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Preston019
11-13-2013, 11:40 PM
Hey guys,

I'm making my first ever sub enclosure for 2 10" subs and I'm wondering how accurate I need to be to manufacturers suggestion.

-Manufacturer says I need 0.65 cu ft for each sub in a sealed enclosure.
-The displacement of each sub is 0.052 cu ft.

-I'm using 3/4 MDF
-The box I'm thinking about building will be 26in x 14in x 10in
-There will be an internal divider between the subs, giving them their own chamber, made out of 3/4 MDF
-I was planning on putting 6 braces total in the enclosure (3 in each chamber) made out of 1in x 1in dowel: 2 of them will be 11.875in and 4 will be 8.5in.

So for the total volume of airspace in the enclosure is 1.32246 cu ft and the total volume needed for the subs (combined) is 1.3 cu ft. Making a difference of ~0.022464 cu ft

Will these measurements be close enough, or should it be closer to 1.3 cu ft?

Again, I'm a newbie and I've never built a sub enclosure before.

azmcrae
11-13-2013, 11:47 PM
Sealed boxes are much more forgiving of slight variances in air volume compared to other alignments.

Based on what you provided, I believe you will be fine.

Preston019
11-13-2013, 11:50 PM
Sealed boxes are much more forgiving of slight variances in air volume compared to other alignments.

Based on what you provided, I believe you will be fine.

This is probably a stupid question, but how forgiving would you say they were in general? As in, how much can you be off and still be okay?

Beatin'
11-14-2013, 12:18 AM
This is probably a stupid question, but how forgiving would you say they were in general? As in, how much can you be off and still be okay?

you can be off by cubic foot after cubic foot and still be OK.

™Caveman
11-14-2013, 12:23 AM
Go for ported. Your ears will thank you.

Preston019
11-14-2013, 12:26 AM
you can be off by cubic foot after cubic foot and still be OK.

I can be off as in over by many cubic feet? Or can I be under by a cubic foot and still be okay?

I'm just wondering because I have my subs in a prefab box now and it's only ~1 cu ft. and they don't hit that hard or sound super swell either. So if I go to at least recommended size will they hit harder/sound better?

Preston019
11-14-2013, 12:28 AM
Go for ported. Your ears will think you.

Well, I would, but I'm trying to keep it low cost and I've never built a box, let alone a ported box, and I don't feel like dolling out extra dough.

™Caveman
11-14-2013, 12:30 AM
If you have all the tools to build a sealed a few more bucks (if that)will definitely yield a ported. There's a couple doods here that will design on for you for freeeeeee! You probably have all you need already.

Preston019
11-14-2013, 12:33 AM
If you have all the tools to build a sealed a few more bucks (if that)will definitely yield a ported. There's a couple doods here that will design on for you for freeeeeee! You probably have all you need already.

:eek: Do you know who they are, or will I just have to post another thread asking?

Beatin'
11-14-2013, 12:34 AM
I can be off as in over by many cubic feet? Or can I be under by a cubic foot and still be okay?

I'm just wondering because I have my subs in a prefab box now and it's only ~1 cu ft. and they don't hit that hard or sound super swell either. So if I go to at least recommended size will they hit harder/sound better?

what kind of subs are they? what amp do you have?

If the manufacturer says .65cf is the way to go, you probably can put them in a box anywhere from .50 to 2cf big. The bigger the box, the stronger the sub will play below Fb.

Preston019
11-14-2013, 12:36 AM
what kind of subs are they? what amp do you have?

If the manufacturer says .65cf is the way to go, you probably can put them in a box anywhere from .50 to 2cf big. The bigger the box, the stronger the sub will play below Fb.

2 of these subs:
Kenwood - KFC-XW10 (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Car_Entertainment/eXcelon/Subwoofers/KFC-XW10)

And this amp:
Kenwood - X500-1 (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Car_Entertainment/eXcelon/Amplifiers/X500-1)

™Caveman
11-14-2013, 12:37 AM
Enclosure Design & Construction Help (http://www.caraudio.com/forums/enclosure-design-construction-help/)

Search ....

Preston019
11-14-2013, 12:41 AM
Enclosure Design & Construction Help (http://www.caraudio.com/forums/enclosure-design-construction-help/)

Search ....

I listen to mostly Rock/Metal and some EDM, what would be a recommended tuning frequency? 35Hz?

Beatin'
11-14-2013, 12:45 AM
2 of these subs:
Kenwood - KFC-XW10 (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Car_Entertainment/eXcelon/Subwoofers/KFC-XW10)

And this amp:
Kenwood - X500-1 (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Car_Entertainment/eXcelon/Amplifiers/X500-1)

2 10's sealed on 500wrms is not going to hit hard at all. Though in smaller vehicles they certainly can, due to the cabin gain.

the other guy is right, if you have the room, ported may be a better option.

BTW. I just graphed out your subs in WinISD and it shows that in a sealed box, the kenwood xw10 needs 3.4cf to be maximally flat. Putting them in a 0.65cf box results in an increase of output in the upper bass frequencies, but a MASSIVE loss of output below Fb.

Based on what I've seen, I would recommend at minimum a 2cf box for each sub. Even better if ported.

™Caveman
11-14-2013, 12:48 AM
I listen to mostly Rock/Metal and some EDM, what would be a recommended tuning frequency? 35Hz?

Doing a lil research will help you out a lil more than getting every question you have answered by 15 diff people. Take your time and do it right.

Preston019
11-14-2013, 12:51 AM
2 10's sealed on 500wrms is not going to hit hard at all. Though in smaller vehicles they certainly can, due to the cabin gain.

the other guy is right, if you have the room, ported may be a better option.

I know it won't hit hard, compared to many other subs, but I had a single 10 inch at 150 RMS and it was punching more than these 2 are. I also had 2 very under powered 12 inch subs (150 watts for 2 300 watt each sub) at one point and they still hit harder (granted they're 12 inche, not 10).

Preston019
11-14-2013, 12:53 AM
Doing a lil research will help you out a lil more than getting every question you have answered by 15 diff people. Take your time and do it right.

I've been trying to find that answer but I'm finding people are saying 33Hz and then others saying 40-45Hz. I'm guessing it's just personal taste, but I havent heard rock in a ported enclosure. YET!

Preston019
11-14-2013, 12:56 AM
2 10's sealed on 500wrms is not going to hit hard at all. Though in smaller vehicles they certainly can, due to the cabin gain.

the other guy is right, if you have the room, ported may be a better option.

BTW. I just graphed out your subs in WinISD and it shows that in a sealed box, the kenwood xw10 needs 3.4cf to be maximally flat. Putting them in a 0.65cf box results in an increase of output in the upper bass frequencies, but a MASSIVE loss of output below Fb.

Based on what I've seen, I would recommend at minimum a 2cf box for each sub. Even better if ported.

I listen to more Rock than anything, so wouldn't I want a little more in the upper bass frequencies, or is that just stupid?

Beatin'
11-14-2013, 01:05 AM
I listen to more Rock than anything, so wouldn't I want a little more in the upper bass frequencies, or is that just stupid?

It's not stupid at all. If your Rock Music has bass mostly in a 50-100hz range, then by all means do whatever to increase output in that range. In your case in particular, it seems like maybe you need more cone area and more power.

Preston019
11-14-2013, 01:09 AM
It's not stupid at all. If your Rock Music has bass mostly in a 50-100hz range, then by all means do whatever to increase output in that range. In your case in particular, it seems like maybe you need more cone area and more power.

That's what I'm thinking. But I'm trying to deal with what I have and make what I can to increase output without having to buy all new equipment.

I know I've already been told to look it up, but what would you tune a ported box to for a mix of Rock and bass heavy music, such as techno?

Also, you said 2cf each for sealed, what about ported?

™Caveman
11-14-2013, 01:18 AM
Your woofer specs call out for 1 cu ft ported per. Do that. calculate your port area tuned to 32-35 hz and you'll be fine.

Preston019
11-14-2013, 02:10 AM
Your woofer specs call out for 1 cu ft ported per. Do that. calculate your port area tuned to 32-35 hz and you'll be fine.

So could I do one like this:
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/34/2cubes32hz30sqin7cb.png/)

Just cut out two holes for the 10 inch subs instead of one big one? (It's 2cf)

jeffdachef
11-14-2013, 02:15 AM
Well, I would, but I'm trying to keep it low cost and I've never built a box, let alone a ported box, and I don't feel like dolling out extra dough.

there's people who do free enclosure designs on the site that can give you a ported box blueprint with neccessary cutout sheets and such. Makes a big difference. The bass from sealed boxes always feel anemic to me.

jeffdachef
11-14-2013, 02:23 AM
That's what I'm thinking. But I'm trying to deal with what I have and make what I can to increase output without having to buy all new equipment.

I know I've already been told to look it up, but what would you tune a ported box to for a mix of Rock and bass heavy music, such as techno?

Also, you said 2cf each for sealed, what about ported?

its gonna depend. If you tune too low, your not gonna hit anything in that music, If you tune it low enough around 30-34hz you'll have a slow roll off so you'll be hearing it but its not going to be loud or present. tuning in the 40s to 50s is a delicate situation, depending on the overall design of the port and size of the box, you can either have flat response(ideal) or a One note wonder box where it peaks hard in a very limited range. generally you'd want to tune higher if your library is mainly composed of those genres.

BTW FYI most guys on this site cant live without bass hitting 30z and below and most will recommend a low tuning. You should take matters into your own hands and download winISD learn how to use it and see the frequency response graphs for your self so you can find out what kind of sound you will be getting from your box.

av83
11-14-2013, 02:43 AM
So could I do one like this:
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/34/2cubes32hz30sqin7cb.png/)

Just cut out two holes for the 10 inch subs instead of one big one? (It's 2cf)

This one will work better with a lower power setup like yours. ImageShack - Host your every picture online for free (http://imageshack.com/i/0n3cubes35hz465sqin4wjp)

I wouldn't even consider putting them in less than 2.5 cubes with only 500 wrms on tap.

azmcrae
11-14-2013, 02:56 AM
A properly built to spec Ported box would be best but a well built Sealed box will yield very good results.
You have asked a question about a subwoofer box on an enthusiast site.
Expect a "get the most you can" response.

Preston019
11-14-2013, 12:52 PM
This one will work better with a lower power setup like yours. ImageShack - Host your every picture online for free (http://imageshack.com/i/0n3cubes35hz465sqin4wjp)

I wouldn't even consider putting them in less than 2.5 cubes with only 500 wrms on tap.

Am I still going to get punchy bass with this enclosure?

av83
11-14-2013, 01:04 PM
Am I still going to get punchy bass with this enclosure?

It should. 35 tune is great for rock music.

SounDrive
11-14-2013, 01:21 PM
2 10's sealed on 500wrms is not going to hit hard at all. Though in smaller vehicles they certainly can, due to the cabin gain.

the other guy is right, if you have the room, ported may be a better option.

BTW. I just graphed out your subs in WinISD and it shows that in a sealed box, the kenwood xw10 needs 3.4cf to be maximally flat. Putting them in a 0.65cf box results in an increase of output in the upper bass frequencies, but a MASSIVE loss of output below Fb.

Based on what I've seen, I would recommend at minimum a 2cf box for each sub. Even better if ported.

Modeling doesn't mean **** once the box goes in a car.

OP, I would personally recommend tuning around 35-40 for rock music.. Just be very careful playing any kind of music with synthetic bass. You'll want the subsonic filter on your amp around 10hz below tuning to prevent your subs from bottoming out.

DonH
11-14-2013, 01:45 PM
By far some of the worst responses in this thread about an enclosure. First off, when did a 3rd order become magically LOUDER or better than a sealed enclosure? Every sealed enclosure I build for myself always sounds amazing. Those that thing ported digs lower, you are wrong. Yes audibly they sound louder, but for near perfect audio reproduction, a sealed enclosure OR IB wins every time. To properly design the enclosure you must take into account all t/s parameters. That is what they are there for! OP if you would like some guidance and assistance please feel free to send me a private message.

DonH
11-14-2013, 01:49 PM
Modeling doesn't mean **** once the box goes in a car.

OP, I would personally recommend tuning around 35-40 for rock music.. Just be very careful playing any kind of music with synthetic bass. You'll want the subsonic filter on your amp around 10hz below tuning to prevent your subs from bottoming out.

Modeling does mean something. Are you shooting for a high +3db +6db peak at tuning for burping, or does one want to have a nice flat response, no peak for greater sound quality and musicality. Different enclosure design provide distinct roll off characteristics. You can view these by modeling. So dont say modeling does nothing.

SounDrive
11-14-2013, 01:51 PM
By far some of the worst responses in this thread about an enclosure. First off, when did a 3rd order become magically LOUDER or better than a sealed enclosure? Every sealed enclosure I build for myself always sounds amazing. Those that thing ported digs lower, you are wrong. Yes audibly they sound louder, but for near perfect audio reproduction, a sealed enclosure OR IB wins every time. To properly design the enclosure you must take into account all t/s parameters. That is what they are there for! OP if you would like some guidance and assistance please feel free to send me a private message.

I'm assuming you meant 4th order? A ported box is technically a 4th order...

Also, you're right about sealed digging lower. That's why if you're going for sub-30hz bass I'd always recommend a 4th order.. A ported box has better response right around tuning, but that's it. A ported box can, however, sound great if it is designed properly.

Silver-N-Black
11-14-2013, 02:09 PM
I'm assuming you meant 4th order? A ported box is technically a 4th order....

Doesn't it need a sealed section to be a 4th?

jeffdachef
11-14-2013, 02:10 PM
oh boy the battle of sealed vs ported again LOW END EDITION!

DonH
11-14-2013, 02:22 PM
I'm assuming you meant 4th order? A ported box is technically a 4th order...

Also, you're right about sealed digging lower. That's why if you're going for sub-30hz bass I'd always recommend a 4th order.. A ported box has better response right around tuning, but that's it. A ported box can, however, sound great if it is designed properly.

whoops hah! you are correct. But yes a ported box can sound great absolutely. I design them all the time for customers with a nice flat response. BUT In order to achieve the low end response you can get from a sealed box requires to large of an enclosure.

DonH
11-14-2013, 02:26 PM
Doesn't it need a sealed section to be a 4th?

no a ported box is a 4th order. a 4th order band pass is what you are thinking of sir. An enclosure acts as the Mass, and the port acts as another piston or spring that stores energy. They are independent of the speaker and that's why a ported box is a 4th order. Fun fact, Order, is the total number of storage components.

DonH
11-14-2013, 02:27 PM
oh boy the battle of sealed vs ported again LOW END EDITION!

Not a battle. Thats the problem with this forum, Those open to insight are thwarted away by the constant arguing in a thread.

SounDrive
11-14-2013, 03:50 PM
Not a battle. Thats the problem with this forum, Those open to insight are thwarted away by the constant arguing in a thread.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Everyone has this stigma that "ported digs lower than sealed" but they don't realize that low for me is 20-25hz... My music rarely ever includes bass notes over 45hz. If you want that kind of response from a ported box, you have to either tune stupid low (this is where PRs come in handy) or as you said, have an extremely large box that reduces the mechanical power handling of your subs.

The above is exactly why I'm likely going with a 4th order for my next build

---------- Post added at 03:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 PM ----------


Doesn't it need a sealed section to be a 4th?

4th order bass reflex = "ported"
4th order bandpass = "4th order"

neo_styles
11-14-2013, 03:53 PM
Not a battle. Thats the problem with this forum, Those open to insight are thwarted away by the constant arguing in a thread.

Simple solution, Don. Respond to EVERY enclosure question thread...

Seriously, though, you raise interesting points that I think people overlook. Question is, at what point in raising sealed enclosure size do you get before you end up experiencing diminished returns? I'm obviously asking for a rough average.

DonH
11-14-2013, 04:05 PM
Simple solution, Don. Respond to EVERY enclosure question thread...

Seriously, though, you raise interesting points that I think people overlook. Question is, at what point in raising sealed enclosure size do you get before you end up experiencing diminished returns? I'm obviously asking for a rough average.

When you say raising sealed enclosure size from what point do you mean? recommended manuf. size? Each driver has distinct parameters so its pretty hard to throw out a general "rule of thumb."

neo_styles
11-14-2013, 04:09 PM
When you say raising sealed enclosure size from what point do you mean? recommended manuf. size? Each driver has distinct parameters so its pretty hard to throw out a general "rule of thumb."

Agreed, generalizing here won't do much. Let's say you design a sealed enclosure for a...12W6 (don't know why that's the first sub to come to mind, but whatever). After plotting it in something like WinISD, you determine it needs (arbitrary number) 1 cube for that magical Qts of 0.707 (even if the manufacturer recommends less). As you start bringing enclosure size up from that point, how does efficiency and response change? Is it similar to how response is affected by an IB sub as you raise the cabin space for the backwave or do you end up risking mechanical damage to the subwoofer?

Preston019
11-14-2013, 06:30 PM
Modeling doesn't mean **** once the box goes in a car.

OP, I would personally recommend tuning around 35-40 for rock music.. Just be very careful playing any kind of music with synthetic bass. You'll want the subsonic filter on your amp around 10hz below tuning to prevent your subs from bottoming out.

The amp I have doesn't have subsonic filtering.

SounDrive
11-14-2013, 07:23 PM
The amp I have doesn't have subsonic filtering.

Then you need a new amp.. That's not good at all

Preston019
11-14-2013, 08:26 PM
Then you need a new amp.. That's not good at all

Well, considering my amp is 500W RMS and my subs are 300W RMS EACH (I have 2, so 600W total), also mentioned in the aforementioned posts of this thread, I'm PRETTY SURE I'll be okay. Especially since I don't ever listen to rap or music that has very low frequencies.

SounDrive
11-14-2013, 10:04 PM
Well, considering my amp is 500W RMS and my subs are 300W RMS EACH (I have 2, so 600W total), also mentioned in the aforementioned posts of this thread, I'm PRETTY SURE I'll be okay. Especially since I don't ever listen to rap or music that has very low frequencies.

What amp is it?

Preston019
11-15-2013, 10:02 AM
What amp is it?

This one:
Kenwood - X500-1 (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Car_Entertainment/eXcelon/Amplifiers/X500-1)

DonH
11-16-2013, 03:42 PM
amp is fine, has a built in ssf at 20hz.