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View Full Version : Tantric HD10 vs. Sundown Zv.4 10"



TaylorFade
09-12-2013, 10:05 PM
I know not all of you guys visit some of the other forums, so I figured I'd post this here too. Straight copy and paste from the other forum. In case you don't go through the threads I link, the power is a DD M2b @ .5 for both subs in my CRX. And the whole premise to this test was somebody was talking **** about how the Z would rape a little HD on the lows.

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab45/taylorfade/Subs/D87E34FE-832C-42DB-9F25-560F5C608DA8-6504-0000052DF5CA1037_zpsc8b0fdfe.jpg (http://s848.photobucket.com/user/taylorfade/media/Subs/D87E34FE-832C-42DB-9F25-560F5C608DA8-6504-0000052DF5CA1037_zpsc8b0fdfe.jpg.html)

Let me first just say thanks to Murph and Jacob for being cool about this test. Neither had anything to do with it. It was all me. And actually... Murphy HATES comparison tests like this. He was quite uninterested in the whole thing.

Speaking of comparisons... I know it's inevitable that this will be viewed as a "head to head" or a comparison or whatever- but I'd like to think of it as more of a showcase of a couple bad *** subs. So... keep that in mind.

In case you're just joining us... these two threads should catch you up...
Sundown x10, z10, or tantric sounds hd10 - Car Audio Classifieds (http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/general-car-audio-discussion-questions/154740-sundown-x10-z10-tantric-sounds-hd10.html)
Tantric vs. Sundown. Who's ready for some butthurt? - Car Audio Classifieds (http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/general-car-audio-discussion-questions/158451-tantric-vs-sundown-whos-ready-some-butthurt.html)

Now, some of you may notice a distinct lack of videos in this thread. Well... I videoing EVERYthing at first. But after about 20 minutes of vid on my phone, I thought to myself, "Why am I videoing all of this?" And I realized it was for "proof" of the results. I came to the realization that I'd never, ever get enough video to satisfy everyone about everything so I said **** on it. I think I've earned the right not to have to spoon feed y'all "evidence" of my results. If you want to write this test off because of the lack of video, I will understand. Doesn't make it any less valid or true. There was just entirely too much of it anyway.

Ok. That's enough of that. On to the results...

TSP's as tested...
Sundown Zv.4 10" Dual 1 ohm
- Fs - 33hz
-Qts- .51
Qes- .572
Qms- 4.702
Le- .22
Vas- .44
Sensitivity - 81db

Tantric HD10 Dual 1 ohm
- Fs- 42hz
-Qts - .58
-Qes- .624
-Qms- 8.75
-Le- .22
-Vas- .58
-Sensitivity- 85db


Round 1 - Slap some **** together.
Box - 1.8 @ 31hz. Why 1.8 @ 31? Because MDF remnant and full length 4" aero while waiting on the FedEx guy to deliver the Z. That's why.
http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab45/taylorfade/testing/B986570A-754A-423F-9006-FB2E7570FEF7-1714-000001D451BB22EC_zps0949f6a8.jpg (http://s848.photobucket.com/user/taylorfade/media/testing/B986570A-754A-423F-9006-FB2E7570FEF7-1714-000001D451BB22EC_zps0949f6a8.jpg.html)

Predicted response. You can see here the Z has a distinct advantage in this alignment.
http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab45/taylorfade/testing/09B6AFDF-7EC3-436F-96A0-ED3991AD932B-1714-000001D46E843019_zpsa4fe0684.jpg (http://s848.photobucket.com/user/taylorfade/media/testing/09B6AFDF-7EC3-436F-96A0-ED3991AD932B-1714-000001D46E843019_zpsa4fe0684.jpg.html)

Results...
30hz.
Z- 141.5db @ 30hz
HD- 140db @ 30hz

Peak.
Z- 145.5 @ 32
HD - 144.2 @ 32

Musical peak (same song).
Z- 145db @ 32
HD- 142.7 @ 32

The Z started pulling away from the HD on music in this box. This was a full tilt run on a pretty brutal song. This isn't an average. It's just a peak score on music.

Round 2- The burp warrior.

Box - SPL cubic feet tuned to loud. This is the box I use to test every **** 12" that comes through the shop. It's probably got over 100 burps on it. Even though it's for a 12", it's the only thing I had handy.
http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab45/taylorfade/testing/9213D148-3885-4AF8-8F04-8F0554B658EA-1714-000001D463B331E5_zps3ecd8d57.jpg (http://s848.photobucket.com/user/taylorfade/media/testing/9213D148-3885-4AF8-8F04-8F0554B658EA-1714-000001D463B331E5_zps3ecd8d57.jpg.html)

Predicted response - N/A

Results...
Z- 151.9db @ CRX
HD - 150.4 @ one cycle lower than the Z.

The peak frequency difference is most likely due to the added displacement of the Z. Full disclosure noob moment- I completely forgot that the CRX is setup for daily and that I'm crossed at the HU lower than the peak frequencies here. These scores could have been much higher.

Round 3- TaylorFail.

I've been wanting to try something with a tube enclosure so I decided, "why not?" I fabbed it up all ghetto and what not (like I do).

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab45/taylorfade/testing/321C8172-BCB7-4BB5-BC40-B2F9B2718A82-5415-000003DD24D4CF67_zps2d8547ba.jpg (http://s848.photobucket.com/user/taylorfade/media/testing/321C8172-BCB7-4BB5-BC40-B2F9B2718A82-5415-000003DD24D4CF67_zps2d8547ba.jpg.html)

Results...
Tube failure. The wood to tube joints got blown out. I didn't even record the scores. I know... I'm lame. Fwiw... I did actually try both in it in case the first sub just didn't "like" the tube. The Z was louder.

Continued...

TaylorFade
09-12-2013, 10:07 PM
Round 4- WinISD.

So, we have the "drop in" tests done. It's time to get all nerdy and ****. This one is the meat and potatoes of this test. In the interest of consistency and taking myself out of the equation, I deferred to WinISD for the box specs in this round. This is what any ol' Joe Blow that didn't know crap about either sub would do. So, to put it bluntly... I don't want to hear any **** about these box specs. I had to completely abandon my instincts on this one and just do what the stupid computer told me.

I obviously pulled the TSP's for both subs and plugged them in. Since the entire premise of this test was "teh lowz", specifically 30hz, I fooled with the sizes and tuning until I got both subs' response to have a fat *** peak ~ 30hz while staying musical.

Predicted response (sorry for the ****** pic).

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab45/taylorfade/testing/198E852F-A3FA-45DC-AF76-C8F6EAF006D1-1714-000001D84DD2E9A9_zps74cdeeea.jpg (http://s848.photobucket.com/user/taylorfade/media/testing/198E852F-A3FA-45DC-AF76-C8F6EAF006D1-1714-000001D84DD2E9A9_zps74cdeeea.jpg.html)

Boxes- Yes... you're reading that correctly. 3 cubes for the HD. 3cf @ 31hz. Z- 1.4 @ 28. Both boxes are oriented the same way and have very similar port area per cube. 9.3sq in per for the HD and 10sq in per for the Z. In case you're wondering... the one with the lower F3 is the Z's plot. You will notice that the HD's big *** box has an external 45* in front of the port. The Z has one too. But it's internal.

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab45/taylorfade/testing/4831E911-A8EE-497C-B522-6706A056EB7C-5415-000003DD0BCFBE7E_zps6c537b58.jpg (http://s848.photobucket.com/user/taylorfade/media/testing/4831E911-A8EE-497C-B522-6706A056EB7C-5415-000003DD0BCFBE7E_zps6c537b58.jpg.html)

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab45/taylorfade/testing/5E0D1326-7E0A-4B71-B63B-B25E344230C0-5415-000003DD154F0244_zps7bf65951.jpg (http://s848.photobucket.com/user/taylorfade/media/testing/5E0D1326-7E0A-4B71-B63B-B25E344230C0-5415-000003DD154F0244_zps7bf65951.jpg.html)

Results...

30hz.
Z- 144.3db @ 30hz
HD- 145.1db @ 30hz

Respective box peaks.
Z- 146.8 @ 33hz
HD- 145.1 @ 30hz

Street Beat runs. These are 30 second averages on the USACi street beat tracks. They're brutal "songs" with different frequency centers. Track 9 is centered around 32hz. Track 10 is centered around 27hz.

Track 9 (32hz).
Z- 144.8 (30 second average)
HD- 144.0 (30 second average)

Track 10 (27hz).
Z- 138.0db (30 second average)
---Peak score during the run- 139.2db @ 28hz)

HD- 139.6 (30 second average)
---Peak score during the run- 141.9db @ 28hz



Round 5- Something borrowed, something loud.

To save a little time and get another data point, I borrowed a little burper from a teammate that he happened to have laying around. It's very similar to the burp warrior, but smaller and (should have) peaked a little higher.

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab45/taylorfade/testing/3F3A92A6-FCE3-42D9-BF70-6EFE0220F91A-5415-000003DD2CAE0BEB_zpsf39611a2.jpg (http://s848.photobucket.com/user/taylorfade/media/testing/3F3A92A6-FCE3-42D9-BF70-6EFE0220F91A-5415-000003DD2CAE0BEB_zpsf39611a2.jpg.html)

Results...
Z- 149.1db @ CRX
HD- 148.4 @ 2 cycles lower.

In this box... the HD was pretty much tapped at volume 30 on the HU. It didn't get any louder at volume 35. That happens sometimes. A certain sub/box combo can just top out and it doesn't matter how much power you toss at it- it won't get any louder. The Z gained .4 from volume 30 to volume 35 and climbed to 149.5 but...

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab45/taylorfade/testing/94D65702-FA7A-4AC1-BE6D-238483BC0158-5415-000003DD1EE57D49_zps01c7624d.jpg (http://s848.photobucket.com/user/taylorfade/media/testing/94D65702-FA7A-4AC1-BE6D-238483BC0158-5415-000003DD1EE57D49_zps01c7624d.jpg.html)

**** happens.

Wrap up- "Space makes bass"

I'm exhausted. And forgot every danm thing I was going to say here. Lol.

Bwap
09-12-2013, 10:13 PM
Awesome, I wish there were more direct comparisons out there. These subs are pretty much on the same level from the looks of it.

TaylorFade
09-12-2013, 10:16 PM
Awesome, I wish there were more direct comparisons out there. These subs are pretty much on the same level from the looks of it.

Performance-wise... in this particular application on this power - yes. In general... no. The HDD is a MUCH better matchup for the Z, but that wasn't the point of the test.

Bwap
09-12-2013, 10:20 PM
Performance-wise... in this particular application on this power - yes. In general... no. The HDD is a MUCH better matchup for the Z, but that wasn't the point of the test.

Id love to see something put up against a tc5200... I am thinking about purchasing one, I just don't know how it compares to the other top brands..

hispls
09-12-2013, 10:20 PM
Glue that Z back up and test it in the 3 cube box.

TaylorFade
09-12-2013, 10:29 PM
Glue that Z back up and test it in the 3 cube box.

THAT... was also not the point of the test.

The whole thing about using WinISD was to do it the way some random person would do it. And the results speak for themselves in that regard.

With that said... I'd planned on it. I also have mo' powa to toss at it to see how much I can open it up. But... seeing as how it gained almost a full 3db at 30hz and 1.3db at 32 going from 1.8cf to 1.4cf, I'm not so confident that it'll like that 3 cube box.

hispls
09-12-2013, 10:51 PM
THAT... was also not the point of the test.

The whole thing about using WinISD was to do it the way some random person would do it. And the results speak for themselves in that regard.

With that said... I'd planned on it. I also have mo' powa to toss at it to see how much I can open it up. But... seeing as how it gained almost a full 3db at 30hz and 1.3db at 32 going from 1.8cf to 1.4cf, I'm not so confident that it'll like that 3 cube box.

I know it wasn't part of the test, but you have the sub, and you have the box, IMO that makes you rather obligated to put the two together and report back.

---------- Post added at 10:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 PM ----------


THAT... was also not the point of the test.

The whole thing about using WinISD was to do it the way some random person would do it. And the results speak for themselves in that regard.

With that said... I'd planned on it. I also have mo' powa to toss at it to see how much I can open it up. But... seeing as how it gained almost a full 3db at 30hz and 1.3db at 32 going from 1.8cf to 1.4cf, I'm not so confident that it'll like that 3 cube box.

I know it wasn't part of the test, but you have the sub, and you have the box, IMO that makes you rather obligated to put the two together and report back.

TaylorFade
09-12-2013, 10:57 PM
I know it wasn't part of the test, but you have the sub, and you have the box, IMO that makes you rather obligated to put the two together and report back.

Like I said... I'd planned on it anyway. But since it wasnt within the scope or spirit of this one, I wouldn't have included it in here.

Think about it like this... two guys with the exact same car and the exact same amp make a bet about who can get louder at 30hz. One using an HD10 and the other using the Zv.4 10. One guy models his, the other does the same. They go to a show and meter 30hz. The dude with the HD comes out on top.

It's exactly like that except it's just one dude... me.

resonate
09-12-2013, 11:05 PM
Like I said... I'd planned on it anyway. But since it wasnt within the scope or spirit of this one, I wouldn't have included it in here.

Think about it like this... two guys with the exact same car and the exact same amp make a bet about who can get louder at 30hz. One using an HD10 and the other using the Zv.4 10. One guy models his, the other does the same. They go to a show and meter 30hz. The dude with the HD comes out on top.

It's exactly like that except it's just one dude... me.

Wait...you're a guy?

splwj47
09-12-2013, 11:09 PM
cool test tfade. would like to see hdd vs zv4 though, be a better match up.

Side Show
09-12-2013, 11:38 PM
^^ this and a dd 9510