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View Full Version : 2012 Frame / Cone -- First Built Woofer



sundownz
11-02-2012, 03:41 PM
Prototype motor paired with new 12" frame, 9.25" spider (what we use on Z v.3 18s now), and the new cone / surround. I literally JUST finished it so I cannot play it until tomorrow. That being said... it won't QUITE be able to use ALL of the clearance we have -- and that is great -- should be INCREDIBLY rugged and hard to damage :thumbsup:

For those not current on all of these parts -- they are ALL prototype parts. They are not in production yet. Production parts will start appearing 1Q 2013.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Zv4_12_Built/CIMG6647.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Zv4_12_Built/CIMG6648.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Zv4_12_Built/CIMG6649.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Zv4_12_Built/CIMG6650.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Zv4_12_Built/CIMG6651.JPG

Trippymane
11-02-2012, 03:44 PM
Holees looks good

skylineTT
11-02-2012, 03:47 PM
does remind me of a holees, lol. I like the dark rugged look of this a lot more though. Are these surrounds and baskets going to mated to an SA motor too?

sundownz
11-02-2012, 03:48 PM
does remind me of a holees, lol. I like the dark rugged look of this a lot more though. Are these surrounds and baskets going to mated to an SA motor too?

We will not offer them on anything less than our upcoming 1kw "X" line

skylineTT
11-02-2012, 03:50 PM
We will not offer them on anything less than our upcoming 1kw "X" line

Lol, the SA's are capable of 1kW sooooooooooo





:naughty:

---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:49 PM ----------

You're in luck though, I've been looking for a 1+ kW 10" for my truck with high excursion to move some more air. Hook me up with a proto brotha!

macsdad
11-02-2012, 03:50 PM
dayum, that 5hit is beefy, that is a fine looking woof. can you say powah?

Shinju
11-02-2012, 03:52 PM
Nice, looks like it means business!

I was hoping you would be using bubble caps and not those silly concaved deals!

looking good Jacob!

dbjunior
11-02-2012, 04:40 PM
Any idea on part pricing yet or still working that out hoping to get some 10in baskets and cones.

Trippymane
11-02-2012, 08:56 PM
I'm tuned in to see when these are in stock.

sundownz
11-03-2012, 12:08 PM
I did get a little too happy with it last night when I first fired it up -- you'll hear a small metallic sound because of some slight damage I did to it then (woops!). Either way I was still able to get a good test out of it for this video and show it in action -- with more testing to come as we get more prototypes together. The good news is I'll be able to make it even tougher on production thanks to my mistake =)

Z v.4 Prototype Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoGaG3L4Aho)

sundownz
11-03-2012, 12:40 PM
I did get a little too happy with it last night when I first fired it up -- you'll hear a small metallic sound because of some slight damage I did to it then (woops!). Either way I was still able to get a good test out of it for this video and show it in action -- with more testing to come as we get more prototypes together. The good news is I'll be able to make it even tougher on production thanks to my mistake =)

Z v.4 Prototype Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoGaG3L4Aho)

I am kicking myself a bit for getting crazy last night with it, haha... what I did was push it hard enough to exit the coil completely from the gap by a large amount -- the 12" frame supports 50mm of one-way travel not counting frame thickness... 59mm with frame thickness... and 71mm with vent spacer thickness added -- minus 8mm for triple joint ring so we can go 63mm one-way before bottoming the ring... and we have 62.5mm in the motor... so I had it up around 60mm one-way (which is actually 5mm PAST surround linearity)... which makes the coil about 1/2" past the gap *laughs*

So when it came back down it knicked the top plate and knocked loose 1/2 of one voice coil (the coil is an 8-layer bifilar which is wound as a quad; so you can knock out 1/2 of a coil by breaking one wire) and this wire is rubbing on the top plate now making that metallic sound (I can see the loose wire through the vent spacer -- WOOPS!!!).

Either way I have some ideas to minimize that possibility; although, I must admit, I was being totally careless with it to do that!

Needless to say it was pretty crazy and just me being too happy with my new toy :)

thevic24
11-03-2012, 12:48 PM
Dam bro...not bad!

Who makes your surrounds and can they make just about any custom surround?

NoLoud4U
11-03-2012, 01:04 PM
What kind of box sizes are we looking at? XXX size box? Hope not

sundownz
11-03-2012, 03:50 PM
What kind of box sizes are we looking at? XXX size box? Hope not

The enclosure specifications won't change from what we spec now.

sundownz
11-03-2012, 03:51 PM
Dam bro...not bad!

Who makes your surrounds and can they make just about any custom surround?

Any surround you like can be custom tooled at a soft parts manufacturing company (there are quite a few out there) -- it's just not cheap so it's not practical for one-off applications or for drivers that don't really need the additional throw.

Spooney
11-03-2012, 04:01 PM
That is just nuts man. I want it. You know you need a guinea pig in the michigan area . :D

garretttt4
11-03-2012, 04:20 PM
How much are these gunna cost? Kinda wanting two of these badasss little beasts now. Lol

thevic24
11-03-2012, 04:22 PM
Any surround you like can be custom tooled at a soft parts manufacturing company (there are quite a few out there) -- it's just not cheap so it's not practical for one-off applications or for drivers that don't really need the additional throw.
AH..

My problem is this...(sorry for the off topic)
I have 3 old school JL 8w6's with after market surrounds. They do not allow for that driver's throw.
The replacement (generic) foams are wide enough and fit but are not tall enough. I have a 4th 8w6 here(stock) and the difference is night and day.

If you could(and do not mind) maybe shoot me a pm with some contact info for one of these companies. I am going to keep these old w6's and would most likely have no problems having a good, correct foam built for them.

Thanks and again, sorry for going off topic.

-Vic

Trippymane
11-03-2012, 06:28 PM
I only saw the surrounds shape distorting a little bit at 3:16-3:40. Quite impressive. What's the mms with that cone and coil setup? Have u pulled any specs? I definitely want you to recone a pair of 3hp x2's for me when u get these stocked

winkychevelle
11-03-2012, 07:29 PM
whats the new mounting depth if you dont mind me asking they look like 4 inches taller than the dd9512 and my ab hd12

gckless
11-03-2012, 07:44 PM
I want.

garretttt4
11-04-2012, 03:04 PM
I want.

x10!!

P.s. I like your sig too. Lol that was a great thread.

gckless
11-04-2012, 05:34 PM
x10!!

P.s. I like your sig too. Lol that was a great thread.

Lol yep, that thread was crafted for lulz from the beginning.

garretttt4
11-04-2012, 10:19 PM
Lol yep, that thread was crafted for lulz from the beginning.

Iv seen like 6 ppl already with quotes from that thread as they're sig. That's where I got mine too haha everyone had already taken all the good ones by the time I got there though.....

garretttt4
11-04-2012, 10:55 PM
I did get a little too happy with it last night when I first fired it up -- you'll hear a small metallic sound because of some slight damage I did to it then (woops!). Either way I was still able to get a good test out of it for this video and show it in action -- with more testing to come as we get more prototypes together. The good news is I'll be able to make it even tougher on production thanks to my mistake =)

Z v.4 Prototype Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoGaG3L4Aho)

Now you just need someone to do a nice in depth review for this right!? ;)

gckless
11-04-2012, 11:06 PM
^^^EVERYONE wants to be that dude.

What's the cost looking like on these? On par with the Z v.3's?

kushy_dreams
11-04-2012, 11:07 PM
looks like the prototype from visceral sound

garretttt4
11-04-2012, 11:34 PM
^^^EVERYONE wants to be that dude.

What's the cost looking like on these? On par with the Z v.3's?

Ik its worth a try lol never been lucky enough. Maybe someday haha

sundownz
11-05-2012, 07:24 AM
looks like the prototype from visceral sound

If you mean both drivers have a chrome triple stack motor, then yes - putting aside that the motors are different designs other than being triple stacks.

If you mean any other part on them, then no - they are 100% different in terms of frame, soft parts, and coil.

---------- Post added at 07:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 AM ----------


^^^EVERYONE wants to be that dude.

What's the cost looking like on these? On par with the Z v.3's?

As you might imagine the new parts are more expensive; pricing is pending the final production costs. It will go up according to the % of production cost increase.

gckless
11-05-2012, 07:51 AM
As you might imagine the new parts are more expensive; pricing is pending the final production costs. It will go up according to the % of production cost increase.

I was afraid of that :crap:
It's looking like they will be very much worth it though. Hurry up and get those kinks worked out so we can get our hands on some! I know at least I'm in as soon as they are available.

sundownz
11-05-2012, 08:03 AM
Few more photos this morning compared to other Z model woofers :

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Zv4_12_Built/CIMG6655.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Zv4_12_Built/CIMG6653.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Zv4_12_Built/CIMG6654.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Zv4_12_Built/CIMG6656.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Zv4_12_Built/CIMG6657.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Zv4_12_Built/CIMG6658.JPG

sundownz
11-05-2012, 08:19 AM
I am kicking myself a bit for getting crazy last night with it, haha... what I did was push it hard enough to exit the coil completely from the gap by a large amount -- the 12" frame supports 50mm of one-way travel not counting frame thickness... 59mm with frame thickness... and 71mm with vent spacer thickness added -- minus 8mm for triple joint ring so we can go 63mm one-way before bottoming the ring... and we have 62.5mm in the motor... so I had it up around 60mm one-way (which is actually 5mm PAST surround linearity)... which makes the coil about 1/2" past the gap *laughs*

So when it came back down it knicked the top plate and knocked loose 1/2 of one voice coil (the coil is an 8-layer bifilar which is wound as a quad; so you can knock out 1/2 of a coil by breaking one wire) and this wire is rubbing on the top plate now making that metallic sound (I can see the loose wire through the vent spacer -- WOOPS!!!).

Either way I have some ideas to minimize that possibility; although, I must admit, I was being totally careless with it to do that!

Needless to say it was pretty crazy and just me being too happy with my new toy

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Zv4_12_Built/woops.jpg

Here is the wire I knocked loose -- you can see it through the vent. The piece hanging off is the part after the connection is cut so I can still play the driver (eg: not shorting out on the motor).

Coils of this type have four windings -- I broke just one so I am running on "one and a half" coils in the video.

sundownz
11-05-2012, 11:30 AM
I have noted some doubt on whether all of these new parts will be of major benefit (not in this thread, of course, but I do see alot of things around the internet) -- what I say to that is; stay tuned for the results ! :)

garretttt4
11-05-2012, 03:39 PM
I have noted some doubt on whether all of these new parts will be of major benefit (not in this thread, of course, but I do see alot of things around the internet) -- what I say to that is; stay tuned for the results ! :)

Definitely will be!

sundownz
11-20-2012, 12:57 PM
Despite the damaged coil I was able to pull specs then estimate where they would rest with a fully functional coil (as I have data from the 10" model to fill in the blanks that are not size dependent) -- 12" D1 model.

Re : 1.65 series
Fs : ~25.75 Hz
Qes : ~0.296
Qms : ~4.16
Qts : ~0.276
Le : ~1.8 mH
Sd : 457 cm^2
BL : ~17.23
Mms : 329 g
Cms : 115 uM/N
Sens : ~85.01 dB
BL^2/ RE : ~180 (D1 coils are usually a hair higher than D2; but for estimation purposes I used the same as the D2 coil)

So these are estimated based on the known specs and specs from the 10" D2 -- gives us a good idea.

As I mentioned in the 10" thread I may need to add more stiffness into the surround to get the specs to lay where I want them -- realistically I'd like to see the Fs into the low to mid 30s on the stock format driver. You will note that the CMS is higher than the 10" model as the spiders and surrounds get a bit softer as their size increases; thus we have an even LOWER Q figure on a 12" than we do on a 10" model -- on the Z v.3 the surrounds compensated by also getting stiffer as size increased (the 18" Z v.3surround is very stiff) -- so I'll have to do the same on the new surrounds.

So more testing will be getting done with some surround tweaks :)

gckless
11-23-2012, 12:03 AM
I'm really looking forward to seeing the new 15". I'm hoping to do a build with two of the 15's and a 5k in the spring. Any better ETA on the release? Count me in for the pre-order btw.

Thumpersplbassx
11-28-2012, 12:58 AM
These are some massive subs. Can't wait until pre-order gets here!

garretttt4
11-28-2012, 01:09 AM
I like the beer just chillin in the very first picture! ;)