PDA

View Full Version : sealed vs ported for sq that packs a punch for a single orion hcca 10.2



HellafideH3
03-09-2013, 10:30 AM
I have a single orion HCCA 10.2 being pushed by a Fosgate T1500.1 BDCP
I have it in a ported tuned to 45hz spl box now but cant play most music through it was wondering
If I put it in a sealed and crank up my amp would it still hit with a punch?

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 10:32 AM
Those subs weren't really designed for sealed IIRC. Just do a lower tuned ported box. Maybe 32 hz or so.

plugger
03-09-2013, 11:21 AM
yeah and dont 'crank up' your amp

blobb454
03-09-2013, 11:25 AM
Ported. Allows for sub to "move" more easily for better response.

Bettr n' Revrse
03-09-2013, 12:02 PM
Not gunna get much SQ out of a HCCA anyway but ported would be best for it

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 12:06 PM
Ported. Allows for sub to "move" more easily for better response.

Actually, sealed boxes have better response. Just an FYI.

Beatin'
03-09-2013, 12:13 PM
Actually, sealed boxes have better response. Just an FYI.

not if the sub has really stiff mechanical suspension.

ciaonzo
03-09-2013, 12:17 PM
lulz @ trying to use that HCCA for 'SQ'.

ciaonzo
03-09-2013, 12:20 PM
not if the sub has really stiff mechanical suspension.Might be time to pick up a book, bro. Just sayin'.

---------- Post added at 10:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 AM ----------


Ported. Allows for sub to "move" more easily for better response.Not sure if troll or...

HellafideH3
03-09-2013, 12:21 PM
Thats what I had thought and true actual dbs right? Not a seemingly. Heavier bass like a ported, the manual says for best sq to go sealed I was just wondering if it would feel any different.I have my gain at half throttle and it makes the sub smoke it stinks up my H3 like its freakin on fire lol ive had eclipse titanium 12s back in the day in a sealed and they hhit so freakin hard and sounded amazing as far as sq this subs excursion is about the same

ciaonzo
03-09-2013, 12:22 PM
Thats what I had thought and true actual dbs right? Not a seemingly. Heavier bass like a ported, the manual says for best sq to go sealed I was just wondering if it would feel any different.I have my gain at half throttle and it makes the sub smoke it stinks up my H3 like its freakin on fire lol ive had eclipse titanium 12s back in the day in a sealed and they hhit so freakin hard and sounded amazing as far as sq this subs excursion is about the sameNot sure if troll or...

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 12:28 PM
not if the sub has really stiff mechanical suspension.

lulz

HellafideH3
03-09-2013, 12:32 PM
Wth is lulz? ......

ciaonzo
03-09-2013, 12:33 PM
That's us laughing.

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 12:34 PM
Wth is lulz? ......

People that have no business giving out advice trying to "help" make us laugh.

HellafideH3
03-09-2013, 12:38 PM
I got ya..

HellafideH3
03-09-2013, 12:41 PM
No im not trying to win sq comps just tryin to get thesub to play awider range of musik thats the reason I went with a 10 not the twelves

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 12:43 PM
No im not trying to win sq comps just tryin to get thesub to play awider range of musik thats the reason I went with a 10 not the twelves

Your logic is flawed, 12s reproduce music just as well as 10s do.

HellafideH3
03-09-2013, 12:46 PM
Rewlly wanted some feed back from some one who actuallyhad HCCA's or has dealt with them hands on

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 12:49 PM
I've dealt with them, but again it doesn't seem like you are listening or understanding what we are saying. Tune your box lower and you will enjoy everything more, and next time before buying a 10 because you think it will play a "wider range of musik" hop on here and ask for some advice.

Beatin'
03-09-2013, 12:52 PM
People that have no business giving out advice trying to "help" make us laugh.

explain how I'm wrong.

gckless
03-09-2013, 12:54 PM
explain how I'm wrong.

I encourage you to explain why you are right.

ciaonzo
03-09-2013, 12:54 PM
explain how I'm wrong.You explain why you're right, would seem more appropriate.

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 12:55 PM
explain how I'm wrong.

I'm also interested, please explain how you are right.

HellafideH3
03-09-2013, 12:58 PM
Me as well

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 01:25 PM
You are all confused. Ported can have just as good SQ as sealed but it won't happen if you buy a box off the shelf. And set the gain right before you smoke the sub, its not a "throttle". And 10s, 12s, 18s, can all play the same. If its the same series sub bigger will just be louder.

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 01:27 PM
You are all confused. Ported can have just as good SQ as sealed but it won't happen if you buy a box off the shelf. And set the gain right before you smoke the sub, its not a "throttle". And 10s, 12s, 18s, can all play the same. If its the same series sub bigger will just be louder.

Is that why all the big sq competitors use ported boxes!?!?





































They don't just in case you didn't catch the sarcasm...

They use IB or sealed most of the time.

gckless
03-09-2013, 01:28 PM
:wow:

This thread......

ciaonzo
03-09-2013, 01:28 PM
You are all confused. Ported can have just as good SQ as sealed but it won't happen if you buy a box off the shelf. And set the gain right before you smoke the sub, its not a "throttle". And 10s, 12s, 18s, can all play the same. If its the same series sub bigger will just be louder.Nobody said vented enclosures aren't capable of providing any level of sound quality. "Just as good as sealed" is a stretch for all but a few.

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 01:41 PM
Cough cough. Scott's highest scoring run ever recorded... 4 th order.

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 01:44 PM
The reasoning behind the lower SQ ported is the roll off. Play within the bandpass and it sounds fine. Sealed wont have that roll off until the sub loses. Build up a good mid range and its fine.

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 01:58 PM
Cough cough. Scott's highest scoring run ever recorded... 4 th order.

Cough cough mark eldridge highest scoring vehicle the Nascar. Uses the 12 w6s in the kickpanels sealed.

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 02:02 PM
The reasoning behind the lower SQ ported is the roll off. Play within the bandpass and it sounds fine. Sealed wont have that roll off until the sub loses. Build up a good mid range and its fine.

The majority of sound quality cars have put a lot of time and effort into their installs, they chose what they chose because it makes the most sense and because it is what works best for their vehicle. Wether you like it or not, IB or sealed is optimal for sq, you can get a ported enclosure sounding very nice, but it still won't have the articulation.

Beatin'
03-09-2013, 02:03 PM
I encourage you to explain why you are right.

I believe that those subs with stiff suspensions need to have the appropriate amount of motor force to overcome that resistance. If not, they become mechanically over damped in a sealed box, leading to a faster drop off down the response curve, especially in a box that is smaller than the subs VAS rating, which are typically quite high with subs that have stiff suspensions.

And so a ported box is more appropriate for such subs to prevent excessive damping from robbing low end ouput.

If I'm wrong somewhere, show me, because I really would like to know.

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 02:04 PM
Cough cough mark eldridge highest scoring vehicle the Nascar. Uses the 12 w6s in the kickpanels sealed.

Mark was single seat I think. All I'm saying. If you design the ported alignment to do only what you need it to do its just as good as sealed.
Scott Buwalda Confirmed by IASCA as Having the Highest Scores at the North American*Championships - News - The Home of the World's Finest Loudspeakers, and World Championship Car Audio Speaker Systems. (http://hybrid-audio.com/blog/2012/5/7/scott-buwalda-confirmed-by-iasca-as-having-the-highest-score.html).

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 02:06 PM
The majority of sound quality cars have put a lot of time and effort into their installs, they chose what they chose because it makes the most sense and because it is what works best for their vehicle. Wether you like it or not, IB or sealed is optimal for sq, you can get a ported enclosure sounding very nice, but it still won't have the articulation.

But they have been proven to win??? How is that??? There has to be give and take. If you want flat out of ported you must lose output. If you want output you must lose flat.

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 02:09 PM
But they have been proven to win??? How is that??? There has to be give and take. If you want flat out of ported you must lose output. If you want output you must lose flat.

Sealed and IB have time and time again been proven to win out over ported though. There of course will be exceptions to the rule.

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 02:10 PM
When I tune for SQ you don't even know I have a monster ported sub stage in the back.

Back to the op. are we taking about real SQ or just something that sounds good?

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 02:10 PM
Mark was single seat I think. All I'm saying. If you design the ported alignment to do only what you need it to do its just as good as sealed.
Scott Buwalda Confirmed by IASCA as Having the Highest Scores at the North American*Championships - News - The Home of the World's Finest Loudspeakers, and World Championship Car Audio Speaker Systems. (http://hybrid-audio.com/blog/2012/5/7/scott-buwalda-confirmed-by-iasca-as-having-the-highest-score.html).

Mark does both single seat and 2 seat. I believe that the only reason that he beat mark at this show was due to his install, Mark's sq scores were higher than Scott's IIRC.

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 02:11 PM
When I tune for SQ you don't even know I have a monster ported sub stage in the back.

Back to the op. are we taking about real SQ or just something that sounds good?

When I tune for sq, you know that I have a very flat, very articulate sub stage.

He already stated he wants more daily than sq.

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 02:12 PM
Sealed and IB have time and time again been proven to win out over ported though. There of course will be exceptions to the rule.

Times are changing, software is getting better and so are drivers.

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 02:13 PM
Times are changing, software is getting better and so are drivers.

I would put money that the right IB sub in the right environment will score higher than the right vented sub in the right environment.

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 02:13 PM
When I tune for sq, you know that I have a very flat, very articulate sub stage.

He already stated he wants more daily than sq.

Can you jump over to the meter after you're judged and put up a good number?

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 02:15 PM
Can you jump over to the meter after you're judged and put up a good number?

I don't need to. My sub stage gets more than loud enough for me. If I want an spl car, I will go build one. Daily driving and sq mix very well in my book.

gckless
03-09-2013, 02:16 PM
I believe that those subs with stiff suspensions need to have the appropriate amount of motor force to overcome that resistance. If not, they become mechanically over damped in a sealed box, leading to a faster drop off down the response curve, especially in a box that is smaller than the subs VAS rating, which are typically quite high with subs that have stiff suspensions.

And so a ported box is more appropriate for such subs to prevent excessive damping from robbing low end ouput.

If I'm wrong somewhere, show me, because I really would like to know.

So essentially what you are saying is that pressure is higher in a sealed box and that over-damps a woofer with a stiff suspension?

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 02:17 PM
I don't need to. My sub stage gets more than loud enough for me. If I want an spl car, I will go build one. Daily driving and sq mix very well in my book.

I take that as a no.

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 02:18 PM
I take that as a no.

You should be taking it as a "I sound better than you" kind of insinuation.

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 02:21 PM
You should be taking it as a "I sound better than you" kind of insinuation.

You think so? Nah. I sound go from 110-148db.

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 02:23 PM
You think so? Nah.

Well, it does come down to personal opinion, but in the eyes of an sq judge, I believe the answer is more than obvious.

---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------


You think so? Nah. I sound go from 110-148db.

Son, you make 0 **** sense.

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 02:29 PM
Well, it does come down to personal opinion, but in the eyes of an sq judge, I believe the answer is more than obvious.

---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------



Son, you make 0 **** sense.

Nobody takes my car serious. Lol. It's very competitive, I'm no *******. Can it hang with a purpose built car? No. I don't have to go up against to make purpose built cars though.

But on a serious note... It sounds just as good at low volume that it does full tilt. Any louder I think it will start falling apart

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 02:34 PM
Nobody takes my car serious. Lol. It's very competitive, I'm no *******. Can it hang with a purpose built car? No. I don't have to go up against to make purpose built cars though.

But on a serious note... It sounds just as good at low volume that it does full tilt. Any louder I think it will start falling apart

Maybe if you ditch those Hertz components you might have a shot at a sq comp =P

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 02:57 PM
Maybe if you ditch those Hertz components you might have a shot at a sq comp =P

Funny guy.

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 02:58 PM
Funny guy.

I don't like Hertz though in all honesty. Their markup is extreme and for the same money you can get much nicer sets.

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 03:02 PM
I don't like Hertz though in all honesty. Their markup is extreme and for the same money you can get much nicer sets.

Your opinion. I trust Audison. I trust their SPL branch.

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 03:05 PM
I can't think of any other component that can keep up and still stay very smooth.

ciaonzo
03-09-2013, 03:07 PM
I believe that those subs with stiff suspensions need to have the appropriate amount of motor force to overcome that resistance. If not, they become mechanically over damped in a sealed box, leading to a faster drop off down the response curve, especially in a box that is smaller than the subs VAS rating, which are typically quite high with subs that have stiff suspensions.

And so a ported box is more appropriate for such subs to prevent excessive damping from robbing low end ouput.

If I'm wrong somewhere, show me, because I really would like to know.I think you should read up on and understand what T/S parameters look like for a 'sealed only' type of driver. Also take a look at why a suspension would need to be stiff, is it because the designer wanted it to be used in a tiny enclosure or is it because the BL mandates it? Or is it simply to reach the goal of having a certain Qts based on a given motor strength and a desired enclosure size?

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 03:12 PM
I can't think of any other component that can keep up and still stay very smooth.

PHD FB 6.1 pro for cheaper

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 03:22 PM
PHD FB 6.1 pro for cheaper

I don't think you understand how loud these XLs can get. The 28mm tweeter gets in bullet territory.

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 03:26 PM
I don't think you understand how loud these XLs can get. The 28mm tweeter gets in bullet territory.

I don't think you understand the quality you are getting when you buy PHD. I would put money on the fact that the mid from the fb pro set would dance circles around the xl mid in loudness and clarity. Also, I'd love to see a head to head sq comparison.

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 03:29 PM
I don't think you understand the quality you are getting when you buy PHD. I would put money on the fact that the mid from the fb pro set would dance circles around the xl mid in loudness and clarity. Also, I'd love to see a head to head sq comparison.

New kid on the block trying to prove something. Not you, PHD. You are talking about Audison engineers here. I've never heard another mid get as loud as PA without the short comings. I'm sure they are great products but come on.

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 03:35 PM
New kid on the block trying to prove something. Not you, PHD. You are talking about Audison engineers here. I've never heard another mid get as loud as PA without the short comings. I'm sure they are great products but come on.

lol dude PHD has been around since 91. They have won EMMA championships over Audison for YEARS. They had a bad experience when exporting to the US once before and got ripped off. They are trying again to bring them, that is why we don't know much about them over here.

NoLoud4U
03-09-2013, 03:37 PM
lol dude PHD has been around since 91. They have won EMMA championships over Audison for YEARS. They had a bad experience when exporting to the US once before and got ripped off. They are trying again to bring them, that is why we don't know much about them over here.

Didn't know that. Learned something new

PHD - USA
03-09-2013, 03:39 PM
Didn't know that. Learned something new

I wish I could import that sound clip that says "And now you know"