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PapaGeno21
02-03-2013, 02:59 PM
Ok guys, here is where I am a bit confused. I am going to try and keep this short and sweet without writing a book.

I have 4 sets of component speakers. Each in their own door. I have a 4 channel amp that powers each set.

For you people running say the FT1 super tweets and then lets go ith the PWX speakers for the mids, I don't understand how that works.

Are the tweets on their own channel, and then you have two midbass speakers on the other? IF that is the case, that would only be for my front doors. What about my rears?

Or are you guys running say the 4 channel amp to power the tweets and the mids, then you run rear doors off the deck?

No rear doors at all?

Just a little confused on how this is done. I am assuming you need to run the tweets on their own channel, unless you can buy a crossover box somewhere that would be like buying a component set form a company? Like you get the PWX as the mid, the FT1 as the high, and then some sort of crossover and then that all goes on one channel?

Yeah, I am a bit lost. Just looking at the PWX's and FT1's and not sure exactly how I would incorporate all 4 doors or if I am not going to do the rears etc...

gckless
02-03-2013, 03:03 PM
Depends on if you are running active or passive.

Active, one driver location per channel. So, each side tweeter their own channel, each side mid their own channel. This would go crossover -> amp -> driver(s). If you are running two mids in each door, then you can run them on one channel. If running active, then you would need a processor somewhere. That processor's capabilities would determine if you could run rears or not.

Passive, then you could run each side door on one channel. It would go amp -> crossover -> drivers. So here, a 4 channel would power both front and rear doors.

NASTY08IMPALA
02-03-2013, 03:07 PM
you can run more than one speaker per channel ...im running a ppibk800.4 with 4 6.5 bridged on the rear channels and 2 tweets bridged on the front channels..u might be able to get away with running the tweets on hu power..not sure if that answered ur question fron what i got out of.it

PapaGeno21
02-03-2013, 03:08 PM
Ok I believe I am running passive? The only crossovers I have are on the deck and the amp?

For me its..

Deck - Amp - Speakers


So I am still confused as how would I combine the FT1 with a Mid speaker and run that on one channel?

NASTY08IMPALA
02-03-2013, 03:10 PM
Depends on if you are running active or passive.

Active, one driver location per channel. So, each side tweeter their own channel, each side mid their own channel. This would go crossover -> amp -> driver(s). If you are running two mids in each door, then you can run them on one channel. If running active, then you would need a processor somewhere. That processor's capabilities would determine if you could run rears or not.

Passive, then you could run each side door on one channel. It would go amp -> crossover -> drivers. So here, a 4 channel would power both front and rear doors.

this ^^ i wasnt really sure what he was asking so i kept it simple

---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 PM ----------


Ok I believe I am running passive? The only crossovers I have are on the deck and the amp?

For me its..

Deck - Amp - Speakers


So I am still confused as how would I combine the FT1 with a Mid speaker and run that on one channel?

if u have no extra crossovers thats active

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:09 PM ----------


Ok I believe I am running passive? The only crossovers I have are on the deck and the amp?

For me its..

Deck - Amp - Speakers


So I am still confused as how would I combine the FT1 with a Mid speaker and run that on one channel?

you cant run a mid.and tweet active on the same channel because theycneed to be crossed at different freq.

PapaGeno21
02-03-2013, 03:14 PM
Double post

PapaGeno21
02-03-2013, 03:19 PM
That is where I am confused. SO I would need to run the tweets on one channel that way I can set their crossovers different than the mids. So I would run the mids on the other channel...

SO would I do this if it was a 4 channel amp?

Tweets on first/second channel, they would be in the front left and right doors.

6.5" Mids in the 3rd/4th channel. They would be wired in parallel or series whatever gives me the right ohm load but there would be two 6.5's per channel so channel 3 has two of them on the left side each doing a door and same for the right side on the 4th channel?

I am assuming I would just have to turn the gains down significantly for the 1/2 channel as to not blow the crap out of my tweets?

NASTY08IMPALA
02-03-2013, 03:25 PM
yes u can do that or run passive or u can run the tweets on channels 1+2 and. 2 front mids on 3+4 + rears off hu power

gckless
02-03-2013, 03:25 PM
That is where I am confused. SO I would need to run the tweets on one channel that way I can set their crossovers different than the mids. So I would run the mids on the other channel...

SO would I do this if it was a 4 channel amp?

Tweets on first/second channel, they would be in the front left and right doors.

6.5" Mids in the 3rd/4th channel. They would be wired in parallel or series whatever gives me the right ohm load but there would be two 6.5's per channel so channel 3 has two of them on the left side each doing a door and same for the right side on the 4th channel?

I am assuming I would just have to turn the gains down significantly for the 1/2 channel as to not blow the crap out of my tweets?

Yep, that's right. Just know how to set your gains and what your drivers/amp ratings are.


Edit: You are active btw. Do you know where you are crossed at on each right now?

NASTY08IMPALA
02-03-2013, 03:26 PM
if those tweets are anything like the aq supertweets thy do not need muh power to get really loud like 25-30 rms

av83
02-03-2013, 03:34 PM
http://www.caraudio.com/forums/speakers/146726-active-vs-passive-attempt-me-explain.html

read, read, read. There's a buttload of info about how to run active and what it means around this site, but start there^.

PapaGeno21
02-03-2013, 04:06 PM
http://www.caraudio.com/forums/speakers/146726-active-vs-passive-attempt-me-explain.html

read, read, read. There's a buttload of info about how to run active and what it means around this site, but start there^.


OK according to that I am Passive, as my amp powers my component sets but they have a crossover right before the speakers.

So for all my doors its

Deck --> Amp --> Crossover --> Mids/Tweets

But I would be active if I remove that crossover and use separate mids and highs with the 4 channel amp?

gckless
02-03-2013, 04:10 PM
OK according to that I am Passive, as my amp powers my component sets but they have a crossover right before the speakers.

So for all my doors its

Deck --> Amp --> Crossover --> Mids/Tweets

But I would be active if I remove that crossover and use separate mids and highs with the 4 channel amp?

Not what you said before man lol. But yes, if you removed them then its active. But you don't need another set of comps, you can still use the ones you have, just without the crossover in the middle. Or you can use the 4 channel and run passive and power front and rear.

ciaonzo
02-03-2013, 04:14 PM
nvm

av83
02-03-2013, 04:16 PM
OK according to that I am Passive, as my amp powers my component sets but they have a crossover right before the speakers.

So for all my doors its

Deck --> Amp --> Crossover --> Mids/Tweets

But I would be active if I remove that crossover and use separate mids and highs with the 4 channel amp?

If you remove the crossover, you will need a processor, or headunit, that can provide you with a signal that is both below(for the mids) and above(for the tweeters) the crossover point desired for each.

gckless
02-03-2013, 04:20 PM
If you remove the crossover, you will need a processor, or headunit, that can provide you with a signal that is both below(for the mids) and above(for the tweeters) the crossover point desired for each.

You can also run full range out of a head unit and cross them at the amp, if the amp is capable.

NASTY08IMPALA
02-03-2013, 04:24 PM
You can also run full range out of a head unit and cross them at the amp, if the amp is capable.

this is what im doin..set ur hu to through and let the amp do the work

av83
02-03-2013, 04:27 PM
You can also run full range out of a head unit and cross them at the amp, if the amp is capable.

That's what i do, but it's difficult to do correctly without crossover calibrator.

gckless
02-03-2013, 04:29 PM
this is what im doin..set ur hu to through and let the amp do the work

Cheapest way sometimes. Just harder to accurately set crossover points usually. But there are definitely ways to do it.

av83
02-03-2013, 04:37 PM
Cheapest way sometimes. Just harder to accurately set crossover points usually. But there are definitely ways to do it.

people can say what they want about Meade, but the CC-1 works absolutely perfectly for this.

PapaGeno21
02-03-2013, 05:19 PM
SO basically let me get this straight.

I have my setup like this.
Deck - Amp - Crossover - Speakers

That is passive. I am currently passive on all 4 doors using my 4 channel amp. That is what I am using right now, and am perfectly happy.

To get louder, I can either

A: Get way more powerful passive components and a more powerful amp
B: More powerful 4 channel, Tweets on channel 1/2, Front and rear doors using channel 3/4 wired together in series or parallel depending on ohm load. (I presume this is active) Would set the crossovers with the amp and let the deck have no control
C: More powerful 4 channel, Tweets on channel 1/2, Front door mids on channel 3/4 and rear doors off head unit, crossovers set on amp as well and just let the rear doors see everything above 80hz and let their passive crossover deal with it.

My amp is capable of doing high and low pass crossovers, and I have the CC1 right now and just setup my high pass with it actually.

Currently, my deck is on a 80HZ crossover. The sub amp sees 80 and below, and the interior sees 80 and up. With the CC1 I set the high pass on my interior amp to 100HZ and then for the sub I set it at 80 HZ. I really like how this sounds right now.

SO I do understand the active and passive crap now, but I fail to see how active is "so much harder to tune" as wouldn't you just send the Mids like 100-3500/4k ish and then the tweets get the rest?

Out of A - B - C what do you think my best option is? I am thinking B. The only issue with B is that I lose the ability to fade front to rear, but I don't do that anyways. Option B still gives me stereo from left to right so that is better than using a 2 channel amp and trying to make all that work.

Am I right?

PapaGeno21
02-03-2013, 09:53 PM
Also because my amps all have their own crossovers that have been properly set, should I just let the headunit play through without the deck crossovers?

gckless
02-03-2013, 10:00 PM
Also because my amps all have their own crossovers that have been properly set, should I just let the headunit play through without the deck crossovers?

Dude, I'm so confused by what you have going on. You say you have crossovers set on the amps, but you also have passive crossovers before the speakers? Do you also have crossovers set on your HU? If so, list what settings you have on both HU and amp.

And your above options, looking at your equipment that you have now, I'd go passive, especially if you want rears. Get a set of JBL MS-62C's for the front and an amp to properly power them. Rears don't really matter, throw whatever speakers you want back there. If you don't need rears, bridge the amp you have to those JBL's, and you're set.

The Squeakquel
02-03-2013, 11:45 PM
people can say what they want about Meade, but the CC-1 works absolutely perfectly for this.

Completely unnecessary.....you can do the same thing with a DMM and calculator and put the $150 towards a better use.

Also, setting to an exact xover frequency is honestly not important. All that matters is the resultant sound, not the specific frequency. So even the DMM + calculator method is completely unnecessary.

The Squeakquel
02-03-2013, 11:52 PM
SO basically let me get this straight.

I have my setup like this.
Deck - Amp - Crossover - Speakers

That is passive. I am currently passive on all 4 doors using my 4 channel amp. That is what I am using right now, and am perfectly happy.

To get louder, I can either

A: Get way more powerful passive components and a more powerful amp
B: More powerful 4 channel, Tweets on channel 1/2, Front and rear doors using channel 3/4 wired together in series or parallel depending on ohm load. (I presume this is active) Would set the crossovers with the amp and let the deck have no control
C: More powerful 4 channel, Tweets on channel 1/2, Front door mids on channel 3/4 and rear doors off head unit, crossovers set on amp as well and just let the rear doors see everything above 80hz and let their passive crossover deal with it.

My amp is capable of doing high and low pass crossovers, and I have the CC1 right now and just setup my high pass with it actually.

Currently, my deck is on a 80HZ crossover. The sub amp sees 80 and below, and the interior sees 80 and up. With the CC1 I set the high pass on my interior amp to 100HZ and then for the sub I set it at 80 HZ. I really like how this sounds right now.

SO I do understand the active and passive crap now, but I fail to see how active is "so much harder to tune" as wouldn't you just send the Mids like 100-3500/4k ish and then the tweets get the rest?

Out of A - B - C what do you think my best option is? I am thinking B. The only issue with B is that I lose the ability to fade front to rear, but I don't do that anyways. Option B still gives me stereo from left to right so that is better than using a 2 channel amp and trying to make all that work.

Am I right?

Honestly your best option is to stay passive. You don't have enough knowledge to properly pull off an active setup right now. I'm not trying to be rude with that statement, just an accurate assessment.

The goal of active is to achieve better performance than passive allows for due to the increased flexibility and additional processing that becomes available when running active with a decent processor. Could you simply toss a dart at a dartboard to pick a crossover frequency and call it done? Sure, but the results are not going to be optimal and chances are good a decent passive setup would sound 10x better than your active setup.....which sort of defeats the purpose, eh?

It takes decent knowledge and a lot of time to properly (key word) tune an active setup. If my options were active with nothing but the basic crossovers in an amplifier and a novice at the controls or a decent passive setup....I'd highly suggest the passive route until your knowledge, understanding and equipment improves. The real benefit to active is realized with an outboard processor or advanced headunit.

MutantDreams
02-04-2013, 12:00 AM
Now i didnt neccesarly read most of the thread, but couldn't he run fr+rr mids on ch 1 fl+rl mids on ch 2, fr+rr tweets on ch 3 and fl+rl tweets on ch 4?

fasfocus00
02-04-2013, 12:11 AM
i have an Audiocontrol 2XS that'll do what you want. 2XS high pass to channel 1 and 2, low pass to channel 3 and 4. front tweeter to channel 1 on amp, rear tweeter to channel 2 on amp. front mids to channel 3 and rear mids to channel 4. and to set the crossover points just change the resistors according to the formula that AC has and done.


HU>2XS>Amp done.

gckless
02-04-2013, 12:14 AM
Now i didnt neccesarly read most of the thread, but couldn't he run fr+rr mids on ch 1 fl+rl mids on ch 2, fr+rr tweets on ch 3 and fl+rl tweets on ch 4?

No. Not if you want any kind of SQ.

MutantDreams
02-04-2013, 12:19 AM
Why would it affect sound quality? Im not getting smart or anything, i just honestly dont know.

gckless
02-04-2013, 12:28 AM
Why would it affect sound quality? Im not getting smart or anything, i just honestly dont know.

Usually people have comps in the front and coaxials in the back, so crossover points should be different here. You will not be able to time align or EQ them any different, which is big. You will also lose any fade/volume control.

MutantDreams
02-04-2013, 12:47 AM
I don't really wanna derail the thread, would you mind explaining how you would time align them? Or what that is for that matter?

gckless
02-04-2013, 01:00 AM
I don't really wanna derail the thread, would you mind explaining how you would time align them? Or what that is for that matter?

It's a process for making all the waves from each driver reach your ears at the same time. That way you don't hear any delay between your highs and mids, for example. You need some sort of processing to do this. Here's a way to do it by ear:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/125069-better-technique-ear-time-alignment.html

av83
02-04-2013, 11:01 AM
Also because my amps all have their own crossovers that have been properly set, should I just let the headunit play through without the deck crossovers?

I would use the hu crossovers, and turn the amps to full range. First try 80hz for the hpf and 63 for the lpf. if the mids sound like they're in trouble, then go to 80 & 100.

you can always try a mix, too. the dc probably has a nice 24db crossover, you can use that one and use the hpf on the hu.