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EFD307
10-16-2013, 05:04 PM
So ive been looking into upgrading my speakers and decided that if i was going to do it i was going to do it right. im looking at getting alpine type r 6x8 speakers for 4 doors and an 8'' type r sub in the back. powered by the Alpine MRX-V70. I pay attention to the quality of my audio i have excellent speakers and headphones at home and im looking to upgrade my car. my question is about the amp, its putting out 60 Watt RMS to 100 Watt RMS speakers, i mean yea its going to be plenty loud but am i reaching the full potential of those speakers, also is an 8'' sub enough? im driving an 06 escape i like my bass tight and punchy. hoping to learn some things from this forum, help me out if you can.

trumpet
10-16-2013, 05:54 PM
Doing it "right" with car audio is more about the installation techniques and tuning than it is choosing how much power to run to new speakers. You do need good quality speakers with a good quality amplifier, which you have for both points, but the car really makes a mess of the sound by the time it reaches our ears. Regarding the subwoofer, you can get tight and punchy bass with any size of subwoofer. The easiest way to accomplish this is with a sealed box and to use a large subwoofer turned down to blend in with the speakers. This helps to minimize distortion by minimizing cone movement. Most people put 8" subwoofers into ported boxes, which can sometimes make the bass sound a little muddy compared to a sealed enclosure. I prefer the higher output of a vented/ported enclosure but I give that up for the better transient response of a sealed enclosure.

If you spend a lot of time in your vehicle it may be well worth it to spend some money and time on acoustic treatments, of which there are many ways to tackle this in a car. Additionally, if you want to keep your speakers in the factory locations you should strongly consider a DSP equalizer. Virtually all of these allow you to keep the factory radio, if that's something you prefer. My personal preference is the JBL MS-8, but other options include the Audison Bit ten, Bit one, Rockford 360.3, Alpine PXA-H800 plus the extra control unit, Arc PS8, and more.

If you share what area of New York you're in I can try to find a good business to visit to maybe listen to a vehicle that's built for excellent sound quality.

EFD307
10-16-2013, 07:37 PM
so how big is big? 12" or larger than that? i replaced the factory radio with the Alpine CDE-W235BT im hoping the eq on that will be good enough until i consider looking into a DPS. I am not going to have the money to build everything at once, i was planning on either installing the door speakers with amp or a sub with amp first then add in whats missing. the door speakers operate on the low end starting at around 60 Hrz while a sub could be anywhere from like 10-30 Hrz on the low end. would it be worth wile to install the speakers with a 5 channel amp and then add the woofer at a later date? i mean i would be lacking on the low end for a bit but will it be tolerable for a month or two before i get the sub?

EFD307
10-16-2013, 07:45 PM
Doing it "right" with car audio is more about the installation techniques and tuning than it is choosing how much power to run to new speakers. You do need good quality speakers with a good quality amplifier, which you have for both points, but the car really makes a mess of the sound by the time it reaches our ears. Regarding the subwoofer, you can get tight and punchy bass with any size of subwoofer. The easiest way to accomplish this is with a sealed box and to use a large subwoofer turned down to blend in with the speakers. This helps to minimize distortion by minimizing cone movement. Most people put 8" subwoofers into ported boxes, which can sometimes make the bass sound a little muddy compared to a sealed enclosure. I prefer the higher output of a vented/ported enclosure but I give that up for the better transient response of a sealed enclosure.

If you spend a lot of time in your vehicle it may be well worth it to spend some money and time on acoustic treatments, of which there are many ways to tackle this in a car. Additionally, if you want to keep your speakers in the factory locations you should strongly consider a DSP equalizer. Virtually all of these allow you to keep the factory radio, if that's something you prefer. My personal preference is the JBL MS-8, but other options include the Audison Bit ten, Bit one, Rockford 360.3, Alpine PXA-H800 plus the extra control unit, Arc PS8, and more.

If you share what area of New York you're in I can try to find a good business to visit to maybe listen to a vehicle that's built for excellent sound quality.


forgot to quote you in that last post. currently im in upstate new york around the Syracuse/Oswego area

UsAmpsFreak
10-16-2013, 08:41 PM
forgot to quote you in that last post. currently im in upstate new york around the Syracuse/Oswego area

Only thing i would add to what he said is that i would install plates in your factory 6x8 locations and replace them with a component set in the front and a mid in the back. Too much tweet is blistering. I would second his advice on figure out what you want and go a little bit further than you think you want and you'll be good. Throw a single 10 or 12 back there and that will give you plenty headroom.

EFD307
10-16-2013, 09:03 PM
Only thing i would add to what he said is that i would install plates in your factory 6x8 locations and replace them with a component set in the front and a mid in the back. Too much tweet is blistering. I would second his advice on figure out what you want and go a little bit further than you think you want and you'll be good. Throw a single 10 or 12 back there and that will give you plenty headroom.

Thanks for the advice, do you have any suggestions on front and back speakers? Im looking at the Alpine spr 6x8, would those be better for front or back?

UsAmpsFreak
10-16-2013, 09:07 PM
I don't have much experience with the Alpine stuff but i'm sure their mids are decent to good. I just stopped using coax speakers with the tweets built into the cone a good while back. They get annoying with having all those tweets. I much prefer to use circle speakers with one set of tweets in the front, a mid in the front and a mid in the back. It sounds much better to me especially much better sq wise. You sounded like a guy interested in a nice sounding system that probably has a much better ear for good quality than the average bass head.

trumpet
10-16-2013, 09:12 PM
so how big is big? 12" or larger than that?

I personally try to use no smaller than a 12" sub, and I've always driven cars that don't have a big hatch or trunk. If you can spare just 1 cubic foot, or roughly 14"x14"x14", you can fit a 12" sealed sub enclosure that can do well on a wide range of frequencies. This will also depend on which sub you choose, but the sealed enclosure at 1 cu ft is quite forgiving. An Alpine Type S 12" might be just the ticket and a 5-channel amp should have plenty of power for that. If you're not decided on a brand for speakers I do have others to suggest.


i replaced the factory radio with the Alpine CDE-W235BT im hoping the eq on that will be good enough until i consider looking into a DPS.

I'm not familiar with that model of radio but it should be a good start.


I am not going to have the money to build everything at once, i was planning on either installing the door speakers with amp or a sub with amp first then add in whats missing. the door speakers operate on the low end starting at around 60 Hrz while a sub could be anywhere from like 10-30 Hrz on the low end. would it be worth wile to install the speakers with a 5 channel amp and then add the woofer at a later date? i mean i would be lacking on the low end for a bit but will it be tolerable for a month or two before i get the sub?

I recommend you start with the front speakers and amplify those as well as the stock rear speakers. Yes, you could get a 5 channel amp right away and leave the sub channel disconnected until you buy a sub. I've not seen anyone do that but there's no reason it won't work. Most people get a separate subwoofer amplifier, but the trend today is to put a lot of power on multiple subwoofers and blow away the rest of the music with bass. I suspect you'd be quite happy with a modest 300W-500W on a single high sensitivity subwoofer.

To get started on your education about acoustic treatments, I recommend you read through Sound Deadener Showdown.com (http://sounddeadenershowdown.com/). One thing cars have in common with rooms is outside noise. We can't hang a double layer of sheet rock in the vehicle, but we can use other products and their respective installation methods to block some road noise. Doing this properly makes the music sound louder without buying more amplifier power. This is just one cool thing that makes sound deadening worth the hard work.

EFD307
10-21-2013, 11:50 PM
I personally try to use no smaller than a 12" sub, and I've always driven cars that don't have a big hatch or trunk. If you can spare just 1 cubic foot, or roughly 14"x14"x14", you can fit a 12" sealed sub enclosure that can do well on a wide range of frequencies. This will also depend on which sub you choose, but the sealed enclosure at 1 cu ft is quite forgiving. An Alpine Type S 12" might be just the ticket and a 5-channel amp should have plenty of power for that. If you're not decided on a brand for speakers I do have others to suggest.



I'm not familiar with that model of radio but it should be a good start.



I recommend you start with the front speakers and amplify those as well as the stock rear speakers. Yes, you could get a 5 channel amp right away and leave the sub channel disconnected until you buy a sub. I've not seen anyone do that but there's no reason it won't work. Most people get a separate subwoofer amplifier, but the trend today is to put a lot of power on multiple subwoofers and blow away the rest of the music with bass. I suspect you'd be quite happy with a modest 300W-500W on a single high sensitivity subwoofer.

To get started on your education about acoustic treatments, I recommend you read through Sound Deadener Showdown.com (http://sounddeadenershowdown.com/). One thing cars have in common with rooms is outside noise. We can't hang a double layer of sheet rock in the vehicle, but we can use other products and their respective installation methods to block some road noise. Doing this properly makes the music sound louder without buying more amplifier power. This is just one cool thing that makes sound deadening worth the hard work.


so i put an order in, parts should be coming in this week. I decided on the alpine power pack 45W RMS for 4 Alpine sps-517's i would have liked a component set upfront but don't have a hole saw for mounting the tweeter, if you buy the factory audio upgrade Ford has modified sail pannels with space for tweeters but i couldent find them, might be a project down the line. as for the sub i got a great deal off ebay, 12'' type s sub woofer, got a sealed box off amazon and some polyfill (didnt do much research on this but from what i saw it looks like it does some good) and powering that an alpine mono amp that will feed it 300W RMS at 4 ohms. i paid 160 for the amp and woofer which i thought was a great price, the amp was used so ill have to see how that turns out for me... if the worst comes to worst ill buy a new one but hopefully all will be good.

I read into acoustic treatments and it is very interesting, but it seems like a lot of work and time that i don't have at the moment to do properly. would you advise putting some of that polyfill in the doors as well as the sub box? what is that stuff even good for? i mean in the sub box it should from what im thinking cut down on excess "noise" that isnt being fully produced? so that should reduce the sounds coming from the woofer that aren't being produced at that moment right? im not sure, im sure you guys can explain it better than i can. i got a one pound bag and it was advised i stick half of that in the box. i bought a box thats 19 x 16 x 9 inches or about 1.58 cubic feet and alpine states 0.65 to 1 cubic foot is ideal, hopefully stuffing this thing will bring me to where i want to be. when putting the polyfill in should i staple it to the inside of the box or just let it sit there? I would imagine stapling it to the interior of the box would make more sense, but let me know.

trumpet
10-22-2013, 11:50 AM
so i put an order in, parts should be coming in this week. I decided on the alpine power pack 45W RMS for 4 Alpine sps-517's i would have liked a component set upfront but don't have a hole saw for mounting the tweeter, if you buy the factory audio upgrade Ford has modified sail pannels with space for tweeters but i couldent find them, might be a project down the line. as for the sub i got a great deal off ebay, 12'' type s sub woofer, got a sealed box off amazon and some polyfill (didnt do much research on this but from what i saw it looks like it does some good) and powering that an alpine mono amp that will feed it 300W RMS at 4 ohms. i paid 160 for the amp and woofer which i thought was a great price, the amp was used so ill have to see how that turns out for me... if the worst comes to worst ill buy a new one but hopefully all will be good.

You could have gotten good prices on new equipment from me or many other people on this site. I wish you luck with your used amp.


I read into acoustic treatments and it is very interesting, but it seems like a lot of work and time that i don't have at the moment to do properly. would you advise putting some of that polyfill in the doors as well as the sub box? what is that stuff even good for? i mean in the sub box it should from what im thinking cut down on excess "noise" that isnt being fully produced? so that should reduce the sounds coming from the woofer that aren't being produced at that moment right? im not sure, im sure you guys can explain it better than i can. i got a one pound bag and it was advised i stick half of that in the box. i bought a box thats 19 x 16 x 9 inches or about 1.58 cubic feet and alpine states 0.65 to 1 cubic foot is ideal, hopefully stuffing this thing will bring me to where i want to be. when putting the polyfill in should i staple it to the inside of the box or just let it sit there? I would imagine stapling it to the interior of the box would make more sense, but let me know.

Do not put polyfill in your doors.

This article explains the concept and use of polyfill stuffing in a speaker enclosure: Make A Small Box Act Like A Larger One With Polyester Fiberfill By TOM NOUSAINE (http://www.513electronics.com/easy-way-electronics-blog/make-a-small-box-act-like-a-larger-one-with-polyester-fiberfill-by-tom-nousaine/)