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View Full Version : What component 3 ways will compare to old ads 641IS?



JKDriver
08-03-2013, 01:30 AM
Yeah, I'm old! I'm getting started on my install in my '07 Jeep Wrangler. I have a crap load of "old School" stuff from 15 years ago, most BNIB. What I want to do is go with a 3 speaker component set that will allow me to install the 6.5 to 6.75 speaker in the stock location, and build a pod where the current "tombstone" tweeter sits at the corners on the dash for the other two speakers.

But having been out of car audio for a good 15 years, I need advice on the speaker models/ brands. As far as SQ, I loved my old ads, also MB Quart, and Boston. Its also got to be able to handle pretty good volume, as my Jeep is heavily modified and at speed with the top off, doors off and the TrailGrapplers humming....

For power I'll be using 2 old Soundstream Reference 405s. My budget..well, I'd like to stay below $800, but If a few $100 more gets me a lot better I can swing it.

trumpet
08-06-2013, 11:29 AM
My closest competitor seems to be much like you, and we've talked about the old MB Quart, Boston Acoustics, and so on. He's got a Boston 3-way set in a convertible Camaro and he's been looking at my CDT speakers to replace them. You could spend a lot less than $800 on speakers if you went with CDT, but they do have sets in the ~$1,000 range. The 3-way sets will handle 150W+ per side depending on which drivers are used, and they will get plenty loud.

JKDriver
08-07-2013, 12:18 AM
My closest competitor seems to be much like you, and we've talked about the old MB Quart, Boston Acoustics, and so on. He's got a Boston 3-way set in a convertible Camaro and he's been looking at my CDT speakers to replace them. You could spend a lot less than $800 on speakers if you went with CDT, but they do have sets in the ~$1,000 range. The 3-way sets will handle 150W+ per side depending on which drivers are used, and they will get plenty loud.

Thanks. Reading these forums can be frustrating, because there is no where near here to audition most higher end brands, or even good brands higher end components. There is one Focal dealer in Panama City, about a half hour away. I liked the Polyglass components, the tweeters in the K2's were very nice. Definitely bright, like old MB's, had to be dialed in right to really shine. I have read a lot about Hertz, but again, no where to hear for myself. How do the CDT's compare? To be honest I have read very little about them other than a few posts here. What component sets do you recommend for my set up?

JKDriver
08-07-2013, 12:18 AM
My closest competitor seems to be much like you, and we've talked about the old MB Quart, Boston Acoustics, and so on. He's got a Boston 3-way set in a convertible Camaro and he's been looking at my CDT speakers to replace them. You could spend a lot less than $800 on speakers if you went with CDT, but they do have sets in the ~$1,000 range. The 3-way sets will handle 150W+ per side depending on which drivers are used, and they will get plenty loud.

Thanks. Reading these forums can be frustrating, because there is no where near here to audition most higher end brands, or even good brands higher end components. There is one Focal dealer in Panama City, about a half hour away. I liked the Polyglass components, the tweeters in the K2's were very nice. Definitely bright, like old MB's, had to be dialed in right to really shine. I have read a lot about Hertz, but again, no where to hear for myself. How do the CDT's compare? To be honest I have read very little about them other than a few posts here. What component sets do you recommend for my set up?

keep_hope_alive
08-07-2013, 12:27 AM
Any pictures of where you will be installing the component set? What kind of airspace can you give the midrange?

The recommendation needs to take mounting locations and aiming into consideration. If you cannot give the mid enough airspace, the high-pass crossover point will need to increase.

I have been very impressed with Hertz Hi-Energy and Mille systems (2-way and 3-way).

do you have any old school drivers you can use? do you have enough amps to run active? running active will give you the most control and thus the best results.

michaellane
08-07-2013, 12:30 AM
I heard the hertz 3 way set that retails for like 1500 $ in stores and it sounded awesome honestly. I can get the model number later if ud like to search forthem online

JKDriver
08-07-2013, 01:03 AM
Any pictures of where you will be installing the component set? What kind of airspace can you give the midrange?

The recommendation needs to take mounting locations and aiming into consideration. If you cannot give the mid enough airspace, the high-pass crossover point will need to increase.

I have been very impressed with Hertz Hi-Energy and Mille systems (2-way and 3-way).

do you have any old school drivers you can use? do you have enough amps to run active? running active will give you the most control and thus the best results.

The "woofer" of the set will be in the stock location, which is in the dash. But I have taken apart the enclosure and I will be able to modify it to angle the driver a little inwards and upwards. I can also add a Scanspeak 290001 Aperiodic vent if I need to compensate for a too small enclosure. The "midrange" and tweeter will go up on the a pillar in a custom pod.

I have two mint Soundstream Reference 405's, so yes I can run active. I have a bunch of NIB Audio Control stuff, all like 15 years old that I never used. A Model 11 Center Channel processor/ amplifier, 2 EQL's half octave/ full octave eq's with level matching preamps, 2 each 2SX 18 db per octave active crossovers, and an Epicenter bass restoration processor. Also a crap load of Esoteric Audio gold plated fuse holders, distribution blocks, terminals, Monster patch cables and some rolls of 0 gauge and 4 gauge power and ground wire. For the most part all I need is component speakers and a couple 10 inch sub's for the boxes I am making for under the front seats.

Unfortunately my A/D/S speakers went with the car when I sold it.

calebkhill
08-07-2013, 01:04 AM
But this guy says he's going to be rolling with the Windows down and doors off.
Probably a decent street set up could do for him.

And active head unit with a decent set of components, passive probably, could get the job done. He's already got the amps.

And my grandma lives in Destin, we love going there and Panama city. Where is that focal dealer, I'll swing by there next time I'm down.

JKDriver
08-07-2013, 01:05 AM
Hey kalebkhill, I have doors! Sort of....

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/davesrb/Jeep/8c73b2a4.jpg

You can see in the corners of the dash, there is a small tweeter pod. That will be removed and a custom pod built into the pillar to hold the 3 inch and tweeter.

calebkhill
08-07-2013, 01:07 AM
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/davesrb/Jeep/8c73b2a4.jpg

You can see in the corners of the dash, there is a small tweeter pod. That will be removed and a custom pod built into the pillar to hold the 3 inch and tweeter.
Ya. Something loud and clear is what you need.

JKDriver
08-07-2013, 01:14 AM
But this guy says he's going to be rolling with the Windows down and doors off.
Probably a decent street set up could do for him.

And active head unit with a decent set of components, passive probably, could get the job done. He's already got the amps.

And my grandma lives in Destin, we love going there and Panama city. Where is that focal dealer, I'll swing by there next time I'm down.

Sommers Audio on west Hwy 98. Around the 4000 block.

JKDriver
08-07-2013, 01:23 AM
Ya. Something loud and clear is what you need.

I agree with the "loud and clear". But during the winter I do put the top on and would like as good sound quality as I can reasonably get. I am by no means trying to make this a competition vehicle, but I would like it to sound good as well as loud. What would you recommend as far as speakers are concerned? I do favor 3 way components....

BTW, I know Phenix City pretty well. I used to run a Region of video stores and had stores around that area. Real nice area. Voted the Best Suburb to raise a family a few years ago....

calebkhill
08-07-2013, 01:55 AM
I agree with the "loud and clear". But during the winter I do put the top on and would like as good sound quality as I can reasonably get. I am by no means trying to make this a competition vehicle, but I would like it to sound good as well as loud. What would you recommend as far as speakers are concerned? I do favor 3 way components....

BTW, I know Phenix City pretty well. I used to run a Region of video stores and had stores around that area. Real nice area. Voted the Best Suburb to raise a family a few years ago....

It was voted best suburb. I forgot about that. Kind of a dull town. Destin is beautiful.

Alot of good brands have been mentioned here already, CDT being one of them.

But as keep_hope_alive; said, the quality of your system will depend largely on how you install it, and since you will be closing your jeep up for the winter, then installation is important to retain sound quality.

Choosing a set is one thing, installation and tuning is another.

trumpet
08-07-2013, 11:28 AM
With all the drivers packed right next to each other a good adjustable 3-way passive crossover would be ideal so you only need 2 amplifier channels instead of 6.

keep_hope_alive
08-07-2013, 08:40 PM
i'm familiar with that tweeter pod size and a 3" is going to take up a lot more space than you may realize. start by putting a 4" diameter PVC cap up there - that is how big it will be (approx)

keep_hope_alive
08-07-2013, 08:48 PM
i'm assuming the CDT dealers will recommend something like this
CDT Audio ES 632iS (http://www.cdtaudio.com/main_series/es/es632is.htm)

if it were me, i'd run active using a 6.5" component set then add a 2" woofer into the mix, something like this:
Vifa NE65W-04 2" Full Range Woofer 264-1046 (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-1046&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla)

i'm doing that in a van right now with some JL C5 comps, adding this mid and running it all active.

LaserRed38
08-23-2013, 03:50 AM
I run the 3-way Milles in a hybrid passive (3+1) and active (6.5) setup, and while I love them, I do not think they will satisfy you in this particular application. I'd go for the Polyglass Focals if you can swing them. The Milles (and pretty much all of the higher end Hertz tweeters, which are the only ones worth it - High Energy and up) need a quiet listening environment to really shine - something your Jeep, is not. ;)

Btw, more pics of the rig! That thing looks amazing. I just remembered you mentioning your ADS comps - I have heard an older 2-way set, and the Hertz tweeters kinda remind me of them. I'd compare the old school MB Quarts to today's Focal. If that helps your decision...

trumpet
08-23-2013, 01:26 PM
i'm assuming the CDT dealers will recommend something like this
CDT Audio ES 632iS (http://www.cdtaudio.com/main_series/es/es632is.htm)

CDT has 3-way passive systems starting at 399, and you picked one of the most expensive set CDT has ever offered. I get your point that pre-made sets can be a lot more expensive than doing your own.

keep_hope_alive
08-23-2013, 06:42 PM
CDT has 3-way passive systems starting at 399, and you picked one of the most expensive set CDT has ever offered. I get your point that pre-made sets can be a lot more expensive than doing your own.

i chose that set because of the mounting depth advantage with the woofer - that is a slick set that has high sensitivity. And being the best it should sound the best, right? Besides, it's still cheaper than the Mille or Dynaudio or HAT Legatia 3-way sets that probably wouldn't fit.
i expect physical mounting depth will play a role given the woofer goes into the dash.

any of the CDT Ultra-Slim line would be suitable physically, but the CL line has much lower sensitivity and we're talking about sheer output here.
CDT Audio CL 642SL (http://www.cdtaudio.com/main_series/cl/cl642sl.htm)


i do disagree that a speaker is only suited for "quiet environments". at 100dBA of output, road noise is moot. :) overcoming road noise is as simple as having a speaker/amp system that is capable of being >10dB above noise.

without knowing available mounting depth, it's difficult to suggest any woofer.

trumpet
08-23-2013, 07:28 PM
any of the CDT Ultra-Slim line would be suitable physically, but the CL line has much lower sensitivity and we're talking about sheer output here.
CDT Audio CL 642SL (http://www.cdtaudio.com/main_series/cl/cl642sl.htm)

I use the CL-6SL woofer in my center channel and on my bench setup next to my work computer. It's definitely not a replacement for a "regular" depth woofer in terms of output and low end extension. I've only been recommending this woofer for a few customers with doors that have really crappy factory mounts, such as late 90s Hondas.

keep_hope_alive
08-23-2013, 08:58 PM
I use the CL-6SL woofer in my center channel and on my bench setup next to my work computer. It's definitely not a replacement for a "regular" depth woofer in terms of output and low end extension. I've only been recommending this woofer for a few customers with doors that have really crappy factory mounts, such as late 90s Hondas.

good to know!

JKDriver
08-25-2013, 01:27 AM
I run the 3-way Milles in a hybrid passive (3+1) and active (6.5) setup, and while I love them, I do not think they will satisfy you in this particular application. I'd go for the Polyglass Focals if you can swing them. The Milles (and pretty much all of the higher end Hertz tweeters, which are the only ones worth it - High Energy and up) need a quiet listening environment to really shine - something your Jeep, is not. ;)

Btw, more pics of the rig! That thing looks amazing. I just remembered you mentioning your ADS comps - I have heard an older 2-way set, and the Hertz tweeters kinda remind me of them. I'd compare the old school MB Quarts to today's Focal. If that helps your decision...

Thanks for the information. Yeah, the Jeep is not a quiet listening environment, top down or up! But I seem to prefer it over our other vehicles. My Armada seems to sit in the garage most of the time. I have less than 6 thousand miles on it in the year I've had it.
Here are a few shots of the Heap.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/davesrb/Jeep/DSC_0123_zpse13972fe.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/davesrb/Jeep/IMG_0365_zps10c130de.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/davesrb/Jeep/a08d459b-4cff-4958-8084-204998d7fd54.jpg

JKDriver
08-25-2013, 01:39 AM
i chose that set because of the mounting depth advantage with the woofer - that is a slick set that has high sensitivity. And being the best it should sound the best, right? Besides, it's still cheaper than the Mille or Dynaudio or HAT Legatia 3-way sets that probably wouldn't fit.
i expect physical mounting depth will play a role given the woofer goes into the dash.

any of the CDT Ultra-Slim line would be suitable physically, but the CL line has much lower sensitivity and we're talking about sheer output here.
CDT Audio CL 642SL (http://www.cdtaudio.com/main_series/cl/cl642sl.htm)


i do disagree that a speaker is only suited for "quiet environments". at 100dBA of output, road noise is moot. :) overcoming road noise is as simple as having a speaker/amp system that is capable of being >10dB above noise.

without knowing available mounting depth, it's difficult to suggest any woofer.

Well, I've started tearing down and mocking up. I am going to do the mid/tweet's in an A-pilar pod. A quick mock up looks like I have a decent amount of room for drivers from 2 to 3 inches. 4 gets a little to obtrusive.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/davesrb/Jeep%20audio%20upgrades/IMG_0649.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/davesrb/Jeep%20audio%20upgrades/IMG_0654.jpg

I am probably going to ditch the stock dash woofer location and build a kick panel pod. With a little judicious cutting I can fit almost 5 inches of depth and I can run the enclosure up along the fire wall behind the dash for some extra interior volume.
I am probably going to trash the under front seat 10 inch sub idea, and build under the rear seats for a pair of 12's that handle small enclosures. Like this...(not mine, pulled from a Jeep forum..)
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/davesrb/Jeep%20audio%20upgrades/DSC00134.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/davesrb/Jeep%20audio%20upgrades/DSC00144.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/davesrb/Jeep%20audio%20upgrades/DSC00164.jpg

JKDriver
08-25-2013, 01:53 AM
So the changes to my configuration means I will probably be hanging on to my Reference 405's and using them in the Armada. I'll need to come up with a smaller footprint amp to run the component set in the front, and the rear sound bar speakers. And of course one for the subwoofers. They are going to have to be fairly small as I will have to get them in under the dash most likely.