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View Full Version : Changing my entire front stage.



PapaGeno21
03-17-2013, 02:36 PM
OK so I currently have the following, which is getting completely demolished by my sub stage. Not looking for a RIDICULOUS setup, but something with more mid bass than I have and something a little louder.

MB Quart ONYX4.80
RE 6.5C front components
Kicker DS60 Rear components. I drilled a hole and mounted the tweeter into the door. I plan to not have rear components, so I will just leave those in place and not hook them up.

When I remove this stuff, I am deadening the doors.

Here is the list I have come down too. Can anyone tell me if I should alter this before ordering?

CDT HD-61A front components
CDT HD-6 Rear mid bass driver


Now as far as the amp, I am totally torn. I am going to run that stuff on the MB until I either pick up a DC 175.4 or an American Bass 350.4 at a good deal, OR go new with something a bit cheaper.

Lanzar Opti 250x4 has my eye...?

I could also keep the rear speakers on the MB, and get a real nice 2 channel to just power the fronts, instead of getting a real powerful amp and basically wasting the rear channel only running around 90 watts to the rear doors.

trumpet
03-17-2013, 03:04 PM
1 pair of 6.5" components and some mids in the back are not going to match the output of subwoofers. This is partly why the big SPL vehicles all go to several pairs of mids and several pairs of tweeters. You might notice an increase in output by going to those CDT speakers, but not likely if you keep the same amount of power and don't do treatments to block outside noise. You did mention sound deadening, but in some cases people have reported that makes their speakers sound quieter. It can seem quieter because you don't have sympathetic resonances of interior panels adding to the music.

If you're having the output imbalance while parked, then blocking road noise won't help. Again, we're back to more drivers and more power. I can get you amps that are more powerful, and I can get you CDT speakers. I can't promise this change in equipment will do enough, but it will be a start.

PapaGeno21
03-17-2013, 03:14 PM
I know I am not going to match my subs, and I don't care about that when running full tilt. I just want basically a better front stage.

Would you even run anything in the rear doors?

PapaGeno21
03-17-2013, 04:20 PM
How would this be. Instead of buying a premade set, I could piece together a set.

EX-550i Crossover
DRT25 Tweeters
ES-06 Mid woofer

And for rear fill they have some EU-6's. They will be good for the back.

neo_styles
03-17-2013, 08:43 PM
Just swap your speakers out, you don't need people hear to hold your hand the whole way through.. Do you?

You did. Now enough post dumping and let's help the guy out.

PapaGeno21
03-17-2013, 08:43 PM
Just swap your speakers out, you don't need people hear to hold your hand the whole way through.. Do you?


People "here" you ******* idiot.

I am asking for opinions from people who have forgotten more than you have ever known.

I do believe you and your limited intelligence have no business being in this thread.

neo_styles
03-17-2013, 08:45 PM
OP, the CDTs wouldn't be a bad option at all, though I've never been a fan of how they rate their drivers. If you're looking for something to keep up with the sub stage, why not IA? GOCCA's got a pretty decent deal on the IA comps and they should MORE than keep up at rated power.

PapaGeno21
03-17-2013, 08:47 PM
What do you not like about how they rate their speakers power?

neo_styles
03-17-2013, 08:51 PM
What do you not like about how they rate their speakers power?

Take the HD62s for example. They're rated for 180W, but at 120Hz HPF? Who actually runs comps set that high without a dedicated midbass driver...just seems like they're not being very realistic with their power ratings and claiming they can do way more than they can. I've heard good word of mouth on them, so consider it a window shopper's rant, but I think you could do better than CDT and save some dough. As sick as your sub stage is already, it's gonna be REALLY hard to outshine it. Best be trying to find something that will, at the very least, keep up.

gckless
03-17-2013, 08:53 PM
OP, the CDTs wouldn't be a bad option at all, though I've never been a fan of how they rate their drivers. If you're looking for something to keep up with the sub stage, why not IA? GOCCA's got a pretty decent deal on the IA comps and they should MORE than keep up at rated power.

You'd rather have the IA's over the ES-06's? Those are some mighty fine woofers.

neo_styles
03-17-2013, 08:56 PM
You'd rather have the IA's over the ES-06's? Those are some mighty fine woofers.

Oh I don't doubt it, but I've always been a fan of doing a good job with less. You're talking about a guy with a pair of Level 4 15s in the back of his Outback. He's really not going to see the "finer points" that the ES mids provide. If it were a SQ car, different story.

PapaGeno21
03-17-2013, 08:59 PM
Oh I don't doubt it, but I've always been a fan of doing a good job with less. You're talking about a guy with a pair of Level 4 15s in the back of his Outback. He's really not going to see the "finer points" that the ES mids provide. If it were a SQ car, different story.

Are you trying to tell me these Level 4's of Justice are not the best SQ woofers ever designed by mankind?

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 PM ----------

lol

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------

Would you go with say the HD-6 instead of the ES-06?

whitedragon551
03-17-2013, 09:02 PM
Are you trying to tell me these Level 4's of Justice are not the best SQ woofers ever designed by mankind?

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 PM ----------

lol

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------

Would you go with say the HD-6 instead of the ES-06?

Level 4's in the right box sound amazing. I ran one in 4.0 net cubes tuned at 32Hz on an under rated 1200@1 and it matched or exceeded my pair of Image Dynamics subs that I ran. They can definitely sound great in the right enclosure.

neo_styles
03-17-2013, 09:02 PM
Are you trying to tell me these Level 4's of Justice are not the best SQ woofers ever designed by mankind?

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 PM ----------

lol

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------

Would you go with say the HD-6 instead of the ES-06?

Of course I wouldn't say that lol! But as far as piecing out a system with individual drivers, I would consider Dayton before CDT on the cost side of things. Obviously, that requires having active-capable crossovers which you could get if you upgraded the amp to something like the PPI Black Ice/Phantom lines or something similar. If you can only do passive, though, I'd say the HDs would suit you fine. No sense in the extra coin for the ES if you're not really going to be able to enjoy it.

PapaGeno21
03-17-2013, 09:06 PM
I still don't see why I wouldn't be able to enjoy it though?

What is causing me to not hear the difference at normal listening levels where the subs are not killing the front stage?


Level 4's in the right box sound amazing. I ran one in 4.0 net cubes tuned at 32Hz on an under rated 1200@1 and it matched or exceeded my pair of Image Dynamics subs that I ran. They can definitely sound great in the right enclosure.

Dude, I love these things. I was just making a joke. ;)

neo_styles
03-17-2013, 09:11 PM
I still don't see why I wouldn't be able to enjoy it though?

What is causing me to not hear the difference at normal listening levels where the subs are not killing the front stage?

You said in you OP that your sub stage was demolishing your entire front stage. That leads me to believe that the improvement you'll get in midbass impact and midrange is going to be wasted with the sub stage unless you plan to go in and perform a retune, bringing down your sub level a bit. I'm not dissuading you from CDT for anything more than the price, though. Keep that in mind. They are great drivers.

E-Rock
03-17-2013, 09:13 PM
To match that substage I would say run more power to the fronts, and go with 2 woofers per door and maybe some super tweets. Also PA speakers are an option if you don't want to do 2 woofers per door.

naughtyca
03-17-2013, 09:18 PM
I think to keep up with your substage you need to go with PA

PapaGeno21
03-17-2013, 09:23 PM
Not doing pa, or multiples in the door. Keeping it looking stock minus putting the tweeters on the a pillar.

gckless
03-17-2013, 09:40 PM
Of course I wouldn't say that lol! But as far as piecing out a system with individual drivers, I would consider Dayton before CDT on the cost side of things. Obviously, that requires having active-capable crossovers which you could get if you upgraded the amp to something like the PPI Black Ice/Phantom lines or something similar. If you can only do passive, though, I'd say the HDs would suit you fine. No sense in the extra coin for the ES if you're not really going to be able to enjoy it.

Here's the issue with the lower-end CDT's, from what I have seen anyway: they don't like to handle being crossed lower at bigger power. The ES's will take a larger amount of power for sure, can be crossed lower, and will sound better doing it. Maybe trumpet ; can confirm or deny this.

trumpet
03-17-2013, 09:59 PM
Man...you guys are killing me here. I really don't agree with telling someone to not get better speakers because they love loud bass so they'll go to waste. Would you tell someone to not buy a sub stage capable of big numbers if they'll only turn it up once in a blue moon?

Until we have car audio products shipping with engineering data sheets, we have to live with exaggerated specifications for power handling. Even so, there is always a need for the knowledge of proper system design, and part of that is figuring out how to properly power speakers for long life and great performance. Some of the good manufacturers publish recommendations for setting gains, speaker placement, and so on.

Imtjnotu
03-17-2013, 10:37 PM
do not buy cdt for the love of god

PapaGeno21
03-17-2013, 10:57 PM
do not buy cdt for the love of god
Why not?

PapaGeno21
03-18-2013, 05:26 PM
Little update.

Bought some stuff from a guy here on CA, and also ordered the rest from CDT.

Here will be my front stage.

CDT ES-62S-SQL Kit which is:

CDT Slim mid woofer
560i Crossover
ES-010 Silk Tweeter
WS-100i Upstage Tweeters

Then I ordered the ES-06 Mid bass drivers. I am going to put the slims in the rear doors, and run those bandpass. The 06's will go in the front doors running off the crossover.

Scored a Crescendo C1100.4 off CACO from Decaf, so that is going to be powering them.

I am happy.

Total cost for all that was 661 shipped. I think I did good.

okiedokie
03-19-2013, 05:48 PM
^^^^
CDT speakers are ok
Unless you are new to car audio.
I had a pair of the ES-6 mids that I just gave away to friend.
I like the tonality at low levels, but at high levels distortion.
They lack midbass
HD has better midbass.

You never said what your budget is!
Or if you're adding deadener?

Your install makes the difference.

You can look into
Morel
Helix
Focal
Rainbow

Or piecing something together
Mids-
Dayton
Silver flute
Tweeters-
Seas
Vifa

Add processor & tune , tune, tune & tune then you'll be good

PapaGeno21
03-19-2013, 05:54 PM
You apparently did not read my last post? lol

Yes, doors are going to be sealed and deadened.