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View Full Version : Searching For The Perfect Pair of 6.5 Components



a404freedom
09-24-2013, 11:23 PM
As the title says, im looking for the perfect PAIR of components to run of my Alpine PDX500 amp. I absolutely HATE the high pitch screaming sound. Im searching for SQ, not volume. I have a Type-R 10 and will be deadening the doors.

My budget is $300 a set.

Thanks in advance!

keep_hope_alive
09-25-2013, 12:46 AM
remove the word "perfect" with acceptable. your budget is too low for "perfect". that doesn't mean you cannot be happy for $300.

I put together a nice combination using Silver Flute 6.5" and Vifa ring radiator at a cost of $110 for raw drivers, plus 40 hours of effort on installation in the doors and spheres. Ran active they sounded good... acceptable.

Now I have Hertz Mille MLK-165's and they are as close to "perfect" as I have found. Love 'em. List is $850.

For really good speakers, your budget may afford you some nice sets used. I recently sold a set of German Maestro Status for $300. They had an $800 list.

Dynaudio, Morel, Hertz, HAT, Focal, etc. all make very nice high-end components. Their lower lines filter some of that technology down and some are decent. Listening to them is a good idea, just keep in mind the sound room and what is powering them.

but I will say this, despite all of the work I've done to my car to make the airspace as ideal as possible, and despite hundreds of hours of testing and trying different processors, amps, and speakers... all I needed all along were the Hertz Mille's.

I can't tell if you want two sets of components or one? $300 per set or total for both? You'll need all of that $300 for front components if you want your expectations to be met.

Also, recognize a great speaker installation is much, much more than deadening. The build logs linked in my sig give you an idea what I go through to get speakers to sound good.

a404freedom
09-25-2013, 07:28 AM
Thank you for your response. I probably needed to clarify, ill be purchasing two sets of components, not one, so id like to spend $600 in total. I understand theres no such thing as "perfect" and installation is extremelly important. The car is a lease though so im not trying to do work to the car that cant be reversed. As for the speakers, its difficult to listen to them cause im limited in resources. As i mentioned, i like a smoother sounding set so i know a silk dome tweeter is wat ill be looking for, but where do i begin. Ive heard alot about CDT n obviosly companies like Hertz n Morel are right up my alley, but im affraid to buy something i cant hear. I know Morel makes lower end 6.5 components, but im scared that the prices will reflect the sheer quality of the speaker. All in all, im not expecting the best, just want a SMOOTH SOUNDING and DURABLE speaker.

winkychevelle
09-25-2013, 07:38 AM
Jbl ms 6.5s are prolly the best inthis category. The metal dome tweeter in that set isnt harsh at all

keep_hope_alive
09-25-2013, 09:27 AM
my strongest recommendation is to buy one set of components for the front. having two sets won't make it any louder, but it will make it sound worse because you'll have to deal with four arrival times instead of two. then you can get one nice set.

installation will determine how they sound. at a minimum, foam seals around the speaker to seal it to the door panel are necessary.

tweeter location will determine how harsh it is, to some part. crossover point plays a role here also. factory speaker locations are sometimes based on convenience and not proper locations.

what vehicle?

neo_styles
09-25-2013, 09:54 AM
Jbl ms 6.5s are prolly the best inthis category. The metal dome tweeter in that set isnt harsh at all

Unless he has a sub stage to pair with it, he's going to be severely let down by the low end response, though. It's the one thing I missed in mine.

winkychevelle
09-25-2013, 09:59 AM
Unless he has a sub stage to pair with it, he's going to be severely let down by the low end response, though. It's the one thing I missed in mine.

He has a type r

neo_styles
09-25-2013, 10:03 AM
He has a type r

Thank you. That's what I get for reading posts while I'm still waking up. MS should do pretty well, then. I do like how forgiving they are on install. That being said, a swap from the JBL MS mid to just a PHD FB mid (keeping the JBL passive and tweeter) was a night and day difference. Because of that, I would recommend the FB 6.1 Pro Kit if he's looking new. Finding a good set used would still be the way to go, though.

tat2bass
09-25-2013, 10:34 AM
If you can do $325 I have a set of BNIB Alpine SPX17PRO's. I love the sound of them. Ring radiator tweet and NEO powered mid. Among my favorite sets.

treesive
09-25-2013, 11:44 AM
JBL P660c is a super sounding comp set for a great price. They like power to get the most out of them but are a 2 ohm setup so not difficult to supply the power. I have a nib set if you want to save even a couple more bucks. For the life of me I have no idea how infinity is the high end and not jbl. Jbl has always sounded better to me.

a404freedom
09-25-2013, 12:04 PM
I have a 2013 VW CC, and I actually found out that I have a 3-way setup infront. My reasoning for doing two component sets is simply to keep the car functioning as "factory" as possible. I dont want to remove and not replace what I take out, so, it makes sense. Having found out the car supports a 3-way setup, I think I'm leaning towards dumping most money into the front stage w the Hertz HSK 163's and then filling the rear with the Hertz ESK 165. Otherwise, may just go the CDT route with HD's for frontstage...

neo_styles
09-25-2013, 12:27 PM
I have a 2013 VW CC, and I actually found out that I have a 3-way setup infront. My reasoning for doing two component sets is simply to keep the car functioning as "factory" as possible. I dont want to remove and not replace what I take out, so, it makes sense. Having found out the car supports a 3-way setup, I think I'm leaning towards dumping most money into the front stage w the Hertz HSK 163's and then filling the rear with the Hertz ESK 165. Otherwise, may just go the CDT route with HD's for frontstage...

The 3-way in your CC is awkwardly-laid out. You're going to have to cut out the stock baffle and either modify it to take aftermarket speakers or create a new one out of MDF or HDPE (cutting board material). The midrange is mounted directly above the midbass in each door and tweet is located in the sail. But, honestly, that's a really lousy config for a 3-way setup. You're better off with a rock solid 2-way setup and, if you're considering Hertz, there's two different models I'd recommend and it all comes down to your personal listening tastes. Keep in mind they're not cheap:

Hertz HSK-165 XL
Herts Mille (as keep_hope_alive ; has recommended to you)

Oh and DO NOT go with the ESK. Garbage in comparison to the rest of the line.

They also make a 3-way version of the Mille and it's about one of the best set of components I've had the chance to hear that weren't sourced from raw drivers. Going raw drivers, however, opens up a BIG world of opportunities. $600 would be more than enough to make a rock solid set, but you have to be able to run active to make it work. I would recommend pairing the ScanSpeak 12M mid with the D3004 tweeter. That combination and the right installation techniques should make you all smiles.

a404freedom
09-25-2013, 12:35 PM
The 3-way in your CC is awkwardly-laid out. You're going to have to cut out the stock baffle and either modify it to take aftermarket speakers or create a new one out of MDF or HDPE (cutting board material). The midrange is mounted directly above the midbass in each door and tweet is located in the sail. But, honestly, that's a really lousy config for a 3-way setup. You're better off with a rock solid 2-way setup and, if you're considering Hertz, there's two different models I'd recommend and it all comes down to your personal listening tastes. Keep in mind they're not cheap:

Hertz HSK-165 XL
Herts Mille (as keep_hope_alive ; has recommended to you)

Oh and DO NOT go with the ESK. Garbage in comparison to the rest of the line.

They also make a 3-way version of the Mille and it's about one of the best set of components I've had the chance to hear that weren't sourced from raw drivers. Going raw drivers, however, opens up a BIG world of opportunities. $600 would be more than enough to make a rock solid set, but you have to be able to run active to make it work. I would recommend pairing the ScanSpeak 12M mid with the D3004 tweeter. That combination and the right installation techniques should make you all smiles.

Thanks so much for the info! I wasn't aware that layout for the 3-way would be so crappy! I'd love to go active but I'd rather not spend so much in cash, sweat and time. Just want some really nice components. Thanks a ton man!

neo_styles
09-25-2013, 12:48 PM
Thanks so much for the info! I wasn't aware that layout for the 3-way would be so crappy! I'd love to go active but I'd rather not spend so much in cash, sweat and time. Just want some really nice components. Thanks a ton man!

Not a problem. You and I have the same driver layout (I drive a 2006 Passat). The baffles are easy enough to make but tolerances are TIGHT. Mis-measure by a small margin and the door card won't want to go back on again, but at least you have a decent mounting depth to work with.

If you're not ready to go active and are concerned about not spending too much, I wholeheartedly recommend two different sets of components based on personal experience. They're both pretty visceral and MAY have you reconsidering whether your Type R is enough, but they also excel in terms of sound quality. They are:

Rainbow SLC 265 (or Germanium if you can find a good deal on them) - buttery smooth and warm midrange, very laidback tweeters. I LOVED my pair of these. German speakers for a German car=match made in heaven

Hertz HSK 165 XL - Different from the non-XL models, these things have gobs of midbass, though not as refined as the Mille (but we're talking about comparing a Van Gogh to a Rembrandt). Can't remember off the top of my head what I thought of the tweets, though.

Either one of those sets should be more than easy enough to install and install properly as well as satisfy what you're looking for in terms of sound.

trumpet
09-25-2013, 12:49 PM
The 3-way in your CC is awkwardly-laid out. You're going to have to cut out the stock baffle and either modify it to take aftermarket speakers or create a new one out of MDF or HDPE (cutting board material). The midrange is mounted directly above the midbass in each door and tweet is located in the sail. But, honestly, that's a really lousy config for a 3-way setup. .

This sounds very much like a step in the right direction for a 3-way speaker layout. With good processing this can yield excellent staging and imaging, assuming the speakers are well chosen. As promoted by Andy Wehmeyer, putting your speakers on the baffle(the door panel) eliminates one plane of reflection. Keeping the drivers close together helps them become perceived by our ears as one speaker. The sail panels can be one of the best locations for tweeters, as long as you have independent level control at minimum.

For someone who has no processing my recommendation would likely be the same, do the 3-way. That door layout could work exceptionally well with a 3-way passive system, such as the CDT MX Designs systems. The crossovers have numerous adjustments, specifically to shape the response of the mid and tweeter, that you don't get on most other brands' systems. A mere tweeter level switch is not adequate.

neo_styles
09-25-2013, 12:53 PM
This sounds very much like a step in the right direction for a 3-way speaker layout. With good processing this can yield excellent staging and imaging, assuming the speakers are well chosen. As promoted by Andy Wehmeyer, putting your speakers on the baffle(the door panel) eliminates one plane of reflection. Keeping the drivers close together helps them become perceived by our ears as one speaker. The sail panels can be one of the best locations for tweeters, as long as you have independent level control at minimum.

For someone who has no processing my recommendation would likely be the same, do the 3-way. That door layout could work exceptionally well with a 3-way passive system, such as the CDT MX Designs systems. The crossovers have numerous adjustments, specifically to shape the response of the mid and tweeter, that you don't get on most other brands' systems. A mere tweeter level switch is not adequate.

That's the problem, though. He doesn't have the resources for processing at the moment. Also, the concerns with having midrange information sent to the doors is that you almost always have to either have access to a decent EQ or DSP to bring the sound stage back up. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, midrange as they're laid out in our doors will pull the stage down. VW wasn't very forgiving with respect to the amount of plastic in that area, either. Becomes a pretty big issue with taming comb filtering and reflections.

a404freedom
09-25-2013, 02:27 PM
I appreciate everyone's insight into my matter. I won't lie, anything beyond the "lingo" sounds gibberish to me lol. After gaining insight from you all, the 3-way scenario sounds more like a project than rather than progress. Not that having a 3-way setup doesn't have its advantages, but I'm attempting to keep it as simple as possible: high quality equiptment, good wiring, top-notch install, nothing more, nothing less. With that being said, I think $300-$400 is my MAX per pair of components. As mentioned earlier, I will be running two pairs of 2-way components (...and yes, I understand the potential flaws) to maintain the factory specs (8 speakers when i purchased the car, 8 speakers will ALWAYS be in the car).

So, as per my preferences in sound, and understanding that I'm looking for SQ and NOT how loud I can crank it, please, pretty please, guide me to such a speaker. No high pitch screaming, a smooth, well built and reliable speaker that will not break my bank. I listen to all forms of music, it generally changes by the track.

trumpet
09-25-2013, 02:38 PM
What is your budget for everything? Speakers, amplifiers, wiring, labor? You can take the factory radio's signal and use it with aftermarket amplifiers without an OEM integration processor, or so I've been told by one of the industry's best installers.

a404freedom
09-25-2013, 03:01 PM
Purchased a Pioneer-AVH8500BHS for the radio, have an Alpine-PDX5 with maybeeee 5 hours of play on it to give plenty of power for speakers plus sub. My budget is entirely on TWO PAIRS of 2-way component speakers.

neo_styles
09-25-2013, 03:04 PM
Purchased a Pioneer-AVH8500BHS for the radio, have an Alpine-PDX5 with maybeeee 5 hours of play on it to give plenty of power for speakers plus sub. My budget is entirely on TWO PAIRS of 2-way component speakers.

If you've got 300 for each pair, on that power, I'd recommend the PHD FB 6.1 Pro Kit. The MS are nice, don't get me wrong, but in our cars it takes tremendous effort to get them to sound as good as they do in comparable cars. The tweeter is also a little bigger which poses a problem when you're trying to get it into the stock location in the sail. PHDs should be a much easier drop-in solution.

a404freedom
09-25-2013, 03:14 PM
If you've got 300 for each pair, on that power, I'd recommend the PHD FB 6.1 Pro Kit. The MS are nice, don't get me wrong, but in our cars it takes tremendous effort to get them to sound as good as they do in comparable cars. The tweeter is also a little bigger which poses a problem when you're trying to get it into the stock location in the sail. PHDs should be a much easier drop-in solution.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was your review of that set I read? I loved what you had to say about the speakers, predominately what I'm looking for...a very rich sound, full if anything. I absolutely despise that crispy, ear crackling noise people like to call quality sound.

Where can I find these speakers to purchase? Approximately how much do the sets run?

neo_styles
09-25-2013, 03:19 PM
If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was your review of that set I read? I loved what you had to say about the speakers, predominately what I'm looking for...a very rich sound, full if anything. I absolutely despise that crispy, ear crackling noise people like to call quality sound.

Where can I find these speakers to purchase? Approximately how much do the sets run?

I'm not sure who the FL PHD rep is, but you should be able to talk to either mylows10 ; or ge_off_me ; and either one should be able to point you in the right direction. I want to say they're about 300 per set when you go with the Pro kit.

As far as the review, I believe that one was av83 ; though I do run the FB mids in my car and am extremely happy with their performance. Ignore the hack job with the deadener as I went overboard, but here's how I currently have treated my FB mids:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/24/uzahu9yq.jpg

Seems to be the winning combination to getting the most out of those mids. That sponge rubber weatherstripping around the front ran me 8 bucks for two 10ft rolls at a local hardware store. Should take 2-3 layers to mate to your door card when complete.

a404freedom
09-25-2013, 03:24 PM
I'm not sure who the FL PHD rep is, but you should be able to talk to either mylows10 ; or ge_off_me ; and either one should be able to point you in the right direction. I want to say they're about 300 per set when you go with the Pro kit.

As far as the review, I believe that one was @av83, though I do run the FB mids in my car and am extremely happy with their performance. Ignore the hack job with the deadener as I went overboard, but here's how I currently have treated my FB mids:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/24/uzahu9yq.jpg

Seems to be the winning combination to getting the most out of those mids. That sponge rubber weatherstripping around the front ran me 8 bucks for two 10ft rolls at a local hardware store. Should take 2-3 layers to mate to your door card when complete.

Many thanks! God I wish I could listen to these freakin things...!

neo_styles
09-25-2013, 03:27 PM
Many thanks! God I wish I could listen to these freakin things...!

It's not much, but here's a quick video I took when I first installed them:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N7ifIKXiN2E

Btw, this is ONLY the mid playing. No tweets or sub were hooked up at the time I shot the video.

PHD - USA
09-25-2013, 05:32 PM
You will have to email Mike Allen the US rep for your order, here is his email.

[email protected]

murph
09-25-2013, 05:35 PM
everyone has a different definition of perfect.