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AxT4430
02-05-2013, 11:27 AM
So, my question I pose to you all is if I get an active headunit will it erase the need for a stand alone equalizer between my amp and headunit?

Also, what is a good deck to get for a newb coming into active units.


Also, do active drivers have cross overs or do they just wire to your amp?

Do I need active crossovers?

What are good active drivers ( 6.5 or 7"/8")

What are good active tweets?

NASTY08IMPALA
02-05-2013, 11:29 AM
if you have a active capable amp and you.re hu has a through setting on it then u dont need a new hu

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 11:33 AM
if you have a active capable amp and you.re hu has a through setting on it then u dont need a new hu

Here is my setup ( passive):

Kenwood KDC HD552U ( not exact model, but similiar)
Polk DB 6501 6.5 component set ( passive cross overs)<----- ****
Aq 1200 amp
JBL Gto 1004
SPL 15"

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:33 PM ----------


if you have a active capable amp and you.re hu has a through setting on it then u dont need a new hu

does have a through setting
neo_styles;

NASTY08IMPALA
02-05-2013, 11:38 AM
Here is my setup ( passive):

Kenwood KDC HD552U ( not exact model, but similiar)
Polk DB 6501 6.5 component set ( passive cross overs)<----- ****
Aq 1200 amp
JBL Gto 1004
SPL 15"

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:33 PM ----------



does have a through setting
neo_styles;

not sire the specs on that amp but if it has full range freq adjustments for each channel then u wont need a new hu ..just remove the passive crossovers and set hu to thru then make adjustments on the amp ...its gona be tricky and time consuming to get set up the way u like

---------- Post added at 11:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------


Here is my setup ( passive):

Kenwood KDC HD552U ( not exact model, but similiar)
Polk DB 6501 6.5 component set ( passive cross overs)<----- ****
Aq 1200 amp
JBL Gto 1004
SPL 15"

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:33 PM ----------



does have a through setting
neo_styles;

not sire the specs on that amp but if it has full range freq adjustments for each channel then u wont need a new hu ..just remove the passive crossovers and set hu to thru then make adjustments on the amp ...its gona be tricky and time consuming to get set up the way u like

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 11:44 AM
what would a good set of freq adjustments be? Im pretty sure there is a full range.. I havent looked at my audioz for a while, and this summer I want to do an over-haul.. sealing my front doors, ho alt, new comp and tweets, and possibly new amps

Heres a pic of the jbl

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://soundgroup.co.nz/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/JBL%2520Car%2520Audio%2520GTO1004-4.gif&imgrefurl=http://soundgroup.co.nz/content/jbl-car-audio-gto1004&h=600&w=800&sz=82&tbnid=66ksjQ8ak99a4M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=120&zoom=1&usg=__u5Dy4tZFVRhgZm0F_bRtJkqan5o=&docid=s_6hATQJ3yv43M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6DYRUZSFLKmB0AH2p4GgBw&ved=0CFQQ9QEwAQ&dur=67

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 11:57 AM
So, the flat setting- Select for full-range speakers when no subwoofer will be used in the system.

Would i want an equalizer or new headunit to tune my front stage?

NASTY08IMPALA
02-05-2013, 12:01 PM
yea that only has front and rear so u cant do active just off the amp...i know the 80prs is a poular active hu

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 02:30 PM
ch
yea that only has front and rear so u cant do active just off the amp...i know the 80prs is a popular active hu

Whats better a quality dedicated equalizer or an active headunit with eq and parameter settings/ eq bands?

neo_styles; ***** get in here

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 02:35 PM
yea that only has front and rear so u cant do active just off the amp...i know the 80prs is a poular active hu

And thanks for all your input so far! Stay here lol

neo_styles
02-05-2013, 02:35 PM
Sorry for the delay. I prefer a HU with active crossover points since most will also let you adjust the slope. On the Eclipse I'm using now, I can go 6/12/18/24dB on the slope and the front stage will crossover down to 50Hz using passives. Haven't taken it to active mode yet, but I'm sure they cross more than high enough for the tweets.

As for drivers, really depends on the budget, but I really don't think you can beat the Dayton RS180 and RS textile dome tweets. Just need to fab something for the tweeters since they are large format. If that's a no-go, then Vifa makes a neo dome tweet that's pretty darn good and their VT25 is amazing as long as you keep it on axis

neo_styles
02-05-2013, 02:37 PM
You could also keep whatever HU you're running and have an external processor like the JBL MS8 or Rockford 3.sixty. PPI even came out with a proc that's supposed to go head-to-head with the Rockford unit.

TheUnderFighter
02-05-2013, 02:41 PM
Well, the less Things in way of the speakers, the better. So if you can find an active HU, that has it's own adequate EQ, that'd be the best case scenario. Pioneer 80prs, Pioneer P99, Alpine 9887, Alpine 7998, Alpine 9813, Alpine 9855, Eclipse CD5030, Eclipse cd7100, Eclipse CD7200 Mkii. <<< All of those are great active HU's. Some older, some newer, some in between. I think the cheapest you'd find on there would probably be a really good deal on the Alpine 9855, starting at like $150. Most of those units go for between $200-$300. Some for much more.
There's no such thing as an "active driver". Every driver is a driver. The drivers you have right now would work fine, you just remove the passive crossover. The benefit of running active, is you can piece together your own component set if you'd like. So if you were to piece together your own set, you'd be looking at "raw" drivers. Drivers sold separately and individually. Parts Express: the #1 source for audio, video & speaker building components (http://www.partsexpress.com) and Madisound Speaker Components: distributor of loudspeaker drivers and parts for speaker builders. (http://www.madisound.com) are good places to look for these DIY speakers. Most decent tweeters starting at $20-$30 a piece. And mids usually around $50 to be safe. Some can be cheaper. Many can be MUCH more expensive. Keep in mind, you don't NEED new speakers. You can still use the ones you currently have, you just remove the passive crossover.

neo_styles
02-05-2013, 02:44 PM
http://www.caraudio.com/forums/head-unit-classifieds/566872-alpine-cda-7998-a.html

There's a good unit that just popped up.

nismos14
02-05-2013, 02:45 PM
So, my question I pose to you all is if I get an active headunit will it erase the need for a stand alone equalizer between my amp and headunit?

Active crossovers have nothing to do with the equalizer. Most do have a pretty decent EQ built in.


Also, what is a good deck to get for a newb coming into active units.

There isn't one, you need to understand slopes, and crossover settings and what drivers need what before you jump into that. Most active decks have generally the same settings, so it's not like one will be easier than the other.



Also, do active drivers have cross overs or do they just wire to your amp?

"Active drivers" are just passive speakers. They have no crossover built in, that's what the active head unit is for.


Do I need active crossovers? Didn't you want to buy an "active" deck? Then why would you want active crossovers in addition to an active capable deck? :)


What are good active drivers ( 6.5 or 7"/8")

Far too many out there you'd have to try to find as many reviews as you can on drivers to see.


What are good active tweets?

See above.

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 02:47 PM
Sorry for the delay. I prefer a HU with active crossover points since most will also let you adjust the slope. On the Eclipse I'm using now, I can go 6/12/18/24dB on the slope and the front stage will crossover down to 50Hz using passives. Haven't taken it to active mode yet, but I'm sure they cross more than high enough for the tweets.

As for drivers, really depends on the budget, but I really don't think you can beat the Dayton RS180 and RS textile dome tweets. Just need to fab something for the tweeters since they are large format. If that's a no-go, then Vifa makes a neo dome tweet that's pretty darn good and their VT25 is amazing as long as you keep it on axis

I've always heard good things about dayton as a company, so if those arent to expensive for my blood I will probably stick there. I do need new comps, my polks have been abused and either the tweeter or the driver on the passenger side is starting to fail and distort horribly..

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 02:49 PM
Well, the less Things in way of the speakers, the better. So if you can find an active HU, that has it's own adequate EQ, that'd be the best case scenario. Pioneer 80prs, Pioneer P99, Alpine 9887, Alpine 7998, Alpine 9813, Alpine 9855, Eclipse CD5030, Eclipse cd7100, Eclipse CD7200 Mkii. <<< All of those are great active HU's. Some older, some newer, some in between. I think the cheapest you'd find on there would probably be a really good deal on the Alpine 9855, starting at like $150. Most of those units go for between $200-$300. Some for much more.
There's no such thing as an "active driver". Every driver is a driver. The drivers you have right now would work fine, you just remove the passive crossover. The benefit of running active, is you can piece together your own component set if you'd like. So if you were to piece together your own set, you'd be looking at "raw" drivers. Drivers sold separately and individually. Parts Express: the #1 source for audio, video & speaker building components (http://www.partsexpress.com) and Madisound Speaker Components: distributor of loudspeaker drivers and parts for speaker builders. (http://www.madisound.com) are good places to look for these DIY speakers. Most decent tweeters starting at $20-$30 a piece. And mids usually around $50 to be safe. Some can be cheaper. Many can be MUCH more expensive. Keep in mind, you don't NEED new speakers. You can still use the ones you currently have, you just remove the passive crossover.

KISS method works best, it seems! Alright, thankyou so much for such a detailed response! Do you reccommend any tweeters if I pair them with dayton rs-180?

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 02:51 PM
Active crossovers have nothing to do with the equalizer. Most do have a pretty decent EQ built in.



There isn't one, you need to understand slopes, and crossover settings and what drivers need what before you jump into that. Most active decks have generally the same settings, so it's not like one will be easier than the other.




"Active drivers" are just passive speakers. They have no crossover built in, that's what the active head unit is for.

Didn't you want to buy an "active" deck? Then why would you want active crossovers in addition to an active capable deck? :)



Far too many out there you'd have to try to find as many reviews as you can on drivers to see.



See above.

Sorry, its obvious im confused.. I have a lot of learning with slopes and eq settings. Is there any sources on here that I will introduce me or just dive in?

neo_styles
02-05-2013, 02:51 PM
Anything that'll cross over down to 1.5-2K will work well with the RS180. Vifa VT25s have been known to work well with them, but like I said before, need to be installed on axis.

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 02:53 PM
As of right now, Im aiming towards going active with good gear, but keeping it simple.

Ex. of what I mean:

Buy active headunit like alpine 7998

Buy dayton 6.5's and tweeters ( 2-way)

and continue fixing up my doors and alternator issues.

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 02:54 PM
Anything that'll cross over down to 1.5-2K will work well with the RS180. Vifa VT25s have been known to work well with them, but like I said before, need to be installed on axis.

I've heard "on axis" many times but do you mean on axis with reference to my ears? on the same plane?

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 03:00 PM
what am I looking at for bluetooth or aux input as a necessary feature for my next active head unit? I use pandora as my source, convience bro's..

nismos14
02-05-2013, 03:02 PM
The two best units around right now are the Clarion CZ702 an the Pioneer DEH-80PRS, I would say the pioneer is a better bet because it provides you two USB inputs, however if I were to pick one up it would the CZ702.

TheUnderFighter
02-05-2013, 03:14 PM
On axis means pointed at your ears or face in a direct line iirc. Some people aim the speakers away from them to get a different, sometimes betters, sound. This is all subjective, and will be determined by you, since you will be listening. Dayton makes good stuff. I have the "Vifa Ring Radiator" tweets. Mine came without a mounting flange, and I put them in spheres. They do make them with a mounting flange as well, and that gives another way to mount them. e.g: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/advanced-sql-spl-discussion/534484-tweeter-spheres-pics-examples.html
Those are not mine... but those are the same tweets I have, and that guy built the spheres for me too.

neo_styles
02-05-2013, 03:22 PM
what am I looking at for bluetooth or aux input as a necessary feature for my next active head unit? I use pandora as my source, convience bro's..

Keep in mind that you'll lose some SQ using BT audio. I recommend the USB, personally, if you're not going to use CDs

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 03:39 PM
The two best units around right now are the Clarion CZ702 an the Pioneer DEH-80PRS, I would say the pioneer is a better bet because it provides you two USB inputs, however if I were to pick one up it would the CZ702.

Im diggin that clarion, dont 80prs have problems with the pico fuse?

---------- Post added at 08:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------


Keep in mind that you'll lose some SQ using BT audio. I recommend the USB, personally, if you're not going to use CDs

I have some mass storage devices, I should start utilizing those! btw, nice sig!

wickedwitt
02-05-2013, 03:40 PM
ch

Whats better a quality dedicated equalizer or an active headunit with eq and parameter settings/ eq bands?

neo_styles; ***** get in here

There isn't a better quality active HU, unless you want to drop $1,000+

EDIT: Just install it properly and you won't have pico fuse problems. It is also easily fixed if it does blow and you end up with noise.

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 03:41 PM
On axis means pointed at your ears or face in a direct line iirc. Some people aim the speakers away from them to get a different, sometimes betters, sound. This is all subjective, and will be determined by you, since you will be listening. Dayton makes good stuff. I have the "Vifa Ring Radiator" tweets. Mine came without a mounting flange, and I put them in spheres. They do make them with a mounting flange as well, and that gives another way to mount them. e.g: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/advanced-sql-spl-discussion/534484-tweeter-spheres-pics-examples.html
Those are not mine... but those are the same tweets I have, and that guy built the spheres for me too.

Do you know if this fellow would make another set, if so how much were yours?

TheUnderFighter
02-05-2013, 05:17 PM
Do you know if this fellow would make another set, if so how much were yours?

Absolutely. I believe he's doing something around $40 a set. You could always PM him directly to find out though, he's exceptionally helpful. If you get different tweeters, you may have to have them shipped to him so he can make the spheres. Those are details you guys could sort out.
The Pico fuse isn't typically an issue if you install correctly. If it becomes an issue, it can be fixed.
And I would highly recommend NOT streaming through BT Audio if you want it to sound good. Best bet is either CD's, or USB devices.

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 05:35 PM
trivial question but where do you guys connect your signal wires in your cars? I have a 02 honda civic ( no eld switch yet) and I have it connect to a acc radio fuse underneath my steering wheel fuse box.. but i keep disconnecting it every few months..

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 05:37 PM
Absolutely. I believe he's doing something around $40 a set. You could always PM him directly to find out though, he's exceptionally helpful. If you get different tweeters, you may have to have them shipped to him so he can make the spheres. Those are details you guys could sort out.
The Pico fuse isn't typically an issue if you install correctly. If it becomes an issue, it can be fixed.
And I would highly recommend NOT streaming through BT Audio if you want it to sound good. Best bet is either CD's, or USB devices.

gotcha, I have to read up on, after uploading them from youtube using our own music program in the dome, putting them on my thumb drive to access, or is it a simply drag and drop ordeal? I have a pc, fyi.

TheUnderFighter
02-05-2013, 06:02 PM
What do you mean by signal wires? Signal wires usually are referred to as RCAs. If that's the case, I can't imagine why yours are in the fuse-box haha. So there must be a translation error there.
You just make sure the thumb-drive is formatted properly (FAT32), and then copy the files overs. Most HU's have a "depth" limit for how many folders it can read deep. IE: Thumb drive>Music folder>Genre>Artist>Album>Track title
Having it go that deep might cause problems. Most people don't do that anyways, but I thought I'd point it out. I have mine: Thumbdrive>Artist>Album>track

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 06:09 PM
What do you mean by signal wires? Signal wires usually are referred to as RCAs. If that's the case, I can't imagine why yours are in the fuse-box haha. So there must be a translation error there.
You just make sure the thumb-drive is formatted properly (FAT32), and then copy the files overs. Most HU's have a "depth" limit for how many folders it can read deep. IE: Thumb drive>Music folder>Genre>Artist>Album>Track title
Having it go that deep might cause problems. Most people don't do that anyways, but I thought I'd point it out. I have mine: Thumbdrive>Artist>Album>track

Sorry the turn on/off signal wire on the amps

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 06:12 PM
What do you mean by signal wires? Signal wires usually are referred to as RCAs. If that's the case, I can't imagine why yours are in the fuse-box haha. So there must be a translation error there.
You just make sure the thumb-drive is formatted properly (FAT32), and then copy the files overs. Most HU's have a "depth" limit for how many folders it can read deep. IE: Thumb drive>Music folder>Genre>Artist>Album>Track title
Having it go that deep might cause problems. Most people don't do that anyways, but I thought I'd point it out. I have mine: Thumbdrive>Artist>Album>track

Its funny that you say it must be a translation.error,
Im in college and im taking a philosophy of science class that focuses thus far on the philosophy of language. The problem within each interdisciplinary field has terms and translations like causality in physics compared to biology with reaction.or impulses in synaptic connections which generally mean the same thing, buts its hard to use physicist language to understand biology, so Logical Positivists tried to create an encyclopedia to unify and solve this issue

gckless
02-05-2013, 07:13 PM
Its funny that you say it must be a translation.error,
Im in college and im taking a philosophy of science class that focuses thus far on the philosophy of language. The problem within each interdisciplinary field has terms and translations like causality in physics compared to biology with reaction.or impulses in synaptic connections which generally mean the same thing, buts its hard to use physicist language to understand biology, so Logical Positivists tried to create an encyclopedia to unify and solve this issue

Stop that.

If you're going with the RS180, then if you can fit the RS tweeter, it's tough to beat for the money. Dayton Audio RS28F-4 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter 275-140 (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=275-140) Only problem is that it's a 4" tweeter. But, again, if you can fit it, it's supposed to be bomb.

What's your budget, and where do you plan on crossing your subs/mids? What do you have for a substage?

Also, fwiw, I prefer to set crossovers on the HU. Gives a set number, and much easier typically.

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 07:38 PM
Stop that.

If you're going with the RS180, then if you can fit the RS tweeter, it's tough to beat for the money. Dayton Audio RS28F-4 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter 275-140 (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=275-140) Only problem is that it's a 4" tweeter. But, again, if you can fit it, it's supposed to be bomb.

What's your budget, and where do you plan on crossing your subs/mids? What do you have for a substage?

Also, fwiw, I prefer to set crossovers on the HU. Gives a set number, and much easier typically.

Well if Im buying the the clarion or pr80s then it will be around 500, gives me 200 for drivers and tweeters. Plan on crossing my spl 15"(tss motor) at 110 with the drivers, or is that too much of a range for my future drivers (dayton rs180's) (110hz-1khz or something) and the tweeters play the remainder.. not sure of what slopes cause I dont understand that yet.

Do you think the rs180's will have a good bass and clarity response if I seal off my doors in my honda civic like keephopealive?

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 07:39 PM
I have some mass storage devices, I should start utilizing those! btw, nice sig![/QUOTE]


The two best units around right now are the Clarion CZ702 an the Pioneer DEH-80PRS, I would say the pioneer is a better bet because it provides you two USB inputs, however if I were to pick one up it would the CZ702.

these are the options Im considering.

gckless
02-05-2013, 07:42 PM
Well if Im buying the the clarion or pr80s then it will be around 500, gives me 200 for drivers and tweeters. Plan on crossing my spl 15"(tss motor) at 110 with the drivers, or is that too much of a range for my comps (110hz-1khz or something) and the tweeters play the remainder.. not sure of what slopes cause I dont understand that yet.

Do you think the rs180's will have a good bass and clarity response if I seal off my doors in my honda civic like keephopealive?

Cross that sub at 80. The RS180's should play down to 80 just fine, they just don't like to play too high for mids in a two way, no higher than 1.8k from what I have seen. But, that's not a big deal, just get a tweeter that will play that low. The RS tweeter I linked will do that perfectly.

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 07:46 PM
Cross that sub at 80. The RS180's should play down to 80 just fine, they just don't like to play too high for mids in a two way, no higher than 1.8k from what I have seen. But, that's not a big deal, just get a tweeter that will play that low. The RS tweeter I linked will do that perfectly.

Got any help with this scalar(db) **** like 6db/12db/... slope ****?

gckless
02-05-2013, 07:50 PM
Got any help with this scalar(db) **** like 6db/12db/... slope ****?

Do some reading man. You may not be ready to go active.

Subs/mids are usually at 24dB/octave, mids/tweets are basically what sounds good to you and the capabilities of your equipment.

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 07:52 PM
Do some reading man. You may not be ready to go active.

Subs/mids are usually at 24dB/octave, mids/tweets are basically what sounds good to you and the capabilities of your equipment.

I'm sure I'm not ready, I have till summer.. any sources of information for me to start at?

Thankyou for all the interest so far


And To everyone else, Im grateful! Ill keep this handy till summer then I'll likely ask again to clarify my purchases..

gckless
02-05-2013, 08:00 PM
I'm sure I'm not ready, I have till summer.. any sources of information for me to start at?

Thankyou for all the interest so far


And To everyone else, Im grateful! Ill keep this handy till summer then I'll likely ask again to clarify my purchases..

I don't have something specifically, but DIYMA. Just go start reading, start at the stickies, and anything that looks like it might apply to active, speaker selection, location, crossover, anything dude. There's probably a sticky or two here as well.

AxT4430
02-05-2013, 08:13 PM
I don't have something specifically, but DIYMA. Just go start reading, start at the stickies, and anything that looks like it might apply to active, speaker selection, location, crossover, anything dude. There's probably a sticky or two here as well.

Do i have to pay ?! :up2somet: lmao

or

Is that caco?

gckless
02-05-2013, 08:18 PM
Do i have to pay ?! :up2somet: lmao

or

Is that caco?

Don't have to pay for either to participate in the forum. CACO requires an upgraded account to sell something, DIYMA requires 100 posts to sell I believe.

trumpet
02-06-2013, 10:54 AM
I'm gonna get crucified for this but I think Bluetooth streaming music should definitely be tried if you have the chance. I use it every day on my CZ702 and with the heater blowing every second I'm driving I don't give a **** if I'm losing 2% of "detail" in my music, it still sounds good and I can rock out. I don't drive around listening to reference discs, I listen to bands that play loud.

nismos14
02-06-2013, 10:59 AM
You likely loose more detail than that with just road noise, lol

TheUnderFighter
02-07-2013, 04:22 AM
For me, maybe it's just my HU, but I could easily tell the difference on Bluetooth. It sounded kinda like radio connection. But it was convenient at times.

The on/off wire, also known as the "remote wire" will run from the wiring harness on your HU, to your amps.

And just keep reading, that's how I learned anything. Read anything you can, and take it all for a grain of salt. Everything works different for everyone.

Mids usually start crossing around 80hz. That's also usually the highest you'll want your subs playing. You might have your mids crossed higher with a lower dB slope. Or have them crossed lower with a sharper dB slope. You just gotta play with it, depending on driver selection and musical preference. I think the Pioneer 80prs is the best option for you. Best to learn on for newbies. It's the most noob friendly.

Basic Guide-read this before posting - DIYMA Car Audio Forum (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/65359-basic-guide-read-before-posting.html)

On-axis vs off-axis - DIYMA Car Audio Forum (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/136438-axis-vs-off-axis.html)

couple good reads there

Oh, also.... www.bcae1.com

AxT4430
02-07-2013, 04:32 AM
For me, maybe it's just my HU, but I could easily tell the difference on Bluetooth. It sounded kinda like radio connection. But it was convenient at times.

The on/off wire, also known as the "remote wire" will run from the wiring harness on your HU, to your amps.

And just keep reading, that's how I learned anything. Read anything you can, and take it all for a grain of salt. Everything works different for everyone.

Mids usually start crossing around 80hz. That's also usually the highest you'll want your subs playing. You might have your mids crossed higher with a lower dB slope. Or have them crossed lower with a sharper dB slope. You just gotta play with it, depending on driver selection and musical preference. I think the Pioneer 80prs is the best option for you. Best to learn on for newbies. It's the most noob friendly.

Basic Guide-read this before posting - DIYMA Car Audio Forum (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/65359-basic-guide-read-before-posting.html)

On-axis vs off-axis - DIYMA Car Audio Forum (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/136438-axis-vs-off-axis.html)

couple good reads there

Oh, also.... Basic Car Audio Electronics (http://www.bcae1.com)

Thanks alot! Since i cant sleep pm best price shipped to 44314! I can get a bnib
Cz702 from 150-200 shipped! With sleeve and harness specific to vehicle!

AxT4430
02-10-2013, 11:08 PM
Hey guys update here:

I purchased a clarion cz702(on its way here) from Timmy( great seller) on here.. I will be using my polk audio 6501 2 way set until summer, unless I sell off my subwoofer or broken aq1200..

So, Im wondering where I should start at with crossover points and slopes? The crossover is a 2nd order. Although Im not sure where it crosses over at, or why its listed as 2nd order as my passive attentuation is (iirc) -3db to +3db... so, im probably just confusing the 2nd order (12db/octave?) passive cross over

I also will try and place them in my honda civic sail panel's or a pillar with either keep_hope_alive; 's spheres or another poster had some pvc end caps that looked pretty easy to do by myself. On axis. I haven't read yet if I should load my tweeters off the windshield or point them at me/ middle console for comprimised spot for driver/passenger side.

So, Like I said above Im not where the passive crossover crosses the tweeters at. I have them attenuated at +3db slope on my passive xover currently.. Where should I start the crossover from mid to tweeter range? Ill cross my component around 80hz i suppose at a 12 or 24 db slope ( that means at 40hz they will be half as loud at -3db slope, right?)\


extra info: Im running the listed comp set off a jbl gto 1000.4 and my spl audio 15 ( sub and L port facing trunk hatch, seat up) on my autotek ss 1500.

AxT4430
02-10-2013, 11:13 PM
Sorry if any of the above is face palmage.. I've been very busy with college courses so I've had some very limited time on diyma.com

neo_styles; av83; TheUnderFighter;

Sorry to keep mentioning you guys, but you are all sq men!

gckless
02-10-2013, 11:18 PM
Hey guys update here:

I purchased a clarion cz702(on its way here) from Timmy( great seller) on here.. I will be using my polk audio 6501 2 way set until summer, unless I sell off my subwoofer or broken aq1200..

So, Im wondering where I should start at with crossover points and slopes? The crossover is a 2nd order. Although Im not sure where it crosses over at, or why its listed as 2nd order as my passive attentuation is (iirc) -3db to +3db... so, im probably just confusing the 2nd order (12db/octave?) passive cross over

I also will try and place them in my honda civic sail panel's or a pillar with either keep_hope_alive; 's spheres or another poster had some pvc end caps that looked pretty easy to do by myself. On axis of course, but I havent read yet if I should load my tweeters off the windshield or point them at me/ middle console for comprimised spot for driver/passenger side.

So, Like I said above Im not where the passive crossover crosses the tweeters at. I have them attenuated at +3db slope on my passive xover currently.. Where should I start the crossover from mid to tweeter range? Ill cross my component around 80hz i suppose at a -3 or -6 db slope ( that means at 40hz they will be half as loud at -3db slope, right?)\


extra info: Im running the listed comp set off a jbl gto 1000.4 and my spl audio 15 ( sub and L port facing trunk hatch, seat up) on my autotek ss 1500.

Dude, you really need to do some reading. Not trying to rag on you, it's just you might have a tough time or ruin some gear, which will really frustrate and discourage you.

With that said, if you plan on running active, you are no longer using the crossovers that came with the 6501 set. If you are going passive, then you will. Either way, cross your sub/mid at 80Hz with a 24dB/octave slope to start.

That passive attenuation you were talking about is for the tweeters only. Attenuation has nothing to do with crossover or slope. Well, it does in a way, but for your sake, it doesn't. All attentuation is a decrease in volume, literally "weakening in force or intensity". That switch is for the tweeter's level.

Before we go any farther, do you plan on using the passive crossovers and running passive, or running a wire from each of your amp's channels and going active?

AxT4430
02-10-2013, 11:21 PM
Dude, you really need to do some reading. Not trying to rag on you, it's just you might have a tough time or ruin some gear, which will really frustrate and discourage you.

With that said, if you plan on running active, you are no longer using the crossovers that came with the 6501 set. If you are going passive, then you will. Either way, cross your sub/mid at 80Hz with a 24dB/octave slope to start.

That passive attenuation you were talking about is for the tweeters only. Attenuation has nothing to do with crossover or slope. Well, it does in a way, but for your sake, it doesn't. All attentuation is a decrease in volume, literally "weakening in force or intensity". That switch is for the tweeter's level.

Before we go any farther, do you plan on using the passive crossovers and running passive, or running a wire from each of your amp's channels and going active?

I know I wont be using my cross over, i was using them as refernce points for my first crossover points...

neo_styles
02-10-2013, 11:22 PM
It's all good, man. I'd start by setting a HPF for your woofers at 63-80Hz (wherever you prefer) but letting them roll of naturally on the upper end. Then, for the tweeters, since Polk's are normally victim to a lot of sibilance, would try lifting their crossover point somewhere between 2.5-3k. Should be a good foundation and, from there, you can start tweaking things to what EQs the best.

AxT4430
02-10-2013, 11:22 PM
I know I wont be using my cross over, i was using them as refernce points for my first crossover points...

and duh on me... the crossover point at the sub and comp is high pass filter.. i was thinking low pass filter for some reason..

AxT4430
02-10-2013, 11:24 PM
and duh the crossover point at the sub and comp is high pass filter.. i was thinking low pass filter for some reason..

If im able I wont to set my amp to full pass, then wire each comp and tweet to my amplifier.. can you guys verify that I can do this? or I will in time..

Thanks neo_styles; gckless;

side note- I kind of wish I would have waited to get a prs80.. from what I read they have more slope settings..

gckless
02-10-2013, 11:28 PM
I know I wont be using my cross over, i was using them as refernce points for my first crossover points...

So you are running active then?

Alright well as I said, sub should be a LPF at 80Hz with a 24dB/octave slope and mid should have a HPF of 80Hz with a 24dB/octave slope. As for upper point, you could try mid LPF and tweeter HPF around 3.2kHz with a 12dB/octave slope to start. Your point and slope between mid and tweeter is based on equipment capability and listener preference. I would say you would be safe doing anything from 2.8kHz-4.2kHz.

I'm not trying to offend you in my last post, but you do need to read more man.

neo_styles
02-10-2013, 11:28 PM
If im able I wont to set my amp to full range, then wire each comp and tweet to my amplifier.. can you guys verify that I can do this? or I will in time..

Thanks neo_styles; gckless;

side note- I kind of wish I would have waited to get a prs80.. from what I read they have more slope settings..

Actually, I've heard the crossovers on the Clarion were better, but Pioneer had the upper hand when it came to EQ. You might still be OK.

AxT4430
02-10-2013, 11:30 PM
So you are running active then?

Alright well as I said, sub should be a LPF at 80Hz with a 24dB/octave slope and mid should have a HPF of 80Hz with a 24dB/octave slope. As for upper point, you could try mid LPF and tweeter HPF around 3.2kHz with a 12dB/octave slope to start. Your point and slope between mid and tweeter is based on equipment capability and listener preference. I would say you would be safe doing anything from 2.8kHz-4.2kHz.

I'm not trying to offend you in my last post, but you do need to read more man.

Youre fine haha. I admit i dont know, yet! Ill have to get another set of rcas my tweeters if I want to run one channel with them, and another on my comps right?

This was probably to premature of a post.. sorry guys

and Yes, Im running active!

gckless
02-10-2013, 11:31 PM
If im able I wont to set my amp to full range, then wire each comp and tweet to my amplifier.. can you guys verify that I can do this? or I will in time..

Thanks neo_styles; gckless;

side note- I kind of wish I would have waited to get a prs80.. from what I read they have more slope settings..

The way I think you are doing it, you want to set it to full pass. Because you are setting points and slopes on your HU, you don't want your amp doing something differently, so you just want your amp to amplify every signal that it sees, which has already been crossed and processed by your HU. Make sense?

AxT4430
02-10-2013, 11:33 PM
Actually, I've heard the crossovers on the Clarion were better, but Pioneer had the upper hand when it came to EQ. You might still be OK.

I may end up buying someone a plane ticket to come help me in the summer haha :suicide:

---------- Post added at 04:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:32 AM ----------


The way I think you are doing it, you want to set it to full pass. Because you are setting points and slopes on your HU, you don't want your amp doing something differently, so you just want your amp to amplify every signal that it sees, which has already been crossed and processed by your HU. Make sense?

Crystal clear!

gckless
02-10-2013, 11:33 PM
It's all good, man. I'd start by setting a HPF for your woofers at 63-80Hz (wherever you prefer) but letting them roll of naturally on the upper end. Then, for the tweeters, since Polk's are normally victim to a lot of sibilance, would try lifting their crossover point somewhere between 2.5-3k. Should be a good foundation and, from there, you can start tweaking things to what EQs the best.

Natural roll off huh? Why that versus knowing where he's at?

And I wouldn't really trust those Polk's to get down to 63 under power :/ Not decently anyway.

AxT4430
02-10-2013, 11:37 PM
Natural roll off huh? Why that versus knowing where he's at?

And I wouldn't really trust those Polk's to get down to 63 under power :/ Not decently anyway.

so the comps at the lpf filter should be at 0db slope?! I didnt even catch that gckless; thanks!

btw, I need to figure out what do with my doors to handle this back wave.. :/ that will wait till im not busy or summer

gckless
02-10-2013, 11:38 PM
Actually, I've heard the crossovers on the Clarion were better, but Pioneer had the upper hand when it came to EQ. You might still be OK.

I've heard this too.

Btw OP, typically, you will want a 24dB/octave slope on your sub LPF and your mid HPF, and pretty much any slope between your mid and tweet. 12dB/octave and 18dB/octave are fairly common though.

gckless
02-10-2013, 11:39 PM
so the comps at the lpf filter should be at 0db slope?! I didnt even catch that gckless; thanks!

btw, I need to figure out what do with my doors to handle this back wave.. :/ that will wait till im not busy or summer

0dB would be no slope at all, so if you did let your mids naturally roll off, then yes, they would have a LPF of 0dB/octave.

AxT4430
02-10-2013, 11:41 PM
I've heard this too.

Btw OP, typically, you will want a 24dB/octave slope on your sub LPF and your mid HPF, and pretty much any slope between your mid and tweet. 12dB/octave and 18dB/octave are fairly common though.

If your limited to certain amount of slopes or crossovers.. is it better to have more crossover points then slopes since there seems to be a fairly common amount of people using 12db/24db slopes?

gckless
02-10-2013, 11:44 PM
If your limited to certain amount of slopes or crossovers.. is it better to have more crossover points then slopes since there seems to be a fairly common amount of people using 12db/24db slopes?

Usually yes. But any processing that has a decent amount of crossover points will have at least 3 slopes. Combine that with a decent amount of crossover points and it should be enough to make a system work.

AxT4430
02-10-2013, 11:44 PM
well, Im going to start my homework :) thanks guys

before I get off completely, I only have 2 runs of rca's.. Sub rca to one amp and high's rca to highs amp.. with this new headunit will I need one more rca run for tweeters?

I'm sure this all make alot more sense as I get the headunit and start setting things up.. I can apply what I know and do some low volume testing with other variations

neo_styles
02-10-2013, 11:46 PM
Natural roll off huh? Why that versus knowing where he's at?

And I wouldn't really trust those Polk's to get down to 63 under power :/ Not decently anyway.

Meh I always thought the mobile monitors could actually handle a decent load on the woofer, it's just the tweeters that were the glaring issue with them. In that case, just run a LPF at 80Hz on the woofer, but I stand by the natural rolloff and it's not meant to be a permanent thing. It's more for him to figure out where his woofer starts to break up. It'll give him the chance to start dropping the tweeter HPF until the tweeter starts to stress and then he can lift that setpoint just a hair with the woofer matching it on a LPF, effectively band-passing the mid. Sorry if I'm confusing, but I'm exhausted.

gckless
02-10-2013, 11:49 PM
Meh I always thought the mobile monitors could actually handle a decent load on the woofer, it's just the tweeters that were the glaring issue with them. In that case, just run a LPF at 80Hz on the woofer, but I stand by the natural rolloff and it's not meant to be a permanent thing. It's more for him to figure out where his woofer starts to break up. It'll give him the chance to start dropping the tweeter HPF until the tweeter starts to stress and then he can lift that setpoint just a hair with the woofer matching it on a LPF, effectively band-passing the mid. Sorry if I'm confusing, but I'm exhausted.

Oh he's got the MM? I just assumed dB. Yeah, they should do alright then. And that makes sense. Sounds like you guys are taking care of biz on the sidelines? Not mad about it, you've got him on the right track.

AxT, Neo will take care of you. Just do your homework.

AxT4430
02-10-2013, 11:51 PM
No wait, i have db series.. polk db 6501, sadly..

AxT4430
02-10-2013, 11:53 PM
Cant thank you guys enough.. I hope I can pass this on to an audiophile when I understand!

neo_styles
02-10-2013, 11:55 PM
I think I follow! maybe not the methodology of bandpassing your way, but I know what bandpassing is, and what you probably mean!

Basically, I'm saying you want to continue listening to things a little out-of-normal until you can start to see the veil lifted on certain parts of the playable scale. Each time you make a change, something should definitely click in that things will sound noticeably better or worse.

Using a RTA can actually speed this process up because drivers that are playing overlapping frequencies will be visible by peaks in those areas around the crossover point. You should be making a goal of having the speakers play as flat as possible without even needing to reach for the EQ and then using your EQ to smooth out what your crossover points can't.

---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------


No wait, i have db series.. polk db 6501, sadly..

OK then, stick somewhere around 80-100Hz on the HPF for the mids. IIRC, the only difference between the MM and the dB were in the woofer selection.

AxT4430
02-11-2013, 12:01 AM
Basically, I'm saying you want to continue listening to things a little out-of-normal until you can start to see the veil lifted on certain parts of the playable scale. Each time you make a change, something should definitely click in that things will sound noticeably better or worse.

Using a RTA can actually speed this process up because drivers that are playing overlapping frequencies will be visible by peaks in those areas around the crossover point. You should be making a goal of having the speakers play as flat as possible without even needing to reach for the EQ and then using your EQ to smooth out what your crossover points can't.

---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------



OK then, stick somewhere around 80-100Hz on the HPF for the mids. IIRC, the only difference between the MM and the dB were in the woofer selection.

You mean eq as treble, midbass, .. yoda yoda :crap: lol

Alright, I follow you! :0

Ill have to wait for RTA's although I agree.. using the software that KHA uses would be very handy

neo_styles
02-11-2013, 12:04 AM
You mean eq as treble, midbass, .. yoda yoda :crap: lol

Alright, I follow you! :0

Ill have to wait for RTA's although I agree.. using the software that KHA uses would be very handy

They're not very cheap for the standalone units, but they are extremely accurate. It'd make more sense to get one of those if you were a shop owner and would be doing RTA adjustments frequently. For now, just get one of the free apps for iPhone or Droid and use that on the 1/3 octave scale. That should be able to point you in the right direction.

AxT4430
02-11-2013, 12:09 AM
They're not very cheap for the standalone units, but they are extremely accurate. It'd make more sense to get one of those if you were a shop owner and would be doing RTA adjustments frequently. For now, just get one of the free apps for iPhone or Droid and use that on the 1/3 octave scale. That should be able to point you in the right direction.

Thanks! sorry for any :crying: but I hope I made you :laugh:

Im feeling kind of :emb::confused::flamer: lmao

neo_styles
02-11-2013, 12:11 AM
Thanks! sorry for any :crying: but I hope I made you :laugh:

Im feeling kind of :emb::confused::flamer: lmao

Dude no worries. You're asking the right questions

TheUnderFighter
02-11-2013, 04:37 AM
Nothing to apologize for man, you're just learning. It's great!

nismos14
02-11-2013, 07:12 AM
I have to agree with the above two guys, you should sit down and do a lot of reading on active setups and what's involved and especially what the terminology means and how they apply and/or should apply to each speaker in the setup. Good luck!

AxT4430
02-15-2013, 03:36 PM
neo_styles; im wiring up the clarion harness and my factory harness.. i have amp turn on , memory back up(yellow),power lead, n ground all.wires.. no speakers since im amping my front stage... btw i have an illumination. Lead ( orange/white) and should i wire to my factory dimmer lead or illumination lead ( wired currently)?

Vehicle 2002 honda civic ex coupe.. no power antenna or phone mute

nismos14
02-15-2013, 03:37 PM
If you want it to dim with the headlights coming on, then yes, if not, then no.

AxT4430
02-15-2013, 04:02 PM
Ehh.. maybe after.. so its fine how i have it?

Btw typing from my phone.. sorry

AxT4430
02-15-2013, 07:33 PM
dbl poast

AxT4430
02-15-2013, 07:33 PM
neo_styles; ciaonzo; TheUnderFighter; gckless; nismos14; mclerico83;

Regardless, the headunit dims with headlights. had a small scare, it wasnt turning on initially when I had my key in ignition at auxillary.. but i just had to push power :p ooops

Btw, Im kind of upset with the slopes only being 6db & 12 db. But for 160$ i suppose I cant *****

I felt people have praised it up to be what its not.. I love the 5volt preouts, I can tell a difference.

Also, not sure if I need to switch my rca's but when I eq'd the fade or whatever and set it to +5 or so to left.. the right speaker got louder (opposite)

Heres my setup (granted I need to relocate my tweeter at the A-pillar or sail panel on axis, and do some absorption work in my door panels.. )

Will adjusting my tweets do anything with out A. passive xover taken out B. with an rca cord from headunit highs preout to amp?

Highs
HPF @ 2K, 12 db slope (assume phase is normal)

Mids (bandpassed on hu)
HPF @ 50 hz, 12 db slope
LPf @2.0k hz , 6 db slope

Sub
LPF @ 80hz 6db slope

Another question at 6db slope.. say hpf @ 50 hz will the speaker be between little louder and twice as loud at 100 hz and 25 hz have the opposite effects?

gckless
02-15-2013, 08:02 PM
neo_styles; ciaonzo; TheUnderFighter; gckless; nismos14;

Regardless, the headunit dims with headlights. had a small scare, it wasnt turning on initially when I had my key in ignition at auxillary.. but i just had to push power :p ooops

Btw, Im kind of upset with the slopes only being 6db & 12 db. But for 160$ i suppose I cant *****

I felt people have praised it up to be what its not.. I love the 5volt preouts, I can tell a difference.

Also, not sure if I need to switch my rca's but when I eq'd the fade or whatever and set it to +5 or so to left.. the right speaker got louder (opposite)
You probably have them rolled. Just switch them and you should be fine.

Heres my setup (granted I need to relocate my tweeter at the A-pillar or sail panel on axis, and do some absorption work in my door panels.. )

Will adjusting my tweets do anything with out A. passive xover taken out B. with an rca cord from headunit highs preout to amp?

Highs
HPF @ 2K, 12 db slope (assume phase is normal)
You could try playing around with this and the mids, raise it a little probably, since your mids are playing much higher than this right now.

Mids (bandpassed on hu)
HPF @ 50 hz, 12 db slope
With a 12dB slope, you are going to want to cross higher. Like, 100Hz, if your sub is at 80Hz w/24dB.
LPf @2.0k hz , 6 db slope


Sub
LPF @ 80hz 6db slope
Do you have anything higher than 6db? You should be able to find better, either on the HU or the amp. 6dB is trash for subs. If you are stuck with 6dB, cross at 50Hz, but I think you should be able to find a 24dB somewhere.

Another question at 6db slope.. say hpf @ 50 hz will the speaker be between little louder and twice as loud at 100 hz and 25 hz have the opposite effects?
I don't know what you are trying to say. Lol.

I replied in bold :)

AxT4430
02-15-2013, 08:13 PM
I replied in bold :)

its only 6 and 12 from what I see!