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View Full Version : No Mid Bass From My ID XS65's



07maximan
10-16-2012, 06:17 PM
I recently had some custom work done in my car to accomodate my amps and subs,not only does it sound great...it looks awesome.

While I had it in the shop they did a complete tune for me. I have an ID 1200.1, ID 450.4 Audiocontrol EQS and a Pioneer AVH 8400. Over all every thing sounds good,but my ID's have no mid bass. The installer tried to coax some out but almost no results. If I crank up the bass boost I get some,but I think it might be just distortion. I installed them myself and used plenty of Dynamat on the doors. I covered all the holes too...Im lost.

The installer showed me the start of his project in his car. He had a JL HD amp(150x4) with some C5's in the front doors. I was blown away!! His doors very vibrating from the bass. He didnt even really do to much to his either, he said he just put some Dynamat around the speaker.

Now they are trying to sell me kick panels. He said it will make the speakers sound way better. Im not opposed to spending the money but is it really necessary? They are around 500.00...

Firebird 1991
10-16-2012, 06:21 PM
if your speakers are mounted infinite baffle then you will lose mid bass, i have my mid bass 6.5s in a fiberglass door pod that i made and it yielded way better mid bass.

trumpet
10-16-2012, 06:28 PM
if your speakers are mounted infinite baffle then you will lose mid bass, i have my mid bass 6.5s in a fiberglass door pod that i made and it yielded way better mid bass.

Not everyone going that route will get better midbass. Most mids are meant to be mounted in a door, and the door can be treated to get better midbass response. The treatments I use and prefer and CLD damping tiles, closed cell foam and mass loaded vinyl as a sound barrier. You want to seal off the rear sound waves from the front in order to reduce harmful cancellation.

Sonic.
10-16-2012, 06:29 PM
The probably trying to screw you over to buy kicks. Have some one else look at the tuning.

Firebird 1991
10-16-2012, 06:30 PM
where can you get the CLD dampening tiles?

Also what do you think about the foam boots that you can mount the speaker in?

07maximan
10-16-2012, 06:38 PM
Thanks guys.

I dont think they are trying to screw me over, Ive been a good customer to them and Ive got to know the installer very well.

Whats infinite baffle? I never heard that term before...

07maximan
10-17-2012, 12:01 AM
Am I giving them enough power? Is 75 per side enough for these? I'm thinking about switching to the JL's.... It seems like a lot of people have complained about the lack of mid bass from the ID's. I don't want to spend the money on kick panels and still have weak mid bass.

I'm not sure what to do here. Any one else have any advice?

Why So Cereal?
10-17-2012, 12:10 AM
Not everyone going that route will get better midbass. Most mids are meant to be mounted in a door, and the door can be treated to get better midbass response. The treatments I use and prefer and CLD damping tiles, closed cell foam and mass loaded vinyl as a sound barrier. You want to seal off the rear sound waves from the front in order to reduce harmful cancellation.

This post that u ignored gave u all the advice u need.

Seal and deaden those doors properly or you'll spend buttloads and still have no midbass.

More than just dynamat.....

07maximan
10-17-2012, 12:21 AM
This post that u ignored gave u all the advice u need.

Seal and deaden those doors properly or you'll spend buttloads and still have no midbass.

More than just dynamat.....


I guess I kind of did ignore it. I don't really know what else to do to the doors. I can't get to the inside of the door if that's what needed. I have to be honest I thought I did a good job sealing it with Dynamat. The installer who has the JL's did almost nothing to his doors and the mid bass blows mine away. I'm really at a loss here... It just doesn't make sense. I mean, when I say I have no mid bass... I have none. When I turn my subs down it sounds like music in a tin can. I don't know how much to expect but I know I expect more than I'm getting...

Why So Cereal?
10-17-2012, 12:27 AM
I guess I kind of did ignore it. I don't really know what else to do to the doors. I can't get to the inside of the door if that's what needed. I have to be honest I thought I did a good job sealing it with Dynamat. The installer who has the JL's did almost nothing to his doors and the mid bass blows mine away. I'm really at a loss here... It just doesn't make sense. I mean, when I say I have no mid bass... I have none. When I turn my subs down it sounds like music in a tin can. I don't know how much to expect but I know I expect more than I'm getting...

What are your crossover points?

Have u checked for cancellation? (Fade to one side and see if midbass improves)

mlstrass
10-17-2012, 04:59 AM
x2 what is the HPF set at? Could be filtering out the bottom end...

07maximan
10-17-2012, 11:58 AM
What are your crossover points?

Have u checked for cancellation? (Fade to one side and see if midbass improves)

I read this some place else so I tried it with no luck. As far as the HPF, on the HU its set at 63. On the amp I don't know, I cant see it because of the way they are installed. Its weird because if I play with the HU settings( Bass boost, loudness and EQ) it doesn't change very much at all.,

trumpet
10-17-2012, 12:02 PM
I guess I kind of did ignore it. I don't really know what else to do to the doors. I can't get to the inside of the door if that's what needed. I have to be honest I thought I did a good job sealing it with Dynamat. The installer who has the JL's did almost nothing to his doors and the mid bass blows mine away. I'm really at a loss here... It just doesn't make sense. I mean, when I say I have no mid bass... I have none. When I turn my subs down it sounds like music in a tin can. I don't know how much to expect but I know I expect more than I'm getting...

You really don't need to get far inside the doors to treat them. Once you have your sound deadener you can cut it into strips that are narrow enough to fit through the speaker hole and then try to cover the outer door skin by 25%. There's no need to cover every square inch. The foam and vinyl I mentioned go between the inner trim panel and the inside of the metal frame. You'll want to talk to Don at Sound Deadener Showdown. He's on here under the username Rudy.

07maximan
10-17-2012, 03:52 PM
You really don't need to get far inside the doors to treat them. Once you have your sound deadener you can cut it into strips that are narrow enough to fit through the speaker hole and then try to cover the outer door skin by 25%. There's no need to cover every square inch. The foam and vinyl I mentioned go between the inner trim panel and the inside of the metal frame. You'll want to talk to Don at Sound Deadener Showdown. He's on here under the username Rudy.


Thanks for the advice...

I have another question now, forget about the doors for a second. How much do you think a kick panel will change the sound of the speakers in my car? The installer said " it will be a night and day difference"... While I do trust him, he could be just trying to get me to spend some money. He said he would build me some,run all the wires,mount everything and re-tune for around 500.00,what do you think about that?

07maximan
10-17-2012, 03:53 PM
Double post

ramos
10-17-2012, 04:23 PM
if your speakers are mounted infinite baffle then you will lose mid bass , i have my mid bass 6.5s in a fiberglass door pod that i made and it yielded way better mid bass.


How they are installed for optimal performance is VERY driver dependant. Some midbass speakers excel in IB installations, while others want small sealed enclosures.

ramos
10-17-2012, 04:26 PM
Thanks for the advice...

I have another question now, forget about the doors for a second. How much do you think a kick panel will change the sound of the speakers in my car? The installer said " it will be a night and day difference"... While I do trust him, he could be just trying to get me to spend some money. He said he would build me some,run all the wires,mount everything and re-tune for around 500.00,what do you think about that?

kick locations can dramtically improve sound, or turn it into complete utter crap. depends on if the person building them has a clue about what they are doing, or if they are after a quick buck. I would ask the installer To provide an explanation of how it will improve the sound. Also ask for xover points for your specific tune while your there.

Shinju
10-17-2012, 04:27 PM
Crossover points would be an issue, sounds like op is using passive crossovers imo. Same as above deaden the hell out of your doors, I dont even run my sub 90% of the time since my midbass is that detailed :)

Good luck!

07maximan
10-17-2012, 05:00 PM
Crossover points would be an issue, sounds like op is using passive crossovers imo. Same as above deaden the hell out of your doors, I dont even run my sub 90% of the time since my midbass is that detailed :)

Good luck!


Yup passive crossovers. What kind of speakers do you use? Id love to get that kind of mid bass response.

The shop I deal with is not out to make a buck. They been in the same location for over 10 years and do some very high end work.I do trust them, I just dont want to spend 500.00 when I could have spent 50.00 for some more sound deadener. Could the speakers be a problem?

07maximan
10-17-2012, 05:19 PM
How they are installed for optimal performance is VERY driver dependant. Some midbass speakers excel in IB installations, while others want small sealed enclosures.


Can you elaborate on this? I did use a 3/4 spacer that is made from plastic...would that be a problem? What makes a good install from a bad one?

Shinju
10-17-2012, 08:01 PM
Yup passive crossovers. What kind of speakers do you use? Id love to get that kind of mid bass response.

The shop I deal with is not out to make a buck. They been in the same location for over 10 years and do some very high end work.I do trust them, I just dont want to spend 500.00 when I could have spent 50.00 for some more sound deadener. Could the speakers be a problem?

I run hybrid audio imagine 6.5" midbass drivers, I have them at 100-45hz 24db slope 130+rms per driver. I also run a 3 way active set up.

When I was running passives I noticed my midbass was lacking severly I will never go back!

ramos
10-18-2012, 07:55 AM
Can you elaborate on this? I did use a 3/4 spacer that is made from plastic...would that be a problem? What makes a good install from a bad one?



what I mean is not every speaker is identical. Each one has different enclosure needs to perform at thier best. I have installed many sets of 65's in doors with great results. HDPE is an excellent baffle material. I use it sometimes. I will drill mounting holes, then wrap the entire baffle in a layer of deadener before mounting it to the door.

A bad install would be throwing the speakers in the door and expecting rainbow riding unicorns carrying buckets of midbass to come rolling out. Vs a good install where the door is damped, the baffle is sturdy and mounted solidly to the door.

07maximan
10-18-2012, 10:17 PM
So as it turns out it was the crossover on the amp. It was set at over 120 hz. I couldnt check it myself because the install is custom and I didnt want to ruin it. He made an adjustment to the amp and EQ and now it sounds way better,at least in one speaker. I took one apart to check all my connections and make sure nothing behind it was bad...well it wasnt.

Thanks for the help everyone!!

Flipx99
10-19-2012, 10:53 AM
I have these same speakers. I felt no midbass for the longest until I completely sealed the door. At that point, it was much better.