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View Full Version : So is it cool now



DDtC
10-28-2012, 09:57 PM
Is it cool to have stupid, retardedly, distorted PA doors now? Has our beloved hobby turned into who can make the most noise no matter what it sounds like?

Discuss.

FlexnInLa
10-28-2012, 09:58 PM
PA doesn't always = bad sounding. Just saying...

KyleBechtold
10-28-2012, 09:58 PM
you must be new.. PA speakers are old news man

jteske88
10-28-2012, 09:59 PM
Some times it doesn't matter, if you can get it loud and sound good people will run whatever it is.

DDtC
10-28-2012, 10:12 PM
I'm talking cheap pa. People around here have never really done this. I get it if you have a 155 sub stage. I'm talking the doors are overrunning everything by a lot

FlexnInLa
10-28-2012, 10:25 PM
I'm talking cheap pa. People around here have never really done this. I get it if you have a 155 sub stage. I'm talking the doors are overrunning everything by a lot

Loud for loud's sake in that case I guess. Somebody brought it up earlier in another thread, the new thing in my area is horns under the hood so errbody can hear the highs. I dunno...

Dirtrider4eva
10-28-2012, 10:28 PM
guy by me had like 3 8" PA mids in his doors, my old 6'5 diamond audio hex s600s set + 2 vifa tweets was louder and wayy clearer. PA = meh.

token1er
10-28-2012, 10:48 PM
Loud for loud's sake in that case I guess. Somebody brought it up earlier in another thread, the new thing in my area is horns under the hood so errbody can hear the highs. I dunno...

thats old news in my neck of the hood

FlexnInLa
10-28-2012, 10:52 PM
thats old news in my neck of the hood

Yeah I suppose they've been doing it here for a while too.

---------- Post added at 09:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 PM ----------


guy by me had like 3 8" PA mids in his doors, my old 6'5 diamond audio hex s600s set + 2 vifa tweets was louder and wayy clearer. PA = meh.

He was doing something wrong lol.

JoiNt-
10-28-2012, 10:58 PM
i actually ran into a guy who has some tweeters behind his front grill that were loud as sh1t i never actually heard bout ppl doin that till then i was pretty suprised

Dtrom
10-28-2012, 11:03 PM
My buddy had some PA's underneath his Altima back in high school. Used to ride around blaring police sirens. Good times.

token1er
10-28-2012, 11:56 PM
Yeah I suppose they've been doing it here for a while too.

and its annoying as phuck!

mlstrass
10-29-2012, 07:41 AM
Is it cool to have stupid, retardedly, distorted PA doors now? Has our beloved hobby turned into who can make the most noise no matter what it sounds like?

Discuss.

No, it's cool to have stupidly loud and good sounding PA stuff in your doors. And it's the only thing that keeps up VERY loud bass.

Although I will agree that 99% of the PA stuff I've heard sounds like total ***, but I run it in the daily, wife's ride, and the demo set up and have NEVER had a person say it sounds bad in any way.

mlstrass
10-29-2012, 07:43 AM
guy by me had like 3 8" PA mids in his doors, my old 6'5 diamond audio hex s600s set + 2 vifa tweets was louder and wayy clearer. PA = meh.

x2 he either had very crappy mids or had it set up wrong. I'd go with the latter as most people have no idea how to set up xovers/slopes and power them properly.

Anytime you want to hear a real PA set up let me know as I do several shows in WI each year...

nateberrier
10-29-2012, 07:44 AM
Are we talking about JP?

mlstrass
10-29-2012, 07:49 AM
Are we talking about JP?

his horns underneath the vehicle were positively the worst thing I've ever heard...

DDtC
10-29-2012, 08:12 AM
No, it's cool to have stupidly loud and good sounding PA stuff in your doors. And it's the only thing that keeps up VERY loud bass.

Although I will agree that 99% of the PA stuff I've heard sounds like total ***, but I run it in the daily, wife's ride, and the demo set up and have NEVER had a person say it sounds bad in any way.

It's not the only way but its the cheapest. I don't have extreamlly loud bass but my front stage keeps up just fine and I don't use PA. A bullet or horn will never be on the same level as a high powered silk dome.

Dirtrider4eva
10-29-2012, 10:23 AM
x2 he either had very crappy mids or had it set up wrong. I'd go with the latter as most people have no idea how to set up xovers/slopes and power them properly.

Anytime you want to hear a real PA set up let me know as I do several shows in WI each year...

heck yeah. whens the next one? the only PA mid setup i liked was in a purple van. that one was nuts.. played the sound of shattering glass, enough to make my ears almost bleed.

wickedwitt
10-29-2012, 10:28 AM
I'm talking cheap pa. People around here have never really done this. I get it if you have a 155 sub stage. I'm talking the doors are overrunning everything by a lot

That's no excuse either. I'm approaching that in sub stage and I have decent wattage going to clean coaxials. There is a huge difference in 4/8 ohm car speakers and 1/2 ohm Pa with stupid amounts of power. I don't like my ears feeling like they spent three hours next to a train horn after listening to my audio.

mlstrass
10-30-2012, 09:36 AM
heck yeah. whens the next one? the only PA mid setup i liked was in a purple van. that one was nuts.. played the sound of shattering glass, enough to make my ears almost bleed.

purple van is mine :naughty:

mlstrass
10-30-2012, 09:38 AM
It's not the only way but its the cheapest. I don't have extreamlly loud bass but my front stage keeps up just fine and I don't use PA. A bullet or horn will never be on the same level as a high powered silk dome.

If/when you get to mid/upper 50's on music PA stuff is pretty much the only solution. I ran 4 AA carbon fiber mids per door and 8 Vifa neo's per A piller and it just wouldn't keep up.

I will agree that most PA stuff doesn't have quite the "full" sound, but it doesn't have to be shrilly/ear bleeding either. Unless you want it to be...

mlstrass
10-30-2012, 09:40 AM
That's no excuse either. I'm approaching that in sub stage and I have decent wattage going to clean coaxials. There is a huge difference in 4/8 ohm car speakers and 1/2 ohm Pa with stupid amounts of power. I don't like my ears feeling like they spent three hours next to a train horn after listening to my audio.

Eventually the sub stage moves SO much air that it takes a VERY loud front stage to keep up. I have 32 mids/highs in the interior and they still distort on some songs as the bass distorts the mids and F's up the air inside the cabin.

PA stuff is mostly 8ohm and I have never seen 1/2ohm...

wickedwitt
10-30-2012, 09:49 AM
Eventually the sub stage moves SO much air that it takes a VERY loud front stage to keep up. I have 32 mids/highs in the interior and they still distort on some songs as the bass distorts the mids and F's up the air inside the cabin.

PA stuff is mostly 8ohm and I have never seen 1/2ohm...
People running multiple PAs on a channel of an amp typically run them parallel to get power. I wouldn't expect someone to run 3 sets of 8ohm speakers in series for a 24ohm load and 20w of power... That was to be read 1-2 not 1/2 btw.

I agree w/ you that pressurizing the cabin to that level will distort the sound, but having PAs vs mobile audio speakers at that point does nothing. With good components and fair amounts of power, MA speakers can be just as loud as PA and sound better while doing it. The kind of pressure you're talking about is going to take that wave and distort it by changing the air in the cabin tremendously. I'd much rather see a MA speaker way over powered than a PA speaker and trashy low impedances causing double distortion (distortion from the speaker getting wrecked by sub stage pressure). Local audio shop has a van w/ 2 sets of 50w RMS coaxes on 300w each. Crossovers are set properly and power is clean. The speakers scream but sound absolutely crystal clear, and keep up with 8 15" wall just fine.

mlstrass
10-30-2012, 09:53 AM
People running multiple PAs on a channel of an amp typically run them parallel to get power. I wouldn't expect someone to run 3 sets of 8ohm speakers in series for a 24ohm load and 20w of power... That was to be read 1-2 not 1/2 btw.

I agree w/ you that pressurizing the cabin to that level will distort the sound, but having PAs vs mobile audio speakers at that point does nothing. With good components and fair amounts of power, MA speakers can be just as loud as PA and sound better while doing it. The kind of pressure you're talking about is going to take that wave and distort it by changing the air in the cabin tremendously. I'd much rather see a MA speaker way over powered than a PA speaker and trashy low impedances causing double distortion (distortion from the speaker getting wrecked by sub stage pressure). Local audio shop has a van w/ 2 sets of 50w RMS coaxes on 300w each. Crossovers are set properly and power is clean. The speakers scream but sound absolutely crystal clear, and keep up with 8 15" wall just fine.

I'd have to hear it to believe it as that van should be LOUD, so I don't see a few sets of coax's keeping up. Any vids of it playing?

You've just never heard a decent PA set up as they don't have to sound bad at all. Wish you were closer...

pro-rabbit
10-30-2012, 09:53 AM
I have turned down several local builds that wanted to use various pa speakers and/or horns. I simply refuse to attach my name to such a build.

DDtC
10-30-2012, 10:09 AM
I've been chatting with one of our locals that's all about getting his doors as loud as possible. We do have a different idea of crisp sound but even being open minded I can't like it. It is audiopipe stuff so I'm sure that don't help. It's very loud but pointless, it sounds horrible with the doors closed. In his mind it is cleaner then my car. My car has placed in a few SQ comps so that should give you a idea about this person

Dirtrider4eva
10-30-2012, 10:24 AM
purple van is mine :naughty:
That thing was too clear and loud. Couldn't believe that

wickedwitt
10-30-2012, 10:34 AM
I'd have to hear it to believe it as that van should be LOUD, so I don't see a few sets of coax's keeping up. Any vids of it playing?

You've just never heard a decent PA set up as they don't have to sound bad at all. Wish you were closer...
I'll take a vid of it running once they finally replace the batts. ATM it's dead in the water with a blown motor. Haven't charged the batts in months and now they won't hold a charge. Keep up, haha they nearly over power. Like I said though, they are seeing 300w each. My 1 pair of coax is keeping up with my 2 15s on 8k. I'm throwing another set in to replace the 4x6 in the back because they aren't giving me any of the rear fill.

Chrispy
10-30-2012, 01:08 PM
If you need PA mids and highs to keep up with your sub stage are you really going for sound quality?... But set up properly they can be very clear and extremely loud. And again car speakers just don't do it if as LOUD and CLEAR as possible is what you're gioing for.

wickedwitt
10-30-2012, 01:14 PM
If you need PA mids and highs to keep up with your sub stage are you really going for sound quality?... But set up properly they can be very clear and extremely loud. And again car speakers just don't do it if as LOUD and CLEAR as possible is what you're gioing for.

If it's a demo machine, I would want it to sound as good as possible. 30s demos may not need it, but in my world; I only build it if I would listen to it all day long without complaint. That means loud and clear.

double 07
10-30-2012, 01:17 PM
My car is very very close to a 50 and my Boston mids n highs have no problem keeping up...my setup is plenty loud and clear.......no PAs here....

Falcons
10-30-2012, 01:20 PM
im jealous of all you guys. wish i had the money to get some decent speakers. im running stock :/

J31Rob
10-30-2012, 01:26 PM
Is it cool to have stupid, retardedly, distorted PA doors now? Has our beloved hobby turned into who can make the most noise no matter what it sounds like?

Discuss.

Um.. welcome to audio. I'm pretty sure our beloved hobby has always been like this. You're just too new to know that.

J31Rob
10-30-2012, 01:27 PM
I have Neo Pro 6.5s and Selenium ST350s in my doors. They're not distorted at all.. just because they're pro audio doesn't mean they lack what it takes to sound decent. I'm not claiming SQ by any means but they're far from sounding bad.

DDtC
10-30-2012, 01:57 PM
Um.. welcome to audio. I'm pretty sure our beloved hobby has always been like this. You're just too new to know that.

Not new at all. Just never really paid attention to stuff I didnt care to hear. Where I'm from the people that have stuff like that are not going to any of the events I would go to. If they did go they would show up one time and not come back.

DDtC
10-30-2012, 01:58 PM
I have Neo Pro 6.5s and Selenium ST350s in my doors. They're not distorted at all.. just because they're pro audio doesn't mean they lack what it takes to sound decent. I'm not claiming SQ by any means but they're far from sounding bad.

I'm talking audiopipe

pro-rabbit
10-30-2012, 02:03 PM
My car is very very close to a 50 and my Boston mids n highs have no problem keeping up...my setup is plenty loud and clear.......no PAs here....

I'm in the mid to high 150's on music(not peak hold) and I have no PA speakers what so ever in my truck and it sounds very clear and plenty loud to keep up with the wall. With that said, I do have 5 sets of components lol.

mlstrass
10-31-2012, 06:15 AM
I have turned down several local builds that wanted to use various pa speakers and/or horns. I simply refuse to attach my name to such a build.

Well aren't you special :crazy:

Perhaps you should try it, so you'd know first hand how it sounds, what works, and what doesn't....

mlstrass
10-31-2012, 06:16 AM
That thing was too clear and loud. Couldn't believe that

Can't be, I run PA stuff which can't be loud and clear sounding. Aren't you reading the responses in here LOL

mlstrass
10-31-2012, 06:19 AM
I'll take a vid of it running once they finally replace the batts. ATM it's dead in the water with a blown motor. Haven't charged the batts in months and now they won't hold a charge. Keep up, haha they nearly over power. Like I said though, they are seeing 300w each. My 1 pair of coax is keeping up with my 2 15s on 8k. I'm throwing another set in to replace the 4x6 in the back because they aren't giving me any of the rear fill.

300watts on some 6.5" coax's isn't exactly high power to me. I have around 8-9kw for mids/highs.

mlstrass
10-31-2012, 06:24 AM
If it's a demo machine, I would want it to sound as good as possible. 30s demos may not need it, but in my world; I only build it if I would listen to it all day long without complaint. That means loud and clear.

I listen to mine all day long to/from shows, just not a full volume. Sounds very good on all types of music. And honestly if you didn't know it was PA stuff you wouldn't be able to tell the diff.

If it sounded like *** it would NOT be in my car. Pretty much why I got rid of the Boston Pro60's in the wife's ride, just couldn't stand the tweeters and mids had no midbass. Running PA mids and AQ supertweeters now and it sounds WAY better.

gckless
10-31-2012, 06:45 AM
300watts on some 6.5" coax's isn't exactly high power to me. I have around 8-9kw for mids/highs.

8-9kW on mids/highs???? Either you have some REALLY inefficient drivers, or you have some REALLY bad tinittus.

thevic24
10-31-2012, 06:57 AM
I have yet to hear any ride with pa gear that sounds good to me. Now I am not saying there is not one out there that will not sound good but I have not yet heard one.

Like that one guy that posted the vid of the "loudest camaro in the world" I actually got to hear that thing.....I wanted to kill my self and that car.

In all honesty, pa drivers are not meant for SQ, they are meant to be efficient and loud. But I could see where, if integrated properly, they could sound good in the right applications.

Now.....if the people around here could just figure this out....

mlstrass
10-31-2012, 07:18 AM
8-9kW on mids/highs???? Either you have some REALLY inefficient drivers, or you have some REALLY bad tinittus.

What???? Can't hear you :D And yes it's not good for my ears, but I only play it loud at shows and even then only a few songs at at time before giving my ears a break.

Most are 98dB sensitivity, some are 108, so no not all that inefficient...

mlstrass
10-31-2012, 07:20 AM
I have yet to hear any ride with pa gear that sounds good to me. Now I am not saying there is not one out there that will not sound good but I have not yet heard one.

Like that one guy that posted the vid of the "loudest camaro in the world" I actually got to hear that thing.....I wanted to kill my self and that car.

In all honesty, pa drivers are not meant for SQ, they are meant to be efficient and loud. But I could see where, if integrated properly, they could sound good in the right applications.

Now.....if the people around here could just figure this out....

Not sure why people keep throwing out SQ as I don't recall anyone saying these were SQ builds. Although didn't Richard Clark use PA mids in the GN?

People at concerts or small indoor venues never seem to complain about the sound and those are PA speakers.

Have to LOL about wanting to kill yourself as I've heard SOOOOO many set ups like that, from stock speakers, coax's, comps, and PA stuff. All about the install/tuning as you know...

whitedragon551
10-31-2012, 07:20 AM
Is it cool to have stupid, retardedly, distorted PA doors now? Has our beloved hobby turned into who can make the most noise no matter what it sounds like?

Discuss.

Never was cool.


PA doesn't always = bad sounding. Just saying...

It always sounds like ****.

CAT MAN
10-31-2012, 07:25 AM
if pa sounds so bad why do we not use car audio speakers in houses and concerts? o wait

mlstrass
10-31-2012, 07:49 AM
Never was cool.



It always sounds like ****.

And all SQ cars are quiet.....since we're now stereotyping :p:

thevic24
10-31-2012, 08:01 AM
if pa sounds so bad why do we not use car audio speakers in houses and concerts? o wait
Pa speakers are used at concerts for their efficiency. They need to be able to fill a large area with a great deal of sound.
It would take an whole lot of inefficient car speakers to do what one pa cabinet could do. I mean the average car speaker is what...about 89db@ 1w/1m..where as the average pa cab is....101-108db@ 1w/1m?

Now for home audio, I have yet to see good, quality company's use pa drivers.....
Infinity...no, McIntosh....no, Polk....no, Mirage....no...

Well you have Klipsch....very efficient but do not sound all that great. (*some* newer stuff is *ok*)

---------- Post added at 08:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 AM ----------


And all SQ cars are quiet.....since we're now stereotyping :p:
well compared to spl cars...they are:crazy:

wickedwitt
10-31-2012, 08:29 AM
300watts on some 6.5" coax's isn't exactly high power to me. I have around 8-9kw for mids/highs.

With 1200w total for mids/highs they are completely able to keep up with a 155+music van. I don't see why on earth you would need 8000w on mids/highs. That's just asking to go deaf.

Chrispy
10-31-2012, 01:08 PM
With 1200w total for mids/highs they are completely able to keep up with a 155+music van. I don't see why on earth you would need 8000w on mids/highs. That's just asking to go deaf.

Why do we need a 150+ DB of bass...... Bass is such a tiny percentage of the frequency in music.

whitedragon551
10-31-2012, 01:18 PM
if pa sounds so bad why do we not use car audio speakers in houses and concerts? o wait

Find a high quality in home system and you will not see any PA.


And all SQ cars are quiet.....since we're now stereotyping :p:

I didnt throw out a stereotype. I threw out a fact. You threw out a stereotype.

Kangaroux
10-31-2012, 01:24 PM
Why do we need a 150+ DB of bass...... Bass is such a tiny percentage of the frequency in music.

Some of us like it loud...I can honestly say 147-148 on music isn't really that much for me. I love the lows and being to feel it is a big part of it. Also, saying bass is a tiny percentage of the frequency range in music isn't exactly fair, since sound is logarithmic. The difference between 10kHz and 20kHz is 1 octave, and the difference between 30hz and 60hz is 1 octave as well, but that's a 10kHz difference vs. 30hz difference.

Chrispy
10-31-2012, 11:26 PM
Is it cool to have stupid, retardedly, distorted PA doors now? Has our beloved hobby turned into who can make the most noise no matter what it sounds like?

Discuss.

To answer this, No, it's not cool to have distorted mids/highs whether it's car audio or pro audio speakers.


Some of us like it loud...I can honestly say 147-148 on music isn't really that much for me. I love the lows and being to feel it is a big part of it. Also, saying bass is a tiny percentage of the frequency range in music isn't exactly fair, since sound is logarithmic. The difference between 10kHz and 20kHz is 1 octave, and the difference between 30hz and 60hz is 1 octave as well, but that's a 10kHz difference vs. 30hz difference.

I like my lows too but I preffer my mids and highs to over power my substage and I use big PA speakers to do that. And very good point about the frequency range. Never thought about it like that.

KyleBechtold
10-31-2012, 11:42 PM
I don't think most of the people in this thread
A. Know of mlstrass which is why people aren't listening to him.
B. Have heard more than their buddy down the blocks system with PA or maybe never heard any at all minus some hood rat driving by
C. even experimented with them

they are HUGE in Florida.. that being said they have been around for quite some time now and LOTS of people have figured them out and making them sound great and getting louder than car audio speakers could imagine.. I used to be in the same boat of oh they sound awful and couldn't EVER sound good.. Until I started hearing some people who have BEEN doing it for a while..

mlstrass
11-01-2012, 12:20 AM
Find a high quality in home system and you will not see any PA.



I didnt throw out a stereotype. I threw out a fact. You threw out a stereotype.

No you offered up YOUR opinion, which you're entitled to, but that does not make it a fact.

mlstrass
11-01-2012, 12:24 AM
With 1200w total for mids/highs they are completely able to keep up with a 155+music van. I don't see why on earth you would need 8000w on mids/highs. That's just asking to go deaf.

I need 8kw because I have 72 mids/tweeters in there and prefer to have "too much" in the way of power and speakers so I don't have to push stuff to the point of distortion...

Falcons
11-01-2012, 12:31 AM
you know whats not cool is not being able to find a 6-1/2" or 6" midbass driver that can play down to 60 hertz and is @ 4 ohm

wickedwitt
11-01-2012, 08:44 AM
I need 8kw because I have 72 mids/tweeters in there and prefer to have "too much" in the way of power and speakers so I don't have to push stuff to the point of distortion...
I like the idea of having head room on all your speakers so they last, but WOW 72 mids/highs....I'm sure you get some jaws to drop.

DDtC
11-01-2012, 07:33 PM
you know whats not cool is not being able to find a 6-1/2" or 6" midbass driver that can play down to 60 hertz and is @ 4 ohm

Not hard if you pay for it.

Falcons
11-01-2012, 09:36 PM
Not hard if you pay for it.

im all set now. silver flute 6.5" woofers and morel tweets

mlstrass
11-02-2012, 08:57 AM
I like the idea of having head room on all your speakers so they last, but WOW 72 mids/highs....I'm sure you get some jaws to drop.

Unfortunately I also seem to get the cops out to every show I attend...

wickedwitt
11-02-2012, 05:34 PM
:up2somet: