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Bwap
05-02-2013, 08:06 PM
Hey, ive been thinking of different ways to set up my front stage.

So far I have 2x12" subs in the trunk, 2x8"mid-bass in the rear deck, and 6.5 coax in the rear doors.

I can only have one midrange in the front and I am considering making it an 8" seeing as I have the space. I am also liking this option because 8" midrange can handle more power as well and im looking for good power handling. My only question is whether the 8's will be too muddy in the higher fz before the tweeter takes over, or will it sound fine in the range they will be crossed?(Thinking 5,000 @12db or so)

logan963
05-02-2013, 08:11 PM
Hey, ive been thinking of different ways to set up my front stage.

So far I have 2x12" subs in the trunk, 2x8"mid-bass in the rear deck, and 6.5 coax in the rear doors.

I can only have one midrange in the front and I am considering making it an 8" seeing as I have the space. I am also liking this option because 8" midrange can handle more power as well and im looking for good power handling. My only question is whether the 8's will be too muddy in the higher fz before the tweeter takes over, or will it sound fine in the range they will be crossed?(Thinking 5,000 @12db or so)

If you are going to do that, you need to run a 3-way setup, you will need a dedicated midbass 4' or something close to that size to cover from about 1000-6000hz, trying to play an 8' woofer that high will tear it up

Bwap
05-02-2013, 08:31 PM
If you are going to do that, you need to run a 3-way setup, you will need a dedicated midbass 4' or something close to that size to cover from about 1000-6000hz, trying to play an 8' woofer that high will tear it up

Did you mean 4" midrange?

Anyway, it is an 8" midrange that I am looking to install, I already have 8" mid-bass in my rear deck.
Does anyone have any experience crossing 8" midrange high?

logan963
05-02-2013, 08:48 PM
Did you mean 4" midrange?

Anyway, it is an 8" midrange that I am looking to install, I already have 8" mid-bass in my rear deck.
Does anyone have any experience crossing 8" midrange high?

mid range and midbass are the same thing..

Bwap
05-02-2013, 08:51 PM
mid range and midbass are the same thing..

Sorry, but please don't offer advice on something you obviously don't fully understand. Yes there is a difference between mid-range and mid-bass.

DDtC
05-02-2013, 08:56 PM
mid range and midbass are the same thing..

No

---------- Post added at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------


Sorry, but please don't offer advice on something you obviously don't fully understand. Yes there is a difference between mid-range and mid-bass.

Move the mid bass to the front where it supposed to be.

Bwap
05-02-2013, 08:58 PM
No

---------- Post added at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------



Move the mid bass to the front where it supposed to be.

Hmm it would be very difficult the way things are mounted already, its in a Volvo so things are tight and I silicone everything.. also the 8" midbass in the read deck have boxes for them.

Wouldn't it be better to have the midrange in the front anyway for better blending with the tweeters?

DDtC
05-02-2013, 09:00 PM
Any input on the original question would be appreciated.

If the 8 is a real mid it's fine. Just make sure the freq response is as high as you need. But really.. Move the mid bass to the front.

T3mpest
05-02-2013, 09:03 PM
get a pro audio midrange. Look for something with a demodulating ring to control inductance if you don't want it to be muddy, a phase plug would also be nice, but not required by any means. Pyle has an 8 that has both and it's 4ohm and doesn't sound bad at all. If you want to spend a little more then try a B&C driver, they almost all have rings.

Bwap
05-02-2013, 09:04 PM
Hmm it would be very difficult the way things are mounted already, its in a Volvo so things are tight and I silicone everything.. also the 8" midbass in the read deck have boxes for them.

Wouldn't it be better to have the midrange in the front anyway for better blending with the tweeters?

I edited my post after I saw you edited yours lol..

Bwap
05-02-2013, 09:08 PM
get a pro audio midrange. Look for something with a demodulating ring to control inductance if you don't want it to be muddy, a phase plug would also be nice, but not required by any means. Pyle has an 8 that has both and it's 4ohm and doesn't sound bad at all. If you want to spend a little more then try a B&C driver, they almost all have rings.

oo thanks, ill definitely take a look at B&C.. I am looking for SQ, I hear Pyle isn't the best.

DDtC
05-02-2013, 09:10 PM
I edited my post after I saw you edited yours lol..

You want 100hz and up in front of you. That's how you get the illusion of up front bass.

---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 PM ----------


oo thanks, ill definitely take a look at B&C.. I am looking for SQ, I hear Pyle isn't the best.

Rainbow has a nice 7 inch mid range.

DDtC
05-02-2013, 09:11 PM
https://www.woofersetc.com/p-7467-w-175-power-power-cs-69-midwoofer.aspx

Bwap
05-02-2013, 09:13 PM
You want 100hz and up in front of you. That's how you get the illusion of up front bass.

---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 PM ----------



Rainbow has a nice 7 inch mid range.

Hmm I like the look of rainbow they look like good quality.

Does the fact I have the 8's facing up boxed and the 12's facing forward, sealed off from the trunk help with the illusion of up front bass?

DDtC
05-02-2013, 09:17 PM
Hmm I like the look of rainbow they look like good quality.

Does the fact I have the 8's facing up boxed and the 12's facing forward, sealed off from the trunk help with the illusion of up front bass?

No sorry. A good mid bass does not have to be enclosed. A good sealed door or kick pod is what they want. They get punchy and want to act like subs when they are in a box. Where you planning on putting the new 8s in the doors? If so you can seal it up good and put the mid bass there. Put a nice 6.5 in the kick or 3.5 in a pillar pod.

Kingstroker
05-02-2013, 09:19 PM
Sorry, but please don't offer advice on something you obviously don't fully understand. Yes there is a difference between mid-range and mid-bass.

Okay Bwap, you're up. What is the difference between mid-bass and midrange? According to a major speaker supplier their are subwoofers, woofers, full range, midrange and tweeters?

DDtC
05-02-2013, 09:22 PM
Okay Bwap, you're up. What is the difference between mid-bass and midrange? According to a major speaker supplier their are subwoofers, woofers, full range, midrange and tweeters?

Sub 20-80hz, mid bass 60-400hz, mid range 400-4000hz, tweeter 4000- up

Kingstroker
05-02-2013, 09:28 PM
Sub 20-80hz, mid bass 60-400hz, mid range 400-4000hz, tweeter 4000- up

so if my tweeters are crossed at 2.5k does that make them mid-tweeters?

DDtC
05-02-2013, 09:31 PM
Just an example.

A real mid bass is strong when most mid ranges are weak. Any good mid bass driver will out do the best midrange in the low end.

Bwap
05-02-2013, 09:33 PM
Isn't it difficult to get two midbass woofers facing each other in phase?... Anyway that is not an option, I guess I will have to look for an 8" woofer with a demodulating ring so it will be smooth in the higher hz. Is there anything else I should be looking for?

Also if anyone could recommend a setup with crossovers and such that would work well in my situation, I would appreciate it.

My situation:

Power to work with(front only): 150@4x2 / 300@2x2

Want to run 8" midrange and a silk dome tweeter and/or a supertweeter.
I want good sound quality but also want to utilize as much power as possible.(amp has low %thd at 2 ohms)
Seeing as there aren't any component sets to choose from, crossovers will be needed as well.
Id prefer to stay away from iron core inductors in the crossovers as I read that they are less SQ.

Looking to spend about $200+/-

Bwap
05-02-2013, 09:38 PM
so if my tweeters are crossed at 2.5k does that make them mid-tweeters?

I don't know if your trying to be witty or I am reading you wrong, but there is a difference between mid-bass and midrange.. look it up.

Not interested in anymore discussion on that topic...

Kingstroker
05-02-2013, 09:38 PM
this is one of those face in hands moments

DDtC
05-02-2013, 09:40 PM
Isn't it difficult to get two midbass woofers facing each other in phase?... Anyway that is not an option, I guess I will have to look for an 8" woofer with a demodulating ring so it will be smooth in the higher hz. Is there anything else I should be looking for?

Also if anyone could recommend a setup with crossovers and such that would work well in my situation, I would appreciate it.

My situation:

Power to work with(front only): 150@4x2 / 300@2x2

Want to run 8" midrange and a silk dome tweeter and/or a supertweeter.
I want good sound quality but also want to utilize as much power as possible.(amp has low %thd at 2 ohms)
Seeing as there aren't any component sets to choose from, crossovers will be needed as well.
Id prefer to stay away from iron core inductors in the crossovers as I read that they are less SQ.

Looking to spend about $200+/-

In that price range you want to go PA. I'm a SQ guy but I don't mind the sound of the DD VO series stuff. It's the only PA I would ever run besides the $$$$ Hertz SPL show stuff.

DDtC
05-02-2013, 09:44 PM
The B1 bullet super tweeter covers the frequency range from our high output mid-range speakers to frequencies that send dogs running for cover. | DD Audio (http://www.ddaudio.com/products/mobile-audio/voice-optimized/vo-series.aspx)

Bwap
05-02-2013, 10:01 PM
Hmm im checking out hertz and DD, looks like good stuff. I was originally looking at crescendo.

Kingstroker
05-02-2013, 10:06 PM
add 5 or 6 more speakers and don't forget the silicone

logan963
05-02-2013, 10:20 PM
Sorry, but please don't offer advice on something you obviously don't fully understand. Yes there is a difference between mid-range and mid-bass.

Well, thats what I get for posting right when I wake up lol, I went full retard for a few posts :/

Bwap
05-02-2013, 10:21 PM
add 5 or 6 more speakers and don't forget the silicone

Whats your setup?... pioneer coax and stinger rcas?(id be embarrassed to note).. idk why your flaming me, but you should upgrade some more before talking.

---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------


Well, thats what I get for posting right when I wake up lol, I went full retard for a few posts :/

Its all good, luckily I knew better. :p
And remember, "Never go full retard"!

logan963
05-02-2013, 10:25 PM
Whats your setup?... pioneer coax and stinger rcas?(id be embarrassed to note).. idk why your flaming me, but you should upgrade some more before talking.

---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------



Its all good, luckily I knew better. :p
And remember, "Never go full retard"!

Its too late already did lol, Hertz has great stuff, and CDT too!

Bwap
05-02-2013, 10:38 PM
@ddtc You seem like you may know an answer to another of my questions.

I have been considering wiring a supertweeter on a switch in paralell, so when I open the doors I can drop the ohms and raise the output while adding the distance effect of the supertweeter. Say im wiring a component set that is 4 ohms and crossed at 5k. When I switch the supertweeter on, the impedance the amp sees would drop.

Would the crossover point of the component set change because of the change of impedance on the line?

Kingstroker
05-02-2013, 10:55 PM
[QUOTE=Bwap;8385354]Whats your setup?... pioneer coax and stinger rcas?(id be embarrassed to note).. idk why your flaming me, but you should upgrade some more before talking.[COLOR="Silver"]

Not embarrassed a bit, don't have a lot of extra cash. Chose not to spend much on rear fill because I can't hear them anyway and the Stinger locking RCA'S are better than the Monster and Focal that I've had and they perform quite well. The reason why I'm faming you is you acted like a douche when someone offered you advice saying they didn't know what they were talking about yet you are siliconing 5 sets of speakers in your car.

Bwap
05-02-2013, 11:24 PM
[QUOTE=Bwap;8385354]Whats your setup?... pioneer coax and stinger rcas?(id be embarrassed to note).. idk why your flaming me, but you should upgrade some more before talking.[COLOR="Silver"]

Not embarrassed a bit, don't have a lot of extra cash. Chose not to spend much on rear fill because I can't hear them anyway and the Stinger locking RCA'S are better than the Monster and Focal that I've had and they perform quite well. The reason why I'm faming you is you acted like a douche when someone offered you advice saying they didn't know what they were talking about yet you are siliconing 5 sets of speakers in your car.

Id like to hear how much your car buzzes, I silicone everything that can vibrate and have full sound dampening.. nice and quiet ride, and no buzzing when im pushing 4k.
Also silicone is 100% waterproof so its good for a water barrier and air tight seal.
I am trying to learn, so I don't really like when im being told wrong advice.
Anyway, he realized he misspoke and its fine, not reason for you to flame me with your nonsense.

Kingstroker
05-03-2013, 12:35 AM
Why do you feel the need for personal attacks. I couldn't tell you if my car buzzes because it's a 4wd modded diesel truck and just the tires are loud as fvck. And yes silicone is waterproof and if you are using it as a water barrier you've got bigger issues. Also, absolutely nothing on your car is air tight except hopefully your tires. If you ask for advice and you don't like what you get then just let it go, you don't have to attack someone for trying to help. You can say what you want about me, my truck and my system if it makes you feel bigger and that's okay with me. You see tomorrow I'll get up and have coffee with my wife before she goes to work and then I might go out to my shop and clean it up after doing and electrical upgrades last night on my truck. Then I will either work on fiberglassing my door panels, designing tweeter pods for my SEAS neos, rebuilding antique bamboo fly rods or maybe even work on one of the selfbows I've started. I will have a good day no matter what. You should try the same.

Bwap
05-03-2013, 01:34 AM
Why do you feel the need for personal attacks. I couldn't tell you if my car buzzes because it's a 4wd modded diesel truck and just the tires are loud as fvck. And yes silicone is waterproof and if you are using it as a water barrier you've got bigger issues. Also, absolutely nothing on your car is air tight except hopefully your tires. If you ask for advice and you don't like what you get then just let it go, you don't have to attack someone for trying to help. You can say what you want about me, my truck and my system if it makes you feel bigger and that's okay with me. You see tomorrow I'll get up and have coffee with my wife before she goes to work and then I might go out to my shop and clean it up after doing and electrical upgrades last night on my truck. Then I will either work on fiberglassing my door panels, designing tweeter pods for my SEAS neos, rebuilding antique bamboo fly rods or maybe even work on one of the selfbows I've started. I will have a good day no matter what. You should try the same.

Ok cool, so you will stop bothering me. :)
I had to start a new thread because you had to come in here with your antics and shut down our conversation about car audio.
You complain about personal attacks yet you started them. Maybe someday your wife can buy you some nice speakers.
Ill throw insults at any idiot coming into a forum I started where we are trying to have intelligent conversation, whom doesn't have anything good to say at all.
Do me a favor and don't comment on any of my threads, your passive aggressive attitude is not welcome. Keep the bickering at home, bringing that up may show where you issues are coming from.
Anyone feeding people false info and trying to pass it off as fact, your not welcome either.


Okay Bwap, you're up. What is the difference between mid-bass and midrange? According to a major speaker supplier their are subwoofers, woofers, full range, midrange and tweeters?

Top tier intelligence here. I wonder if you believe Sony xplods push 2400watts because they are a major supplier. xD


so if my tweeters are crossed at 2.5k does that make them mid-tweeters?

Wow you are so clever, you just decided you wanted to come on here and troll a random person with dumb comments today?


add 5 or 6 more speakers and don't forget the silicone

You didn't say one thing that was anything near intelligent. Im sure you can find someone to talk to somewhere else, there are many lonely pathetic people who would like to waste their time talking to you on the internet. Im not one, don't expect a response from me again..

Kingstroker
05-03-2013, 01:51 AM
I like making you cry

DonH
05-03-2013, 02:09 AM
OP back on topic to your post, will this be an active setup? I would run a highly efficient 8" mid-bass, a 3" mid-range and a nice silk dome or ring radiator tweeter on axis. The midrange and tweeter on axis in the a-pillar. That is what i would do. do it right the first time, there wont be a second time ;)

I like my midbass crossed 63hz-1000hz -12db/octave midbass 950-3000hz -18db/octave tweeter 2900hz - 20khz -18db/octave

Bwap
05-03-2013, 02:21 AM
Going to be a passive setup that I plan on wiring like this.

http://s15.postimg.org/ma5ec0w4b/Mid_tweet_tweet_crossover_wiring.jpg

Idk if the SPST will work, that's what im working on atm.

DonH
05-03-2013, 02:26 AM
you wont need two tweeters.... buy two nice tweeters, and two nice midRANGES THEN. MIDRANGES FREQUECY RESPONSE CAPABLE OF `70HZ-3000HZ and tweeter about 2000hz-20khz silk dome on axis. look at the vifa tweets and SEAS midranges ;)

DDtC
05-03-2013, 05:16 AM
@ddtc You seem like you may know an answer to another of my questions.

I have been considering wiring a supertweeter on a switch in paralell, so when I open the doors I can drop the ohms and raise the output while adding the distance effect of the supertweeter. Say im wiring a component set that is 4 ohms and crossed at 5k. When I switch the supertweeter on, the impedance the amp sees would drop.

Would the crossover point of the component set change because of the change of impedance on the line?

The crossover could blow a cap from the added power going thru it.

Bwap
05-03-2013, 01:53 PM
The crossover could blow a cap from the added power going thru it.

Well I wouldn't hit the switch with power flowing threw it, my main question is..

If you wired the supertweeter in before the load side of the crossover, would the crossover point of the component set change?

matt_bennett05
05-03-2013, 01:56 PM
https://www.woofersetc.com/p-7467-w-175-power-power-cs-69-midwoofer.aspx

Jebus Cripes ALLMIGHTY, that's tooooooooo muuuuuuccchhhh .02

Bwap
05-03-2013, 02:03 PM
Jebus Cripes ALLMIGHTY, that's tooooooooo muuuuuuccchhhh .02

Haha I had the same initial thought.

maylar
05-04-2013, 09:56 AM
First, as already mentioned you want midbass up front. Which kinda makes the 8's in the rear a no-no.

Second, you can get 8's that will play cleanly up to 2500-3K for a passive 2 way system and have the tweeter pick up from there.

Here's one: WoofersEtc.com - Esotec MW 172 - Dynaudio 8" Mid-range Speaker (http://www.woofersetc.com/p-5554-esotec-mw-172-dynaudio-8-mid-range-speaker.aspx)

And check out this thread on DIYMA:
Need an 8" midrange for 2 way active setup - DIYMA Car Audio Forum (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/system-design-help-me-choose-equipment-my-car/130262-need-8-midrange-2-way-active-setup.html)

k_schutte
05-04-2013, 10:16 AM
We're in the process of doing my buddies front stage... He's using Vifa/Tymphany, single 8" in the doors, 8" in both kicks, 4" and 1" tweet in each pillar and a 4" center channel. It'll be running on PPI amps and a JBL MS-8. Should be fuuun!!! I think his sub stage is going to be a pair of ZV4 18"s in a wall, car is an HHR....