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View Full Version : Not happy with my sundown sa15



ArrizX
10-18-2012, 03:05 AM
So I just built a box that is 4.5 gross before sub, port and braces. I put it around 4 cubes net. Single 6" aero port tuned to 27. Rockford P500-1 powering it at 1ohm.

Sounds great when the volume is low but it sounds like crap up high. Its like I cant make the settings go low enough for tuning. Should I tune it higher? In the 33ish range. I listen to alot of dubstep/trance/progressive/dance type music. Think Cazette/Kaskade/Deadmau5/Kito & Rita Lee but also listen to music such as Rhianna/Eminem/Tech 9/Young Jeezy...... Rock such as Drowning pool/chevelle/theory of a dead man/Seether......

Anyways it all sounds great and I have a bass knob to adjust it per song but anything over 75% it sounds like crap. My last box that was like 2.5cubes ported way high with a slot port sounded way better at volume but not as good lower.

Whats going on? Tune higher? smaller box? **** it and get a better sub? I shouldnt need a better sub when I am only putting like 600 watts too it.

FlexnInLa
10-18-2012, 03:12 AM
3.5 after displacement at 35 might yield better results?

Might want to give Mobile Enclosures a shout about a box...

akheathen
10-18-2012, 03:20 AM
at about 12"^2 per ft, you are pretty much tuning more for a wider response than spl. this, is from what i remeber about aeroports back in the day, and calculated it as a standard 8"round port. if i'm mistaken here, then the smaller it calculates as, the less spl tuned it is. i bet it gets real loud down low, with the tuning, and sounds like poo, for what you primarily listen to. calculate exact volume, and then the tuning, might find that you are off a little. i would have to agree, that your tase will make you much happier in the 33-36hz range to get your electronica bass back, and not loose out on the low notes. more port area should get you some more db, as well. i normally tune my own enclosures in 33-34hz range, but go after 16" or better port area per cu-ft. this, makes some sacrifice in range, but i can just hang with the beats and such, while digging way down

TheUnderFighter
10-18-2012, 03:28 AM
Well you only have it on 500 watts, which isn't very much at all. I've never been a fan of bass knobs, does it control the gain, or the bass boost?
If it controls the gain, what was the position when you set the gain? Are you certain your gain is set correctly?

Bettr n' Revrse
10-18-2012, 03:29 AM
Blasphemy!

murph
10-18-2012, 03:39 AM
Bigger and better things may suit you...

NASTY08IMPALA
10-18-2012, 04:06 AM
Well start with ur box is too big and tuned wayy to low and no a sa 15 is bot gona sound great on 500 watts...try a new box and at least double the power

ArrizX
10-18-2012, 04:37 AM
3.5 after displacement at 35 might yield better results?

Might want to give Mobile Enclosures a shout about a box...

I dunno maybe?


at about 12"^2 per ft, you are pretty much tuning more for a wider response than spl. this, is from what i remeber about aeroports back in the day, and calculated it as a standard 8"round port. if i'm mistaken here, then the smaller it calculates as, the less spl tuned it is. i bet it gets real loud down low, with the tuning, and sounds like poo, for what you primarily listen to. calculate exact volume, and then the tuning, might find that you are off a little. i would have to agree, that your tase will make you much happier in the 33-36hz range to get your electronica bass back, and not loose out on the low notes. more port area should get you some more db, as well. i normally tune my own enclosures in 33-34hz range, but go after 16" or better port area per cu-ft. this, makes some sacrifice in range, but i can just hang with the beats and such, while digging way down

Sounds great loud and low. Anything that isnt really low though sounds like poo. I can hear more sub than bass if that makes sense. I want to say like it sounds like I have maxed the mechanical limits of the sub like it is bottoming out and just doesnt want to make the right noises for me lol


Well you only have it on 500 watts, which isn't very much at all. I've never been a fan of bass knobs, does it control the gain, or the bass boost?
If it controls the gain, what was the position when you set the gain? Are you certain your gain is set correctly?

No but from what ive been told and understand the bigger the box the less wattage you need because of less air resistance right? Anyways my amp is probably more like 600 or 650 watts I forgot waht the birthsheet said. But its right around RMS for my sub.


Bigger and better things may suit you...

Now was that a gay joke :uhoh:


Well start with ur box is too big and tuned wayy to low and no a sa 15 is bot gona sound great on 500 watts...try a new box and at least double the power

Why would I double the power when RMS what my amp is? Like I said above it sounds like I am bottoming out or something too when it gets way loud. I wish I could explain it better

DDtC
10-18-2012, 04:41 AM
Tuned way to low for a SA

NASTY08IMPALA
10-18-2012, 04:50 AM
Yea but that 600 rms is horribly underrated and the box is tuned way to low for a SA. but yes usually when underpowering a sub bigger box can help

ArrizX
10-18-2012, 04:51 AM
So I didnt actually build my box I just stood there and watched because my arm is casted right now due to awesome failure at dirt biking. Looks like it came out a little larger than planned at 4.70 cubes gross :crazy:

Can I still work with that and just change the tuning? What should I change it to for my sized box

NASTY08IMPALA
10-18-2012, 04:52 AM
Bc those things can handle 1200 all day long u have a problem with ur box /amp ...sa.s laugh at 600 watts

ArrizX
10-18-2012, 04:53 AM
Yea but that 600 rms is horribly underrated and the box is tuned way to low for a SA. but yes usually when underpowering a sub bigger box can help

Hmmm ok so give me a tuning number and ill change it tomorrow. ive been given a few ranges but ill be the first so say I have no ******* clue and am no good at this.

Someone also asked if my gain was set right. No it was set by me and i dont know what to really do I was pretty conservative with it. and the knob is for the bass boost. I set the sub where I like i with the knob in the middle so I can adjust up or down per song.

NASTY08IMPALA
10-18-2012, 04:53 AM
Id shoot for 34-35

ArrizX
10-18-2012, 04:53 AM
Okay perfect.Thanks

NASTY08IMPALA
10-18-2012, 04:55 AM
That may be why it sounds like ur sub is "bottoming out " does it make a slapping noise on high notes ?? Amp settings could be fudged

---------- Post added at 04:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:54 AM ----------

Still might wana watch out bc that box is still a litle oversized

ArrizX
10-18-2012, 04:56 AM
So when the psp calculator says Straight length of port is 9.43" and Flare length port required is 10.43 whats that mean? Because the flares are more than an inch tall? do I just cut the straight section down to 9.43 and leave the flares or should I measure overall flare to flare and make sure its 10.43??

ArrizX
10-18-2012, 04:58 AM
That may be why it sounds like ur sub is "bottoming out " does it make a slapping noise on high notes ?? Amp settings could be fudged

---------- Post added at 04:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:54 AM ----------

Still might wana watch out bc that box is still a litle oversized

I would say that is a good explanation. The gain is set under half and the frequency response is all the way down because anything higher then that sounds awful on the sub. I get speaker noise out of it

NASTY08IMPALA
10-18-2012, 05:00 AM
Not sure on the port n flare question ..dont mess with aeros...but u def have a prob if u cant turn ur lpf up at all

NASTY08IMPALA
10-18-2012, 05:03 AM
Sounds like with the flare u need to make the straight a certain lebgth and the make the rest of the length with the flare which will require cutting the flare...someone correct me if im tottaly off lol

ArrizX
10-18-2012, 05:04 AM
Hmmm Ok well either way ill shorten it way up and it should fix alot I would assume.

NASTY08IMPALA
10-18-2012, 05:06 AM
Make sure not.to shorten it too much or u will be tuned too high and it will really sound like ***

ArrizX
10-18-2012, 05:14 AM
For my size box every reduction of 1" of internal port increases my freq response by 1.2hz. I can get extremely close to 34 or 35. I will need to redo the brace we did at the end of the tube though....... oh well.

NASTY08IMPALA
10-18-2012, 05:23 AM
Well good luck man ..ive had 1 sa12 on a saz1000 then 2 sa12.s on 2 saz1000 absolutly loved them

ArrizX
10-18-2012, 05:29 AM
Thanks ill let you know how it turns out.

Does it matter that the sub is in an extended cab superduty sub forward port drivers side

NASTY08IMPALA
10-18-2012, 05:35 AM
Should be ok did a zv3 in my buddies ranger it was sub up port drivers side ..it was 3.1 cubes with like a 18 inch external 8" aero

akheathen
10-18-2012, 05:47 AM
i would do port passenger side, and i believe the vehicle is contributing to the low frequency with cabin gain. in that case, it's okay to be a little higher on the tuning. just at or a little below what i would do for port size, though...

TaylorFade
10-18-2012, 06:05 AM
27hz. Lmao. Did you say this was an HT build?

You crazy kids.

quackhead
10-18-2012, 07:15 AM
So I didnt actually build my box I just stood there and watched because my arm is casted right now due to awesome failure at dirt biking. Looks like it came out a little larger than planned at 4.70 cubes gross :crazy:

Can I still work with that and just change the tuning? What should I change it to for my sized box

your box is too big to be effective with that much power, I do not care how many watts other people have ran to the SA. At 3 cubes, you might be able to run 1kw to it, at 4 cubes you might run 6-700w to it..at 4.7 cubes, you should probably run about 400 watts rms to it. It is not the sub, they are some of the best 600w subs made. There is a reason manufacturers give specific enclosure recommendations and if you choose not to at least follow them in a general direction, do not complain about the result being the sub's fault. With the power you have, and your music preferences, you should seriously consider about 3.75 cubes net at 35hz with about 15 sq in of port per cube.

NASTY08IMPALA
10-18-2012, 07:20 AM
^^^ the troof

quackhead
10-18-2012, 07:32 AM
So I just built a box that is 4.5 gross before sub, port and braces. I put it around 4 cubes net. Single 6" aero port tuned to 27. Rockford P500-1 powering it at 1ohm.

Sounds great when the volume is low but it sounds like crap up high. Its like I cant make the settings go low enough for tuning. Should I tune it higher? In the 33ish range. I listen to alot of dubstep/trance/progressive/dance type music. Think Cazette/Kaskade/Deadmau5/Kito & Rita Lee but also listen to music such as Rhianna/Eminem/Tech 9/Young Jeezy...... Rock such as Drowning pool/chevelle/theory of a dead man/Seether......

Anyways it all sounds great and I have a bass knob to adjust it per song but anything over 75% it sounds like crap. My last box that was like 2.5cubes ported way high with a slot port sounded way better at volume but not as good lower.

Whats going on? Tune higher? smaller box? **** it and get a better sub? I shouldnt need a better sub when I am only putting like 600 watts too it.

what do you mean by this?..HU vol, or bass boost setting?...either way and I bet you are clipping, what HU are you running, exactly?

TheUnderFighter
10-18-2012, 12:31 PM
Yea it's a big box, but he's got it on conservative power, so it shouldn't be that much of an issue. Yes, you're also tuned too low. But that shouldn't make the sub sound awful, that would just limit how high it can play.
I think this comes down to settings. It sounds like you're clipping and distorting.
I want to make sure your bass or EQ settings aren't cranked up or maxed?
I want to make sure your Bass Boost is set to 0 or Flat at all times. Bass boost should only be used in rare situations where you've done a full RTA sweep in your car, and detect a specific drop in that frequency range due to design, install, and cabin. Even then, it is to be used very conservatively.
I want to know where your LPF is set.
And lastly, you need to set your gains PROPERLY, with a DMM. The gain knob position and eyeballing method does not count. Google "How to set gain with DMM" to learn how.

ArrizX
10-18-2012, 03:19 PM
So I should just get a sundown z v3 then :laugh:

sundownz
10-18-2012, 03:24 PM
If I understand correctly you are saying the "higher" bass notes don't sound great ? If so -- the large box and low tuning are going to result in a setup that is going to play low and that is about it. The 27 Hz tuning is only reducing woofer excursion up to 36 hz or so -- in a car the box is probably loading and tuning itself even lower.

As suggested earlier shrink the box / tune in the mid 30s -- should be good to go !

ArrizX
10-18-2012, 03:53 PM
Thanks for the reply. What is the result if I kept the box the same and tuned higher? Doesnt matter I am going to try and then if it doesnt work out ill just try a different box.

mlstrass
10-19-2012, 03:24 AM
you can use 2x4's to take up volume in the box. Bigger box usually gets louder off less power, but you can only go so much bigger before the sub just won't be happy. With your tuning you're at that point right now. As suggested tune higher and take up volume and you should be much happier for the music you listen to...

Dtrom
10-19-2012, 03:29 AM
Someone is unhappy with a sundown product? Hell has frozen over.

hispls
10-19-2012, 03:31 AM
Add another 6" aero port the same length and buy a better amp.

Tuned too low, port is quite small, and you could double up on power.

If sub sounds fine until you turn it way up, don't turn it up that high, you're pushing the amp beyond its limits.

Iosias
10-19-2012, 03:53 AM
Get a box designed to what you want....

TheUnderFighter
10-19-2012, 11:54 AM
Yea it's a big box, but he's got it on conservative power, so it shouldn't be that much of an issue. Yes, you're also tuned too low. But that shouldn't make the sub sound awful, that would just limit how high it can play.
I think this comes down to settings. It sounds like you're clipping and distorting.
I want to make sure your bass or EQ settings aren't cranked up or maxed?
I want to make sure your Bass Boost is set to 0 or Flat at all times. Bass boost should only be used in rare situations where you've done a full RTA sweep in your car, and detect a specific drop in that frequency range due to design, install, and cabin. Even then, it is to be used very conservatively.
I want to know where your LPF is set.
And lastly, you need to set your gains PROPERLY, with a DMM. The gain knob position and eyeballing method does not count. Google "How to set gain with DMM" to learn how.

Still haven't addressed any of this.

mklett33
10-19-2012, 01:18 PM
what do you mean by this?..HU vol, or bass boost setting?...either way and I bet you are clipping, what HU are you running, exactly?


Still haven't addressed any of this.


What these guys are saying! I would look at making sure you have a nice clean signal before doing anything to the box, after that then I would suggest going for a higher tuing. 32-36 range

ArrizX
10-19-2012, 04:35 PM
what do you mean by this?..HU vol, or bass boost setting?...either way and I bet you are clipping, what HU are you running, exactly?

HU is Kenwon Excelon x896


Yea it's a big box, but he's got it on conservative power, so it shouldn't be that much of an issue. Yes, you're also tuned too low. But that shouldn't make the sub sound awful, that would just limit how high it can play.
I think this comes down to settings. It sounds like you're clipping and distorting.
I want to make sure your bass or EQ settings aren't cranked up or maxed?
I want to make sure your Bass Boost is set to 0 or Flat at all times. Bass boost should only be used in rare situations where you've done a full RTA sweep in your car, and detect a specific drop in that frequency range due to design, install, and cabin. Even then, it is to be used very conservatively.
I want to know where your LPF is set.
And lastly, you need to set your gains PROPERLY, with a DMM. The gain knob position and eyeballing method does not count. Google "How to set gain with DMM" to learn how.

thanks for the replies I msised them.

Bass is a -6 and subwoofer is a 0 or -1 usually. Since I had it tuned low I turned all the EQ settings as low as possible. Bass boost is always off however I have the little thumb control (aka cop saver) and I set that in the middle and control it per song. Is that a bass boost control?

Ill need to learn how to do it correctly with the dmm.




In other news I took it up to 35 hz and it sounds worse.

I am going to put it in the old box and build a new one and do it right this time. Thanks for all the hlepful info and will continue to take advice if anyone has it for me...................

Jerhemy
10-19-2012, 05:00 PM
good luck with the new box man! post up some pics if you get a chance, some great advice in this thread so far. My sa 15's are tuned to ~35hz in a common chamber, 6cubic feet after displacement with ~1200 rms on each and they sound great through almost all notes, from 25 to 80hz where i have the LPF set at.

quackhead
10-19-2012, 06:00 PM
So I just built a box that is 4.5 gross before sub, port and braces. I put it around 4 cubes net. Single 6" aero port tuned to 27. Rockford P500-1 powering it at 1ohm.

Sounds great when the volume is low but it sounds like crap up high. Its like I cant make the settings go low enough for tuning. Should I tune it higher? In the 33ish range. I listen to alot of dubstep/trance/progressive/dance type music. Think Cazette/Kaskade/Deadmau5/Kito & Rita Lee but also listen to music such as Rhianna/Eminem/Tech 9/Young Jeezy...... Rock such as Drowning pool/chevelle/theory of a dead man/Seether......

Anyways it all sounds great and I have a bass knob to adjust it per song but anything over 75% it sounds like crap. My last box that was like 2.5cubes ported way high with a slot port sounded way better at volume but not as good lower.

Whats going on? Tune higher? smaller box? **** it and get a better sub? I shouldnt need a better sub when I am only putting like 600 watts too it.

like it has been said, try 3.5 net @ 33-35hz
Sundown recommends 3-4 cubes at 35hz.

skylineTT
10-19-2012, 06:29 PM
Step 1, turn Gain(sometimes called level) DOWN on your amp to 0, then go to your head unit and turn the Subwoofer and Bass settings to 0 instead of -6 and -1.

Then turn the gain on the amplifier back up until the sub is playing well. I don't know how trained your ear is, but you can usually be safe by turning it up til it distorts, then turning it back down a little.

Make sure you do the amp tuning when the head unit volume is at the max that you will listen to.

Basically, I feel like your amp is probably distorting balls because you have the gain cranked and the head unit settings too low.

TheUnderFighter
10-19-2012, 11:50 PM
Bass is a -6 and subwoofer is a 0 or -1 usually. Since I had it tuned low I turned all the EQ settings as low as possible. Bass boost is always off however I have the little thumb control (aka cop saver) and I set that in the middle and control it per song. Is that a bass boost control?

Ill need to learn how to do it correctly with the dmm.


Ok. So your EQ and bass settings are fine then. Though, I would leave them set to 0... At least the Bass part. Subwoofer level you can turn up and down. That's what I use for my cop saver. I leave it at 0. If there's a cop, I turn it down to whatever if I don't want to turn my volume down.
For the knob... leave it in the middle, turn it down if you need. When you turn it up, it will either boost the bass, or increase the gain, neither of which you want.
As for setting the gain.... any of these will show you how. Though, I would use a 50hz tone instead of a 60hz tone.
How to Adjust Amplifier Gains Using a Digital Multi-Meter - Knowledge Base (http://knowledge.sonicelectronix.com/car-audio-and-video/car-amplifiers/how-to-adjust-amplifier-gains-using-a-digital-multi-meter.html)
How To: Set your Amplifier Gain - SSA Car Audio Forum (http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/topic/3704-how-to-set-your-amplifier-gain/)
How to Set Amp Gain With a Multimeter | eHow.com (http://www.ehow.com/how_8669566_set-amp-gain-multimeter.html)

JoeK
10-19-2012, 11:56 PM
tune to at LEAST 32; thats the sweet spot (:

mklett33
10-20-2012, 08:32 AM
Step 1, turn Gain(sometimes called level) DOWN on your amp to 0, then go to your head unit and turn the Subwoofer and Bass settings to 0 instead of -6 and -1.

Then turn the gain on the amplifier back up until the sub is playing well. I don't know how trained your ear is, but you can usually be safe by turning it up til it distorts, then turning it back down a little.

Make sure you do the amp tuning when the head unit volume is at the max that you will listen to.

Basically, I feel like your amp is probably distorting balls because you have the gain cranked and the head unit settings too low.

Second.

Bass4Days
04-13-2013, 10:56 AM
Go with 3.5 cubes on low power you can go a little big. Now i know for a fact when i tune my boxes low. you can only play chopped and screwed or low low hitting songs. Rock music calls for higher tuning. In a low tuned box double kicks will be non existent and rock music will sound like ****. Go for around 34 35Hz and u can get the best of both worlds. And i know there rated at 600 watts but you really need at least 1000 rms. 500 wont get that thing moving

Beatin'
04-13-2013, 11:23 AM
I thought it didn't matter how low you tune a ported box or how big it is because frequencies above tuning will cause the box to act like it's sealed?

05trailblazer
04-13-2013, 11:49 AM
I thought it didn't matter how low you tune a ported box or how big it is because frequencies above tuning will cause the box to act like it's sealed?

whut? explain more in details?

Bass4Days
04-13-2013, 12:03 PM
no that makes no sense. You cant go as big as you want or your speaker will free air and u cant tune as low as you want because you wont hit higher freq. notes. If you tune low for rap music your box will **** at rock. same the other way around. The size and tuning of your box is more important than your woofer amp batteries etc...You have a **** box your whole system is **** plain and simple

Austin175
04-13-2013, 12:13 PM
get the tuning around 35hrtz an more power should give you better resaults. i have my pair in a 7cf box tuned to 35hrtz an they down an sound great.

Beatin'
04-13-2013, 12:39 PM
You cant go as big as you want or your speaker will free air

this may be true. But high qts driver should be able to handle it. The SA15's qts is 0.65 which is pretty high. It needs a big box.


u cant tune as low as you want because you wont hit higher freq. notes

I don't believe that at all. That's BS. Tuning has nothing to do with anything. Just like in a sealed box, if it's too big and your QTC alignment is like 0.30, your low end will be bumped up but your high end will suffer. The opposite is true too, if the QTC is 1.0 and higher, your upper bass will slam but your low end will be gone.

In relation to ported boxes, there is a similar effect. However, it should be less noticable (in theory...) due to the ported box's design intent to get increased low end.