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View Full Version : Should i replace my plastic 6.5" compontent adaptors with MDF?



MellowHype
04-07-2014, 08:49 PM
I have some MDF (3/4") left over from my sub enclosure and ive always wondered whether to replace the current speaker mounts

This is what im currently using

http://washford.scene7.com/is/image/Washford/704585?$PDP_MAIN$


and to be honest i have never been truly happy with my Alpine SPR-60c's, im just wondering if the current adapters could be causing the problem, or maybe theyre just not what i expected.

Im thinking of just duplicating those adaptors, just in MDF either 3/4 or 1/2 inch, depending on how 3/4" sits behind the door card.

appreciate any help!

bubbagumper6
04-07-2014, 08:57 PM
If you have the time and materials go for it. I wouldn't do it unless you have the right tools though (i.e. a router and jasper jig). Done correctly with the right gasketing materials I would think the wood would sound better, give a better seal, less vibrations, etc.

But just know at the end of the day the adapters may not have been your limiting factor and it may sound exactly the same.

bradl79
04-07-2014, 09:02 PM
could u just put some deadener on the plastic adapters, would that help at all

MellowHype
04-07-2014, 09:08 PM
If you have the time and materials go for it. I wouldn't do it unless you have the right tools though (i.e. a router and jasper jig). Done correctly with the right gasketing materials I would think the wood would sound better, give a better seal, less vibrations, etc.

But just know at the end of the day the adapters may not have been your limiting factor and it may sound exactly the same.

I only have access to a jigsaw, and im not the cleanest cutter lol. I think im going to give it a go and also get a pack of 2mm silent coat door deadening, as i dont want to spend too much and my car could do with less weight, only 80hp lol

MellowHype
04-07-2014, 09:09 PM
could u just put some deadener on the plastic adapters, would that help at all

there is already deadener behind the plastic, i had them fitted at a shop before so i dont know how good the stuff is but its only deadened around the speaker and plastic

bubbagumper6
04-07-2014, 09:12 PM
I only have access to a jigsaw, and im not the cleanest cutter lol. I think im going to give it a go and also get a pack of 2mm silent coat door deadening, as i dont want to spend too much and my car could do with less weight, only 80hp lol

Hey if you wanna go for it, go for it, it's good practice. Can't really hurt anything (so long as you don't cut any fingers off, haha) and if you don't like the finished product you can just throw the plastic ones back in.

MellowHype
04-07-2014, 09:22 PM
Hey if you wanna go for it, go for it, it's good practice. Can't really hurt anything (so long as you don't cut any fingers off, haha) and if you don't like the finished product you can just throw the plastic ones back in.


Yeah ill give it a go then, thanks!

Gonna go for a layer of deadener all over the door, then mdf on top, maybe another layer of deadener on the baffle

MellowHype
04-10-2014, 12:56 PM
went ahead and got some deadener (silent coat 2mm)

Should i aim to cover the speaker mount, outside of the door and the holes and use whats left over to cover any other bits??

this is what my door looks like
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img29/3713/dsc02125jo.jpg

bubbagumper6
04-10-2014, 08:59 PM
The deadener you have is a vibration damper, not a sound barrier. You use it to add mass to resonating metal panels, so don't bother trying to cover holes with it. You mainly want to put it on large flat metal pieces, especially if you can 'knock' on them and cause them to resonate.

Don has done more research on this than anyone I've ever talked to so I trust his opinion. Although he can be very difficult to order from (I've emailed him twice in the past and never gotten a response) his research and knowledge is valuable in itself. (And everything he sells can be purchased elsewhere)
Welcome to Sound Deadener Showdown | Sound Deadener Showdown (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/)

MellowHype
04-10-2014, 09:20 PM
The deadener you have is a vibration damper, not a sound barrier. You use it to add mass to resonating metal panels, so don't bother trying to cover holes with it. You mainly want to put it on large flat metal pieces, especially if you can 'knock' on them and cause them to resonate.



Ohh i thought they all did the same thing?

and ill get through that link at somepoint looks like alot of information!
Thanks

bubbagumper6
04-10-2014, 09:52 PM
Ohh i thought they all did the same thing?

and ill get through that link at somepoint looks like alot of information!
Thanks

Almost all car audio "deadener" is just vibration damper. If you're actually looking for a full sound deadening solution you have to use a combination of products. A good sound barrier for blocking unwanted noise is mass loaded vinyl (MLV), it needs to be de-coupled from whatever it's mounted to which is why you usually need some closed cell foam. Then lastly the vibration damper (your deadner) is used to eliminate resonating panels. It's all detailed in that page though, a good read.

keep_hope_alive
04-10-2014, 11:45 PM
the difficulty is the angle on the plastic adapters needs to be matched exactly. you need an airtight seal between the speaker and the door panel if you expect any midbass response out of the speakers. those giant holes in the doors prevent midbass response. the door panel is the speaker baffle and the seal between the speaker and the panel is vital.

if you decide to make them, getting an angle on the rings will be tricky.

jrdnhsnbrg
04-10-2014, 11:50 PM
I'm using the stock plastic adapters in my car, put weatherstripping between the speaker and plastic then plastic and door panel. Made a HUGE difference, just sealing off those areas.

MellowHype
04-11-2014, 10:20 AM
the difficulty is the angle on the plastic adapters needs to be matched exactly. you need an airtight seal between the speaker and the door panel if you expect any midbass response out of the speakers. those giant holes in the doors prevent midbass response. the door panel is the speaker baffle and the seal between the speaker and the panel is vital.

if you decide to make them, getting an angle on the rings will be tricky.


Okay cheers, i definitely dont have the tools to get the baffles accurate enough, so ill stick with the plastics.

So, cover over those large holes and any others, and as much as i can get behind those holes to start with. Then a layer of deadner between the speaker plastic and door, then another between the plastic and component?

calebkhill
04-11-2014, 11:29 PM
I'm hesitant to post these. This isn't the prettiest way, and these are older pictures from the past, but none the less was very effective and shows you the concept.
This is the way to mount the mid.
Basically foam sandwiched between everything.
Between baffle and door, between baffle and and speaker, between speaker and trim panel.
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a562/calebkhill/IMG_20130728_103709_zps2684b04e.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/calebkhill/media/IMG_20130728_103709_zps2684b04e.jpg.html)

Here i tried to make a ring around the speaker with foam to close the gap between speaker and trim panel. Not pretty, but it did close the gap. (That's the Exodus Anarchy by the way, great speaker)
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a562/calebkhill/IMG_20130728_103648_zps329c89eb.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/calebkhill/media/IMG_20130728_103648_zps329c89eb.jpg.html)

This is doors.
Someone above said not to cover holes with defender. Not true...

Deaden the outer door skin (the outside metal door panel. Look through the access holes you'll see the deadener)
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a562/calebkhill/IMG_20131229_140428_zps50c5c0ca.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/calebkhill/media/IMG_20131229_140428_zps50c5c0ca.jpg.html)

Cover and seal access holes with waterproof material. (I used cardboard as you can see. Bad idea. It's not waterproof. I got lucky, i checked the other day after several months and the cardboard is unaffected, still a bad idea)
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a562/calebkhill/IMG_20131229_144829_zps18b7334c.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/calebkhill/media/IMG_20131229_144829_zps18b7334c.jpg.html)
Then completely deaden.
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a562/calebkhill/IMG_20131229_152335_zps65b47ed4.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/calebkhill/media/IMG_20131229_152335_zps65b47ed4.jpg.html)

a lot of knuckle heads here will recommend minimal coverage of deadening, but your best results come from 100% coverage.

Then for fun.

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a562/calebkhill/IMG_20131229_152612_zps0dd9a233.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/calebkhill/media/IMG_20131229_152612_zps0dd9a233.jpg.html)

bumpasauras
04-12-2014, 12:42 AM
In my experience in a well damped door (yess that means inside and outside of the metal door shell) making "wood/mdf" standoff rings make the biggest difference in the response of amidbass speaker.

Did a Toyota carolla once and put a set of 385$ alpine comps in the door, I advised deadner and the customer declined he came back a week later and wanted to order some morel's because the mid bass could "not keep up with the tweet" so I said no problem and proceeded to deaden the inner and outter door shell and made standoffs outta 3/8ths mdf. When the customer came back he was blown away by how good the morels sounded and how crappy the alpines were then I gave hommie the bill and he looks over it and says damm those morels on sale?? I thought they were like 7-8 hundred dollars and I said yeah they are that's why I spent 200$ on damppner and mdf lol. He could not believe his ears lol

O
Any way damp the shizz outta your doors and make some stand offs and you won't believe the difference..

bumpasauras
04-12-2014, 12:50 AM
If you have the time and materials go for it. I wouldn't do it unless you have the right tools though (i.e. a router and jasper jig). Done correctly with the right gasketing materials I would think the wood would sound better, give a better seal, less vibrations, etc.

But just know at the end of the day the adapters may not have been your limiting factor and it may sound exactly the same.

This is very true I have gone into a "fix my mid bass" job only to find that the door was already damped with standoffs and still sounded crappy...till we started movin the speaker around and bamm fixed it with a set of sealed fiber glass renforced kicks and it made all the difference.

Usually there are 4 factors for mid/high sq. signal.power,location, and dampening/insulating

calebkhill
04-12-2014, 12:59 AM
This is very true I have gone into a "fix my mid bass" job only to find that the door was already damped with standoffs and still sounded crappy...till we started movin the speaker around and bamm fixed it with a set of sealed fiber glass renforced kicks and it made all the difference.

Usually there are 4 factors for mid/high sq. signal.power,location, and dampening/insulating

Lol. Kicks done properly trumps doors done "properly" all day.
With a door you just can't seal it like a kick panel. The door will always be an over sized, leaky box

bumpasauras
04-12-2014, 01:15 AM
I just wish I was better at makeing them

calebkhill
04-12-2014, 07:42 AM
I'm on my 3rd set lol

keep_hope_alive
04-13-2014, 11:27 AM
a plunge router, upcut spiral bit, and a circle jig allows you to make perfect mounting rings.

keep_hope_alive
04-13-2014, 11:39 AM
mounting base
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/0526121409.jpg

hurricane nuts and a MDF ring (coated in resin).
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/accorddoormidbass007.jpg

Green Glue between ring and base
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/accorddoormidbass009.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/accorddoormidbass004.jpg

Speakers mounted
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/accorddoormidbass012.jpg


Other speakers used:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/2013%20Upgrade/accordmille003.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/IMG_20130414_162516_345.jpg

Foam around front to seal against door panel
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/2013%20Upgrade/accordmille005.jpg

keep_hope_alive
04-13-2014, 11:46 AM
in order to control the rear wave from a speaker and lower reverberation inside a hollow door, i use pvc encased fiberglass absorption. i've seen people use foams or polyfill but those have issues. foams aren't absorptive enough (especially if they are closed cell). polyfill isn't absorptive much as-is. the doors get wet so any fibrous material will hold water = growth and smells.

in architectural acoustics, we use pvc encased fiberglass batt to cheaply add a lot of absorption to a room.

i started with 1 mil PVC sheeting - it is normally used as a drop cloth for painting. it was stupid cheap, like $3 for a roll. i have some fiberglass batt insulation as well. fiberglass batt is one of the absolute best materials for sound absorption. the concern is that you don't want it getting wet. moving forward, i may use UltraTouch insulation just to alleviate the issues working with fiberglass. rigid fiberglass panels are another option and they alleviate issues with the bags being loose.

i measured my doors, they have two metal tubes that provide structural strength. i will fit absorption between these. if i had 2" thick bags, they wouldn't interfere with the window. my doors were already sealed up, luckily i used several smaller panels to cover the gap, so i just cut and peeled one of them back:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/doorfiberglassbags001.jpg

i needed 6" tall, 30" long, and 2" thick bags. i cut out 18" tall by 33" long sheets of PVC.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/doorfiberglassbags004.jpg

i wrapped and compressed it for covering. i used 3M Duct Packing Tape to create the seal.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/doorfiberglassbags007.jpg

i made three of them for the passenger door
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/doorfiberglassbags008.jpg

then i placed them and used aluminum foil tape to hold them in place between the bars
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/doorfiberglassbags012.jpg



the window guide came down in the middle. this was a snag/tear possibility. so i covered that portion with aluminum foil tape to protect it.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/doorfiberglassbags009.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/doorfiberglassbags013.jpg

all done, 100% coverage along the entire outer door skin, with a fourth smaller bag stuffed up near the hinge airspace
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/doorfiberglassbags014.jpg

closed up with a few layers
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/doorfiberglassbags015.jpg

driver mounted.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/doorfiberglassbags016.jpg

calebkhill
04-13-2014, 12:05 PM
Dammit KHA

MellowHype
04-13-2014, 01:36 PM
Great work!
I went ahead to day and covered any holes, as much of the outerskin as i could and just stopped there. The speaker already had dynamat behind the plastic so i didnt change anything there.
Only got one door done and i cant tell how much of a difference it made as my tweeter fell out of place.

One thing im stuck with now, my tweeter detached as the sealant has split, my tweeter sits something like this but with a load of silicone around it to hold it in place

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd470/mills8088/tweet.jpg

Can i go and use any sealant to stick it back in place? i remembered reading about letting Caulk dry before mounting a sub in a box as caulk gives off bad fumes when curing, is this true? Do i need a solvent free adhesive?
If not ive got a few different silicones i could use

calebkhill
04-13-2014, 03:07 PM
If whatever sealant you use won't damage the speaker and will hold it firmly, i don't see it being a problem. Brought straight to you from captain obvious lol

MellowHype
04-13-2014, 09:14 PM
If whatever sealant you use won't damage the speaker and will hold it firmly, i don't see it being a problem. Brought straight to you from captain obvious lol

Lol yeah i had guessed that much

Just wondering if any sealants can actually cause damage because of the fumes it lets off. Probably just gonna go ahead and try caulk tomorow.

bubbagumper6
04-14-2014, 03:18 PM
Someone above said not to cover holes with defender. Not true...

I didn't say he shouldn't cover those holes, I said he shouldn't cover them with deadener, because that's not what it's designed for. It's most effective application is adding mass to resonating panels so they no longer resonate. It's not the best sound barrier and tends to be very fragile when applied over a large area with nothing to support it from behind. It may have response benefits from sealing the airspace however the fragility aspect is still there.

calebkhill
04-14-2014, 07:56 PM
I didn't say he shouldn't cover those holes, I said he shouldn't cover them with deadener, because that's not what it's designed for. It's most effective application is adding mass to resonating panels so they no longer resonate. It's not the best sound barrier and tends to be very fragile when applied over a large area with nothing to support it from behind. It may have response benefits from sealing the airspace however the fragility aspect is still there.

We're in the page then.
Using it asa sound barrier isn't effective, but sealing the audience with it .

bradl79
04-14-2014, 08:12 PM
I'm hesitant to post these. This isn't the prettiest way, and these are older pictures from the past, but none the less was very effective and shows you the concept.
This is the way to mount the mid.
Basically foam sandwiched between everything.
Between baffle and door, between baffle and and speaker, between speaker and trim panel.
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a562/calebkhill/IMG_20130728_103709_zps2684b04e.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/calebkhill/media/IMG_20130728_103709_zps2684b04e.jpg.html)

Here i tried to make a ring around the speaker with foam to close the gap between speaker and trim panel. Not pretty, but it did close the gap. (That's the Exodus Anarchy by the way, great speaker)
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a562/calebkhill/IMG_20130728_103648_zps329c89eb.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/calebkhill/media/IMG_20130728_103648_zps329c89eb.jpg.html)

This is doors.
Someone above said not to cover holes with defender. Not true...

Deaden the outer door skin (the outside metal door panel. Look through the access holes you'll see the deadener)
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a562/calebkhill/IMG_20131229_140428_zps50c5c0ca.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/calebkhill/media/IMG_20131229_140428_zps50c5c0ca.jpg.html)

Cover and seal access holes with waterproof material. (I used cardboard as you can see. Bad idea. It's not waterproof. I got lucky, i checked the other day after several months and the cardboard is unaffected, still a bad idea)
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a562/calebkhill/IMG_20131229_144829_zps18b7334c.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/calebkhill/media/IMG_20131229_144829_zps18b7334c.jpg.html)
Then completely deaden.
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a562/calebkhill/IMG_20131229_152335_zps65b47ed4.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/calebkhill/media/IMG_20131229_152335_zps65b47ed4.jpg.html)

a lot of knuckle heads here will recommend minimal coverage of deadening, but your best results come from 100% coverage.

Then for fun.

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a562/calebkhill/IMG_20131229_152612_zps0dd9a233.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/calebkhill/media/IMG_20131229_152612_zps0dd9a233.jpg.html)

Those speakers look familiar Caleb lol

calebkhill
04-15-2014, 08:38 AM
Those speakers look familiar Caleb lol

I'd like to use them as subs but idk how they would do.

MellowHype
04-18-2014, 02:08 PM
Just got done sealing the doors as best as i could with what i had, didnt take any pictures though.

the doors outer skin is covered enough to make it sound good knocking it from anywhere on the outide.
I then used the rest and sealed up the two big holes and any other little holes that werent needed.

Is it safe to assume i can run my high pass filter a little lower now? before i had it set to 100 and had no bass coming from them, just set it to 75-80 and they are sounding much better.

i feel like i might have done damage to them though as when i first got the comps (Alpine spr-60c) i turned the gain up 3/4 (although i dont think they sounded distorted i had the max volume at 17/35) and set the eq to boost low frequencys. I remember them having really punchy bass which i havent seen for a while.