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View Full Version : Sundown 2012 Frames : Samples Arrived



sundownz
10-02-2012, 10:13 AM
The samples arrived while I was out of town -- back now and on to the photos !

Weights :
10" 12-spoke : 1.7 lbs
10" Sundown : 4 lbs

12" 12-spoke : 2.3 lbs
12" Sundown : 5 lbs

15" 12-spoke : 3.4 lbs
15" Sundown : 7.9 lbs

Not a finely calibrated scale so within a few tenths.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6533.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6534.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6535.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6536.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6537.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6538.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6539.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6540.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6541.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6542.JPG

sundownz
10-02-2012, 10:13 AM
http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6543.JPG

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6547.JPG
* THICK rim -- no more cracked rim with over-tightened screws or with a super heavy motor.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6548.JPG
* THICK base -- no worries about bolts pulling through even with motors 2-3x heavier than we use now.

-----

Still awaiting our new cones and surrounds to arrive... then we can do some building and show off what these can do !

-----

Mocked up on a motor with our new spacer ring... very similar to the Z v.3 18" spacer but the ID matches our new frame base and this one is a bit thicker to allow a bit more air flow as the new frames have more displacement potential. The same spacer works on all sizes 10/12/15 as well.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6549.JPG
* Inner air passage on spacer

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6551.JPG
* Outer air passage

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6550.JPG
* This is a 12" frame and motor mock-up; proportionately looks alot like the SA-8 v.2

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6552.JPG

Spooney
10-02-2012, 10:52 AM
http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6551.JPG
* Outer air passage

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6550.JPG
* This is a 12" frame and motor mock-up; proportionately looks alot like the SA-8 v.2

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Samples_Shop/CIMG6552.JPG

That just looks sick man. I want it . Spider Landing 8 inches or bigger?

sundownz
10-02-2012, 10:54 AM
The 10" has 8 3/8" -- the 12" has 9 1/4" -- the 15" has 10 1/8" spider

Dtrom
10-02-2012, 10:58 AM
Beefy!!!!!

Hall_393
10-02-2012, 11:00 AM
I want one :)

Serpent710
10-02-2012, 11:03 AM
looking forward to seeing the softies for them!

AwesomeStranger
10-02-2012, 11:29 AM
Wow those look amazing. The new lineup is gonna be great.

IAD-Zak
10-02-2012, 11:45 AM
makes me want to sell a kidney to do a new install with these

BAPEKC
10-02-2012, 11:52 AM
Got my attention!

SourDeez
10-02-2012, 12:07 PM
I didnt say you could go out of town jacob

hispls
10-02-2012, 12:34 PM
Can't say I'm in love with non-standard spider sizes, but they sure look nice and functional.

sundownz
10-02-2012, 12:47 PM
Can't say I'm in love with non-standard spider sizes, but they sure look nice and functional.

You can glue an 8" spider to any of them still :) They have multiple landings -- but our 8" landing is over-sized to also accept the 8 3/8" model.

There is enough glue pad that most 8, 9, and 10" units will glue right on.

dbjunior
10-02-2012, 03:19 PM
Can't wait to order a couple baskets cones and spiders. Are the spacers the same. For all baskets or each basket have a different Spacer?

hispls
10-02-2012, 03:21 PM
You can glue an 8" spider to any of them still :) They have multiple landings -- but our 8" landing is over-sized to also accept the 8 3/8" model.

There is enough glue pad that most 8, 9, and 10" units will glue right on.

Flexibility is great. Thank you for pushing some innovation.

sundownz
10-02-2012, 04:02 PM
Can't wait to order a couple baskets cones and spiders. Are the spacers the same. For all baskets or each basket have a different Spacer?

This new spacer ring is uniform for 10/12/15 -- on the old models we had to make 3 different units 10/12, 15, and 18 as the frames don't have the same bottom OD.

Imtjnotu
10-02-2012, 04:04 PM
people may hug ur nuts jacob but there is no denying why....

Jaguar
10-02-2012, 08:00 PM
I'm no expert but these baskets seems like a quite an improvement in terms of strength and overall design. Did you get a patent for that design, when
if at any time, will these frames be part of a new Sundown 8", 10", 12" subwoofer line? Looks sturdy, do you mind if I ask if there is a difference in the
material used to cast these new frames that you used in the former, and what material was used in previous lines to now? My guess is some sort of die
cast metal composite.

sundownz
10-02-2012, 10:39 PM
I'm no expert but these baskets seems like a quite an improvement in terms of strength and overall design. Did you get a patent for that design, when
if at any time, will these frames be part of a new Sundown 8", 10", 12" subwoofer line? Looks sturdy, do you mind if I ask if there is a difference in the
material used to cast these new frames that you used in the former, and what material was used in previous lines to now? My guess is some sort of die
cast metal composite.

Yes; our SA-8 v.2 frame and all three of these are in the patent process and have been for some time now -- so they are protected. Once our 18" frame is tooled it will be patented as well.

Almost all speaker frames that are not stamped steel are cast aluminum -- as are these. You occasionally see polymer frames or other odd-balls but usually just steel or cast aluminum =)

These 10/12/15 frames will appear on all of our lines ABOVE the SA series; likely starting 1Q next year as it will take some time to get them in stock along with the soft parts -- unless a driver has a ton of excursion, power handling capacity, and/or serious heft to it then it's not worth it to use these due to the cost; so we'll reserve it for 3" and 4" coil drivers. As the original post indicates these have ALOT of aluminum in them -- basket production piece cost is almost directly proportional to mass so naturally :

10" 12-spoke : 1.7 lbs
10" Sundown : 4 lbs (2.35x material)

12" 12-spoke : 2.3 lbs
12" Sundown : 5 lbs (2.17x material)

15" 12-spoke : 3.4 lbs
15" Sundown : 7.9 lbs (2.32x material)

I do have some ideas in the works for a "light duty" tooled frame for the SA and SD-2 lines but these were my first priority as I feel that frames are more of a limit for me on beefier drivers -- the 4 and 12-spoke work well for 1kw and less units... none-the-less I do plan to bring my own frames out for smaller drivers later on.

TitoThePirate
10-02-2012, 10:54 PM
why the increase in depth?

sundownz
10-02-2012, 11:03 PM
why the increase in depth?

As a speaker moves both up and down you must have adequate clearance for the desired level of excursion in the rearward direction behind the spider; otherwise the spider will smash into the top plate. Being that we are shooting for over 4-5" p-p on these frames (depending on the size) -- we need to have 2-2.5" or more of space behind the spider to the top plate.

You also need adequate depth from the spider to the surround to ensure lateral coil stability (no ticking) and also to have enough cone depth so the cone doesn't rub against the spider at high levels of travel -- both 4 and 12-spoke frames are quite problematic in 10" size when using the 8" landing... and when using the lower landings you are limited by a smaller spider and less rearward clearance.

So the summary is actually simple -- for the speaker to move more we need a taller basket :)

TitoThePirate
10-02-2012, 11:04 PM
As a speaker moves both up and down you must have adequate clearance for the desired level of excursion in the rearward direction behind the spider; otherwise the spider will smash into the top plate. Being that we are shooting for over 4-5" p-p on these frames (depending on the size) -- we need to have 2-2.5" or more of space behind the spider to the top plate.

You also need adequate depth from the spider to the surround to ensure lateral coil stability (no ticking) and also to have enough cone depth so the cone doesn't rub against the spider at high levels of travel -- both 4 and 12-spoke frames are quite problematic in 10" size when using the 8" landing... and when using the lower landings you are limited by a smaller spider and less rearward clearance.

So the summary is actually simple -- for the speaker to move more we need a taller basket :)


Point taken. :D i like them anyways.

SPLaudio
10-05-2012, 11:12 AM
**** baskets ;)

sundownz
10-06-2012, 12:26 PM
Got some photos of the 10" cone/surround -- the first one to be completed. Stay tuned as the other sizes are completed.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Cones/10inch%20cone%20sample-1.jpg

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/New_Frames_2012/Cones/10inch%20cone%20sample-2.jpg

dbjunior
10-06-2012, 05:06 PM
Ill take a pair and baskets to match

itsblown
10-06-2012, 05:18 PM
Holy **** that cone and surround looks crazzy

N8er
10-07-2012, 01:19 AM
Whoa! Beefy. I can't wait to see a full mockup!

akheathen
10-07-2012, 02:09 AM
so, i'll ask again. when/can we buy individual parts? i surely could use a 12" basket for the phx2 i'm about to rebuild, and a surround for an alphasonic i'm going to upgrade. can't wait to see one of these in action.

FlexnInLa
10-07-2012, 03:14 AM
Good God those are hot. ETA on 15's?

Mitch86
10-07-2012, 04:46 AM
New frames and parts look beefy! Could you do a quick mock up on the 10" with a beefy motor? (Just for us to drool/wank to)

Bettr n' Revrse
10-07-2012, 05:23 AM
I dont care for the new frame but the surround looks fantastic

jaeguerra909
10-07-2012, 07:30 AM
**** Jacob the frames look nice as hell hey btw can I need a way to contact about an inquiry I tried sending an email to you but said the email did not exist gotta talk to the man himself thanks :)

sundownz
10-07-2012, 01:05 PM
New frames and parts look beefy! Could you do a quick mock up on the 10" with a beefy motor? (Just for us to drool/wank to)

Will do once the cones arrive. Im updating with factory pics on the cone now =)

sundownz
10-07-2012, 01:06 PM
**** Jacob the frames look nice as hell hey btw can I need a way to contact about an inquiry I tried sending an email to you but said the email did not exist gotta talk to the man himself thanks :)

Addy in my sig is good -- dont forget the "z"

sundownz
10-07-2012, 01:10 PM
so, i'll ask again. when/can we buy individual parts? i surely could use a 12" basket for the phx2 i'm about to rebuild, and a surround for an alphasonic i'm going to upgrade. can't wait to see one of these in action.

I havent posted nor do I know ETA yet. I will offer the parts for DIY but the frames wont be cheap (Id say similar if not a bit more than what mint TI frames go for). But stay tuned =)

jockhater2
10-07-2012, 01:11 PM
Are these for the NSv3?

NoLoud4U
10-07-2012, 01:13 PM
Good question. What's the word on the nightshades?

sundownz
10-07-2012, 01:15 PM
Good question. What's the word on the nightshades?

I was waiting on thes parts =) Also stay tuned for a VERY cool option that I am pretty sure will be an industry first on them!

As for these parts usage... all lines above the SA series.

jockhater2
10-07-2012, 01:25 PM
I was waiting on thes parts =) Also stay tuned for a VERY cool option that I am pretty sure will be an industry first on them!

As for these parts usage... all lines above the SA series.

So these baskets/cones are for the SAv3 models?

Any estimated time on the new NS?

sundownz
10-07-2012, 01:34 PM
So these baskets/cones are for the SAv3 models?

Any estimated time on the new NS?

Lines ABOVE the SA series ;) -- So upcoming "X" line (~1kw), Z line, and NS line.

Any ETAs will be posted when available as always.

jockhater2
10-07-2012, 01:40 PM
Lines ABOVE the SA series ;) -- So upcoming "X" line (~1kw), Z line, and NS line.

Any ETAs will be posted when available as always.

Sounds good! Oh nice. A new line up.

If the New NSv3 look anything like the mock up you gave. I might have to put my AA mayhems up for sale.

sundownz
10-07-2012, 01:45 PM
Sounds good! Oh nice. A new line up.

If the New NSv3 look anything like the mock up you gave. I might have to put my AA mayhems up for sale.

The NS v.3 motor is wider than the mocked up motor -- I've posted a few previews of it so far :

Sundown Nightshade v.3 Prototype Free Air - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWqweVbLuYc)

That was an early prototype on the 12-spoke frame; our new 10" frames use the same size spider as that prototype plus the surround doesn't limit anything on our new tooling (that spider will tear the surround used in the video over time) -- the production motor unit will be very similar minus the top shorting ring piece / the top plate frame landing will be wider to match the frame spacer. It's a wide 250mm motor (where the Z is a 220mm motor).

jockhater2
10-07-2012, 01:50 PM
The NS v.3 motor is wider than the mocked up motor -- I've posted a few previews of it so far :

Sundown Nightshade v.3 Prototype Free Air - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWqweVbLuYc)

That was an early prototype on the 12-spoke frame; our new 10" frames use the same size spider as that prototype plus the surround doesn't limit anything on our new tooling (that spider will tear the surround used in the video over time) -- the production motor unit will be very similar minus the top shorting ring piece / the top plate frame landing will be wider to match the frame spacer. It's a wide 250mm motor (where the Z is a 220mm motor).

So tempting.....

dbjunior
10-07-2012, 07:00 PM
One of my 10in 12 spokes just snapped in half time for recones gonna get a pair of baskets and cones as soon as available possible spiders if capable of more excursion than a normal 8in stiff spider

Mitch86
10-08-2012, 01:40 AM
Will do once the cones arrive. Im updating with factory pics on the cone now =)
Good deal. The NSv3 with that basket and soft parts is going to look awesome! And we know its going to perform! Makes me wanna jump back in the audio game...