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sundownz
09-18-2013, 11:10 AM
The new NS v.3 woofers will have a HUGE number of options.

1) The motor supports two sleeves to configure it's gap size / overall performance.



• POLE SLEEVES (these are permanent; only selected when built) :
* Copper sleeve – for low inductance / low distortion
* Steel sleeve – for higher BL / higher SPL – STOCK SETUP


• OUTER GAP SLEEVE (these can be swapped when re-coning the driver) :
* 83mm OD – Z v.2 style coils; lowers mass / lowest inductance – for high frequency burps. My next round of Z v.2 coils will have a longer former for use on the new platforms.

* 85.2mm OD – Standard coil; VERY long 4-layer flat coil – maximum linear travel / good mix of SPL and day-to-day performance – STOCK SETUP
* 86.5mm OD – Equal to NS v.2, Z v.3, Z v.4 Gap – we can use any of those coils or any other 8-layer coil desired.

* 92.5mm OD (NO SLEEVE) – I will be carrying a VERY thick coil for maximum BL for this gap… higher inductance and mass so best for low frequency output. I’ll have these in later this year.

2) We will be able to use any spider stiffness level on them… X, Z v.4, or NS v.3 grade stiffness. They are 4, 5, and 6 layers respectively. These are “pack” spiders that come all glued together. We could also vary what diameter spider is used for specialized applications (not common).


* I will also have an “SPL Spider” Pack coming out… we can stack them from 1 to 6 layers thick; each one is harder per layer than the packs.
* The SPL spiders do not have as flat of a stiffness curve as the packs; so they are superior for SPL applications.
* The SPL spiders will come out towards the end of the year.


3) We can also use a Z v.3 style cone on the 12/15/18 models for lower mass if the customer chooses to use one of the shorter coils for SPL. The 10” model will NOT support a v.3 style cone as it's size is not standard. We would combine this with a smaller diameter spider pack to agree with the surround limites. This is a bit of a "budget" SPL cone setup that we can do.


4) I am tooling up a carbon fiber / fiberglass / honeycomb Nomex composite SPL cone (paired with a dust cap of the same material) in 10/12/15/18 sizes. This cone is lighter and stronger than paper – it also features a surround size in between the Z v.3 and v.4 sizing – it is best paired with the new SPL spider packs in their biggest diameter for a given cone size. Due to the reduced cone and surround mass the FS (resonance) of the woofer is increased to perform better for SPL burps. I expect these around the end of the year to early next year if all testing goes well.

-----

With all that being said... I will have to work up some sort of spread-sheet for the pricing on these with options.

-----

Okay so the MAP will be as follows for stock setup units :

10 - $820
12 - $840
15 - $875
18 - $900

Gap OD sleeves will be available for purchase to change the woofer later on down the line. As mentioned the ID sleeves are permanent so a motor will always be "Low Le" or "High BL" once setup that way.

Both sleeves are machined locally in the US and are pretty expensive to make. They do represent a decent chunk of the costs -- but we wanted to have the ultimate flexibility with configuring the NS v.3 so it will continue to be a viable motor for MANY years to come... we could even develop different OD sleeves for it later on down the line

sundownz
09-19-2013, 09:36 AM
Small update from our machine shop -- we had to go aluminum rather than copper for the low inductance pole sleeve. It was going to run-over the budget by around $100 per driver (ouch!). So that was out. Good news is I have also tested aluminum sleeves and they work very well too :)

Team Ampere
09-24-2013, 12:01 PM
I can only assume there will be a pre-order price to help us consumers out a little bit

04murdalanche
09-24-2013, 12:41 PM
In

sundownz
09-24-2013, 12:41 PM
There is no pre-ordering on the NS v.3 line as they are all hand-built

jockhater2
09-24-2013, 12:48 PM
It's a 4" sub...why would you expect it to be cheap? no 4" subs are cheap.

04murdalanche
09-24-2013, 12:51 PM
It's a 4" sub...why would you expect it to be cheap? no 4" subs are cheap.

Lol.. He just had to ask:rolleyes:

Buuuut. Dat statement about cheap 4" coils isnt true if your buying used. Just gotta wait around for some idiot who bought some then realized he had to pay rent that month and is not selling em brand new for cheap. That's how I got both of my fully loaded SP4 18s to my door for 620 lolol

jockhater2
09-24-2013, 12:59 PM
Lol.. He just had to ask:rolleyes:

Buuuut. Dat statement about cheap 4" coils isnt true if your buying used. Just gotta wait around for some idiot who bought some then realized he had to pay rent that month and is not selling em brand new for cheap. That's how I got both of my fully loaded SP4 18s to my door for 620 lolol

well **** my sideways. That was a deal

04murdalanche
09-24-2013, 01:02 PM
well **** my sideways. That was a deal

Yes yes it was, probably would've never sold my sundown nightshade v1 18s if that deal had not came up.

sundownz
02-24-2014, 10:55 AM
Copied from Facebook update this morning :

Nightshade v.3 Update : As many of you know the NS v.3 features an "industry first" gap sleeve system -- the gap sleeves are all being machined locally; our machine shop did move their facility during out order so it has taken a bit of extra time. We do expect the sleeves to be done machining within 2 weeks; then we will be having them coated at another local vendor -- at which point we can start building!

We are making 5 different gap OD sleeves (so 6 options here... as the fattest coil doesn't use an OD sleeve) and 4 different pole sleeves (Gap ID). That makes about 45 possible gap combinations for the NS v.3 motor! Most customers will simply need the "stock" setup so if you aren't super technical don't worry we make it easy by simply offering the "stock" setup that will work great in most setups.

sundownz
02-24-2014, 11:07 AM
Okay so the MAP will be as follows for stock setup units :

10 - $820
12 - $840
15 - $875
18 - $900


The MAP cost has been changed as well :

10 - $739
12 - $759
15 - $789
18 - $819

sundownz
03-17-2014, 04:02 PM
Pulled specs on the first one from the batch we built w/ Red Spiders + XL Leads. Other than the XL lead wire these are bone stock -- just a bit heavier MMS from the extra giant lead wires but otherwise basically a stock spec.

Stock gap spec is 74.5mm steel pole // 85.2mm steel gap OD... coil is ~82.5mm OD and 76.7mm ID leaving a gap of 1.35mm OD and 1.1mm ID.

I also offer a pole sleeve of 75.5mm (0.6mm gap) and an OD sleeve of 84.25mm (0.875mm gap) // basically makes the gap very similar to the Z v.2 model (tightest gap we ever offered) -- for guys looking to burp these; that will pair great with the upcoming SPL cones and spiders for a nasty high frequency setup. BL will shoot up quite a bit with those tight sleeves.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/NS_v3/Stock_TS/1972468_622280797827395_1550928039_n.jpg

sundownz
04-09-2014, 11:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VMJN_hoVbk

Quick video magnetizing an NS v.3

sundownz
04-09-2014, 12:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpLLJIztbcM&feature=youtu.be

Quick free air test of the woofer that I magnetized :)

sundownz
04-17-2014, 12:04 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymG-ogNRvwA&feature=youtu.be

NS v.3 15" in action

supereikenator
04-17-2014, 12:16 PM
Holy cow, nice!

sundownz
05-01-2014, 09:55 AM
I made a technical post the other day on Facebook regarding some of the design philosophy of the NS v.3 -- figured I would share it over here.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=639014686154006&set=ms.639014606154014.639014626154012.63901465615 4009.639014686154006.bps.a.528967150492094&type=1&theater

We built a set of NS v.3 12s with a smaller 8 3/8" spider pack, stock long 4-layer coil, and a Z v.3 style cone for a customer build requiring them to peak at 50+ Hz -- Fs came in at 47 hz so I am very pleased and they should be awesome.

[img=http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/NS_v3/Tech_Posts/FB_NSv3_12s.jpg]

[img=http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/NS_v3/Tech_Posts/10014741_639014686154006_2024985945688185714_o.jpg]

The customer asked about the raw BL figure so I did some explanation for him :

Part 1 :

"Little tech talk on the specs while I'm at it. As compared to a Z v.3 12" model (as they share the same cone configured this way) and also an NS v.2 12" model :

Z v.3 12" : BL^2/RE = 131.8 / MMS (276g) = 0.477 SPL Factor
Le = 1.12x RE for 50mm coil length (8-layer)

NS v.3 12" SPL : BL^2/RE = 204 / MMS (296g) = 0.69 SPL Factor
Le = 1.01x RE for 80mm coil length (4-layer)

NS v.2 : BL^2/RE = 201 / MMS (346g) = 0.58 SPL Factor
LE = 1.62x RE for 70mm coil length (8-layer)

Given the variation in SPL factor assuming all else equal that leaves us with an advantage of 45% to NS v.3 compared to the Z v.3 which is close to 1.5dB gain for burps. Also factor in that the coil is 60% longer and the spider is also over an inch wider and you have the potential for even more output; likely 2.5+ dB in the end.

Part of the design philosophy of the NS v.3 is the use of a VERY long coil for very large amounts of x-max -- but in order to keep LE and MMS down a 4-layer was used for the stock configuration. Thanks to the huge motor we can still get BL^2/RE on par with the NS v.2 but with much better MMS and LE figures."

Part 2 :

"Also... BL in and of itself has essentially no meaning without looking at the RE (DC resistance). So to properly analyze the spec you must consider BL^2/RE (The NS v.3 Dual-1 has a very low DCR so BL alone might look "low" compared to other higher DCR units) -- but this still isn't the entire picture so also look to their relationship to MMS to gather the "SPL Factor"

And still yet... if all of that looks good and LE is too high you STILL won't have good SPL performance at higher frequencies as LE works as a 6dB low-pass crossover. With the NS v.3 we are able to get a good mix of ALL of these aspects at the same time."

----------

I am not sure alot of people have realized yet how awesome the NS v.3 Le spec is yet... it is simply on par with the RE with an 80mm long coil. That is lower than the 50mm long coil used on the Z v.3 10 and 12 models... and MUCH lower than the NS v.2 coil that was 70mm long.

The cool thing about the NS v.3 is that we could use either of the other coils we compared to in this motor if we wanted to do so. I have sleeves that are perfect for the Z v.3 and NS v.2 coils -- so we aren't limited to JUST this configuration; but I chose it as stock due to it possessing such an excellent mix of Motor Force, Inductance, and Mass characteristics.

SUNDOWNBITCH
05-01-2014, 11:58 AM
I made a technical post the other day on Facebook regarding some of the design philosophy of the NS v.3 -- figured I would share it over here.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=639014686154006&set=ms.639014606154014.639014626154012.63901465615 4009.639014686154006.bps.a.528967150492094&type=1&theater

We built a set of NS v.3 12s with a smaller 8 3/8" spider pack, stock long 4-layer coil, and a Z v.3 style cone for a customer build requiring them to peak at 50+ Hz -- Fs came in at 47 hz so I am very pleased and they should be awesome.

[img=http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/NS_v3/Tech_Posts/FB_NSv3_12s.jpg]

[img=http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/NS_v3/Tech_Posts/10014741_639014686154006_2024985945688185714_o.jpg]

The customer asked about the raw BL figure so I did some explanation for him :

Part 1 :

"Little tech talk on the specs while I'm at it. As compared to a Z v.3 12" model (as they share the same cone configured this way) and also an NS v.2 12" model :

Z v.3 12" : BL^2/RE = 131.8 / MMS (276g) = 0.477 SPL Factor
Le = 1.12x RE for 50mm coil length (8-layer)

NS v.3 12" SPL : BL^2/RE = 204 / MMS (296g) = 0.69 SPL Factor
Le = 1.01x RE for 80mm coil length (4-layer)

NS v.2 : BL^2/RE = 201 / MMS (346g) = 0.58 SPL Factor
LE = 1.62x RE for 70mm coil length (8-layer)

Given the variation in SPL factor assuming all else equal that leaves us with an advantage of 45% to NS v.3 compared to the Z v.3 which is close to 1.5dB gain for burps. Also factor in that the coil is 60% longer and the spider is also over an inch wider and you have the potential for even more output; likely 2.5+ dB in the end.

Part of the design philosophy of the NS v.3 is the use of a VERY long coil for very large amounts of x-max -- but in order to keep LE and MMS down a 4-layer was used for the stock configuration. Thanks to the huge motor we can still get BL^2/RE on par with the NS v.2 but with much better MMS and LE figures."

Part 2 :

"Also... BL in and of itself has essentially no meaning without looking at the RE (DC resistance). So to properly analyze the spec you must consider BL^2/RE (The NS v.3 Dual-1 has a very low DCR so BL alone might look "low" compared to other higher DCR units) -- but this still isn't the entire picture so also look to their relationship to MMS to gather the "SPL Factor"

And still yet... if all of that looks good and LE is too high you STILL won't have good SPL performance at higher frequencies as LE works as a 6dB low-pass crossover. With the NS v.3 we are able to get a good mix of ALL of these aspects at the same time."

----------

I am not sure alot of people have realized yet how awesome the NS v.3 Le spec is yet... it is simply on par with the RE with an 80mm long coil. That is lower than the 50mm long coil used on the Z v.3 10 and 12 models... and MUCH lower than the NS v.2 coil that was 70mm long.

The cool thing about the NS v.3 is that we could use either of the other coils we compared to in this motor if we wanted to do so. I have sleeves that are perfect for the Z v.3 and NS v.2 coils -- so we aren't limited to JUST this configuration; but I chose it as stock due to it possessing such an excellent mix of Motor Force, Inductance, and Mass characteristics.

I still need to get my nsv3 15 fixed where my spider wasn't glued down all the way around the coil....

sundownz
05-01-2014, 03:05 PM
I still need to get my nsv3 15 fixed where my spider wasn't glued down all the way around the coil....

Hmmm. That sounds very odd -- have you issued an RMA request ?

Either way I'd like to take a look -- copy me on any e-mails or photos you have send to tech support already; [email protected]

SUNDOWNBITCH
05-01-2014, 11:47 PM
Hmmm. That sounds very odd -- have you issued an RMA request ?

Either way I'd like to take a look -- copy me on any e-mails or photos you have send to tech support already; [email protected]

RMA number is 0728w. I'm surprised this happened. Been like it since the day I got it, I just have to get around 150 to ship the dam thing

sundownz
05-02-2014, 08:25 AM
RMA number is 0728w. I'm surprised this happened. Been like it since the day I got it, I just have to get around 150 to ship the dam thing

Forward me all the information on it; including photos, purchase info, etc.

To make it easier I sent you an e-mail this morning.