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View Full Version : RE XXX 15: sound quality build; ported or sealed



mugen08
06-19-2013, 01:22 PM
I am leaning towards sealed; I have a slot ported box that would be 3.25 cubes if I sealed the port and probably 3.00 or a little less with the port open.

It is a generic box and I'm not sure the tuning, but the port does not bend so I assume it is tuned relatively high due to the short length.

I guess the big question is, will it be close to reaching its full potential in the 3.25 sealed box or could I get a lot better sound quality form building a bigger box, which I really don't want to do. I realize the tuning is gonna be too high and box too small to run it ported.

So, will the sound quality be much better in say a 5 cube sealed box, or can I get great sound quality out of a larger ported box tuned to say 28hz

04murdalanche
06-19-2013, 01:35 PM
please port it, please. do that sub the justice.. you wont regret it man


and screw all you **** who are gonna say "ported isnt always the best option"

quakerroatmeal
06-19-2013, 01:38 PM
Like Jeff said above. Also get a proper ported box built for it.

Buck
06-19-2013, 01:42 PM
First is first, what do you consider "sound quality"?

ace_800
06-19-2013, 01:44 PM
Build a ported box properly for it. Don't just throw it in a prefabbed. I had an 03 Quad XXX 12" that got low.

And 5 cubes is way to big for that sub. Mine was 5^3 tuned to 32, should have been closer to 3^3.

T3mpest
06-19-2013, 02:10 PM
I am leaning towards sealed; I have a slot ported box that would be 3.25 cubes if I sealed the port and probably 3.00 or a little less with the port open.

It is a generic box and I'm not sure the tuning, but the port does not bend so I assume it is tuned relatively high due to the short length.

I guess the big question is, will it be close to reaching its full potential in the 3.25 sealed box or could I get a lot better sound quality form building a bigger box, which I really don't want to do. I realize the tuning is gonna be too high and box too small to run it ported.

So, will the sound quality be much better in say a 5 cube sealed box, or can I get great sound quality out of a larger ported box tuned to say 28hz

what year XXX is this.. If it's 2006 or newer then ported really INS'T a good option. That sub has 40mm+ of xmax and not enough motor to back it up in a ported environment. Your wasting most of the unique capablility of the driver by porting it. If it's a new XXX build the biggest box you can reasonably fit and power to it. If it's a old one, then 3.5-4 cubes at 28-34hz is usually about right.

mugen08
06-19-2013, 02:24 PM
I want to be able to hit the lowest lows up to the crossover cutoff at roughly the same output; not "peaky". It will be powered by a AP3000D at 4ohm (1800-2000 watts)
in a small BMW 325ci trunk

And yes, new XXX

Buck
06-19-2013, 02:25 PM
what year XXX is this.. If it's 2006 or newer then ported really INS'T a good option. That sub has 40mm+ of xmax and not enough motor to back it up in a ported environment. Your wasting most of the unique capablility of the driver by porting it. If it's a new XXX build the biggest box you can reasonably fit and power to it. If it's a old one, then 3.5-4 cubes at 28-34hz is usually about right.

I see what you are saying, but that sub won't use that xmax in any box. And a lot of it has to do with the split coil not handling power as well as it should to even achieve those levels of excursion.

OP what kind of music do you want to bump to?

DoesDad
06-19-2013, 02:31 PM
I want to be able to hit the lowest lows up to the crossover cutoff at roughly the same output; not "peaky". It will be powered by a AP3000D at 4ohm (1800-2000 watts)
in a small BMW 325ci trunk

And yes, new XXX

**** shame putting the XXX on an Audiopipe...

Buck
06-19-2013, 02:36 PM
**** shame putting the XXX on an Audiopipe...

Have you seen RE audio these days lol?

DoesDad
06-19-2013, 03:04 PM
Have you seen RE audio these days lol?

Yeah... Not like they used to be. I didn't read through the posts. He's running a new one evidently then. Meh...

Buck
06-19-2013, 03:11 PM
Yeah... Not like they used to be. I didn't read through the posts. He's running a new one evidently then. Meh...

I totally get what you were saying though, but RE isn't what it used to be. Seems destined for any large company to sell out after so much time and success.

DoesDad
06-19-2013, 03:16 PM
I totally get what you were saying though, but RE isn't what it used to be. Seems destined for any large company to sell out after so much time and success.

It's all about the bottom line. I get that. It's still a shame though. Kind of like Orion, RF, etc... Companies like Sundown get big enough and they'll do the same thing. I think at some point it's almost unavoidable.

04murdalanche
06-19-2013, 03:25 PM
I want to be able to hit the lowest lows up to the crossover cutoff at roughly the same output; not "peaky". It will be powered by a AP3000D at 4ohm (1800-2000 watts)
in a small BMW 325ci trunk

And yes, new XXX

This makes me sad :(

Silver-N-Black
06-19-2013, 03:34 PM
This makes me sad :(

Be happy his not running a popcorn amp.

mugen08
06-19-2013, 03:37 PM
What makes the old xxx better?

mugen08
06-19-2013, 03:38 PM
OP what kind of music do you want to bump to?

Rap, techno

bumpasauras
06-19-2013, 03:40 PM
Nothing wrong with that ap amp at 4 ohm. It won't clip unless you get greedy with the gain and powa is powa as long as it is not clipping. As far as the box I built a 3.75 ft/3 net tuned at 30 htz and good god almighty it would get low and hammer all through the freq range I had it on a apsm at 1 ohm and it did very well had a lil peak aroun 40ish htz but all the same it sounded great on the ap amp although I did have the gains on the amp consertive.

1 other thing is make sure u built the box with atleast 3/4 mdf and brace the shizz outta it and double your front wall thickness. Make sure you liquid nails the crap outta it (even though your car will smell like a construction site for a month or 2) use lotsa screws and countersink/piolet drill everything. That's a whole bunch of mass moving back and fourth even with "only" 2k on the sub.

Prolly already know all this just sayin.

Silver-N-Black
06-19-2013, 03:49 PM
What makes the old xxx better?

XLB2 and the **** motors.
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z347/gruiz11/9055AE63-7C97-46E3-AE90-2987514531EA-31472-000018A081457B2F_zps6602377d.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/gruiz11/media/9055AE63-7C97-46E3-AE90-2987514531EA-31472-000018A081457B2F_zps6602377d.jpg.html)

Buck
06-19-2013, 03:54 PM
Rap, techno

Do ported.

mugen08
06-19-2013, 05:00 PM
XLB2 and the **** motors.


Engrish prease

glitchsta
06-19-2013, 07:51 PM
I bought an 02 XXX recently off craigslist for $120, one of the four voice coils didn't register on the multimeter though I did wire up 2 of the 4 1ohm voice coils to 2ohm, threw it in a 3^3 box tuned to 26hz and the thing is so sick. Before this the best subwoofer I have had is 2 12" Shok Industry Tritons, which blew away my 2 12" Infinity reference subs. Even running 2 of 4 voice coils at 1500 Watts on the XXX, it hits the lows so much nicer than anything I have had before. I used to believe in budget cheap as can be setups, but now I am addicted to car audio and I am convinced the only way to do it is high power and high quality. It is totally worth buying the $300 subwoofer that will blow away two $100 subwoofers. I plan on getting my XXX reconed at either PSi or Fi...not sure which...I guess which ever has the best deal =] Time to figure out some components....oldskool RE kicks my *** though, is the point
https://copy.com/haJzzaxoM8ISSyKF/image.jpeghttps://copy.com/jExNI4BkJnrOBK9y/REXXX-6.JPG

T3mpest
06-20-2013, 12:01 AM
I see what you are saying, but that sub won't use that xmax in any box. And a lot of it has to do with the split coil not handling power as well as it should to even achieve those levels of excursion.

OP what kind of music do you want to bump to?

It'll handle enough power and do it in home audio in a large bo (9-12 cubes for the 18 sealed), but your right, any box that fits in a car won't likely be effecient enough to use the xmax, especially if he's playing real music through the thing. I really would never use one of these in a car period, but if I did I still couldn't port it in good conscience.

Also to OP, this sub is going to be peaky no matter what box you use it in if you want to get any output out of it. The split coil design is ALOT of metal and that leads to very high inductance, these things fall flat on their face above 60hz, just like the older xxx's tended to do.

T3mpest
06-20-2013, 12:06 AM
Engrish prease

XBL^2 is a low distortion motor topology utilizing a grooved top plate to redistribute the flux field in a such a way that as the coil and motor keep a BL value that is at least 70% of it's value at rest over a longer distance than is feasible with a standard design.

lol, I'm screwing with you man.. XBL^2 basically means the woofer can move further with less distortion than a regular subwoofer design. So they tend to be very good at SQL.

mugen08
06-20-2013, 08:08 AM
Sealed it is. Thanks.

mugen08
06-20-2013, 05:09 PM
For all the new xxx haters:

http://reaudio-rus.ru/reviews/review_xxx.pdf

mugen08
06-20-2013, 05:13 PM
that sub won't use that xmax in any box. And a lot of it has to do with the split coil not handling power as well as it should to even achieve those levels of excursion.


Has this been tested? I have seen videos where the sub was obviously at 4" peak to peak excursion....

soloXgt
06-20-2013, 06:12 PM
they aren't saying the new XXX is garbage, just not what it used to be

mugen08
06-20-2013, 06:23 PM
they aren't saying the new XXX is garbage, just not what it used to be

LOL at the second part of your sig..

So basically they used to have a more linear frequency response, but less SPL; the new ones get as low, hit harder, but are more peaky... I don't see how that makes them inferior all together, just in the linearity aspect... Depends on what you are after.
Anyways, here is some extreme excursion in a sealed box; I don't see where some people get their info (They don't have enough motor for full excursion)... RE XXX 12 RACK CITY - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz2cvwWEAVw)

I.v
06-20-2013, 06:43 PM
I love my xxx , re fix the teansel and voice coil problem they now use complete vc not the split one

soloXgt
06-20-2013, 07:11 PM
LOL at the second part of your sig..

So basically they used to have a more linear frequency response, but less SPL; the new ones get as low, hit harder, but are more peaky... I don't see how that makes them inferior all together, just in the linearity aspect... Depends on what you are after.
Anyways, here is some extreme excursion in a sealed box; I don't see where some people get their info (They don't have enough motor for full excursion)... RE XXX 12 RACK CITY - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz2cvwWEAVw)

so if the old ones have a more linear freq. response, and you are looking for an SQ build, why did you go with a new XXX when the older ones willo fit your build better? (and cheaper too)

bhsdriller
06-20-2013, 07:16 PM
so if the old ones have a more linear freq. response, and you are looking for an SQ build, why did you go with a new XXX when the older ones willo fit your build better? (and cheaper too)

they can be hard to find sometimes, not a lot of people know about them either

bassman_soundki
06-20-2013, 07:45 PM
What yr and size is the best XXX?

Its on mt list of subs to get
I have one XBL^2 sub now in the CSS SDX 15, but I want something beefier.

T3mpest
06-21-2013, 01:01 AM
LOL at the second part of your sig..

So basically they used to have a more linear frequency response, but less SPL; the new ones get as low, hit harder, but are more peaky... I don't see how that makes them inferior all together, just in the linearity aspect... Depends on what you are after.
Anyways, here is some extreme excursion in a sealed box; I don't see where some people get their info (They don't have enough motor for full excursion)... RE XXX 12 RACK CITY - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz2cvwWEAVw)

On most music they won't. He was using over rated power and I'm not sure how big the box was, probably large for a single sub. Also, that song has a very loud 29hz tone. Look at the rest of the excusion vids on youtube, it's all bass I love you because of the 10hz tone. Unless you want to do a very large box, the size that could easily fit 2 "normal" subwoofers. If you don't plan on playing alot of <30hz music, you won't see 40mm or more on a regular basis. So yes, my comment is more or less correct. I never said it physically can't use it, but it will take a big box, more than rated power and some very low notes. For 95% of the population there are much better uses of the space available.

Also, the old XXX's def dont' have less SPL than the new ones.. In a sealed box on the lowest of notes that may be true, but again, for a normal car audio applicaton the older XXX's are going to be louder between 30-50hz. above 60 they both **** and below 30 the newer ones have the advantage overall.

If you going to do a XXX 15 sealed I'd be going around 4-5 cubes for it. Depends how much space you have really, and how big the vehicle is. 4cubes if it's on the smaller side, 5 if it's a larger sedan or SUV type.

mugen08
06-21-2013, 08:04 AM
On most music they won't. He was using over rated power and I'm not sure how big the box was, probably large for a single sub. Also, that song has a very loud 29hz tone. Look at the rest of the excusion vids on youtube, it's all bass I love you because of the 10hz tone. Unless you want to do a very large box, the size that could easily fit 2 "normal" subwoofers. If you don't plan on playing alot of <30hz music, you won't see 40mm or more on a regular basis. So yes, my comment is more or less correct. I never said it physically can't use it, but it will take a big box, more than rated power and some very low notes. For 95% of the population there are much better uses of the space available.

Also, the old XXX's def dont' have less SPL than the new ones.. In a sealed box on the lowest of notes that may be true, but again, for a normal car audio applicaton the older XXX's are going to be louder between 30-50hz. above 60 they both **** and below 30 the newer ones have the advantage overall.

If you going to do a XXX 15 sealed I'd be going around 4-5 cubes for it. Depends how much space you have really, and how big the vehicle is. 4cubes if it's on the smaller side, 5 if it's a larger sedan or SUV type.


Thanks for the imput. What experience do you have with the old and new xxx subs? And you don't think the nex XXX will be louder since it has a higher RMS rating?

mugen08
06-21-2013, 09:08 AM
so if the old ones have a more linear freq. response, and you are looking for an SQ build, why did you go with a new XXX when the older ones willo fit your build better? (and cheaper too)

I found one local for cheap. Plus the professional reviews are outstanding.

soloXgt
06-21-2013, 10:52 AM
they can be hard to find sometimes, not a lot of people know about them either

actually, they aren't that hard to find. do a quick search here and CACO. Much easier to find than a 12" TI. Trust me. I've been looking. What would be hard to find is this....

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss307/orangediablo/Sub3.jpg (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/orangediablo/media/Sub3.jpg.html)

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss307/orangediablo/Sub4.jpg (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/orangediablo/media/Sub4.jpg.html)

mugen08
06-21-2013, 11:11 AM
XXX on 400 watts sealed box on music 3" P-P excursion

RE Audio XXX 15 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3N4fLsyTcw)

soloXgt
06-21-2013, 11:29 AM
do you want excursion or sq? lookin more like you want the exc.

mugen08
06-21-2013, 11:42 AM
do you want excursion or sq? lookin more like you want the exc.

Both.

soloXgt
06-21-2013, 11:43 AM
all I see you talking about is excursion. why not post vids of SQ also? Your question has been asked and answered, multiple ways, all of which will work. Get off the computer and build your box and let us know how it is.

mugen08
06-21-2013, 12:38 PM
all I see you talking about is excursion.

Well, people are making questionable comments about the abilities of the sub, some say ported some say sealed, some are saying the sub's motor is too weak for full excursion which it obviously isn't....... Don't know who to believe..

IMO people on this site just have a boner for ported boxes and XBL2 or whatever subs..

Since the guy in the professional review I posted earlier asked the engineers at RE for the best SQ specifications and the answer was a sealed box 2.5 times larger than the optimal size listed on their site that's what I'm going to build; a sealed box 2.5x what is recommended on the RE site.

On top of that the guys who actually perform calcs based on the T/S parameters of the sub say everything points to a big sealed box.

I guess I was hoping to hear some testimonials from people who have ran both

eradicator006
06-21-2013, 06:07 PM
I have a 2008 XXX 15". It's been sitting in storage for a year or 2. I never had much luck running it ported (5 cubic ft. @ 30hz). It was quite horrible sounding; peaky at certain frequencies and also certain frequencies were non existent. I guess the best way to explain it is the frequency plot graph would look similar to the McDonald's golden arches sign. Eventually I plugged the port on the box. Sub was firing up in the back of my Jeep Liberty. It sounded great when I wasn't moving. As soon as I started driving it was as if I had no sub.

For now I've given up on using the XXX in a vehicle. I think I'll turn it in to my H/T sub.

T3mpest
06-22-2013, 07:04 PM
XXX on 400 watts sealed box on music 3" P-P excursion

RE Audio XXX 15 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3N4fLsyTcw)

Think what you want about your driver.. If you really want some honesty about it from an outside source check the data-bass reviews. This guy basically buys and has people send him super expensive drivers so that he can test them properly and see how they do.. Very measurement oriented, he has a great setup and he's no bias. As you can see, while the driver is good, everything I said about it is true. That video you linked didn't look like music either, looked alot like a test tone dropping in frequency, that's not music.

Anyway here is the review of the sub in a 4.5 cube box. Remember in a car you'll get cabin gain that will alter this response, but this is the basic starting response in an open field. "Using the XXX 18 driver in the 4.5 cube sealed test enclosure handicaps it substantially and results in a humped response shape with a significant roll off towards the top end. Sensitivity is very low due to the high moving mass and low BL^2/RE of the motor. This driver wants an enclosure many times this size for a maximally flat alignment. Additionally the huge excursion levels supported require tremendous amounts of amplifier power to make use of them. Power levels that are likely not realistic to use. Distortion performance below 50Hz is pretty good considering the output levels reached but would probably improve substantially in a larger airspace. On the positive side the chance of running out of excursion with this driver in a cabinet this small is next to nothing using any sort of typical amplification scheme. This driver is much better suited to larger sealed enclosures, giant vented alignments and probably most of all IB. "

anyway www.data-bass.com

Again, not a terrible driver but the car brings out this drivers weakpoints even more. The peak near 30-40hz that this driver naturally had due to the heavy coil and high inductance is right where alot of cars have alot of gain. Most cars have nulls between 60 and 80hz where this driver won't play. Your going to have probably a 20-30db difference between 80 and 40hz hz in a car. It's an expensive speaker and it can be a good one, but really this thing is built for a HT system. If your goal is 10hz at 120db's this thing can deliver, if you have the room. Check out the measurements of the ported setup they tried 30+ cubes at 12hz tuning, that's where this thing shines, stupid big boxes tuned very low. Even in a box that big, plenty of woofers can provide more output ABOVE 30hz in a box iiterally 1/6th the size, which is where most music plays. This may not be a problem for you, assuming you planned on crossing your driver over at 40-50hz. Really it depends what you wanted out of the speaker in the first place. I just know alot of people are very disappointed with these things when they get them into the car. Not because it's a bad speaker, but it's not really designed for musical playback, let alone in a vehicle, despite how RE markets them.

Between the new and old XXX the power handling is difference isn't super significant. The XXX used a fairly beefy 3inch coil, most users put 2-2.5k on it without issues. XBL^2 also makes the driver very effecient, as it doesn't lose motor force as the coil leaves the gap. That kind of effeciency you wont' see on a standard t/s sheet, it takes real world testing and measurment to see that.

Anyway back to your setup, what other speakers are going into the car, what kind of car?

mugen08
06-24-2013, 08:02 AM
Thanks for the detailed reply

mugen08
06-24-2013, 12:50 PM
My front stage (2001 BMW 325ci) consists of 2-3.5" drivers and 2-5 1/4" drivers, I'm assuming the 5 1/4" are mid bass only...? Anyway, I am trying to come up with a front stage that will compliment the XXX; obviously something with good low end extension down to what, 60 hz or so which is what I may be setting my crossover at...?

I did the math and I should be able to squeeze a 5 cube box in my trunk plus extra battery and amp..

Hmm, I wonder if I could do an IB setup..

eradicator006
06-24-2013, 09:51 PM
My front stage (2001 BMW 325ci) consists of 2-3.5" drivers and two 5 1/4" drivers, I'm assuming the 5 1/4" are mid bass only...? Anyway, I am trying to come up with a front stage that will compliment the XXX; obviously something with good low end extension down to what, 60 hz or so which is what I may be setting my crossover at...?

I did the math and I should be able to squeeze a 5 cube box in my trunk plus extra battery and amp..

Hmm, I wonder if I could do an IB setup..

Either way, I'm curious to know how it turns out for you.

I may try an IB setup with mine. I'm thinking I could build an mdf cargo shelf type thing in the back of my Jeep Liberty. It would be flush with the top of the seat backs. Sub would be firing up. That could be something I could do with the next to no power tools that I have.

mugen08
06-25-2013, 08:43 AM
Either way, I'm curious to know how it turns out for you.

I may try an IB setup with mine. I'm thinking I could build an mdf cargo shelf type thing in the back of my Jeep Liberty. It would be flush with the top of the seat backs. Sub would be firing up. That could be something I could do with the next to no power tools that I have.

Or build a 25 cube ported box for it!
Data-Bass (http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=8)


At 34.5 cubic feet of external volume and an estimated 320lbs this custom system is by far the largest that has been tested thus far. The huge enclosure enables the system to have very deep extension and a tuning of around 12Hz while utilizing a 10" diameter port. This system was designed some years back in an effort to produce a system with full power output down to 10Hz and to assess the performance of the port system employed. The port design was borrowed from Polk Audio – a patented design from the nineties called the power port that is supposed to allow a controlled and constant expansion at both port ends allowing for greater air speeds before compression while also allowing the use of a shorter port length for the desired tuning. Nathan Funk of Funk Audio was commissioned to build the enclosure design and no expense was spared on the materials, build or finishing. This system demonstrates tremendous low end SPL, but has mediocre upper bass output as a result of the XXX 18 driver’s very low sensitivity. The power port system works very well with huge masses of air moving through the port into the room with barely a hint of chuffing at full output. Unfortunately the added complexity and design time required for this type of port limit its use. This is the first system tested by Data-Bass to provide in excess of 100dB at 10Hz at 2 meters outdoors. A simply massive 114dB was recorded at 12.5Hz under the same conditions which further confirms the visceral room shaking power this system possesses once inside of a typical room.

eradicator006
07-02-2013, 01:56 PM
I changed my mind about going IB. Too much work to support the sub. I'm now thinking about doing a rear firing sealed box. This sub looks promising in sealed. Here's a vid I found: RE Audio XXX 15 underpowered 1500 RMS. Sealed - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbw608M5o4I)

I see in one of your other threads you are thinking of giving up on the XXX in car. I'd say try sealed.