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View Full Version : Why are sundown subs so underrated?



NuckinFutz
12-03-2013, 09:16 AM
Its very aggravating trying to decide which subs to buy. I'm looking at 2600-3000 watts arms from my Amps. I want the x series but I don't know if I have enough power because with the Sa's people are like "they really come alive on 1200 watts." I don't have 4k watts + of power if the x's are the same way.

hispls
12-03-2013, 09:40 AM
Legitimate companies rate things so that they won't come back blown and they consider a power level that's pretty much retard proof. That way if somebody breaks a woofer they KNOW it was abused unless there's a really obvious mechanical defect from manufacturing.

IMO if you need to ask this question you have no business running more than rated power to a woofer and you probably should stick to the ones that honestly rate things.

BoomBoxStereo
12-03-2013, 10:57 AM
IMO if you need to ask this question you have no business running more than rated power to a woofer and you probably should stick to the ones that honestly rate things.

x2

BoomBoxStereo
12-03-2013, 11:00 AM
Its very aggravating trying to decide which subs to buy. I'm looking at 2600-3000 watts arms from my Amps. I want the x series but I don't know if I have enough power because with the Sa's people are like "they really come alive on 1200 watts." I don't have 4k watts + of power if the x's are the same way.

it's not aggravating if you know what you're doing..... you gave me crap for selling my obsidians for $110 + $40 shipping each but can't figure out how much wattage to give a sub? credibility gone.

Chriszle
12-03-2013, 11:13 AM
Run the X's. They will be just fine in a properly designed box.

Jeffdachef
12-03-2013, 11:15 AM
idk what your talking about but if your running 1250 actual rms after accounting impedance rise and voltage drops, those Xs will get down hella hard in a proper enclosure. People say you need more power to come alive because they have horrible impedance rise or low voltages and cannot make their amp's rated rms at 1 ohm. More then likely if your actually overpowering them by a few hundred watts you'd probably wont even notice the difference.

NuckinFutz
12-03-2013, 12:19 PM
idk what your talking about but if your running 1250 actual rms after accounting impedance rise and voltage drops, those Xs will get down hella hard in a proper enclosure. People say you need more power to come alive because they have horrible impedance rise or low voltages and cannot make their amp's rated rms at 1 ohm. More then likely if your actually overpowering them by a few hundred watts you'd probably wont even notice the difference.

Okay. Thank you for an actual answer to my question.

NuckinFutz
12-03-2013, 12:24 PM
it's not aggravating if you know what you're doing..... you gave me crap for selling my obsidians for $110 + $40 shipping each but can't figure out how much wattage to give a sub? credibility gone.

I know what I'm doing. But I have no experience with sundown subs. If they're not gonna perform best on there rms rating. Then I don't want them. If I'm supposed to give them double there power for them to actually perform properly then I don't want them. What's your input big girl. Should I run two phoenix gold ti1500s to a pair of x's or would they want more power.

supereikenator
12-03-2013, 12:37 PM
They are forum boners, you say anything that might sounds even slightly against them you'll get attacked. I totally understand what you are saying man. I was wondering if 1500 watts would be enough for my HDC3(when it was rated at 1000rms.) I knew what I was doing, but everyone knows HDC3's take way more than rated.

jrdnhsnbrg
12-03-2013, 12:39 PM
I know what I'm doing. But I have no experience with sundown subs. If they're not gonna perform best on there rms rating. Then I don't want them. If I'm supposed to give them double there power for them to actually perform properly then I don't want them. What's your input big girl. Should I run two phoenix gold ti1500s to a pair of x's or would they want more power.

Go with the X's, you can always add more power later without having to upgrade the subs

NuckinFutz
12-03-2013, 01:06 PM
Legitimate companies rate things so that they won't come back blown and they consider a power level that's pretty much retard proof. That way if somebody breaks a woofer they KNOW it was abused unless there's a really obvious mechanical defect from manufacturing.

IMO if you need to ask this question you have no business running more than rated power to a woofer and you probably should stick to the ones that honestly rate things.

I wasn't wanting to overpower them I was really wondering if they'd perform great on they're rated power.

BoomBoxStereo
12-03-2013, 03:11 PM
I know what I'm doing. But I have no experience with sundown subs. If they're not gonna perform best on there rms rating. Then I don't want them. If I'm supposed to give them double there power for them to actually perform properly then I don't want them. What's your input big girl. Should I run two phoenix gold ti1500s to a pair of x's or would they want more power.

they are given a conservative rating so if they blow, sundown knows it was user error. if you get a sundown sa-15 and give it 600 watts and destroy it, it's your fault as that sub can handle twice that. my obsidians (pretty much the sundown equivalent minus a couple things) were getting 1200 watts each and loved it. i had a sundown X18 on a SAZ-2000 and it tickled it. the X series would be happy with 2.5-3k.

---------- Post added at 02:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------


I wasn't wanting to overpower them I was really wondering if they'd perform great on they're rated power.

yes they perform fine on rated power but if you want them to really flop, give them over RMS ratings. again if you know what you're doing you won't have any issues. thermal or mechanical.

BoomBoxStereo
12-03-2013, 03:14 PM
idk what your talking about but if your running 1250 actual rms after accounting impedance rise and voltage drops, those Xs will get down hella hard in a proper enclosure. People say you need more power to come alive because they have horrible impedance rise or low voltages and cannot make their amp's rated rms at 1 ohm. More then likely if your actually overpowering them by a few hundred watts you'd probably wont even notice the difference.

you can easily feed one of those subs more than RMS. i've done it, and i don't have horrible voltage drop. you can notice a slight difference when adding 500 watts in the lower range of power i.e. 2000 watts to 2500 watts. i noticed that kick drums were a bit punchier and my bass dug a little deeper.

resonate
12-03-2013, 03:14 PM
yes they perform fine on rated power but if you want them to really flop, give them over RMS ratings. again if you know what you're doing you won't have any issues. thermal or mechanical.

OP, this is beyond incredibly important. You need to know that your signal is clean and your sub will handle the power in the enclosure it's being run in. If you're not positive, be conservative until you're sure about what you're doing. A dirty signal can easily drive a sub past it's thermal limits, and the wrong enclosure can cause mechanical failure. Sundown makes a beefy product, but every sub has it's limit.

NuckinFutz
12-03-2013, 03:19 PM
they are given a conservative rating so if they blow, sundown knows it was user error. if you get a sundown sa-15 and give it 600 watts and destroy it, it's your fault as that sub can handle twice that. my obsidians (pretty much the sundown equivalent minus a couple things) were getting 1200 watts each and loved it. i had a sundown X18 on a SAZ-2000 and it tickled it. the X series would be happy with 2.5-3k.

---------- Post added at 02:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------



yes they perform fine on rated power but if you want them to really flop, give them over RMS ratings. again if you know what you're doing you won't have any issues. thermal or mechanical.

Sweet. Guess I'll go with them then. Thanks.

Do you have metallic colors for stickers?

myjaja
12-03-2013, 03:23 PM
I wasn't wanting to overpower them I was really wondering if they'd perform great on they're rated power.

I have an ns-1 which is 6500 watts rms on my 12" zv4's. They're taking that amp pretty well which is way above what the subs are rated at. But I also put another amp which did a little over 2000 watts which was under powering the subs and they we're still insanely loud off that power. So my point is you'll be fine and it should get plenty loud giving them rated power. You'll be happy with those x's with a good efficient enclosure.

skylineTT
12-03-2013, 11:38 PM
your 1250 per sub would be perfect. They are built to perform best at their rated power level but are also built to take the extra abuse of more power.

Tantricz
12-03-2013, 11:43 PM
The x series from sundown was poorly built.. My x12 ripped apart on me

Side Show
12-04-2013, 12:00 AM
^^ pics?

myjaja
12-04-2013, 12:15 AM
The x series from sundown was poorly built.. My x12 ripped apart on me

Nice name and I don't see them falling part easily unless they were abused or you're talking about the glue issue that was resolved already.

Silverado SS
12-04-2013, 12:45 AM
Ugghhh the glue issue but huggers get pissed when I bring it up. King of R&D

hispls
12-04-2013, 01:41 AM
I wasn't wanting to overpower them I was really wondering if they'd perform great on they're rated power.

Yes and without fear of breaking anything. Your gains from over-powering are minimal while increasing the risk of breaking something exponentially.


you can easily feed one of those subs more than RMS. i've done it, and i don't have horrible voltage drop. you can notice a slight difference when adding 500 watts in the lower range of power i.e. 2000 watts to 2500 watts. i noticed that kick drums were a bit punchier and my bass dug a little deeper.

LOL. 20% increase of power will be inaudible. If you gained noticeable it's because you probably replaced a 2000W amp that didn't make rated power with a 2500W amp that makes around 3K.

hispls
12-04-2013, 01:43 AM
Ugghhh the glue issue but huggers get pissed when I bring it up. King of R&D

Yeah, when you tell China to make a sub for 200$ that would cost 700 to make in USA that's what you get. The race to zero. Still a lot of woofer for the money and actually something that isn't just off-the-shelf parts. Props to Jacob for pushing some different designs.

TaylorFade
12-04-2013, 02:50 AM
Dude... I had my SA12 on a Zapco 26k at .125 ohms all day every day and it was barely moving that thing! THEY CAN TAKE SOME POWER!!! YOU'RE GONNA NEED A PAIR OF TARAMPS 50K'S FOR X'S DUDE!!!

av83
12-04-2013, 03:31 AM
Dude... I had my SA12 on a Zapco 26k at .125 ohms all day every day and it was barely moving that thing! THEY CAN TAKE SOME POWER!!! YOU'RE GONNA NEED A PAIR OF TARAMPS 50K'S FOR X'S DUDE!!!

http://www.troll.me/images/grinning-emperor-palpatine/yes-yes-come-to-the-dark-side.jpg

TaylorFade
12-04-2013, 03:36 AM
Facebook idiocy is making me bitter tonight. Lol.

av83
12-04-2013, 04:14 AM
Facebook idiocy is making me bitter tonight. Lol.

**** Failbook, lol. I never got into so many random, meaningless, arguments before in my life. Glad I deleted it.

TaylorFade
12-04-2013, 04:26 AM
**** Failbook, lol. I never got into so many random, meaningless, arguments before in my life. Glad I deleted it.

FB Car Audio Q&A is the most riduculous group in history.

Latest discussion... "which sub will get lower? A 10" or a 15"?"

Not louder at a given frequency, mind you. Just... which one will play the lower frequency regardless of output.

Oh... and I just heard that a DDZ can take 10k daily.

Bigbodylexus
12-04-2013, 05:47 AM
The x series from sundown was poorly built.. My x12 ripped apart on me

I could see why this quote would irritate someone. To say a sub was poorly built because of a issue with glue is incorrect. That's like saying Toyota builds a crappy car because one of the parts they buy and use in the Camry are faulty. To this date, I have lost 3 SA-12's in my demo vehicle due to motors shifting. I spoke with Sundown Audio and was informed they did have a bad batch of subs. They are handling the situation and so far I am pleased. This incident has not changed my opinion of the SA series subs. I still believe the SA Series subs are some of the best subs in their category. When I upgrade to the X-12's my starting point to power them will be the rated power, will I give them more? absolutely.

momax_powers
12-04-2013, 07:39 AM
Forum boner?...... Sundown must be stocked with viagra if the "boner is lasting....how many years now" smh

tommydh
12-04-2013, 08:44 AM
Ok I dont want to be one of the aholes that just bash. I have the SD-2 10 I did have 2 on a BRZ-1700.1 currently running a single 10 on RF T-1000.1bd at 2 ohms that amp is rated at 750 @ 2 ohms and the sub is handling it great I have heard a lot of the same that they handle way more but I notice in vids they usually are for sorter periods of time. Im sure they will be a great sub at RMS or little more than. I would rather a company give you a true RMS rating then an inflated max wattage that the subs handle for a millisecond before blowing. If you put a clean true 1250 or so on them I'm sure you will be happy.

hispls
12-04-2013, 09:43 AM
Oh... and I just heard that a DDZ can take 10k daily.

Not much more ridiculous than most of the power handling claims coming out around this place. Many of them by the manufacturers. That's OK. The kind of knucklehead that has 2000$ for the MSRP either knows what he is doing or can afford recones. Also the kind of person that thinks that that buys a 10K amp is either buying 10K that is actually about 2K or is trying to run on stock electrical and will blow up the amp before the sub fails.

BoomBoxStereo
12-05-2013, 12:35 AM
Yes and without fear of breaking anything. Your gains from over-powering are minimal while increasing the risk of breaking something exponentially.



LOL. 20% increase of power will be inaudible. If you gained noticeable it's because you probably replaced a 2000W amp that didn't make rated power with a 2500W amp that makes around 3K.

saz-2000 to saz-2500?

i bought the 2500 for a steal as a temporary amp but just ended up keeping it for a little while.

---------- Post added at 11:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 PM ----------


Sweet. Guess I'll go with them then. Thanks.

Do you have metallic colors for stickers?

a few, what were you looking for?

NuckinFutz
12-05-2013, 12:38 AM
saz-2000 to saz-2500?

i bought the 2500 for a steal as a temporary amp but just ended up keeping it for a little while.

---------- Post added at 11:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 PM ----------



a few, what were you looking for?

Do you have silver and metallic blue?

hispls
12-05-2013, 01:05 AM
saz-2000 to saz-2500?

i bought the 2500 for a steal as a temporary amp but just ended up keeping it for a little while.

---------- Post added at 11:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 PM ----------



a few, what were you looking for?

So what's that on the meter that you can supposedly hear the difference? Should be well under 1dB for that little difference in power.

T3mpest
12-05-2013, 03:10 AM
So what's that on the meter that you can supposedly hear the difference? Should be well under 1dB for that little difference in power.

Yup. One thing I wish people would understand is that subs really don't "come alive" on xxx amount of watts. As you increase power you increase how loud things get, double power is 3db's. If anything as you go up in power, subs actually begin to perform less than you'd expect for the increase due to thermal compression, along with BL compression and possibly excursion limit issues. If your sub is hitting 140 with 1000 watts to it, the BEST you can expect by going to 2000 watts is 143, it's not going to magically come alive and hit a 148.3 out of nowhere. Power subs the best you can, **** the "ratings" and get as long as it gets loud enough for you, don't worry about it.

sundownz
12-05-2013, 12:22 PM
The "forum boner" talk really makes me laugh at this point... over 7 years into it.

As do individuals who cannot understand concepts as simple as ironing out new product launches and simple mathematics such as "percentages"

---

But to address to original post. We rate all of our subs at a level where we feel it would be nearly impossible to damage them. Most failures you see from our line are the result of amplifier 2x or more bigger than we suggest using. These are obviously not a warranty of production issue.

Any failures related to a production issue are covered under warranty.

BoomBoxStereo
12-05-2013, 08:28 PM
Do you have silver and metallic blue?

I have silver... And gloss blue

BoomBoxStereo
12-05-2013, 08:30 PM
So what's that on the meter that you can supposedly hear the difference? Should be well under 1dB for that little difference in power.

It probably is. But I noticed that kick drums just have a little more punch to them.

hispls
12-05-2013, 11:20 PM
It probably is. But I noticed that kick drums just have a little more punch to them.

Crossover point would be my first suspect there.

Spooney
12-05-2013, 11:43 PM
**** Failbook, lol. I never got into so many random, meaningless, arguments before in my life. Glad I deleted it.

You stole Failbook from me you bastard LOL.

av83
12-06-2013, 01:45 AM
You stole Failbook from me you bastard LOL.

I told you I would, too! Love it, lol.

Slo_Ride
12-06-2013, 01:56 AM
huh?