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View Full Version : Does adding a 2nd speaker side by side add much volume?



Roland
07-03-2013, 08:53 AM
I guess it might be hard to quantify volume with out a reference, so this might be a dumb question since i have no dB meter.

Anyway, if i add a second 6.5" door woofer (in the same door), with the same amp power as the first, (double speakers & double amp) how much increase in volume could i expect?

I think 15-20% more is what id like to get.

NoLoud4U
07-03-2013, 09:24 AM
If your amp is going to make more power with the lower load on paper it's a 3db gain.

Roland
07-03-2013, 09:44 AM
If your amp is going to make more power with the lower load on paper it's a 3db gain.

Hum, i You mean as if to hook them up parallel or series kind of thing. i did not even think about that.
What if the load is the same and the power is the same? Two 6.5"s with 145 watts per speaker, vs four 6.5" with 145 watts per speaker?

I was just thinking add the second speaker with it own equal amp. Actually i have the PPI 900-4 amp. 4ohms it's 145 rms per 4 channels. I currently have them running active tweeters and the 6.5"s. I thought of the option to just add another 6.5" and buy another smaller amp for the tweeters.

NoLoud4U
07-03-2013, 10:49 AM
Hum, i You mean as if to hook them up parallel or series kind of thing. i did not even think about that.
What if the load is the same and the power is the same? Two 6.5"s with 145 watts per speaker, vs four 6.5" with 145 watts per speaker?

I was just thinking add the second speaker with it own equal amp. Actually i have the PPI 900-4 amp. 4ohms it's 145 rms per 4 channels. I currently have them running active tweeters and the 6.5"s. I thought of the option to just add another 6.5" and buy another smaller amp for the tweeters.

Double cone area or double power on paper is a 3 db gain. It has show cone area gets closer to that mark. With that said if you double cone and not power it would equal out, you still could have a slight gain do to the cone but it might not be noticable. Double power and cone and it will have a big increase

Roland
07-03-2013, 11:12 AM
Thanks DDtC, that is exactly what i needed to know.

Im going the upgrade my speakers to the RF T5652-s first. Play with that for a while and if that is not satisfying, then 2 cones it is.
(Found a great deal on the RF t-5s, hard to pass up and not give a try)

NoLoud4U
07-03-2013, 11:23 AM
Thanks DDtC, that is exactly what i needed to know.

Im going the upgrade my speakers to the RF T5652-s first. Play with that for a while and if that is not satisfying, then 2 cones it is.
(Found a great deal on the RF t-5s, hard to pass up and not give a try)

Dont mix match. How much is this good deal? Rockford is not know for their speakers?

Roland
07-03-2013, 12:38 PM
Dont mix match. How much is this good deal? Rockford is not know for their speakers?
I won't be mixing 6.5s

I have heard good things on thier t3s but not much on their t5s , I think they were priced to high to gamble on, $$$msrp. At $575 I figure it worth a shot.

NoLoud4U
07-03-2013, 12:41 PM
I won't be mixing 6.5s

I have heard good things on thier t3s but not much on their t5s , I think they were priced to high to gamble on, $$$msrp. At $575 I figure it worth a shot.

At $575 you could do better. Audison, Hertz, Dynaudio for some examples

Roland
07-03-2013, 11:54 PM
At $575 you could do better. Audison, Hertz, Dynaudio for some examples

It looks like the Hertz HSK 165 XL fit the bill in the same price range as the T5652-s. The 93 sensitivity may equal a little louder performance, which is what i need. Thanks for the tip

NoLoud4U
07-04-2013, 03:57 AM
It looks like the Hertz HSK 165 XL fit the bill in the same price range as the T5652-s. The 93 sensitivity may equal a little louder performance, which is what i need. Thanks for the tip

Excellent choice.

mlstrass
07-04-2013, 04:48 AM
OP what exactly are you trying to do, how loud are you trying to get? What is your substage?

I'd bridge the PPI to power 4 mids, get a small 2ch for your tweeters. No matter what speakers you end up with...

Roland
07-04-2013, 08:35 AM
OP what exactly are you trying to do, how loud are you trying to get? What is your substage?

I'd bridge the PPI to power 4 mids, get a small 2ch for your tweeters. No matter what speakers you end up with...

substage?

It's a Honda Oddysey work van, (only 2 front seats).
I currently have JBL MS62C tweeters in the pillars at about nose level. The doors have Rockford T2652-s woofers in them. My sub sits between the seat 10" Dayton Audio Ultramax .87' sealed.

Goal is to get a bit more clean volume for the Hwy drive times. I like the windows down, and I drive about 3 hours a day.

So
plan A. Get better Speakers. (this is more that i really want to try out some better speakers, and hopefully it will be loud enough)
plan B. Add another woofer in the door (requires me buying another amp, and door panel modification = $$$)
Plan C. Add a 3" mid in the pillar (requires pillar mod$ and might not make enough volume difference)

hispls
07-04-2013, 09:53 AM
Personally I'd match components if you just want to double up. If you had the ability to do some creative crossing over you could get into something a little more complicated with different drivers but it may be a bear to dial everything in right.

Roland
07-04-2013, 10:58 AM
Personally I'd match components if you just want to double up. If you had the ability to do some creative crossing over you could get into something a little more complicated with different drivers but it may be a bear to dial everything in right.
Sorry, to clarify.
Plan A, REPLACING current speaker with better speakers. (the Hertz 165XL or RF 5652s) If i added another woofer, it would be the same model.
my current speakers are active so...

mlstrass
07-05-2013, 05:40 AM
I'd do 2 sets of comps per door and the tweeters in the A pillars. Should keep up with wind noise no problem on the highway....

T3mpest
07-05-2013, 01:10 PM
Double cone area or double power on paper is a 3 db gain. It has show cone area gets closer to that mark. With that said if you double cone and not power it would equal out, you still could have a slight gain do to the cone but it might not be noticable. Double power and cone and it will have a big increase

Basic acoustic theory says both your posts on this matter are wrong.
Doubling cone area and cutting power in half to each speaker (same power overall) still gains you 3db. Watts and excursion don't correlate at a 1:1 ratio, halving wattage to each speaker doesnt' drop excursion by half, so when you double cone are you gain displacement/output. You also sometimes gain thermal advantages, which can gain you more.

Doubling cone area AND power gains you 6db which is a doubling of total displacementl and acoustic power. 10db of loudness is generally considered where the sound "sounds" twice as loud. With bass it's slightly lower due to the hearing. This corresponds to about 10x the power keeping cone area equal. If you quadruple power and cone are doubles, that also gets you close to this mark. IE 1 speaker on 100 watts becomes 2 sepakers on 200 watts each. For bass this doesn't work as well due to the box size needed often messes up your cabin gain, which is the biggest overall contributor to bass in a car, which is why alot of car audio guys dismiss these rules. For mids and highs though they work fairly well. So for OP, if your amp can't drop impedence and you end up using 1/2 the power on 2x the cone area, your still going to get the 25% sound increase your looking for, imagine if your volume knob had 2 or 3 turns of clean volume left..

NoLoud4U
07-05-2013, 06:39 PM
Basic acoustic theory says both your posts on this matter are wrong.
Doubling cone area and cutting power in half to each speaker (same power overall) still gains you 3db. Input voltage and excursion don't correlate at a 1:1 ratio, halving voltage to each speaker doesnt' drop excursion by half, so when you double cone are you gain displacement/output. You also sometimes gain thermal advantages, which can gain you more.

Doubling cone area AND power gains you 6db which is a doubling of total displacementl and acoustic power. 10db of loudness is generally considered where the sound "sounds" twice as loud. With bass it's slightly lower due to the hearing. This corresponds to about 10x the power keeping cone area equal. If you quadruple power and cone are doubles, that also gets you close to this mark. IE 1 speaker on 100 watts becomes 2 sepakers on 200 watts each. For bass this doesn't work as well due to the box size needed often messes up your cabin gain, which is the biggest overall contributor to bass in a car, which is why alot of car audio guys dismiss these rules. For mids and highs though they work fairly well. So for OP, if your amp can't drop impedence and you end up using 1/2 the power on 2x the cone area, your still going to get the 25% sound increase your looking for, imagine if your volume knob had 2 or 3 turns of clean volume left..

Sorry you feel that way but I am not wrong.

T3mpest
07-05-2013, 10:29 PM
Sorry you feel that way but I am not wrong.
LMAO care to google search to back youself up.. Nah, 100+ years of acoustic theory is useless next to the YOU! Maybe if you learned a bit about how speakers really work you wouldn't be stuck nuthugging brands so much.

dumple
07-05-2013, 10:54 PM
We skipped the moat important question are the doors sealed and deadend

NoLoud4U
07-05-2013, 11:19 PM
LMAO care to google search to back youself up.. Nah, 100+ years of acoustic theory is useless next to the YOU! Maybe if you learned a bit about how speakers really work you wouldn't be stuck nuthugging brands so much.

I said doubling cone area OR power is a 3 db increase. If he cuts his power in half and doubles cone area it's the same thing. If everything is within parameters.

T3mpest
07-05-2013, 11:25 PM
aha nvm then my apologies, i misunderstood your point. I was thinking you meant splitting the total power in half, not literally only having half..

NoLoud4U
07-05-2013, 11:30 PM
aha nvm then my apologies, i misunderstood your point. I was thinking you meant splitting the total power in half, not literally only having half..

It's all good.

Roland
07-05-2013, 11:41 PM
We skipped the moat important question are the doors sealed and deadend

Yeah about 1 yard in each door.

Went buy a couple of shops today to see about cost of building the door panels for Two 6.5s. it would be tricky because the lay out. So they were talking pretty big bucks.

Went to check on the Hertz 165 XL at a dealer, one of the guys show me 3 boxes of failed Hertz speakers! Yeks. Only a few of them where high energy's but still. needless to say he was not to jazzed about them.

Against some good advice i went ahead and ordered the RF T5652-s. The price was even lower than before, and the warranty is solid, so im going out on a limb. I haven't seen where anyone (non invested in RF) has actually tried the T5652-s, so maybe that particular model will be as good was some of the sponsored guys say they are.

T3mpest thanks for the info.

dumple
07-05-2013, 11:43 PM
What headunit are you running active with

Roland
07-05-2013, 11:51 PM
What headunit are you running active with

DEH 80PRS.
Im going to get some one to tune it next week (i'm sure someone who really knows what there doing will get the sound to its max potential.

Roland
07-11-2013, 07:44 PM
The Rockford Fosgate T5652-S work out GREAT!!!!

Put them in, and tuned them up, and not only gave me the extra good clean Volume i wanted, but they Totally Rocked My World! Absolutely Amazing!

No need for second speakers