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View Full Version : Power Pack to power JBL MS-62C speakers?



-Josh-
01-07-2013, 09:26 PM
I have decided to choose the JBL's comps. for my front stage for my truck. I am buying an alpine cde-hd137bt head unit and am looking to add the ktp-445u power pack as well.

Now, here are my options:

Should I Y the power pack so each set of speaker receives 90 watts (2 channels to the set and utilize the crossover)?
or
Should I run the power pack to each woofer and tweeter of each set of speakers so each part recieves 45 watts(1 channel to a speaker)?
or
Should I purchase a different amp in place of the power pack all together? If so, which one?

For my backstage, I am just going to upgrade the 6x8 speakers but only for a midbass. I plan on powering the new speakers through the head unit only. Any recommendations on any speakers for this?

neo_styles
01-07-2013, 09:31 PM
Honestly, I'd recommend a different amp altogether. The power pack is a nice idea because you can hide it away but you'll be effed on adjustments. Thought about that after you brought it up last time. And you won't be able to run each woofer and tweeter on separate channels because that HU isn't capable of active crossover points (ie can't HPF the tweeters high enough). Best bet is to either go with the power pack and run the comps bridged or get a separate amp altogether.

Btw, I'm running those MS comps at about 50W each right now and they sounds pretty loud and proud. I'll put up a video tonight showing you what I mean. Just keep your eyes open.

-Josh-
01-07-2013, 09:40 PM
Honestly, I'd recommend a different amp altogether. The power pack is a nice idea because you can hide it away but you'll be effed on adjustments. Thought about that after you brought it up last time. And you won't be able to run each woofer and tweeter on separate channels because that HU isn't capable of active crossover points (ie can't HPF the tweeters high enough). Best bet is to either go with the power pack and run the comps bridged or get a separate amp altogether.

Btw, I'm running those MS comps at about 50W each right now and they sounds pretty loud and proud. I'll put up a video tonight showing you what I mean. Just keep your eyes open.

Thanks man, I really do appreciate the help. I understand what your saying about the active crossover points now, took me a second to understand by what you meant before. Also, I was going to mount in my glove box so I could access it.

neo_styles
01-07-2013, 09:42 PM
Thanks man, I really do appreciate the help. I understand what your saying about the active crossover points now, took me a second to understand by what you meant before. Also, I was going to mount in my glove box so I could access it.

Fair enough. That's the big advantage to the power pack. That and there's less risk of noise through the RCAs since it's a short run. It'll be the easier install, but I think you'll get more and be set up better for the future if you just get a separate amp for the trunk.

Btw, video is uploading now of the updated sound test on my MS comps, you can see the original here:

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/563492-jbl-ms62c-06-passat-speaker-baffles-2.html#post8269826

-Josh-
01-07-2013, 09:45 PM
Fair enough. That's the big advantage to the power pack. That and there's less risk of noise through the RCAs since it's a short run. It'll be the easier install, but I think you'll get more and be set up better for the future if you just get a separate amp for the trunk.

Btw, video is uploading now of the updated sound test on my MS comps, you can see the original here:

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/563492-jbl-ms62c-06-passat-speaker-baffles-2.html#post8269826

Unfortunately, I do not have a trunk. Although, I feel like it's the most useful thing when dealing with car audio due to the extra space.

neo_styles
01-07-2013, 09:48 PM
Bah good call. Forgot about the truck comment in the first post. There's small footprint amps like the PPI P900.4 ($200) that would easily fit under your driver's seat and should be easy enough to adjust and with dang near four times the power output of the power pack. Also has crossover points high enough for active use. Food for thought...

-Josh-
01-07-2013, 09:58 PM
Bah good call. Forgot about the truck comment in the first post. There's small footprint amps like the PPI P900.4 ($200) that would easily fit under your driver's seat and should be easy enough to adjust and with dang near four times the power output of the power pack. Also has crossover points high enough for active use. Food for thought...

I will definitely consider that, especially only at that price point. The only reason, I really want the power pack is because it is small, convenient and does not take up space. I would put a 5 way amp in but they are to dang big. And I would want to put a 4 way; but when I do want to put in a sub, I don't want to be running two separate amps due to the limited space in the cab. But that can always change.

neo_styles
01-07-2013, 10:00 PM
I will definitely consider that, especially only at that price point. The only reason, I really want the power pack is because it is small, convenient and does not take up space. I would put a 5 way amp in but they are to dang big. And I would want to put a 4 way; but when I do want to put in a sub, I don't want to be running two separate amps due to the limited space in the cab. But that can always change.

On that P900.4, you could run the comps off two channels and the remaining two bridged to a dual 2 ohm sub. Should be more than enough power for the cab and you won't need a second amp.

neo_styles
01-07-2013, 10:22 PM
Thanks man, I really do appreciate the help. I understand what your saying about the active crossover points now, took me a second to understand by what you meant before. Also, I was going to mount in my glove box so I could access it.

Video's up btw, feel free to get an idea of what you'll have installed in your truck. Running at about the same power you'd get on that power pack.

-Josh-
01-07-2013, 10:46 PM
On that P900.4, you could run the comps off two channels and the remaining two bridged to a dual 2 ohm sub. Should be more than enough power for the cab and you won't need a second amp.

I agree. Do you have any recommendations on what 6x8 speakers to use for the back to fill in as a midbass. I would want them not to sound muddy at higher volumes, be able to run off the head unit, and will run smoothly with the 62c's so they don't fall behind?

I was looking at these:
Kicker KS68 6"x8" 2-way car speakers at Crutchfield.com (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_206KS68/Kicker-KS68.html?tp=93#overview-tab)
or these
Polk Audio DXi570 5"x7"/6"x8" 2-way car speakers at Crutchfield.com (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DXI570/Polk-Audio-DXi570.html?tp=93#overview-tab)
as some options.

Any input?

-Josh-
01-07-2013, 10:47 PM
Video's up btw, feel free to get an idea of what you'll have installed in your truck. Running at about the same power you'd get on that power pack.

Definitely appreciate it, thanks.

neo_styles
01-07-2013, 10:48 PM
I wouldn't be looking at coax if you're looking for rear fill; midbass drivers would be more ideal. Let me take a few minutes to find something better for you.

neo_styles
01-07-2013, 10:52 PM
Since the only thing that should be a direct drop in will be coaxials, you could go with these:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12262_JBL-P8662.html

Or flex your fabrication chops and make baffles to fit a 6.5" and go with something more like this:

WoofersEtc.com - CTX6M - Image Dynamics CTX Series 6.5" Midrange Speakers (http://www.woofersetc.com/p-8482-ctx6m-image-dynamics-ctx-series-65-midrange-speakers.aspx)

-Josh-
01-07-2013, 10:52 PM
I wouldn't be looking at coax if you're looking for rear fill; midbass drivers would be more ideal. Let me take a few minutes to find something better for you.
Good point, thanks.

-Josh-
01-07-2013, 10:55 PM
On the JBL's what would you recommend reducing the tweeter output to?

neo_styles
01-07-2013, 10:57 PM
On the comps, I didn't have to make any adjustments on the tweeter. For the coax, the minimum possible, especially because you'll be powering from the HU. Having a tweeter in the rear is going to pull your soundstage back which isn't ideal in car audio. So if there's a -6 setting, use that.

-Josh-
01-07-2013, 11:03 PM
I will call sonic's tomorrow and find out and I will get back to you on that.

trumpet
01-08-2013, 11:52 AM
There are even smaller full range Class D amps that I would recommend for someone who feels they have no space for equipment. They're the Massive Audio Nano BiT amps. At 1.6" tall and 5" wide they're super tiny. The 2-channel is 6.3" long and the mono and 4-channel amps are 8.3" long. I have 2 of the BX4s under my passenger seat but they could be tucked away in any number of places. Sometimes you have to get creative and make brackets to put things where you can imagine them fitting.

-Josh-
01-08-2013, 05:46 PM
There are even smaller full range Class D amps that I would recommend for someone who feels they have no space for equipment. They're the Massive Audio Nano BiT amps. At 1.6" tall and 5" wide they're super tiny. The 2-channel is 6.3" long and the mono and 4-channel amps are 8.3" long. I have 2 of the BX4s under my passenger seat but they could be tucked away in any number of places. Sometimes you have to get creative and make brackets to put things where you can imagine them fitting.
I am looking around now at larger amps like 5 ways, but looking at dimensions and output.

neo_styles
01-08-2013, 05:56 PM
I am looking around now at larger amps like 5 ways, but looking at dimensions and output.

mylows10 ; could hook you up with an AB 5-channel that should be more than enough for you.

-Josh-
01-08-2013, 06:12 PM
mylows10 ; could hook you up with an AB 5-channel that should be more than enough for you.

Definitely be looking out for mylows. Anyways, I was going to buy the ms-62c's from sonic and they are sold out. Just my luck.

neo_styles
01-08-2013, 06:14 PM
Lol it happens. They're starting to become the forum boner on multiple sites, especially at that price. They stock up pretty quickly though. Try talking to trumpet ; and see if he can't get a set for you

mylows10
01-08-2013, 06:16 PM
i have this one Arc Audio XDI 80.5 (http://www.arcaudio.com/product-pages/amplifiers/xdi-series/xdi805.asp) or this one http://www.americanbassusa.com/product.detail/product_id/183

-Josh-
01-08-2013, 08:06 PM
Lol it happens. They're starting to become the forum boner on multiple sites, especially at that price. They stock up pretty quickly though. Try talking to trumpet ; and see if he can't get a set for you

Since I know you own the 62c's and powered them at 50 watts, would you add more power? Also, what would be the most watts you would power them with?

neo_styles
01-08-2013, 08:33 PM
Yes and as long as the signal was clean I wouldn't mind giving them 150 each

-Josh-
01-08-2013, 09:12 PM
Yes and as long as the signal was clean I wouldn't mind giving them 150 each

I don't know why I am asking this because I am pretty sure I know. Does adding more watts make the speakers better, by this I mean cleaner and more accurate not louder?

neo_styles
01-08-2013, 09:16 PM
I don't know why I am asking this because I am pretty sure I know. Does adding more watts make the speakers better, by this I mean cleaner and more accurate not louder?

Yes and no. For some comp sets that aren't as efficient on lower power, it'll start to make the midbass shine. Since you need more power to generate the motor force to get the woofer's driver moving, there's logic in that argument.

On the other hand, people seem to think that more power instantly equals a louder speaker and that's not necessarily true. You only get about a 3db rise in volume from a doubling of power, so realistically, there's no weight to the argument.

I should have also added that if I was going to power my comps at 150 watts, it would be to the woofers. Not a smart idea to give the tweeters that much juice, so that high power application would require an active setup. I've heard the midbasses really start to shine on more power, but I'm scared to see what that much would do to the tweets.

-Josh-
01-08-2013, 09:28 PM
Yes and no. For some comp sets that aren't as efficient on lower power, it'll start to make the midbass shine. Since you need more power to generate the motor force to get the woofer's driver moving, there's logic in that argument.

On the other hand, people seem to think that more power instantly equals a louder speaker and that's not necessarily true. You only get about a 3db rise in volume from a doubling of power, so realistically, there's no weight to the argument.

I should have also added that if I was going to power my comps at 150 watts, it would be to the woofers. Not a smart idea to give the tweeters that much juice, so that high power application would require an active setup. I've heard the midbasses really start to shine on more power, but I'm scared to see what that much would do to the tweets.

I can see the argument there that doubling the power only adds a whopping 3db. I don't necessarily want my speakers to be loud at all, 99.9% of the time with my stock system it is at maybe 40% of the full volume output of the head unit and I am perfectly content with how it sounds. Although that does not mean much, I am not one for loud sound but more for detail and clarity.

So let me try to clear this up with a scenario so it can make sense.
On one hand lets say, I have one setup where 45 watts powering the speakers and having them put out 70db, and on the other hand I have 100 watts powering the speakers and they are putting out the same 70db.
Will one sound better (cleaner and more full detail not louder) than the other?

neo_styles
01-08-2013, 09:30 PM
Most likely the 100W. That's why I'm looking further down the road at something like that P900.4 since, even if I don't use the extra power, will have the headroom.

-Josh-
01-08-2013, 09:34 PM
Most likely the 100W. That's why I'm looking further down the road at something like that P900.4 since, even if I don't use the extra power, will have the headroom.

Okay I understand that then, it took me a while to think that out and how to write so it would make sense and it seems you follow me. Having the extra head room makes a very valid point to have the extra power.

neo_styles
01-08-2013, 09:36 PM
Okay I understand that then, it took me a while to think that out and how to write so it would make sense and it seems you follow me. Having the extra head room makes a very valid point to have the extra power.

Here's how I see it: having an amp that is rated to 150W means I should see a clean 120W out of it no problem. Having something do rated power and clean? Not so easy.

-Josh-
01-08-2013, 09:39 PM
Right so you don't push the amp to the max threshold.

neo_styles
01-08-2013, 09:45 PM
Exactly

-Josh-
01-08-2013, 09:49 PM
There are a lot of factors to consider when picking the right audio system dang. Last question for my size cab, would you recommend an 8 or 10 inch sub so I can just hear the lower frequencies.

neo_styles
01-08-2013, 09:57 PM
There are a lot of factors to consider when picking the right audio system dang. Last question for my size cab, would you recommend an 8 or 10 inch sub so I can just hear the lower frequencies.

Two 8s ported and under the rear seats would do you great. I know someone on here is selling their ID8s cheap and double 07 ; should be able to build you a solid box for those.

-Josh-
01-08-2013, 09:58 PM
Two 8s ported and under the rear seats would do you great. I know someone on here is selling their ID8s cheap and double 07 ; should be able to build you a solid box for those.
Thanks for all the help man, it is appreciated.

neo_styles
01-08-2013, 09:59 PM
No problem. And, yes, putting a whole system together is a chore. Kind of a trial and error process.

-Josh-
01-08-2013, 10:02 PM
I know, it can become a bit tedious at times.

trumpet
01-09-2013, 10:55 AM
Today I can get up to 3 sets of MS-62C. Since those are in the hands of my distributor that number could drop at any time.

-Josh-
01-09-2013, 03:23 PM
Today I can get up to 3 sets of MS-62C. Since those are in the hands of my distributor that number could drop at any time.

Pm'ed you.