make it less of a deck, its kinda lame to sit here and listen to you babble on about receivers youve never used and barely anyone else uses. not sure why youre so against eclipse, eclipse users stand by their product for a reason. now youre gonna come back sayin how you arent against eclipse and think they make great products.

adam71
09-21-2004, 08:39 AM
just because it has an amp doesnt mean you need to use it, get my point. just because its there doesnt make it less of a deck, its kinda lame to sit here and listen to you babble on about receivers youve never used and barely anyone else uses. not sure why youre so against eclipse, eclipse users stand by their product for a reason. now youre gonna come back sayin how you arent against eclipse and think they make great products.


First of all you don't need to take that tone with me wise ***. I NEVER in any post said I was against Eclipse in any way. I merely stated my opinion about decks with internal amps aren't considered "high end" in my opinion. Note the prepositional phrase I just used (IN MY OPINION). No need to get upset ok. So if you ask me, you're babbling because you think you have to rise up and defend Eclipse when they didn't need defending in the first place. And as a matter of fact Eclipse does make good products. I don't use Eclipse because I once had an Eclipse head unit that took a shyt on me 3 times in the first 2 years I owned it.

Also, remember who started this thread. If you don't want to read my "babbling" then don't read it. Just that simple. :moon:

DNORX
09-21-2004, 06:03 PM
i got a kenwood KDC-V7022. not sure if its high end.

3.5Max6spd
09-21-2004, 06:36 PM
i got a kenwood KDC-V7022. not sure if its high end.

as long as it is to you its all that matters;)

DARKHART
09-21-2004, 07:20 PM
You guys have named alot of really great decks in this trend but I feel that you all have over looked the one deck that was made that still to this day hasn't been surpassed by any of the ones mentioned above ( IMO) and that would be the Sony CDX-C90 with it's four 20 bit Burr Brown DAC. I don't think any of these new decks could touch it in preformance, I may be wrong but that's just my opinon and I would like to hear some honest feedback...... :D :D :D

Guijs
09-21-2004, 11:22 PM
It'd true.... What about the SONY XES?

3.5Max6spd
09-22-2004, 09:06 AM
I cannot believe Sony ditched the ES line....very nice stuff indeed

adam71
09-22-2004, 05:27 PM
I heard that it was because the demand in the U.S. wasn't there anymore so they pulled the plug. Probably the same reason all high end stuff isn't here in the states anymore. :rolleyes: I don't get it. It's a darn shame we can't get a variety of that good stuff anymore. :crying:

-Adam

squeak9798
09-22-2004, 06:33 PM
I heard that it was because the demand in the U.S. wasn't there anymore so they pulled the plug. Probably the same reason all high end stuff isn't here in the states anymore.

That's why we don't have Denon decks, or Sound Monitor decks (Eclipse's super high-end in Japan), Pioneer ODR (which is still available overseas), etc etc etc.......... :bawling:


BTW, those Sound Monitor decks are beautiful.....looks along the same lines of McIntosh and the Clarion DRZ9255

3.5Max6spd
09-22-2004, 07:00 PM
That's why we don't have Denon decks, or Sound Monitor decks (Eclipse's super high-end in Japan), Pioneer ODR (which is still available overseas), etc etc etc.......... :bawling:


BTW, those Sound Monitor decks are beautiful.....looks along the same lines of McIntosh and the Clarion DRZ9255

you're back!! :clap:

squeak9798
09-22-2004, 07:01 PM
I've been watching, just not commenting :D

JLCivic
09-22-2004, 07:36 PM
I heard that it was because the demand in the U.S. wasn't there anymore so they pulled the plug. Probably the same reason all high end stuff isn't here in the states anymore. :rolleyes: I don't get it. It's a darn shame we can't get a variety of that good stuff anymore. :crying:

-Adam

Yeah, look at what really sells in the US...it isn't no frills, high end decks...sad but true.

People look for flash over substance most of the time. I have seen people come into the local shop and buy a deck simply because of the color of the backlighting.

slick316
09-22-2004, 09:35 PM
Yeah, look at what really sells in the US...it isn't no frills, high end decks...sad but true.

People look for flash over substance most of the time. I have seen people come into the local shop and buy a deck simply because of the color of the backlighting.

no kidding. i was at the local shop today and some guy comes in, he wanted a new cd player and basically described the eclipse 8454. they showed it to him and his reaction was "oh, it doesnt have an OEL display like Pioneer? i think i'll get something else, thanks"
he also claimed to be an audiophile where "high end features come first".

JLCivic
09-22-2004, 11:14 PM
no kidding. i was at the local shop today and some guy comes in, he wanted a new cd player and basically described the eclipse 8454. they showed it to him and his reaction was "oh, it doesnt have an OEL display like Pioneer? i think i'll get something else, thanks"
he also claimed to be an audiophile where "high end features come first".


I have said in a few posts on different forums, "I listen to the deck. I am not dating it."

I value performance above everything. Others want a billion features for $200(and that deck MUST be better than another $200 deck with not as many features....right?) lol

Everybody prioritizes different things, but that guy you describe is a fraud. He talks the game, but when it comes down to it, he wants flash over substance.

Guijs
09-23-2004, 12:00 AM
Well, here in Brasil we only have the entry-level Kenwood, Pioneer and Sony Decks! all other stuff have to be imported. We pay here R$2000+- for a Alpine 9835. Can you imagine pay U$2000 for this deck? With the money we spend here to build a good system, you can build a hi-end system in USA...

Tirefryr
09-26-2004, 02:50 PM
Nothing beats a good ole direct drive turntable in the car. Period!

Highest deck I've used: Sony CDX-C90. Loved it, and wouldn't even want to bother with anything else. Now, with that being said, could I tell the difference between that and any other CD player I've had? Yes, somewhat, but not enough to justify the price for it.

Now we can all sit here and argue about what is "best," but truth is, there isn't a best. It's all subjective. LEt's get something going about the quality of today's recordings. They ****. What's the point in spending a lot of money on a signal source if the original material is flawed? Ponder that. No more from me.

squeak9798
09-26-2004, 03:28 PM
Yes, the recordings of today do ****.....overly compressed in mastering to fit the mainstream.

Bavarian3
09-26-2004, 04:46 PM
Nothing beats a good ole direct drive turntable in the car. Period!

Highest deck I've used: Sony CDX-C90. Loved it, and wouldn't even want to bother with anything else. Now, with that being said, could I tell the difference between that and any other CD player I've had? Yes, somewhat, but not enough to justify the price for it.

Now we can all sit here and argue about what is "best," but truth is, there isn't a best. It's all subjective. LEt's get something going about the quality of today's recordings. They ****. What's the point in spending a lot of money on a signal source if the original material is flawed? Ponder that. No more from me.
not to mention how many people are using mp3 ****......

BryanGsu
09-29-2004, 10:08 PM
I love my CDX-C90. Had a Eclipse 5303R and I loved it but somebody trying to steal it tore the face off of it, and of course they were no longer making it. So i went to a Pioneer Premier forget which one 800-900 some number like that. Then I came across the Sony Es CDX-C90 and have kept it ever since.

awalbert88
10-01-2004, 07:30 PM
It seems that a CDX-C90 can be picked up on eBay fairly cheap. I just might have to look into getting one of those... Then I'm going to need to buy a new amp for my MB Quart's. Actually, I should probably get new components anyway, as I've taken a preference to slightly softer sound lately.

I'm a fan of the McIntosh head units, but with the lack of track searching (ie. you can't go back and forth inside a track), they're out of the picture for me. That's such a basic feature that I really don't want to be without. The Nakamichi CD-400 is another unit I've been considering, as it's really quite awesome. The Denon units are just too expensive, and I'm not convinced they are worth the price.