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Bassballer150
03-21-2013, 03:39 PM
starting a fresh build on my mk4 jetta ....havent had bass for months and no music for atleast 6-7 weeks!!!
first thing will be to actually get fstage playing i have a 1hr daily commute to work ***** without music26540822265408212654082326540824

Bassballer150
03-21-2013, 03:40 PM
pods i built a couple months ago with some morel mdt29's

Bassballer150
03-21-2013, 10:10 PM
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130321_120024.jpg


Done with most of the trunk floor and bottom deck

Bassballer150
03-22-2013, 03:11 PM
new toy DD SS4A
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130321_113805.jpg

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130321_114957.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130321_115404.jpg

Bassballer150
04-08-2013, 04:45 PM
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/jetta%20build/20130406_170920-1.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/jetta%20build/20130406_171101.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/jetta%20build/20130407_201926.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/jetta%20build/20130407_202644.jpg

jockhater2
04-08-2013, 04:48 PM
I love vw's and I love those morel mdt29s...that's what I have in my jetta

Bassballer150
04-08-2013, 04:51 PM
what yr jetta do you have? morels sound really good , i might add another pair in the kicks

jockhater2
04-08-2013, 04:53 PM
what yr jetta do you have? morels sound really good , i might add another pair in the kicks

91 mk2. Its my winter beater and my audio car. Everything in my signature will be in the jetta.

I wouldn't put tweeters in the kicks. You always want tweeters up in the A pillars, facing up at the windshield, or at the top of the doors.
The only thing that should be in the kick panels are mid bass's and woofer's.

Bassballer150
04-08-2013, 05:11 PM
Iv sat in cars with tweets in the kicks that sounded awesome, if I do decide to try it I would play around with the positioning before building anything permanent, thanks for the advice

jockhater2
04-08-2013, 05:13 PM
Iv sat in cars with tweets in the kicks that sounded awesome, if I do decide to try it I would play around with the positioning before building anything permanent, thanks for the advice

Your welcome. I don't really have much experience. It's just what I have heard.

How come you chose to crimp the 0-rings instead of solder them?

Bassballer150
04-08-2013, 05:20 PM
Its much easier/quicker I can also crimp inside the car, I did a couple pull test and that lug ain't going no where lol

jockhater2
04-08-2013, 05:24 PM
Its much easier/quicker I can also crimp inside the car, I did a couple pull test and that lug ain't going no where lol

I was just wondering. You have a huge crimper. So it probably was pretty effortless. Are you looking for a mono amp? Or do you have one picked out?

Bassballer150
04-08-2013, 06:21 PM
Finished up adding deadener to the trunk, around 60sqft if damp pro and at 80mlhttp://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130408_133613.jpg

Bassballer150
04-08-2013, 06:24 PM
I have one picked out already

jockhater2
04-08-2013, 06:28 PM
Everything looks great so far!

Bassballer150
04-08-2013, 10:11 PM
3.7cf@32hz
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/Rahvenenoyahoocom-D-2.png

jockhater2
04-08-2013, 10:13 PM
3.7cf@32hz
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/Rahvenenoyahoocom-D-2.png

Are you going to keep the red port with black carpet?

And a ported enclosure isn't exactly SQL. A passive radiator set up would have been SQL.

That is an SPL set up.

Bassballer150
04-08-2013, 10:28 PM
So ported makes it an spl?

Bassballer150
04-08-2013, 10:29 PM
Box will be black/white

jockhater2
04-09-2013, 05:33 AM
ciaonzo ;
Ported is definitely not SQL in any sense.

mlstrass
04-09-2013, 05:42 AM
ciaonzo ;
Ported is definitely not SQL in any sense.

All your opinion which it seems he didn't ask for...

jockhater2
04-09-2013, 06:44 AM
All your opinion which it seems he didn't ask for...

Its not opinion though. Ported box are designed to hit a small range of frequencies very loud. While you lose the ability to play other frequencies that are away from port tuning very well.

Its not an opinion. Its fact. Check out a frequency response curve on a ported enclosure and you will see. His front stage is definitely going to sound great.
And the bass will too. But he won't be able to play all the frequencies from 20-80 hertz the same. There will be a lot of humps and dips.
And that is fine. Its just not "SQL"

ciaonzo
04-09-2013, 08:12 AM
Well, SQL is a misnomer like that other popular one, substage. I hate both of those 'words' and I refuse to acknowledge them, but I'm lovin' that little DD full range amplifier. I'd like to try one of those at some point.

It's important to think of vented enclosures and PR enclosures as practically synonymous, but certainly interchangeable. You can achieve identical frequency response plots with both in the pass band, the only exception is the 28dB rolloff with PR compared to 24dB with vented. Other than that, they do exactly the same thing. Each has it's own advantages. PR is a little touchier and a horrid transient response is guaranteed if done wrong. Vented is much more forgiving if tuning is off target.

To say that you can't have a sound quality setup with a vent is incorrect, you can. You just need to preserve certain things like frequency extension and low group delay within the important thresholds. Another point of interest is the response from 20-80hz. Even if I have an absolutely perfect frequency response profile from 5 to 500hz as measured in an anechoic space, the second I introduce it into the vehicle's interior, that is out the window. The vehicle's acoustics will dominate no matter what. This is why it is ABSOLUTELY essential to have equalization capabilities.

I'm at work so gotta go for now.

jockhater2
04-09-2013, 10:16 AM
Well, SQL is a misnomer like that other popular one, substage. I hate both of those 'words' and I refuse to acknowledge them, but I'm lovin' that little DD full range amplifier. I'd like to try one of those at some point.

It's important to think of vented enclosures and PR enclosures as practically synonymous, but certainly interchangeable. You can achieve identical frequency response plots with both in the pass band, the only exception is the 28dB rolloff with PR compared to 24dB with vented. Other than that, they do exactly the same thing. Each has it's own advantages. PR is a little touchier and a horrid transient response is guaranteed if done wrong. Vented is much more forgiving if tuning is off target.

To say that you can't have a sound quality setup with a vent is incorrect, you can. You just need to preserve certain things like frequency extension and low group delay within the important thresholds. Another point of interest is the response from 20-80hz. Even if I have an absolutely perfect frequency response profile from 5 to 500hz as measured in an anechoic space, the second I introduce it into the vehicle's interior, that is out the window. The vehicle's acoustics will dominate no matter what. This is why it is ABSOLUTELY essential to have equalization capabilities.

I'm at work so gotta go for now.

Bam. I just got schooled. But there is nothing wrong with that :) I am learning.

So you can achieve a a good transient response from a vented elcosure? How so?

Why do you hate the term "sub stage"?
How do you feel about the terms "SPL" and "SQ"?

ciaonzo
04-09-2013, 11:49 AM
Bam. I just got schooled. But there is nothing wrong with that :) I am learning.

So you can achieve a a good transient response from a vented elcosure? How so?

Why do you hate the term "sub stage"?
How do you feel about the terms "SPL" and "SQ"?As I said, the key is group delay. Someday you will sit in my vehicle and have a reference for what a low group delay vented alignment sounds like. Hopefully this year, lol. Basically sounds like sealed with more balls. Here's some copypasta on group delay.


"Group delay is a measure of how sharply the phase of a signal
changes from one frequency to the next. If the group delay
remains low at all frequencies, the bass will be taut and well
controlled. But if the group delay at some frequencies is much
higher than 20 ms, the woofer is likely to exhibit poor transient
response, thickening sounds at those frequences while robbing the
woofer of clarity and impact."

Delay audibility mechanisms (this says nothing about the thresholds, just the mechanisms):
Delay skews perception of second harmonic distortion,
but amazingly, in such a way that the skew is level dependent. This
is an artifact of gross delay distortion that can easily be shown
from a steep filter. It may explain the harshness many people
talked about with old steep anti-aliasing filters.

Another point is that the non linearities in the ear itself can lead to
changes in the transfer from outer to inner ear that are phase, not
power, dependent. Some monaural phase effects can be explained
by the concept of the inner spectrum, the spectrum available to
the inner ear. This is different than the spectrum at the outer ear
due to non linearities in the middle ear and inner ear. Identical
external power spectra can lead to substantially different inner
spectra for different phase angles.

A third aspect is that reversals of phase for some
harmonics can create "beats" that change masking thresholds quite
dramatically, often up to 30 dB. There are some major implications
here for keeping tweeters and woofers in phase, keeping xover phase
on a symmetrical basis and NOT just judging success on a power
basis. Finally, I found a reference describing the threshold for
localization movement based upon group delay. I have applied it as a
group delay criteria for maintaining sharp images in multi way
speaker systems.

There's also a good paper that looked at the impact of group delay across
the spectrum, starting with 30 Hz fundamentals. The group delay
across the board impacted the ability to pick out mid-range detail.

NoLoud4U
04-09-2013, 12:10 PM
Bam. I just got schooled. But there is nothing wrong with that :) I am learning.

So you can achieve a a good transient response from a vented elcosure? How so?

Why do you hate the term "sub stage"?
How do you feel about the terms "SPL" and "SQ"?

The top SQ car in the worls runs a 4th order. It only plays 20-40hz... Thats it.

ciaonzo
04-09-2013, 12:18 PM
The top SQ car in the worls runs a 4th order. It only plays 20-40hz... Thats it.I'd be interested to know how old that judge was, lol.

Infinite baffle, dipole, transmission line, sealed, EBS tunings... these remind me of reference level playback designs. Fourth order, not so much. Could happen, though. Would need some serious DSP involved.

What vehicle, BTW?

NoLoud4U
04-09-2013, 12:42 PM
I'd be interested to know how old that judge was, lol.

Infinite baffle, dipole, transmission line, sealed, EBS tunings... these remind me of reference level playback designs. Fourth order, not so much. Could happen, though. Would need some serious DSP involved.

What vehicle, BTW?

Hybrids Infinity

ciaonzo
04-09-2013, 12:57 PM
Hybrids InfinityLink? Name? MECA? Throw me a bone, here.

NoLoud4U
04-09-2013, 01:57 PM
Link? Name? MECA? Throw me a bone, here.

Scott Bulwalda- Hybrid audios owner

ciaonzo
04-09-2013, 02:03 PM
Scott Bulwalda- Hybrid audios ownerAh... Why am I not surprised. I guess fourth order is technically sealed with balls as well, lol. Good frequency range, too. One octave.

Thanks!

Bassballer150
04-09-2013, 02:05 PM
Well, SQL is a misnomer like that other popular one, substage. I hate both of those 'words' and I refuse to acknowledge them, but I'm lovin' that little DD full range amplifier. I'd like to try one of those at some point.

It's important to think of vented enclosures and PR enclosures as practically synonymous, but certainly interchangeable. You can achieve identical frequency response plots with both in the pass band, the only exception is the 28dB rolloff with PR compared to 24dB with vented. Other than that, they do exactly the same thing. Each has it's own advantages. PR is a little touchier and a horrid transient response is guaranteed if done wrong. Vented is much more forgiving if tuning is off target.

To say that you can't have a sound quality setup with a vent is incorrect, you can. You just need to preserve certain things like frequency extension and low group delay within the important thresholds. Another point of interest is the response from 20-80hz. Even if I have an absolutely perfect frequency response profile from 5 to 500hz as measured in an anechoic space, the second I introduce it into the vehicle's interior, that is out the window. The vehicle's acoustics will dominate no matter what. This is why it is ABSOLUTELY essential to have equalization capabilities.

I'm at work so gotta go for now.

Thanks for clearing that up , this is definitely not a pure sq setup but hopefully it does what I want and that's play anything I throw at it and be able to enjoy my music which is why I got into CA in the first place

Bassballer150
04-09-2013, 02:07 PM
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130408_133322.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130408_133404.jpg

Xcon 15" D2

ciaonzo
04-09-2013, 02:15 PM
Thanks for clearing that up , this is definitely not a pure sq setup but hopefully it does what I want and that's play anything I throw at it and be able to enjoy my music which is why I got into CA in the first placeI'm sure it will sound great, man. The Pioneer head should allow you to work around any obstacle you may encounter. Sorry for the clutter in your build thread.

Bassballer150
04-11-2013, 06:27 PM
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130411_124132.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130411_124218.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130411_124744.jpghttp://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130411_124707.jpghttp://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130411_124658.jpghttp://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130411_124411.jpghttp://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130411_124401.jpghttp://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130411_124300.jpg

Hybrids-M3
04-11-2013, 06:58 PM
Link? Name? MECA? Throw me a bone, here.

Here you go, man. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150284221403947&set=a.10150284218243947.330240.189181953946&type=3&theater
The enclosure was designed by Pete at http://pwkdesigns.com/

ciaonzo
04-11-2013, 07:11 PM
Here you go, man. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150284221403947&set=a.10150284218243947.330240.189181953946&type=3&theater
The enclosure was designed by Pete at http://pwkdesigns.com/Beautiful work, thank you for the link. I love the approach you took with the kick panels.

I'm noticing now that the enclosure is actaully a 6th order, which is even more impressive with regard to group delay and transient response. I'm sure between the one octave sub-40hz passband and T/A, it's not an issue. Again, very nice.

Hybrids-M3
04-11-2013, 07:26 PM
I'm not Scott, but he would say thank you!

ciaonzo
04-12-2013, 10:49 AM
tweeters used to almost ALWAYS go in the kicks with the mids. it seems to have evolved recentlyto the dash. I like them in the kicks, personally, but maybe I just haven't heard the right setup to change my mind!There's good reason for that, especially for anyone still using the passive crossover that was supplied with the components. Back in the day there wasn't much T/A so the best way to equalize path-lengths was to mount drivers in the kicks. Aside from that, it's crucial to keep the mid and tweet as close together as possible to preserve phase coherency and a good/even power response. Splitting the mids and tweets apart by more than a full wavelength at the set crossover frequency introduces phase anomalies and comb filtering issues. People tend to think that you can solve this by simply inverting the polarity on the tweets, but that throws the design of the partnership between the components and the passive crossover right out the window as the polarity was already taken into consideration based on the slopes involved.

With T/A and steep filters, splitting drivers is not as big of an issue but there's still penalties involved when compared to setups acting more like a point source, coax and full range.

BAPEKC
04-12-2013, 11:59 AM
i have a mk4 also...what you doin for power? alt? batts?

Bassballer150
04-12-2013, 01:34 PM
i have a mk4 also...what you doin for power? alt? batts?

still looking at my options as far as alt goes, but will be running d3100 under the hood and 1or2 bt120 in the back

ciaonzo
04-12-2013, 06:50 PM
Let me let you in on a secret.. Most of these kids shouldnt run active. they dont know how to properly do it. Properly set up passives>>>>poorly set up active. You know this though :)Amen, brutha.

Ronny
04-12-2013, 07:17 PM
Your welcome. I don't really have much experience. It's just what I have heard.

How come you chose to crimp the 0-rings instead of solder them?

A proper crimping, as in utilizing the needed pressure and material(s), do to the terminal and cable, what is called cold-fuse them together. Although, for the size cables and terminals we use, the amount of pressure needed is indeed immense :p A cold fusing of say OFC cabling and an OFC terminal, actually fuses them as ONE continuous piece of cable. Sure, CCA cabling for instance with an aluminum or copper terminal can cold fuse as well; total resistivity of the piece will still be low, but a tiny bit higher than using the same material for it. Yes you can fuse different metals together, but that is a process that requires a cave and LOTS of explosives lol. Anyhow, I don't want to clog this thread up much more because it is a nice build thread :); but for a given piece, proper crimping has less total resistivity than a soldered piece from say one terminal's end to the other terminal's end. However, for most of the world, the difference is not too big of a concern.

Bassballer150
05-09-2013, 03:57 PM
pulled out the carpet to wash and finished up adding at to the floor
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130423_164551.jpg (http://s1107.photobucket.com/user/wichovr6/media/20130423_164551.jpg.html)

Bassballer150
05-09-2013, 04:03 PM
picked up a new interior off craigslist not bad for 50bucks way better then the dirty tan seats i hadhttp://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130509_113040.jpg (http://s1107.photobucket.com/user/wichovr6/media/20130509_113040.jpg.html)

jockhater2
05-09-2013, 04:10 PM
Dude. Nice!

Bassballer150
05-13-2013, 12:57 AM
Pioneer problems lead me to this
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130509_011150.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/wichovr6/20130512_204556.jpg

Bassballer150
07-19-2013, 06:08 AM
forgot about this log will be posting some nice updates soon