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View Full Version : Why so many pro audio setups as compared to numerous car audio speakers?



tprj82
04-09-2014, 11:24 AM
I'm gearing up for my build and I see so many builds with like 2,3 4 or more 6 1/2 or 8 mid bass drivers and horns, Back in the day I remembered seeing like 8 6x9's or 12 6.5's why the change? Better sq out of the pro audio? better price point?

If this is the way to go what are some recommendations for like 4 mid bass and 4 tweeters? I saw on soundqubed site some what seemed reasonably priced gear
QP-MR6.5 (Sold As Pair) (Grills Not Included) (http://www.soundqubed.com/QP-MR65-Sold-As-Pair-Grills-Not-Included_p_103.html)

QP-TH25 "SuperTweeter" (Sold As Pair) (http://www.soundqubed.com/QP-TH25-SuperTweeter-Sold-As-Pair-_p_104.html)

is that worthwhile, or is there better dayton stuff from partsexpress in a close price point? just wondering I have 2 sets of soundstream components for the kicks and front doors and and I'm looking for I guess loud rear fill for the wall.

Also these will be going in the sides/ base of wall not going to build out my doors.

Thanks for any help

bbeljefe
04-09-2014, 12:05 PM
Pro audio speakers are louder because of their higher sensitivity and they can generally take more power than conventional mids. And with processing and proper placement, they can get loud and sound good while doing it.

mlstrass
04-10-2014, 03:37 AM
Regular stuff just can't keep up. I've heard set ups with 8 6.5 comp sets per doors, wasn't loud at all. Another set up with 26 Bosto Pro comp sets, again not all that loud.

The SQ stuff is very good for the price and can get quite loud. If you do 4 mids then you only need 2 tweeters....

tprj82
04-10-2014, 04:41 PM
hmmmm interesting, thanks for the input

Cliff459
04-20-2014, 02:15 PM
Regular stuff just can't keep up. I've heard set ups with 8 6.5 comp sets per doors, wasn't loud at all. Another set up with 26 Bosto Pro comp sets, again not all that loud.

The SQ stuff is very good for the price and can get quite loud. If you do 4 mids then you only need 2 tweeters....

You gave some great examples here of why "more is better" just does not apply to car audio speakers. Putting large groups of speakers together with no regard to physics is a recipe for disaster. I did concert audio for quite a few years and trust me, even when speakers are purposely designed to work together there's still a LOT of issues to sort out. The specialized EQ applied to large concert arrays is crazy and difficult to do even with the very expensive DSP processors used in that industry.

"Pro Audio" drivers are efficient (high SPL per watt of input), rugged (high power handling), and therefore require just a few units to do the job. This avoids the physics problems that come from large arrays of drivers as an attempt to achieve SPL. One thing that seems to do OK by using a "pile of speakers" is subwoofer applications, because the longer wavelengths from low frequency waves don't cancel when placed relatively close together. A 60Hz wave has a wavelength of almost 19 feet, while a 6,000 Hz one has a wavelength of 2-1/4". This means that there will be high-frequency problems even putting 6-1/2" coax speakers right next to each other.

whitedragon551
04-20-2014, 03:22 PM
The only reason to go pro audio drivers is to get loud. They wont sound good, they dont look good, etc.

d77543020
04-22-2014, 04:15 AM
pro audio is loud and cheap

SounDrive
04-22-2014, 04:23 AM
The only reason to go pro audio drivers is to get loud. They wont sound good, they dont look good, etc.

Not neccessarily true. B&C and a few other higher end PA companies make very nice sounding products. Car audio branded PA is junk, though.

whitedragon551
04-22-2014, 07:28 AM
Not neccessarily true. B&C and a few other higher end PA companies make very nice sounding products. Car audio branded PA is junk, though.

Nice for pro audio as a whole. Nice in the grand scheme of things absolutely not.

hispls
04-22-2014, 11:22 AM
You gave some great examples here of why "more is better" just does not apply to car audio speakers. Putting large groups of speakers together with no regard to physics is a recipe for disaster. I did concert audio for quite a few years and trust me, even when speakers are purposely designed to work together there's still a LOT of issues to sort out. The specialized EQ applied to large concert arrays is crazy and difficult to do even with the very expensive DSP processors used in that industry.

"Pro Audio" drivers are efficient (high SPL per watt of input), rugged (high power handling), and therefore require just a few units to do the job. This avoids the physics problems that come from large arrays of drivers as an attempt to achieve SPL. One thing that seems to do OK by using a "pile of speakers" is subwoofer applications, because the longer wavelengths from low frequency waves don't cancel when placed relatively close together. A 60Hz wave has a wavelength of almost 19 feet, while a 6,000 Hz one has a wavelength of 2-1/4". This means that there will be high-frequency problems even putting 6-1/2" coax speakers right next to each other.

Which is a big part of the reason the setups with a dozen huge mids, horns and "super" tweeters almost invariably sound like a train wreck but nobody discusses this.

SounDrive
04-22-2014, 07:10 PM
Nice for pro audio as a whole. Nice in the grand scheme of things absolutely not.

I wouldn't go that far. What about a high efficiency speaker automatically makes it sound like crap?

SounDrive
04-22-2014, 07:10 PM
Nice for pro audio as a whole. Nice in the grand scheme of things absolutely not.

I wouldn't go that far. What about a high efficiency speaker automatically makes it sound like crap?

whitedragon551
04-22-2014, 07:50 PM
I wouldn't go that far. What about a high efficiency speaker automatically makes it sound like crap?

I would. Have you ever seen a pro audio setup win a sanctioned and judged SQ event? The only reason pro audio speakers are used is for their high efficiency so they can get loud. Thats it. Pro audio mids dont cover the gap below a certain XO point that traditional car audio mids do because they arent physically designed for it. There is a huge gap of missing frequencies that arent being played. If you have your subwoofer tuned and playing above 63-80Hz (80Hz is pushing it) your doing it wrong.

SounDrive
04-22-2014, 10:52 PM
I would. Have you ever seen a pro audio setup win a sanctioned and judged SQ event? The only reason pro audio speakers are used is for their high efficiency so they can get loud. Thats it. Pro audio mids dont cover the gap below a certain XO point that traditional car audio mids do because they arent physically designed for it. There is a huge gap of missing frequencies that arent being played. If you have your subwoofer tuned and playing above 63-80Hz (80Hz is pushing it) your doing it wrong.

And if one were to do a proper 3 way front stage with a dedicated midbass that makes up for where the PA mid cannot play, what's the problem?

whitedragon551
04-22-2014, 11:01 PM
And if one were to do a proper 3 way front stage with a dedicated midbass that makes up for where the PA mid cannot play, what's the problem?

Find me 1 person that installs PA drivers that runs a proper 3 way front stage and we can continue this conversation.

Beatin'
04-23-2014, 12:04 AM
If you have your subwoofer tuned and playing above 63-80Hz (80Hz is pushing it) your doing it wrong.

whoa whoa whoa hold up there......

Show me a mid bass door speaker that can shatter your skull at 80hz like a subwoofer can and we'll continue THIS conversation....

mlstrass
04-23-2014, 03:19 AM
I would. Have you ever seen a pro audio setup win a sanctioned and judged SQ event? The only reason pro audio speakers are used is for their high efficiency so they can get loud. Thats it. Pro audio mids dont cover the gap below a certain XO point that traditional car audio mids do because they arent physically designed for it. There is a huge gap of missing frequencies that arent being played. If you have your subwoofer tuned and playing above 63-80Hz (80Hz is pushing it) your doing it wrong.

Richard Clark's GN had midbass speakers (supposedly PA mids) playing 90-500Hz...guess he was doing it wrong.

So how many world titles have you won again :crazy:

mlstrass
04-23-2014, 03:22 AM
Find me 1 person that installs PA drivers that runs a proper 3 way front stage and we can continue this conversation.

Currently running 2 1/2way front stage with PA mids, playing down to 40Hz with authority, even though my subs will do around 155db's at 60Hz....