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View Full Version : how low do your 5.25" components go?



ClayMan
07-27-2004, 10:59 PM
I don't feel much bass from my Viper 550s. I'm obviously not expecting the 65Hz that it's rated at (though that would be nice), but I stop hearing changes in sound when I set the LP filter to 80Hz, or 100hz even. I'm interpreting that as the speakers are not giving me anything that low.

The reason I'm concerned is that my stock rear speakers, powered off my head unit (versus 100+ watts/channel from an amp to the Vipers) seem to hit harder...

I'm probably going to try some sine sweeps soon, figure out exactly where things start cutting off...

mattj
07-27-2004, 11:02 PM
Ever try putting those comps in a small enclosure like a kickpod? It usually makes the world of a difference.

ClayMan
07-27-2004, 11:12 PM
Unfortunately that's not possible.. I need my footrest so I must use the stock location, which supposedly isn't so bad - it's a relatively well-sealed kickpanel...


Ever try putting those comps in a small enclosure like a kickpod? It usually makes the world of a difference.

mattj
07-27-2004, 11:24 PM
Glass em in your door then. Or have someone else do it. With your options not open, they are going to stay the way they sound.

ClayMan
07-27-2004, 11:29 PM
I was hoping for an easier explanation... i.e.
-damaged woofers
-bad install (leak, needs MDF bracket?)
-sound deadening ?

either way... i just wanted to know how low other people's 5.25"s go, so I know how much potential there is, and if there's something *significantly* wrong with my install. At this point, I can't justify ripping apart my whole car again if it only gives me a couple Hz of extra extension...


Glass em in your door then. Or have someone else do it. With your options not open, they are going to stay the way they sound.

squeak9798
07-28-2004, 09:08 AM
How sound deadened is your door? Do you have the door completely sealed off? What type of baffle is the speaker mounted to (metal, plastic, wood)?

You really should be getting close to atleast 80hz out of them, 100hz should be no problem. If you don't think you are, then there might be some install problems.

desi_daru
07-28-2004, 02:53 PM
mine are rated at 30hz, but has to be proper install not jus throwing em in the door, BUT i set the hpf on my 4ch so that i feel safe sending em more power :D

jus an idea, get ur sub lpf at say 120hz and ur hpf at 120hz sound be fine (this is example, watever sounds best)

ClayMan
07-28-2004, 04:18 PM
They're mounted in the stock kickpanel location of a BMW E36. It came stock with a foam-like covering in the "enclosure", so in theory it should be completely "sealed off". So no baffle... (The Vipers protrude outwards a lot, so there would be barely enough clarence for an ideal MDF baffle, if at all)

The speakers are mounted by 4 screws poking through the foam-like deadener into the plastic retainers behind it.

I believe I'm getting 100Hz. How much lower I'm not exactly sure yet. I'll be doing the sine wave tests this weekend...


How sound deadened is your door? Do you have the door completely sealed off? What type of baffle is the speaker mounted to (metal, plastic, wood)?

You really should be getting close to atleast 80hz out of them, 100hz should be no problem. If you don't think you are, then there might be some install problems.

ClayMan
07-28-2004, 04:19 PM
Forgot to mention, that's the thing - no sub yet, otherwise I'd just let the sub handle it.

I really want my front compoennts to get down to at least 80Hz though, I don't want all the bass to be coming from behind me... (bass starts to become unidirectoinal ~80Hz)


mine are rated at 30hz, but has to be proper install not jus throwing em in the door, BUT i set the hpf on my 4ch so that i feel safe sending em more power :D

jus an idea, get ur sub lpf at say 120hz and ur hpf at 120hz sound be fine (this is example, watever sounds best)

jujumantb
07-28-2004, 04:30 PM
Ever try putting those comps in a small enclosure like a kickpod? It usually makes the world of a difference.
Not for lowend it doesnt, a small enclosure kills any bass. You want as big of an enclosure as possible, doors are great, just make sure you have a well sealed baffle to separate the waves. Kickpods are great for imaging and some kick to the upper midbass but NOT for lowend extension unless you port them low.

ClayMan
07-28-2004, 04:47 PM
Oh, just as an aside, does anyone know where I would find the freq. response graphs for my speakers? (DEI Viper 550.2)

squeak9798
07-28-2004, 05:55 PM
Not for lowend it doesnt, a small enclosure kills any bass. You want as big of an enclosure as possible, doors are great, just make sure you have a well sealed baffle to separate the waves. Kickpods are great for imaging and some kick to the upper midbass but NOT for lowend extension unless you port them low.

Yeah, most car speakers are designed for use in an IB enviornment, meaning a small enclosure will bump the Q way up there creating a lot of "peakyness" and no low end extension.

squeak9798
07-28-2004, 05:55 PM
Oh, just as an aside, does anyone know where I would find the freq. response graphs for my speakers? (DEI Viper 550.2)

Try contacting the manufacturer, but there is no guaranty that they will have any to provide to you.

mattj
07-28-2004, 11:05 PM
Not for lowend it doesnt, a small enclosure kills any bass. You want as big of an enclosure as possible, doors are great, just make sure you have a well sealed baffle to separate the waves. Kickpods are great for imaging and some kick to the upper midbass but NOT for lowend extension unless you port them low.

Why would you want <60hz coming from your mids anyways? Thats what a subwoofer is for. I told him to do kicks for that little extra bit of bass, not so he can have 3 6 mafia lows coming from his mids.

mattj
07-28-2004, 11:21 PM
Oh, just as an aside, does anyone know where I would find the freq. response graphs for my speakers? (DEI Viper 550.2)
Frequency response is determined by your vehicle and the area your drivers are in.

ClayMan
07-29-2004, 01:20 AM
Yup, but I just wanted a temporary solution, since I won't have a sub for a while, if at all. It just sounds really empty, with the strong mids and highs from the components, but no low end...

And my thinking was more like... If other people's mids can do it... Why can't mine?? ; )

Somebody suggested polyfill. Would that help? Or are there side effects that I don't know about...


Why would you want <60hz coming from your mids anyways? Thats what a subwoofer is for. I told him to do kicks for that little extra bit of bass, not so he can have 3 6 mafia lows coming from his mids.

mattj
07-29-2004, 08:22 AM
Polyfill is used generally in an enclosure. It slows down waves making the box perform as if it were bigger. An infinate baffle setup might not make the polyfill perform the way its supposed to.

ClayMan
07-29-2004, 03:21 PM
Polyfill is used generally in an enclosure. It slows down waves making the box perform as if it were bigger. An infinate baffle setup might not make the polyfill perform the way its supposed to.

My kickpanel is essentially a sealed enclosure. The question is, does the polyfilll have a detrimental effect on higher frequencies?

ClayMan
08-09-2004, 12:55 PM
Finally did the test -it's no wonder music sounded so empty. After listening to a variety of test tones and sine curves, the drop off around 160Hz downwards was pretty obvious, and it was all downhill from there. Needless to say I"m extremely disappointed - the speakers aren't being underpowered (overpowered probably actually) - the kickpanel enclosures can't be THAT small to be killing so much midbass right? I'm hoping that it's just a leak around the speaker...

maylar
08-11-2004, 01:52 PM
My Kicker RS5's are hipassed at about 60 Hz and take 60 watts without a whimper.

pavengmike6
08-11-2004, 02:52 PM
I was reading and it sounds like you put in the same size speaker, but is the magnet, and basket bigger than the other. If so you are taking away MUCH needed air space from that speaker. If there is no air to move then when the speaker wants to play the lower notes and move more air there is NOTHING left.

It could very well be a air leak. Did your stock ones have deeper bass? if so like I said how much of a difference is there in basket and magnet size.

ClayMan
08-12-2004, 01:07 AM
I was reading and it sounds like you put in the same size speaker, but is the magnet, and basket bigger than the other. If so you are taking away MUCH needed air space from that speaker. If there is no air to move then when the speaker wants to play the lower notes and move more air there is NOTHING left.

It could very well be a air leak. Did your stock ones have deeper bass? if so like I said how much of a difference is there in basket and magnet size.

Hmm I think in terms of basket and magnet size, it's not significant. The Vipers are neodymium magnets so they're pretty small and light for what they are (and the sound they're [supposed] to produce)

I'm really thinking it's an air leak. This weekend I'll have time to take it apart and investigate... I'm thinking some weatherstripping around the rim of the speaker and maybe some polyfill inside. I'll do it to one side first and see how it goes...

At the moment... My Sony headphones have more bass!