PDA

View Full Version : Bought set of tweeters, very quiet sound... are they blown/broken?



ckunke002
02-09-2013, 05:51 AM
I bought a set of Pioneer tweeters, 30 bucks for a pair, and they have rave reviews everywhere I've looked. I have coaxial speakers in each of my doors and then a sub, but at head level there are several places in the car that the highs are very low and drowned out by road noise and mids/bass.

I bought these tweeters to put more at head level on the door panels for each door. They are rated to handle 40 watts RMS but I don't have an amp to power them so I was going to run them off the head unit which can put out around 25.

Since I don't yet have time to install them into the door panels, I decided I just wanted to test em out and see how they sound. I unplugged the front door speakers from my 4x50 watt amp and hooked up the tweeters to it. At first I couldn't tell if they speaker wire wasn't connected to the output terminals properly because I couldn't even hear the tweeters over the rear coaxial speakers (which were still plugged in). I ended up unplugging all of the door speakers and turned up my system nearly all the way to just see if they would get loud. Nope... not at all. With my 500 watt sub and my door speakers, I can't imagine i'll hear these things at ALL. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, because my coaxials are sharing 50 watts between a mid bass driver and a tweeter, whereas these tweeters get the whole channel to themselves.

I was under the impression from reviews that the tweeters would scream, and really fill in the sound void. This is pretty underwhelming lol

Here they are: Pioneer TS-T110 (tst110) 7/8" Hard Dome Tweeters (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9132_Pioneer-TS-T110.html)

Anyone know what the deal might be? I know I can return them but I want to know if this is the way it's supposed to be or not.

ckunke002
02-09-2013, 05:58 AM
Side note... only a pretty small amount of wire is coming out of the jacket on the stock speaker wire for these things... Could that possibly (probably unlikely) be the problem, that I need to expose more of the wire?

Chriszle
02-09-2013, 06:06 AM
Not sure why you aren't getting enough sound. One problem might be that your head unit does not put out 25 watts per channel. Probably more like 10 RMS.

ckunke002
02-09-2013, 06:11 AM
I didn't hook it up to the head unit to test it, I hooked it up to my amp which can power it easily

TheUnderFighter
02-09-2013, 07:03 AM
I'm not sure why you aren't getting any output.... But there are a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings in your post. Too many to really point out for ya. If you wish to continue learning and growing in this hobby, I HIGHLY recommend you read around a lot more before you make another purchase. And read and reference this site, it has a TON of knowledge: Basic Car Audio Electronics (http://www.bcae1.com)

That being said. I have on theory. You're getting minimal noise when just the tweeter is connected. And you're getting no high-end when the coaxial is connected. It sounds to me like you have a High-Pass filter set on your amp, and it's cutting off the high-frequencies. I'd suggesting turning the crossovers to off, or full, or pass-through, or whatever option it is, and see if that changes the sound for ya.

ckunke002
02-09-2013, 07:48 AM
I'm not sure why you aren't getting any output.... But there are a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings in your post. Too many to really point out for ya. If you wish to continue learning and growing in this hobby, I HIGHLY recommend you read around a lot more before you make another purchase. And read and reference this site, it has a TON of knowledge: Basic Car Audio Electronics (http://www.bcae1.com)

That being said. I have on theory. You're getting minimal noise when just the tweeter is connected. And you're getting no high-end when the coaxial is connected. It sounds to me like you have a High-Pass filter set on your amp, and it's cutting off the high-frequencies. I'd suggesting turning the crossovers to off, or full, or pass-through, or whatever option it is, and see if that changes the sound for ya.

If you wouldn't mind, try to point out a couple misconceptions that you think I have. I've been working on my stereo for years and feel like I know a fair amount of what's going on.

My amp is always set to all pass, I deal with HP and LP filters on my headunit. The tweeters I bought have an in-line crossover so I understood that should take care of the crossover issue, although not as effectively as an external crossover would. My headunit has my speakers hi-passed at 100 hz, but even still with the inline crossover that seems to be mostly irrelevant.

pickup1
02-09-2013, 08:20 AM
Were the tweeters new when you bought them? Is the crossover made for the pioneers? Crossover point?

ckunke002
02-09-2013, 08:50 AM
Yes the tweeters were new, the crossover point is 7k and it's an inline crossover that came with the tweeters.

Thanks for the website Underfighter.. lot of good info in here. Been reading for about an hour.

Maybe I was just expecting something different, I don't really know. I don't have much experience with tweeters I was just expecting more sound. Maybe it's a lower freq range that I'm missing...

Any other thoughts guys?

av83
02-09-2013, 09:26 AM
Yes the tweeters were new, the crossover point is 7kand it's an inline crossover that came with the tweeters.
Thanks for the website Underfighter.. lot of good info in here. Been reading for about an hour.

Maybe I was just expecting something different, I don't really know. I don't have much experience with tweeters I was just expecting more sound. Maybe it's a lower freq range that I'm missing...

Any other thoughts guys?

That crossover point does seem quite high. Unless it's a REALLY gentle slope, but that would still be less than ideal. Most people really don't need more than two tweeters in their entire car. I would try either adding more power to the front coax's, and if that doesn't work, switch to a component set.

pickup1
02-09-2013, 09:36 AM
Yea...but you should be able to hear them pretty good on 50x2....I'm running 2-8 ohm (really 5 dc ohm) Dynaudio tweeters on an Audison 60 x2 and they get loud.

ckunke002
02-09-2013, 09:36 AM
That crossover point does seem quite high. Unless it's a REALLY gentle slope, but that would still be less than ideal. Most people really don't need more than two tweeters in their entire car. I would try either adding more power to the front coax's, and if that doesn't work, switch to a component set.

The slope is 6 db/octave. This might sound dumb but, a component speaker set is simply a set of mid-bass speakers and tweeters... how would that solve my treble problem? Just because components are often higher quality than coaxials? Because I already have the tweeters... Just more details would help

av83
02-09-2013, 09:48 AM
The slope is 6 db/octave. This might sound dumb but, a component speaker set is simply a set of mid-bass speakers and tweeters... how would that solve my treble problem? Just because components are often higher quality than coaxials? Because I already have the tweeters... Just more details would help

Because more "treble" comes from the mids than you think, that's why I brought it up. Honestly, they should get kinda loud on fifty watts each. Try another source of power. If they still don't have much sound, return/exchange them.

ckunke002
02-09-2013, 09:50 AM
How much did your audison cost you? And yeah it's hard to say... any other thoughts?

ckunke002
02-09-2013, 09:53 AM
Because more "treble" comes from the mids than you think, that's why I brought it up. Honestly, they should get kinda loud on fifty watts each. Try another source of power. If they still don't have much sound, return/exchange them.

Any suggested brands for a good component set? Could it maybe be that my 4 channel full range amp simply doesn't cover >7k very well?

mlstrass
02-09-2013, 10:01 AM
you've never heard just tweeters playing and expected more, happens all the time. People seem to have no idea how little sound comes out of just tweeters.....And I run a ton of supertweeters and by themselves it's still not very loud.

Play them WITH the coax's and you should notice a diff up top, but if you need more overall volume then get better speakers/more power...

ckunke002
02-09-2013, 10:04 AM
you've never heard just tweeters playing and expected more, happens all the time. People seem to have no idea how little sound comes out of just tweeters.....And I run a ton of supertweeters and by themselves it's still not very loud.

Play them WITH the coax's and you should notice a diff up top, but if you need more overall volume then get better speakers/more power...

This was what I was beginning to think as well. Thanks for the answer

04silverz
02-09-2013, 10:06 AM
Amp should be good for thst freq range as 4 channels are designed to run mids/highs usually. Audison is a higher end brand but u can normally find a good deal used. As most companies they have lower end lines on up to high dollar.
Not sure on budget but most that run the ID ctx series rave about them. Also the jbl ms series i believe it is gets great reviews. If willing to spend over 2 or 250 then the options are wide open

av83
02-09-2013, 10:07 AM
Any suggested brands for a good component set? Could it maybe be that my 4 channel full range amp simply doesn't cover >7k very well?

No, even a mediocre amp isn't going to do that. Stay tuned for component suggestions, lol. People love to suggest here... For what you want, maybe the infinity components would do you well. What amp are you using? You probably want more than 50 watts a channel If you're looking for louder highs. I know my old 40x4 wasn't cutting it.

04silverz
02-09-2013, 10:08 AM
Mlstrass brings up a good point. With the 80prs im easily able to mute each rca out and its weird hearing how thin and tinny sounding tweeters are. Then when everythijg is playing together it sounds great

ckunke002
02-09-2013, 10:21 AM
No, even a mediocre amp isn't going to do that. Stay tuned for component suggestions, lol. People love to suggest here... For what you want, maybe the infinity components would do you well. What amp are you using? You probably want more than 50 watts a channel If you're looking for louder highs. I know my old 40x4 wasn't cutting it.

I'm currently using a Rockford prime 300.. it's really worked great for me with the coaxials. In certain places in the car there are major quiet spots.. especially in the back combined with the road noise. I will probably just have to upgrade to a component set sometime soon.

pickup1
02-09-2013, 10:31 AM
How much did your audison cost you? And yeah it's hard to say... any other thoughts?

Its for sale for 120 shipped .....obo...

ckunke002
02-09-2013, 11:18 AM
Nice! How'd you like it?

Lowflyin
02-09-2013, 11:56 AM
Are they 4 or 8 ohm tweets. You may only be getting like 3-5w @ 8 ohm from your head unit if that's what they are.

pickup1
02-09-2013, 12:13 PM
very nice and clean,pretty small too.just wanted to go with all matching amps..

TheUnderFighter
02-09-2013, 01:39 PM
Are they 4 or 8 ohm tweets. You may only be getting like 3-5w @ 8 ohm from your head unit if that's what they are.

They are connected to his amp. Being 8 ohms might have something to do with it, if that were the case.
Also, what amp do you have OP?

audiobaun
02-09-2013, 04:44 PM
New KickerŪ KS25 Car Stereo Audio 1" Titanium Dome Tweeters 300W 11KS25 Pair 713034020424 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-KICKER-KS25-CAR-STEREO-AUDIO-1-TITANIUM-DOME-TWEETERS-300W-11KS25-PAIR-/140898840909?pt=Car_Speakers&hash=item20ce39b14d)
You want a tweeter that you can hear?These are it..Ive tried so many different tweeters in my pillars, it stupidly rediculous.Ive blown tweets ect, but I went right back to these, and couldnt be happier.you put 40-50+ on these jokers, and they do nothing but SCREAM!!Yes sir $100 bill, but well worth the money,and will be the last set of tweets you ever buy.Ive heard the ones you have..Not impressed by any means,fine to add/enhance for a bit of highs, but just that ..enhance.I run my tweets at and around 10k up to 17k even,but mellow around 12k seems to be great for a wide range of music in my set up/@0db.Sell those tweets, and put the funds towards these..you will never be happier,,You put 100 rms on them,,They wiil peirce,cant sit near them.lol

ckunke002
02-10-2013, 01:15 AM
They are connected to his amp. Being 8 ohms might have something to do with it, if that were the case.
Also, what amp do you have OP?

It's the Prime 300 that i mentioned a few posts back... 50x4 at 4 ohms and the tweets are 4 ohms

ckunke002
02-10-2013, 01:18 AM
New KickerŪ KS25 Car Stereo Audio 1" Titanium Dome Tweeters 300W 11KS25 Pair 713034020424 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-KICKER-KS25-CAR-STEREO-AUDIO-1-TITANIUM-DOME-TWEETERS-300W-11KS25-PAIR-/140898840909?pt=Car_Speakers&hash=item20ce39b14d)
You want a tweeter that you can hear?These are it..Ive tried so many different tweeters in my pillars, it stupidly rediculous.Ive blown tweets ect, but I went right back to these, and couldnt be happier.you put 40-50+ on these jokers, and they do nothing but SCREAM!!Yes sir $100 bill, but well worth the money,and will be the last set of tweets you ever buy.Ive heard the ones you have..Not impressed by any means,fine to add/enhance for a bit of highs, but just that ..enhance.I run my tweets at and around 10k up to 17k even,but mellow around 12k seems to be great for a wide range of music in my set up/@0db.Sell those tweets, and put the funds towards these..you will never be happier,,You put 100 rms on them,,They wiil peirce,cant sit near them.lol

Man I wish i went with those LOL.. they look great. But in the meantime I don't have an amp to give them even the 40/50 that you suggest... I definitely will remember those though for my next setup..

audiobaun
02-10-2013, 01:24 AM
Cant go wrong with those Tweets at all..After you hook those up, you will never buy another.i thought I could find a better tweet that would keep up with my 4 tens..not so..These do though,and easily.Worth every penny:)

ckunke002
02-10-2013, 01:31 AM
Cant go wrong with those Tweets at all..After you hook those up, you will never buy another.i thought I could find a better tweet that would keep up with my 4 tens..not so..These do though,and easily.Worth every penny:)

What 10's do you have, what amp do you hook up the tweets to and how many of the tweeters did your car need?

audiobaun
02-10-2013, 01:40 AM
I have these old school USA made subs,in 2.0 cu ft tuned @32HTZ Per chamber,on the New American Bass VFL Mini Hybrid 4480.1d mono amps @2ohm,one amp per set of subs,and running the 150.4 Mini Hybrid VFL also,and running an Autotek BTS 7050 on the Kicker Tweets26539928

audiobaun
02-10-2013, 01:46 AM
I am running one set of the Kicker KS25 tweets in the A- pillars, one set of CDT in armrest pillar, and a dedicated tweet on a CDT Briaxl 6.5, on each door,and a 6.5 CDT Cl-60..I couldnt hear the Infinity Kappas/CDT/Polks/Massive/JBL/Beyma/DLS/a few other tweets in the A pillars.But these KS25 are in your Face! which is what I needed, and can adjust off my preamp EQ

ckunke002
02-10-2013, 01:57 AM
I am running one set of the Kicker KS25 tweets in the A- pillars, one set of CDT in armrest pillar, and a dedicated tweet on a CDT Briaxl 6.5, on each door,and a 6.5 CDT Cl-60..I couldnt hear the Infinity Kappas/CDT/Polks/Massive/JBL/Beyma/DLS/a few other tweets in the A pillars.But these KS25 are in your Face! which is what I needed, and can adjust off my preamp EQ

Man.. that is a serious setup! How do you like the 4 10's setup compared to any other sub setups you've had in the past? I have 1 boston G3 right now tuned to about 33hz giving it about 500w but my car is pretty small so it does me well. I've always wanted to try out a few 10s though.. i love the range they have.

audiobaun
02-10-2013, 02:02 AM
Pretty Insane in an Xcab truck! Ive got deadner through out, and it still moves some panels,roof ect..Dash kinda scares me at times,moves so much that I feel like the Air bags may go off! LOL..1000rms DVC 2ohm Audiobahn AW1008t 10s.USA Made/Discontinued

ckunke002
02-10-2013, 02:08 AM
that's pretty nutty... maybe i'll have to go for 2 10's someday here soon :D

audiobaun
02-10-2013, 02:08 AM
In 1989, (I had a 10/10in set up in a bed of a 1987 Toyota single cab with a matal Snugg Topthat I sealed with fiberglass insulation, and 1/2 plywood, and a spring loaded window Boot..That was the loudest system Ive ever had to date, with 1 vii Colossus,1 Vulcans,1 Odin, and 2 Plutos.with all JBL Mids and Highs.I dont have that kind of money these days to do that,and up in age for all that work involved..lol..

audiobaun
02-10-2013, 02:11 AM
that's pretty nutty... maybe i'll have to go for 2 10's someday here soon :D

Two good tens with the right air space will perform just as well as a pair of 12s..Ive been asked if I was running 4 15s when I drove up one day,running a pair of Old school Autotek BTS 7150 BTS amps@2ohms Mono@50%gain..lol

ckunke002
02-10-2013, 02:15 AM
That sounds like one cool truck... I'm not familiar with what colossus vulcans odin and plutos are... subs or amps?

This was before I was even born.. Lol

audiobaun
02-10-2013, 02:17 AM
That sounds like one cool truck... I'm not familiar with what colossus vulcans odin and plutos are... subs or amps?

This was before I was even born.. Lol

Yes..amps..Hifonics VII Series amps made By Steve Mantz/Zed,some true work horses:D

ckunke002
02-10-2013, 02:21 AM
Right on! Hey i had a question.. regarding airspace, if you were to put 2 10's into a single chamber box compared to a similar 2 12's... what generally would be the trend for best performance? As in tuning and cu. feet

audiobaun
02-10-2013, 02:34 AM
Right on! Hey i had a question.. regarding airspace, if you were to put 2 10's into a single chamber box compared to a similar 2 12's... what generally would be the trend for best performance? As in tuning and cu. feet

That may be something you would have to ask a builder.It really depends on the type /brand of subs being used as well,and tuning,By specs, but we all break the rules when it comes to specs.Specs are a basic guide for us to go by I feel.i myself ,do not like a Shared Chamber.I dont like subs moving in the same space, as well, as if one goes, You really dont have a choice to run a single sub very well with the other sub in the same airspace/not made for a single sub.It gives you options running a single chamber in my opinion.Most tens Ive ran really like a single chamber of 1.2-2.0 cu ft ported to approx 32-38 htz.Yet, it will depend on the sub,.Id ask some of the Box builders to get a Straight answer.

ckunke002
02-10-2013, 02:43 AM
Yeah I never really thought about that chamber theory that makes sense though. Thanks for all the advice! :D

zako
02-10-2013, 04:55 AM
I think the problem you're running to (OP) is that of matching the levels of different kinds of speakers with each other. Remember that your door speakers and tweeter may have different sensitivity. It's hard to believe that a tweeter can have such a low sensitivity, as a raw tweeter without passive crossover parts can get very loud on line 10 watts of power. However, you need to remember that these tweeters come with an in-line crossover network, which among other things may have some resistors for tweeter attenuation.

Adding a tweeter to a sound system with coaxial speakers is a mistake number 1 of car audio in my book. The issues you're observing are the reason I don't like the idea of just throwing a random tweeter into a sound system if you're not running active. You can have all sorts of weird interactions, even with matched levels (tweeter playing too low, not playing low enough, etc). If you're running active, you have the power to adjust the level as well as crossover slopes etc. But if you're not running active, the best you can do is to buy a component set. This will ensure that the passive crossover network was (hopefully) designed to match the level of tweeters with the supplied woofers. Of course, a lot of passive crossovers also get it wrong. This is why bi-amp or running active is a better way.

mlstrass
02-10-2013, 07:35 AM
Mlstrass brings up a good point. With the 80prs im easily able to mute each rca out and its weird hearing how thin and tinny sounding tweeters are. Then when everythijg is playing together it sounds great

Exactly. I run an 880 and when tuning do the same, mute mids/subs/tweets one at a time. I have 18 supertweeters off around 2000watts and by themselves they're not very loud at all.

Once OP gets it all playing at once I think it'll be fine...

mlstrass
02-10-2013, 07:40 AM
New KickerŪ KS25 Car Stereo Audio 1" Titanium Dome Tweeters 300W 11KS25 Pair 713034020424 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-KICKER-KS25-CAR-STEREO-AUDIO-1-TITANIUM-DOME-TWEETERS-300W-11KS25-PAIR-/140898840909?pt=Car_Speakers&hash=item20ce39b14d)
You want a tweeter that you can hear?These are it..Ive tried so many different tweeters in my pillars, it stupidly rediculous.Ive blown tweets ect, but I went right back to these, and couldnt be happier.you put 40-50+ on these jokers, and they do nothing but SCREAM!!Yes sir $100 bill, but well worth the money,and will be the last set of tweets you ever buy.Ive heard the ones you have..Not impressed by any means,fine to add/enhance for a bit of highs, but just that ..enhance.I run my tweets at and around 10k up to 17k even,but mellow around 12k seems to be great for a wide range of music in my set up/@0db.Sell those tweets, and put the funds towards these..you will never be happier,,You put 100 rms on them,,They wiil peirce,cant sit near them.lol

I would love to throw 300watts at those kickers and see how fast they smoke. NO normal tweeter will handle that kind of power, maybe some huge horn bodies.

So you have them high passed at 10Khz? That's what it looked like you said.

OP there are better tweeters out there for $100 if in fact that is really the issue....

mlstrass
02-10-2013, 07:45 AM
Right on! Hey i had a question.. regarding airspace, if you were to put 2 10's into a single chamber box compared to a similar 2 12's... what generally would be the trend for best performance? As in tuning and cu. feet

Size/tuning would depend upon subs/power/music mostly played/vehicle.

As for common vs shared, generally shared chamber will let you get away with less overall volume vs common. Meaning 2 subs that need 2.5^3 each will work ok in 4 - 4.5^3 shared chamber.