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Wacky7
03-12-2013, 10:44 PM
Hello. I am wondering if you guys can help

Ok I have kenwood kfc p709ps tweeters. But I am wondering are they 4 ohm??

And I have CDT 6.5 M6+ mids and I know they are 4 ohm. But the tweeter I have no idea.

I am about to hook up a Stinger bass blocker to the tweeter and the bass blocker are rated at 5.6 khz 4 ohm.

If I hook the tweeter and mid up they become 2 ohm right?? So the blass blocker will end up at 2.8 khz at 2 ohm??

I have picture of the diagram of the stinger bass blocker I did email them and they said it able to use 2 ohm.

Wacky7
03-13-2013, 12:47 AM
bump

trumpet
03-13-2013, 10:46 AM
You can't wire these speakers that way. The woofers and tweeters either need to be on separate amplifier channels or you need to use passive crossovers appropriate for the job. Bass blockers are just capacitors. I don't know how they will behave if you try to wire the woofer and tweeter in series, nor do I now how safe this is, but it seems like a bad idea.

keep_hope_alive
03-13-2013, 02:11 PM
you put the bass blocker on the tweeter positive terminal.

you then wire the woofer and tweeter in parallel.

http://www.parts-express.com/resources/crossover-component-selection-guide_clip_image001_0000.gif

the impedance of the speaker determines the crossover point with a given crossover. this chart will help you

Crossover Component Selection Guide at Parts Express (http://www.parts-express.com/resources/crossover-component-selection-guide.cfm)

a single cap is a 6dB/octave crossover.

Wacky7
03-13-2013, 11:23 PM
ok. yea.. I think I got it

Yeah by going in series is a bad idea trumpet. That not what I had in mind.

What I am going to do is by wire them in parallel and put the capacitors/bass blocker on the positive side on the tweeter. But I thought maybe they will becomes 2 ohm by doing this.

I have also thought the capacitors will change it hertz freq by going parallel. Because of two speaker on the same line.

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

BrownVanMan
03-13-2013, 11:29 PM
wiring in parallel will give your amp a 2 ohm ohm load but if you dont put a low pass on the mid you might burn it up.

Wacky7
03-13-2013, 11:44 PM
Brownvanman I think the mid rating is at 10hz to 4,000hz and the amp is at is at 20hz to 20,000hz. The tweeter is in blocker of 0hz to 5,600hz above that 5,600 is ok for the tweeter. So you saying I need something for the mid to block above the 4,000 hz?

keep_hope_alive
03-14-2013, 12:21 AM
your amp will not see a 2 ohm load because you wired your mid and tweeter in parallel.

there are several reasons for this and it all comes down to the concept of impedance.

we say a speaker is "4 ohms" but that is just a nominal value. the actual impedance varies with frequency and 4 ohm is the minimum.

this is a 6.5" woofer
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/audio%20testing/OzAudio_CS180_2-1.jpg

this is a 4" mid
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/audio%20testing/OzAudioMidrange01.jpg

this is a 1" tweeter
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/audio%20testing/OzAudio_tweeter01.jpg

the impedance of the larger woofer or mid rapidly increases at some point. when wired in parallel the amp sees only one speaker at a time - even if the woofer doesn't have a low pass filter.


here is another set of speakers - Eclpise 8971 component set

tweeter only
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/audio%20testing/Eclipse8971_WT3_tweeter.jpg

woofer only
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/audio%20testing/Eclipse8971_WT3_woofer.jpg

now let's look at what happens with a passive crossover (woofer and tweeter)
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/audio%20testing/Eclipse8971_WT3_crossover.jpg

the filter network drives the impedance low around 5kHz to boost output. clearly, the woofer isn't playing a role here since it's impedance is 10 ohms at 5kHz.

now let's wire two component sets in parallel
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/audio%20testing/Eclipse8971_WT3_parallelcrossovers.jpg

and let's compare wiring them in series
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/audio%20testing/Eclipse8971_WT3_seriescrossovers.jpg


lastly, there is such little signal strength at high frequencies, a lower impedance is never a worry.

keep_hope_alive
03-14-2013, 12:24 AM
some more:

this is a 2 ohm woofer - a ID CX62
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/audio%20testing/IDCX62_good.jpg

and the matching NX30 tweeter
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/audio%20testing/IDNX30_2.jpg

and wired through the crossover
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/audio%20testing/IDCX62_comp_L.jpg

keep_hope_alive
03-14-2013, 12:25 AM
You can't wire these speakers that way. The woofers and tweeters either need to be on separate amplifier channels or you need to use passive crossovers appropriate for the job. Bass blockers are just capacitors. I don't know how they will behave if you try to wire the woofer and tweeter in series, nor do I now how safe this is, but it seems like a bad idea.

as you can see, wiring in series simply doubles the impedance seen at any frequency. it's not desirable simply because the impedance peaks are so high the sound will be very unbalanced.

Wacky7
03-14-2013, 03:49 AM
Awesome.. Now I understand. Thanks you very much. I am in the stage of understanding and learning.

My last tweeter was cheap and nasty chrispy blown out made by GT gravity GT100 and they told me it already got a blockers on it which they lied to me. I wanted to buy some real nice tweeter but didn't have the money for it. I was even scared to even blown a high fancy tweeters up. I already spend a lot on a old truck which doesn't need all that high $ equipment on it. And till now as you know free kenwood tweeters from a friend of mine. I did some three hour tuning on it. Sounded a lot better.

This system how it hooked up as: Deck Kenwood DNX 690HD the Equalizer is turned all the way max and loudness is on and Qx is on. Sub is on. Sub level is 0. X Crossover is on standard.

The front channel from preout is connected to an audio cable into a Kicker 03KQ30 30-Band Equalizer.
The rear channel preout is running a 2nd Kicker 03KQ30 30-Band Equalizer.
Both of the Kicker Equalizer hook up to the Kenwood XR-5 amplifier for front and rear channel for the 4 channel.
The amplifier LP/HP is off straight full range sound for the 4 channel.
The kenwood deck did sounded like a boombox without the two kicker equalizer. Trust me it was awful for a SQ system.
The two kenwood tweeters in the front doors have the regular bass blocker/crossover/capacitors that came with the components KFC P709ps it is rated at 4.9khz and the CDT M6+ midrange subwoofers is parallel.
The other two kenwood tweeters are in the back doors with the stinger blocker/crossover/capacitors rated at 5.6 khz and the CDT M6+ midrange subwoofers is in parallel.
Remember The blocker/crossover/capacitors is not hook up to the mids.They are running straight from the amp.
The Deck Subwoofer preout channel audio cable is hook up to the Kenwood XR-5 amplifier. The amp already have a LP filters on it is doing 20-150hz.
I have to tell you guys it sound nice. Very nice complete Hi-FI sound watching DVD and jamming out DTS music by The Eagles lol..

Anyway I thanks you guys again. You guys rocks!!

keep_hope_alive
03-14-2013, 07:45 AM
good deal.

that's a lot of EQ flexibility.

you should avoid maxing out signals from the head unit until you've verified on an oscilloscope that the HU won't send clipped signals out with them maxed (or contact Kenwood and ask them). it also depends on how much volume you use.

you should pay attention to what the mids are doing and at least put a subsonic high pass on them. basically filter them below their range.

i've found that my best sound comes from minimal EQ, no boost, no sound enhancements, and lots of head unit volume. what sounds quieter and dull at first will quickly reveal itself to be natural and revealing. i want my system to do what a great pair of headphones does - give me all of the detail and nuances. when I do use an EQ, I use it to cut frequencies. I avoid boost whenever possible, and if I need boost somewhere, I look at the speaker installation and crossover points before I look to an EQ.

for example, i only have a 5-band parametric, and I only use 3 of the 5. and my system has the best response it's had - better than when I ran an Alpine H701 will dedicated 31 band EQ for each speaker. with the H701 myself and other acoustic engineers spent time listening and tweaking the EQ. the result was always something nice but not natural. i improved my speaker installation with new techniques and did away with the EQ/processor and everything is better.

that's not to say that a processor is a bad thing. i do like them and they are useful - mostly for time alignment and crossover flexibility. a flexible crossover is so much more important than an EQ. clarity is achieve when you limit the range of each speaker based on location and capability.

Wacky7
03-15-2013, 02:16 AM
Yeah I understand. Here a pic of what I meant maxed out just all in hz range far in level I wouldn't go that far lol. The max that does clipped out above the 6 on the levels. I do play around with it which goes louder in the level sound range. If I ever needed more sound area and loudness into the speaker 1-3 good enough. Going above level to 8 you can hear the distortion sound when gaining at a louder volume pass 26. Bringing in level 0. I can hear distorted at pass 30 so I guess that is max for the HU
As far as my mids goes. It doesn't really need a HPF from what it does 25hz to 4,000hz it does play fine the max is 120 Watts RMS and I am doing 80 watts RMS kind of a under powered for this mids.

http://tinypic.com/r/16hvryf/6

---------- Post added at 01:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 AM ----------

http://tinypic.com/r/16hvryf/6


Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting (http://tinypic.com/r/16hvryf/6)

keep_hope_alive
03-15-2013, 03:06 PM
cool