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dbornotdb
06-04-2004, 12:12 PM
Anyone here try to build their own one of these? I want to try, but can't find any type of references to how to figure it's design to your sub.

ramos
06-04-2004, 12:33 PM
By snail shell do you mean folded horn ? Or do you mean clam shell isobaric ? I have fooled around with both styles. The isobaric is a piece of cake. Folded horn on the other hand can be a b!tch. I'll see if I can find ya a link I remember seeing one somewhere. :)

dbornotdb
06-04-2004, 03:29 PM
Not the iso, but the type on here..... http://www.powered4sound.com/store.html ......using the parameters of your sub, how would you figure the port and the airspace needed to design this?

I have 4 - 10's just laying around and would like to try to make a box like this to surprise people when I get bored. I was looking at the video of this box with the 2- 61/2" subs and I want to try it.... http://www.shrapner.1337gamer.com/speakerporn/audiobahn6.5.wmv .

InhumanAcura
06-04-2004, 06:44 PM
Competitors that use them - 0
WR or NR set w/ them - 0

The guys who build SS's for P4S = the ghey

Nitropyro666
06-04-2004, 07:27 PM
would be nice to try them to see how they sound but wouldnt buy them at 225 for a 12'
Danny

audiolover33
06-04-2004, 08:45 PM
The guys who build SS's for P4S = the ghey..........................


***ummmm really???**** there goes my dreams !!!!!

InhumanAcura
06-04-2004, 10:22 PM
would be nice to try them to see how they sound but wouldnt buy them at 225 for a 12'
Danny

$225 for a SS = the ghey

Randy Savage
06-05-2004, 01:01 AM
They boast mediocre numbers with low power...what I don't understand is why they haven't faced the sensor with high power, if they want to prove anything...

MazdaSpeed99
06-05-2004, 03:11 AM
They boast mediocre numbers with low power...what I don't understand is why they haven't faced the sensor with high power, if they want to prove anything...

Sorry but P4S enclosures are worth it, these guys are amazing sorry but you know nothing. :readytogo

supa_c
06-05-2004, 03:15 AM
They boast mediocre numbers with low power...what I don't understand is why they haven't faced the sensor with high power, if they want to prove anything...
true that, lets see maby 3000+w or so :)
225$ + shipping!

dbornotdb
06-05-2004, 11:08 AM
I didn't ask if you liked them. I do not plan on competeing with them or setting any World Records. I just wanted to make one for a 10 to try it out. Might like the sound of it, you don't know.

All they are is a form of Transmission Line enclosures, but I didn't know if they modeled them that way or modeled them ported. Their's seems to be smaller, but the 6 1/2's played good. Thats what I wanted to do, have 1 - 10" sub and compare it to my 2 - 15"s that are going in dual reflex ported boxes, (ABC).

Randy Savage
06-05-2004, 12:35 PM
Sorry but P4S enclosures are worth it, these guys are amazing sorry but you know nothing. :readytogo

You are the one that doesn't know diddly squat about a speaker, and you come here telling me I know nothing?

Get the **** out...

dbornotdb
06-05-2004, 12:49 PM
OK no fighting. Now :cuddle:

:hilarious

I have my design already and I'll try to get it done on Monday.

Randy Savage
06-05-2004, 01:07 PM
BTW: P4S won't give you a design...

And chances are, it won't sound all that great, unless you personally know the implementations behind the design...

BiaBia
06-05-2004, 06:01 PM
Lol, compare a 10 to two 15s? I dont care what 10 inch that is, it won't compare to any dual 15 configuration.

DARKHART
06-05-2004, 09:32 PM
OK no fighting. Now :cuddle:

:hilarious

I have my design already and I'll try to get it done on Monday.
Putting all the unecessary arguing aside, where did you get your design, I'd like to play around with this type of enclosure as well, is there a link you can provide showing the how too's and were fores to this design......thanks :D :D :D

Randy Savage
06-05-2004, 11:24 PM
Lol, compare a 10 to two 15s? I dont care what 10 inch that is, it won't compare to any dual 15 configuration.

Nate Munson was doing 169.x with a single 10 ;)

BiaBia
06-06-2004, 01:11 AM
wtf m8!!!!!!

helotaxi
06-06-2004, 01:31 AM
I remeber one years ago with a single XTR8 running off a Targa amp (yes one of those POS's) and it sounded oh so sweet and was pretty loud considering it wasn't getting much power at all and was only a single 8. It wasn't as loud as the dual 8 6th order bandpass the shop built but I mean come on how can you compete with *2* 8s? :D

mavrix
06-06-2004, 01:39 AM
Lol, compare a 10 to two 15s? I dont care what 10 inch that is, it won't compare to any dual 15 configuration.

*beats a dead joke lifeless*

...What about a dual funkypup configuration?

Acidburn
06-06-2004, 01:43 AM
but funky pups only come in 6 packs...

Fitz
06-06-2004, 02:24 AM
what makes an isobaric enclosure isobaric and a snail shell a snail shell? i've heard of them, just never seen them. and has anyone seen someone use a bandpass for comps.. i heard that they can be tuned the loudest but it'll sound like crap...

helotaxi
06-06-2004, 02:16 PM
Isobaric means "same pressure". Basically two drivers are coupled with a chamber of constant pressure between them. The effect is that the two drivers act as a single driver with half the Vas and half the efficiency of a single driver. It let's you use an enclosure half the size of one required for a single driver but you need twice the power to get the same output. With most modern car subs, this is not needed as most of them work in a really small box anyway. There are several ways to physically construct an isobaric configuration with the most common being the two subs mounted face to face and wired out of phase to one another so that they move together and the pressure and vloume between them stays constant. This was called a "clamshell" configuration.

A snailshell is a transmission line enclosure where the transmission line is wrapped around itself so that if it were cut to a cross section it would look like the spiral of a snail's shell.

As far as a bandpass for comps, they are out there. As for them sounding like crap, any purpose built SPL enclosure will sound like crap, not just a bandpass. Bandpasses gained a bad rep as a result of the proliferation of crappy, thrown together, pre-fab, one-size-fits-none boxes that came about in the mid 90's that are still pretty common at places like Circuit City and Best Buy.

Fitz
06-06-2004, 02:32 PM
ahhh.. cool. I'm still not sure how one would go about building a snailshell.. but it sounds pretty cool.. what are the snail advantages? Also, will bandpass hit harder than ported?

helotaxi
06-06-2004, 03:02 PM
Search for transmission line enclosures on google to find some guidance on snailshells.

Bandpasses are very time consuming to tune. Much more so than ported. If you manage to get one perfect for the combination of driver car and enclosure placement, then it will be hella loud. If you are off just a bit it will **** horribly.

dbornotdb
06-06-2004, 03:35 PM
I spent about 3 hours after I posted this topic searching and came up with this.... The Snail Shell is just a type of Transmission Design. If built properly, it can have it's benifits, but it can be quite complex. This is the best site I found with design help.... http://www.t-linespeakers.org/index.html ......and I might try one Monday for a 10.

Randy Savage
06-07-2004, 12:34 AM
Maybe someone finally cracked the Snailshell design :)

That would be nice, they wouldn't be able to charge $45 grand for a friggin box anymore...:)

helotaxi
06-07-2004, 08:26 PM
Transmission line speakers are nothing new. They require a lot of work to tune and they don't computer model well. You can do the work and pull your hair out and waste a ton of MDF trying to make you own or you can pay someone else to do it. As long as there are people willing to pay, they will be able to charge that much.

Randy Savage
06-07-2004, 08:41 PM
I know the basic layout of a TL enclosure, but apparently these snailshells aren't exactly that, or so I've been told...

InhumanAcura
06-07-2004, 09:04 PM
They boast mediocre numbers with low power...what I don't understand is why they haven't faced the sensor with high power, if they want to prove anything...

I couldnt have said it better....I wish they would go out and actually put up some #'s and stop making ghey little videos and talking about how much they know.

$16.99 (4'x8' sheet of MDF) + $1.89 (liquid nails) + $200.00 (For some obnoxious little nerd to designs and build it) + $5.xx (coarse thread drywall screws) = $225.00 + shipping

You tell me where the equation goes wrong.....(besides the math and "s" after design)

monte_carlo97
06-07-2004, 09:16 PM
i am confused how do they work?

helotaxi
06-07-2004, 09:21 PM
I know the basic layout of a TL enclosure, but apparently these snailshells aren't exactly that, or so I've been told...
The typical TL is a folded design. The snailshell are more of a spiral wrapped design. Same theory behind both and both equally trial and error in their implementation.

DBfan187
06-07-2004, 09:21 PM
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/803/snailshell.jpg

ShRapNeR
06-07-2004, 09:28 PM
but funky pups only come in 6 packs...

but that dosen't mean you have to use all 6 :)

you could sell 4 to your friends and make profit or something.

InhumanAcura
06-07-2004, 09:32 PM
but that dosen't mean you have to use all 6 :)

you could sell 4 to your friends and make profit or something.

Hella-profit that is..

geolemon
06-08-2004, 12:38 AM
You need the other four as replacements.
Believe me.
:D

dbornotdb
06-08-2004, 01:19 AM
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/803/snailshell.jpg

Exactly. Who's box is that by the way? How did it sound?

ramos
06-08-2004, 08:24 AM
Looks like a folded horn to me, and I experienced the same thing as mr. Jmac I built exactly by the numbers sounded like a$$. Then after some tweaking and playing around got it to sound a little better. :)

violator5spd
06-08-2004, 09:53 AM
I've read some of the articles that show you how to calculate everything, but it looks to complicated. I think I might just make one someday, with no particular specs, and see how it works with some sub. I'll just make it look really confusing and then it should sound really good, right? :idea: Maybe not...but I have enough spare time to throw something together and tell you guys how much it *****.

Mizah Mar
06-08-2004, 08:04 PM
the pic of the ss box is tucked65's. he hit 140 on NTL with 2 12" pyramid hyperpros and pyramid 2400d at 2ohms. ss box is not a tl. its a dual coupled servo-phasing transoctave sliding resonance enclosure to where the box servo tunes the fb of chamber 1, thus the ratio of exit area to port taper controls the woofer as the fb follows the resonant f3 tuning point. <--explaination from mr. john nolte himself. i had built 2 ss boxes from random plans given by john and ran shocker ss 15's in them powered by usa-2200f's. never metered but lowend from 40-30htz is greater in those boxes than any ported box i built for them. i have built 1 "fake" shell for an re8 tuned to 38htz but didnt take into consideration a few design concepts that i recently discovered i should of added. turned out fairly well with just 100 watts of power and was audibly louder and lower than jl 10w4d4 in 1.5 cubes ported tuned to 33 with 200 watts and audiobahn awc 12d in 2.5 cubes ported tuned to 35 with 400 watts. peace, mark

Fitz
06-09-2004, 01:55 AM
**** it that's complicated.. so what box will, theoritically, make the most volume?

InhumanAcura
06-10-2004, 12:31 AM
Dual coupled servo-phasing transoctave sliding resonance enclosure = complicated ghey

Omarvelous
06-10-2004, 02:38 AM
We need to get one n disect it!! or some how hack into p4s computers and steal the data!!! I know a few guys!

DirtySchemer
06-10-2004, 02:36 PM
I built a TL for one of my old IDQ12īs. I thought it turned out pretty good. It gets nice and deep, and sounds really tight. There were about three or four websites that I used for information to help me. I canīt remember what they were, but the key to a TL is the tuning of the line should equal the speakers resonance in a sealed enclosure with the volume of the line. This gets tricky when you stuff the line with polyfill (or other materials).

Anyway, I put together a little spreadsheet to help me determine the smallest box size I can get away with and still have the thing perform like it should. When I get back to town I can send it to you. (Disclaimer: my spreadsheet could be completely off and I just got lucky with mine)

I originally put it in my car, and it sounded pretty good. Got about as low as when I used to have two of the IDQīs in there sealed, and sounded much tighter. However, I think I lost about 5 mpg because of the weight of the box. TLīs just arenīt practical for car audio. You can fit about 3 of the same subs in the same box volume and weight if you use a different enclosure design, which would probably get louder. I ended up getting a 240 watt Parts Express plate amp for my home and put my sub there.

To sum it up... TLīs are fun to play with, but they are not practical for car audio.

dbornotdb
06-11-2004, 04:01 PM
To sum it up... TLīs are fun to play with, but they are not practical for car audio.


This is my conclusion also. My box I was designing required a 6' port. For a 10" sub.

violator5spd
06-11-2004, 11:25 PM
This is my conclusion also. My box I was designing required a 6' port. For a 10" sub.

lol...that's a huge *** port :crazy: