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View Full Version : MurderMat vs Dynamat, FatMat, SecondSkin and Audio Technix



Jaguar
09-28-2012, 06:18 AM
Question; Why would someone looking to buy some sound deadening material choose MurderMat over another brand name such as Dynamat, FatMat,
SecondSkin, or even Audio Technix? I decided to take it upon myself apart from an upcoming personal review of the product to find out just that. Whether
your the new kid on your block or a distinguished car-audio enthusiast there are 3 main factors which come into play for both, just the same; Price, Materials used
(design), and Mils (thickness of the deadener). While I'm certain that anyone who's actually looked at the specs of MurderMat would not doubt it is capable of being
a great sound deadener, comparatively is there more to the company which differentiates itself from brand-names enough to choose it over them, the answer upon
my research was surprisingly a resounding yes in every category.



http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m72/store_age/mmvs3d.jpg


While there may be a follow up on my initial post on materials used, and perhaps even a more comprehensive look at the comparisons of price per SQ foot
(if I have time) the information in which my research yielded I thought was worth sharing had to do with Mils. I'll let the graph I made speak for itself, but
as far as price goes, I will say there were places that were selling the premium versions of the brand-names mentioned IE: Dynamat Extreme, FatMat
MegaMat, SecondSkin Damplifier Pro, and Audio Technix Pro, for nearly twice as per SQ foot of MurderMat, while none of the premium versions named
had as many mils as even the standard version of MurderMat BL. On the flip-side, the prices of the normal/standard versions of some of the brand names
mentioned were near or as expensive as the 90Mil premium MDK versions of sound deadener from MurderMat Sound Solutions.

TaylorFade
09-28-2012, 06:24 AM
Whoa. Outstanding research. You made a bar graph from the printed thickness of each product.

Great work. Very scientific. Extremely useful and informative.

Would read again.

Phoenix Risen
09-28-2012, 07:54 AM
well, i thought this was going to be something that i couldnt look up in 10 min... what a shame.

Imtjnotu
09-28-2012, 08:10 AM
wait.....wtf is the point of this thread....thickness fight?

whitedragon551
09-28-2012, 08:45 AM
Whoa. Outstanding research. You made a bar graph from the printed thickness of each product.

Great work. Very scientific. Extremely useful and informative.

Would read again.

Agreed. Advertised thickness is almost always wrong. You also forgot Second Skin Alphadamp.

OP you need to truly understand what deadener is for and the reasoning behind it before you can even begin putting together charts and tests. Just because something has a thicker aluminum layer to it doesnt mean the butyl is the correct formulation. There is a reason Asphalt based deadener ***** *** and does more harm than good.

nateberrier
09-28-2012, 08:46 AM
I think hes just informing the CA community of what they are getting there self into. IMO unless you got a helluva good deal on any of teh "name brand" deadner, why not go with something thats cheaper and now we know is thicker also. MURDERMAT FTMFW

how much is this shvt anyway??


Thickness and mass are not the same thing, and what you're trying to do is mass-load your panels. Not saying its a bad product, but I wouldnt endorse it on that claim alone.

Also iDGAF cause I get boxes of AT sent to my house regularly :P

West
09-28-2012, 09:25 AM
Thicker is better, ask a chick;)

Jroo
09-28-2012, 09:43 AM
Now Im looking for the other part of the review. Does the stuff last and stick? Ive used dynamat one time before and knew about price going in. I used it because I knew it would work and dampen like it was supposed to. I also didnt want to worry about my car smelling like someone was laying roof in there for 3 months like other brands. I am cool with a cheaper alternative, I just want more a longer term use review vs. telling me its thick.

adas
09-28-2012, 10:42 AM
Thats definitely an interesting graph!
Everybodys points in the thread are valid.

Our thickness is a selling point, but it's not just the thickness that we're trying to go for.
The deadener is pure butyl. No smell, no run, no gooey crap here.
The adhesive is super strong. For those using other deadeners for comparison, it is slightly stronger than even Dynamat Xtreme.
The BL series weighs in at .71lbs/sq.ft and the MDK at about .73lbs/sq.ft, adding more mass-loading than almost any other deadener out there.
Our aluminum thickness's are more than comparible to our competition, and the MDK exceeds most others.
The top layer we have not only looks great, it has function cutting down on cuts/lacerations during install... A LOT.

Some other factors to consider. End of the day we're not trying to attack other products, we're providing an strong alternative. :D

nateberrier
09-28-2012, 10:51 AM
Thats definitely an interesting graph!
Everybodys points in the thread are valid.

Our thickness is a selling point, but it's not just the thickness that we're trying to go for.
The deadener is pure butyl. No smell, no run, no gooey crap here.
The adhesive is super strong. For those using other deadeners for comparison, it is slightly stronger than even Dynamat Xtreme.
The BL series weighs in at .71lbs/sq.ft and the MDK at about .73lbs/sq.ft, adding more mass-loading than almost any other deadener out there.
Our aluminum thickness's are more than comparible to our competition, and the MDK exceeds most others.
The top layer we have not only looks great, it has function cutting down on cuts/lacerations during install... A LOT.

Some other factors to consider. End of the day we're not trying to attack other products, we're providing an strong alternative. :D

Could I orda uh sample ?

Hjbennett
09-28-2012, 07:00 PM
There is no problem with adhesion. You can remove it a few hours later, but it will not be in one pull nor will it come off in a full sheet. It will rip, tear, stretch, and distort. But it does not fall off. Of course ive only had it on a few days. But in mississippi heat its staying stuck. There is zero odor inside my car. I was concerned about the smell, but there is none at all. Pleasant suprise there. Ive never used anynother deadener, so i cant make a comparison. But bottom line, Murder Mat stopped the vibrations from my irritating vibrating rear deck. Finished one sidewall of my trunk today and though it didnt stop all the vibrating of my right rear bumper cover, it actually cut the noise about 50%. if i could find a way to deaden inside the bumper cover, id MM that too

Jaguar
09-28-2012, 07:35 PM
As I have stated at least 2X in the initial post, Price, Materials, and Mils are all important factors when deciding what sound deadener to buy. The
bar graph happens to be the result of what I was able to yield in terms of research a few hours after installing the majority of MurderMat I had in my
car impressed with the results as well as ease of application. It was not my intention to make other sound deadeners "look bad" in comparison to MM,
nor necessarily to make MurderMat even look better (although I admit I think it deserves attention). Numbers in the bar graph speak for themselves,
and by no means are they approximations fabricated by myself in terms of the source through which the information was yielded as I got them from
each companies respective official websites. I personally feel it's hard to argue that "advertised thickness is almost always wrong" so much when
you see the normal standard versions of deadener from Dynamat, FatMat, SecondSkin, and Audio Technix are half the mils of the standard ver
of MurderMat BL for just as much or more than the actual price per SQ foot of MurderMat, but, as always id like to think I'm open enough to take
every comment made whether "good" or ''bad" as a learning experience, so thank you. My review for MurderMat will be up likely on monday.


JAG

pro-rabbit
09-28-2012, 07:46 PM
You glossed over that those points are important to you, but not always the relevant factors when looking at these products.

In order for you to actually make any since of what you are trying to get at, you would need to understand more of how these products work and why. Then you can start to understand why no one here has said one nice thing about that graph. It is not because what is there is not "true" to an extent..but rather how you are presenting the information and what it shows.

Is MM a better product then all others? To be honest, I have not seen one test that would say yes or no. I would imagine we won't ever see that test.

You are taking very primitive information and strewing it out as the end all of information on deadener. The actual fact is you have not posted anything other then your personal thoughts on the products mentioned/listed.

Even MM came in to help clear this up a bit as it is not a very good graph to go by what so ever.

Jaguar
09-28-2012, 08:24 PM
You glossed over that those points are important to you, but not always the relevant factors when looking at these products.
Mils, Price, and Materials used are what points are important to me and not always relevant factors when deciding what sound deadener to buy?
You say such things, but never back up what you mean. Kind of like shooting blanks. Not the first time, but why? At a certain point people must
go beyond ''just your word for it'', for it to be validated.

Even MM came in to help clear this up a bit as it is not a very good graph to go by what so ever.
Pretty much just more baloney from pro-rabbit

The actual fact is you have not posted anything other then your personal thoughts on the products mentioned/listed.
I pulled all that information concerning mils directly from each companies respective websites, yet those are nothing other than my personal thoughts.
I'm not trying to say you don't have some good points, but GOD.

pro-rabbit
09-28-2012, 08:36 PM
I understand where you coming from. I really do and those are decent points.

However, a true test would be to get samples of each and actually measure them all out. Weigh them all out and then post up about it. Samples are cheap or even free if you ask. You seem to like digging around, maybe this would be a good project for you to do.

As many here have said though, those factors alone are not always the most important.

cyn
09-28-2012, 08:40 PM
Want to do a real test? Check out on AT or Alpha Damps sites at how they test theirs? maybe do a heat test... a vibration text on a 12x12 metal sheet, with a 4x4 piece of the mm, stuff like that...

jaeguerra909
09-28-2012, 09:09 PM
this kids a moron lol agh man funny stuff right here thanks for the mils graph thats about it im prtty sure it has alot more to do with then mils cuz rattle trap extreme says its 80 mil and that shits garbage i bought some stp atlantic 80 mil and that stuff is thick as hellllllll

TaylorFade
09-29-2012, 07:20 AM
The only "mils" that matter are the ones that indicate the thickness of the constraining layer (foil). You can have 1,000 mils of substrate and 1mil of foil and all you're doing is mass loading. And if you wanted to do that, you can just go grab some peel n' seal or FatMat rattle trap that's $1/ft.

Glad you're pleased with the product though. It's nice to have another $6/ft deadener to choose from :rollseyes:

Bettr n' Revrse
09-29-2012, 07:24 AM
I like it cuz it looks purty

tprj82
09-29-2012, 12:11 PM
Wow this is a shame, We have a new company trying to break in the market and actually give some people some products, Yet every time jag opens his mouth he brings down mm with him. Even if mm is no better then everything else out there and they are something new to the market that at least looks different then the industry standard. I just know one of the requirements of winning this product was having a good attitude yet this guy is the most flammable thing on ca.com right now. Seems like every topic he is in, turns into a troll session from people here. If you dont feed the trolls they have nothing, If you really wanna help mm jag keep your mouth shut install the product take pics of it in there say "it stop my rattle issues here, here, and here" and every once and while say hey its still standing strong.

Jaguar
09-29-2012, 01:47 PM
tprj82 I understand what your saying, and I share your concern but, if you take a careful look a what I wrote and how others responded given, this
happened to a versus thread, it's not unusual for people to disagree or even feel a need to express there is more to sound deadener than what I wrote.
It's a discussion, and the thread was created for the purpose of discussion nothing more. Some people offered up some good points despite disagreeing
and others were there usual selves. One or two people straight up trolled (LIKE av83, who has a tendency to be boisterous and stalks me on caraudio.com),
but that happens a LOT on car-audio.com. You should never let people like that get to you. Don't fall for it. I like MuderMat, It's obvious, OK I think the CO.
is outstanding, I think everyone gets that, but by no means whatsoever by creating a graph out of just a little excitement for the product after an install
was it my intention to make other products look bad or even necessarily make MurderMat look the best. All I ask is that people read what I wrote carefully,
and look and see how others responded given the content, thank you.

slim2fattycake
09-29-2012, 02:36 PM
The only "mils" that matter are the ones that indicate the thickness of the constraining layer (foil). You can have 1,000 mils of substrate and 1mil of foil and all you're doing is mass loading. And if you wanted to do that, you can just go grab some peel n' seal or FatMat rattle trap that's $1/ft.

Glad you're pleased with the product though. It's nice to have another $6/ft deadener to choose from :rollseyes:

Or use bricks. People always use this **** in the wrong application.

PS- SDS ftw :P

Flex68
09-29-2012, 02:51 PM
Opie,
I think maybe ur heart was in the right place when you did the graph. Unfortunately, just as Taylor pointed out, overall thickness isn't the be-all, end-all: the thickness of the constraining layer is a much better indicator of the deadening property of the product. And, as WD noted, all butyl is not designed equally, anyway.
Regardless, you're going down the long and tuff path by attempting to do this sort of comparison...plus you're chasing Don's coattails, as he has already invested far more effort and expense than most ever will in real-world testing and research.
There is a reason for saying SDS FTMFW !

Would you be willing to get samples of all these products and bake them to see at what temp the adhesive fails, or the butyl melts, or the constraining layer uncouples, etc ad nauseum? Much less weighing them, measuring the foil, doing RTA comparisons of percentage sound deadening on sheet metal?
I am guessing not.

Likely better just to regroup, and sorta follow the advice offered by tprj...

Jaguar
09-29-2012, 04:33 PM
Thanks flex that would really be something if I had samples of each of the brands products to test them out, but even if I did I realize I don't
have the experience to do it properly, aside from personal opinion. Honestly I was just kind of excited about the product. After I tore out my trunk,
I felt as if I was faced with the daunting task to install all the MurderMat properly, I had never done it before but you know what it ended up not
only being easy, but enjoyable as well. I had a little extra time on my hands, and that's when I decided to make the bar graph. I thought people
would like it. I'm sure someone out there appreciates the effort.

Jaguar
10-01-2012, 02:06 AM
Here is what my research on Constraining layers yielded. I have not had that much personal experience with sound deadeners, but I thought
the 2 mil thick vinyl top layer over the 5mil BL and 8mil MDK versions of MurderMat was unique. My girlfriend who used to DJ told me it was
vinyl, otherwise I would probably not have recognized it. I felt it helped prevent a lot of cuts and tears as opposed to other sound deadeners
named who for the most part top layer is just foil. If I'm mistaken about that, im sure someone will let me know..


http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m72/store_age/mmclay.jpg

JAG

Flex68
10-01-2012, 02:09 AM
Like a bulldog. :thumbsup:

whitedragon551
10-01-2012, 08:00 AM
Here is what my research on Constraining layers yielded. I have not had that much personal experience with sound deadeners, but I thought
the 2 mil thick vinyl top layer over the 5mil BL and 8mil MDK versions of MurderMat was unique. My girlfriend who used to DJ told me it was
vinyl, otherwise I would probably not have recognized it. It felt it helped prevent a lot of cuts and tears as opposed to other sound deadeners
named who for the most part top layer is just foil. If I'm mistaken about that, im sure someone will let me know..


http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m72/store_age/mmclay.jpg

JAG

Your DJ girlfriend doesnt know anything about car audio applications. The butyl layer is there because it takes the energy from vibrations absorbs them and that energy turns into heat. Its then dissipated through the aluminum layer of foil. Without that butyl layer or aluminum foil it doesnt work. Thats why Peel N Seal *****.

Jaguar
10-01-2012, 12:03 PM
Your DJ girlfriend doesnt know anything about car audio applications. The butyl layer is there because it takes the energy from vibrations absorbs them and that energy turns into heat. Its then dissipated through the aluminum layer of foil. Without that butyl layer or aluminum foil it doesn't work. Thats why Peel N Seal *****.
I never said my girlfriend knew anything about car audio-applications or anything remotely like it. I simply stated she recognized the top layer of MurderMat
was vinyl. Also I never once broke down or even remotely argued how sound deadener works. I have been studying up on sound deadener a lot lately so I
already knew that, but regardless I'd like to thank you for that explanation. This post here (http://www.caraudio.com/forums/general-discussion/527041-sound-deadening.html#post7794570) by audioholic seemed to help a lot, for anyone that's interested
in learning more about how sound deadener works check it out. The information is broken down on SDS (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi) site helped plenty.

ewadz3006
10-01-2012, 12:32 PM
my question is this jag, if you hadn't won would you have bought murdermat? would you still be promoting them the way you are? to put this lightly your swinging pretty hard.
I guess i would be wound up about winning too, but ****.

CHEMMINS
10-01-2012, 12:34 PM
Wow....I'm gonna make a deadener that has a minimum 1" of butyl, and 10 gauge foil on it.....it will make it the thickest, most bestest deadener ever.

ewadz3006
10-01-2012, 12:45 PM
Wow....I'm gonna make a deadener that has a minimum 1" of butyl, and 10 gauge foil on it.....it will make it the thickest, most bestest deadener ever.

heck with the foil use galvanized steel. it will be able to stop bullets.

Jaguar
10-01-2012, 01:03 PM
my question is this jag, if you hadn't won would you have bought murdermat? would you still be promoting them the way you are? to put this lightly your swinging pretty hard. I guess i would be wound up about winning too, but ****.
LOL. Your thinking too much about this, I'm just having fun. It's not like it's something I'm constantly up to, I'll probably forget I have it installed in a month.
I was one of the people chosen in a giveaway, but ya I'd buy some if I wasn't chosen. I stated it a few times before. NBD. I'm not promoting anyone by the
way, It's just a discussion, several other brands were mentioned for comparison. I feel you though haha.

CAT MAN
10-19-2012, 02:59 AM
more biased junk from a noob

Suicide Bobb
10-19-2012, 03:42 AM
Alright man, I don't post here often, but this merits me doing so.

You have some sort of incentive to do what you are doing, beyond just "I like the product". Maybe if you didn't spend your time hyperlink-ing every single time you say MurderMat I might have believed you. No, you still went too far. The graphs are over the top and not something that someone who just likes a product would make. Yet still, you go so far as to make it obvious that the top layer is vinyl, giving the bullshit claim that your girlfriend knows that. On top of all of this, you constantly make every word bold that has to do with some adjective or quantitative figure describing MM.

Call me a psychic, but I can already see you denying that you are either paid, or have some close relation to the owner and are trying to act like you aren't. I know that the owner knows very well what you were going to post here, BEFORE you posted it. I don't give a **** what stupid excuse you use to back that up. I hate shady business practices like this. Making a false customer review (or overly emphasized one) is just as bad as, say, a forum admin adding bots to make the member count look larger than it is. I don't like it, and for that reason, I no longer support the product.

CAT MAN
10-19-2012, 03:43 AM
Alright man, I don't post here often, but this merits me doing so.

You have some sort of incentive to do what you are doing, beyond just "I like the product". Maybe if you didn't spend your time hyperlink-ing every single time you say MurderMat I might have believed you. No, you still went too far. The graphs are over the top and not something that someone who just likes a product would make. Yet still, you go so far as to make it obvious that the top layer is vinyl, giving the bullshit claim that your girlfriend knows that. On top of all of this, you constantly make every word bold that has to do with some adjective or quantitative figure describing MM.

Call me a psychic, but I can already see you denying that you are either paid, or have some close relation to the owner and are trying to act like you aren't. I know that the owner knows very well what you were going to post here, BEFORE you posted it. I don't give a **** what stupid excuse you use to back that up. I hate shady business practices like this. Making a false customer review (or overly emphasized one) is just as bad as, say, a forum admin adding bots to make the member count look larger than it is. I don't like it, and for that reason, I no longer support the product.
he is a noob that got free stuff and never used anything to know......dont blame him

adas
10-19-2012, 03:54 AM
Guys..... just for the record, besides jaguar being a winner of our giveaway...
He was in no shape or form paid nor affiliated.
His review has been more then your average person would care to do.
Any hyperlinks that show up are done by google for our product, by ca.com.....
....not by the posters themselves.
There are more then a dozens on the site that automatically do

av83
10-19-2012, 04:05 AM
Guys..... just for the record, besides jaguar being a winner of our giveaway...
He was in no shape or form paid nor affiliated.
His review has been more then your average person would care to do.
Any hyperlinks that show up are done by google for our product, by ca.com.....
....not by the posters themselves.
There are more then a dozens on the site that automatically do

lol, you should have read some of his past posts before choosing him....

CAT MAN
10-19-2012, 04:29 AM
lol, you should have read some of his past posts before choosing him....

agreed research goes a long way

Why So Cereal?
10-19-2012, 10:23 AM
I learn more and more on this site everyday....

martiandancer31
10-19-2012, 01:20 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28630878.jpg

09civic
10-19-2012, 01:29 PM
Fial attempt at OP trying to be somewhat intelligent.


Nothing to see here.

cdc351jeferson
10-19-2012, 01:36 PM
gotta expect it tho think he had certain obligations for getting free shizz from manufacturer not sure this was included in the deal or not lol

Jaguar
10-19-2012, 02:03 PM
whitedragon551 RE: What you posted earlier in the MM GIVEAWAY thread.


You stupid fucks are why this forum is declining. You cant just let a vendor give away some product for free. If I see one more word out of anyones mouth about who won and why I will ban you.

RE: Recent Comments
How much more obvious can you be that you have no personal life outside car-audio.com but to either start the next argument that has nothing to do with the topic, or
create the next topic to vent the personal hate you have for yourselves and unconsciously hang on to the sad hope you can re-direct it towards other innocent individuals.
I mean it's the same people every-time. When I read these types of things about me I laugh because I know better. I know I have girlfriend(s) who do whatever I want and pleased with the way my personal life, personal growth is headed.

Personal attacks are way off topic and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves for not only attacking me and a NEW company, but for your own dull consistencies and
inability to escape from the very quicksand some of your lives are sinking. Hello, I'm new to car-audio.com, I'm just as excited as anyone honest would to talk about it. Have
I made mistakes, in a past? Of course, what person who is new to car-audio doesn't, but I've also openly admitted and apologized, this isn't about me, it's about how much
you hate your lives. First it was my avatar, then it was my bold text, then it was the way I was, you guys just aren't happy with your lives admit it, move on and let peace rain.

martiandancer31
10-19-2012, 02:06 PM
How much more obvious can you be that you have no personal life outside car-audio.com but to either start the next argument that has nothing to do with the topic, or
create the next topic to vent the personal hate you have for yourselves and unconsciously hang on to the sad hope you can re-direct it towards other innocent individuals.
I mean it's the same people every-time.:) When I read these types of things about me I laugh because I know better. I know I have girlfriend(s) who do whatever I want an
pleased with the way my personal life, personal growth is headed. Personal attacks are way off topic and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves for not only attacking
me and a NEW company, but for your own dull consistencies and inability to escape from the very quicksand some of your lives are sinking. Hello, I'm new to car-audio.com,
I'm just as excited as anyone honest would to talk about it. Have I made mistakes, in a past? Of course, what person who is new to car-audio doesn't, but I've also openly
admitted and apologized, this isn't about me, it's about how much you hate your lives. First it was my avatar, then it was my bold text, then it was the way I was, you guys
just aren't happy with your lives admit it, move on and let peace rain.

whitedragon551 RE:

he's not even attacking you. He's telling the rest of the community to get off your nuts this one time and appreciate the fact that murder mat gave away some free product

Why So Cereal?
10-19-2012, 02:08 PM
:facepalm:

Jaguar
10-19-2012, 02:11 PM
whitedragon551 RE: What you posted earlier in the MM GIVEAWAY thread.


You stupid fucks are why this forum is declining. You cant just let a vendor give away some product for free. If I see one more word out of anyones mouth about who won and why I will ban you.

RE: Recent Comments
How much more obvious can you be that you have no personal life outside car-audio.com but to either start the next argument that has nothing to do with the topic, or
create the next topic to vent the personal hate you have for yourselves and unconsciously hang on to the sad hope you can re-direct it towards other innocent individuals.
I mean it's the same people every-time. When I read these types of things about me I laugh because I know better. I know I have girlfriend(s) who do whatever I want and pleased with the way my personal life, personal growth is headed.

Personal attacks are way off topic and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves for not only attacking me and a NEW company, but for your own dull consistencies and
inability to escape from the very quicksand some of your lives are sinking. Hello, I'm new to car-audio.com, I'm just as excited as anyone honest would to talk about it. Have
I made mistakes, in a past? Of course, what person who is new to car-audio doesn't, but I've also openly admitted and apologized, this isn't about me, it's about how much
you hate your lives. First it was my avatar, then it was my bold text, then it was the way I was, you guys just aren't happy with your lives admit it, move on and let peace reign.

Jerhemy
10-19-2012, 02:42 PM
whitedragon551 RE: What you posted earlier in the MM GIVEAWAY thread.



RE: Recent Comments
How much more obvious can you be that you have no personal life outside car-audio.com but to either start the next argument that has nothing to do with the topic, or
create the next topic to vent the personal hate you have for yourselves and unconsciously hang on to the sad hope you can re-direct it towards other innocent individuals.
I mean it's the same people every-time. When I read these types of things about me I laugh because I know better. I know I have girlfriend(s) who do whatever I want and pleased with the way my personal life, personal growth is headed.

Personal attacks are way off topic and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves for not only attacking me and a NEW company, but for your own dull consistencies and
inability to escape from the very quicksand some of your lives are sinking. Hello, I'm new to car-audio.com, I'm just as excited as anyone honest would to talk about it. Have
I made mistakes, in a past? Of course, what person who is new to car-audio doesn't, but I've also openly admitted and apologized, this isn't about me, it's about how much
you hate your lives. First it was my avatar, then it was my bold text, then it was the way I was, you guys just aren't happy with your lives admit it, move on and let peace reign.

All I see is that you got free product, got a boner for it cause you had nothing to compare it too, and wrote an uninformative and biased review of a new product.

You talk like you are a **** god-king that knows everything about car audio. You try and use phrases and words that you think make you sound smart or intelligent, but in reality they just make you sound like a serious ******* trying to sound smart.

Your graph was indeed pretty, in a 5th grade MS Word class sort of way... But you have provided nothing usefull or informative.

I would love to see a deadener review done correctly with all these different samples and brands of deadener but that would take a great deal of work and time to generate true, accurate real world test results.

Also, Jaguar, if you are going to post biblical passages in your sig... try not to use the Lords name in vein, makes you look like a massive hypocrite.





oh, and SDS ftw.

Jaguar
10-19-2012, 03:14 PM
Congratulations. If it makes you feel better to obsess about me, hey do it 24/7. I will go back to my normal life and be happy trust me. :)
Possibly even happier than before. By the way, this guy Jerhemy is NOTHING new. Stalks my every post, even the old ones, SAD as it gets.

kushy_dreams
10-19-2012, 03:17 PM
All I see is that you got free product, got a boner for it cause you had nothing to compare it too, and wrote an uninformative and biased review of a new product.

You talk like you are a **** god-king that knows everything about car audio. You try and use phrases and words that you think make you sound smart or intelligent, but in reality they just make you sound like a serious ******* trying to sound smart.

Your graph was indeed pretty, in a 5th grade MS Word class sort of way... But you have provided nothing usefull or informative.

I would love to see a deadener review done correctly with all these different samples and brands of deadener but that would take a great deal of work and time to generate true, accurate real world test results.

Also, Jaguar, if you are going to post biblical passages in your sig... try not to use the Lords name in vein, makes you look like a massive hypocrite.

oh, and SDS ftw.

This lmao

Jerhemy
10-19-2012, 03:41 PM
Congratulations. If it makes you feel better to obsess about me, hey do it 24/7. I will go back to my normal life and be happy trust me. :)
Possibly even happier than before. By the way, this guy Jerhemy is NOTHING new. Stalks my every post, even the old ones, SAD as it gets.

lol, I don't stalk you man, but everytime I stumble apon ANOTHER one of your stupid *** threads that has nothing usefull in it, it makes me want to remind you how retarded you sound. It's always just you being a butt-hurt biotch because everyone calls you out for your incompetence when you try and sound smart and talk like you know everything.

No matter how often you admit you're wrong, you still sound like an asinine child everytime you post.

Jaguar
10-19-2012, 05:08 PM
Would you like a box of tissue to go with those tears? :) Hey look everybody, someone on car-audio.com got man handled and started crying for real!
Hopefully a moderator comes and cleans all the crap you guys started up. After all thread was supposed to be about MurderMat, not me.

av83
10-19-2012, 05:17 PM
All I see is that you got free product, got a boner for it cause you had nothing to compare it too, and wrote an uninformative and biased review of a new product.

You talk like you are a **** god-king that knows everything about car audio. You try and use phrases and words that you think make you sound smart or intelligent, but in reality they just make you sound like a serious ******* trying to sound smart.

Your graph was indeed pretty, in a 5th grade MS Word class sort of way... But you have provided nothing usefull or informative.

I would love to see a deadener review done correctly with all these different samples and brands of deadener but that would take a great deal of work and time to generate true, accurate real world test results.

Also, Jaguar, if you are going to post biblical passages in your sig... try not to use the Lords name in vein, makes you look like a massive hypocrite.

oh, and SDS ftw.

Win.

CAT MAN
10-19-2012, 09:45 PM
i bet if i sent him the 25 sq feet of AT i have left over he will poop on murder matt Lulz

quackhead
10-20-2012, 01:07 PM
Question; Why would someone looking to buy some sound deadening material choose MurderMat over another brand name such as Dynamat, FatMat,
SecondSkin, or even Audio Technix? I decided to take it upon myself apart from an upcoming personal review of the product to find out just that. Whether
your the new kid on your block or a distinguished car-audio enthusiast there are 3 main factors which come into play for both, just the same; Price, Materials used
(design), and Mils (thickness of the deadener). While I'm certain that anyone who's actually looked at the specs of MurderMat would not doubt it is capable of being
a great sound deadener, comparatively is there more to the company which differentiates itself from brand-names enough to choose it over them, the answer upon
my research was surprisingly a resounding yes in every category.



http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m72/store_age/mmvs3d.jpg


While there may be a follow up on my initial post on materials used, and perhaps even a more comprehensive look at the comparisons of price per SQ foot
(if I have time) the information in which my research yielded I thought was worth sharing had to do with Mils. I'll let the graph I made speak for itself, but
as far as price goes, I will say there were places that were selling the premium versions of the brand-names mentioned IE: Dynamat Extreme, FatMat
MegaMat, SecondSkin Damplifier Pro, and Audio Technix Pro, for nearly twice as per SQ foot of MurderMat, while none of the premium versions named
had as many mils as even the standard version of MurderMat BL. On the flip-side, the prices of the normal/standard versions of some of the brand names
mentioned were near or as expensive as the 90Mil premium MDK versions of sound deadener from MurderMat Sound Solutions.

and where does this come in?...or is it so good, it has no comparison?
Knukonceptz product detail for KNO KNOISE KOLOSSUS EDITION CAR KIT 35SQ FT (http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KNO-KOL35)

West
10-20-2012, 01:09 PM
and where does this come in?...or is it so good, it has no comparison?
Knukonceptz product detail for KNO KNOISE KOLOSSUS EDITION CAR KIT 35SQ FT (http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KNO-KOL35)

0.O
Its soo thick quack...

quackhead
10-20-2012, 01:14 PM
0.O
Its soo thick quack...

just to unbias things a bit..

West
10-20-2012, 01:17 PM
just to unbias things a bit..

I completely agree. It's a lot easier to say your CA install product is the best if you don't compare it to KNU.

keep_hope_alive
10-20-2012, 01:35 PM
remember the purpose of deadener is to provide damping. thickness is not a useful metric. you can increase thickness by injecting air into the process without increasing material, cost, or damping benefits.

you need to be able to quantify the elastomeric and viscoelastic properties of the materials in order to compare them.

the only true test of deadener uses accelerometers and thermal monitoring.

you need to capture these:

http://www.greengluecompany.com/Content/Images/thumbnail040.jpg


this is the kind of data i want to see for a deadener comparison:

http://www.greengluecompany.com/Content/Images/thumnail049.jpg

http://www.greengluecompany.com/Content/Images/thumnail050.jpg

http://www.greengluecompany.com/Content/Images/thumnail051.jpg

keep_hope_alive
10-20-2012, 01:43 PM
here is a short example of what level of reporting i would like to see:
http://www.icacommission.org/Proceedings/ICA1998Seattle/pdfs/vol_3/1585_1.pdf

until i see something like this, i ignore the "comparison" threads.

adas
10-20-2012, 02:24 PM
We've been looking to find a good way to do more of such in depth comparison testing.
Unfortunately, even if we do on our own product, without having multiple other samples and running them through the same...
the outcome won't count for much of a comparision!

Suicide Bobb
10-20-2012, 03:46 PM
remember the purpose of deadener is to provide damping. thickness is not a useful metric. you can increase thickness by injecting air into the process without increasing material, cost, or damping benefits.

you need to be able to quantify the elastomeric and viscoelastic properties of the materials in order to compare them.

the only true test of deadener uses accelerometers and thermal monitoring.

you need to capture these:

http://www.greengluecompany.com/Content/Images/thumbnail040.jpg


this is the kind of data i want to see for a deadener comparison:

http://www.greengluecompany.com/Content/Images/thumnail049.jpg

http://www.greengluecompany.com/Content/Images/thumnail050.jpg

http://www.greengluecompany.com/Content/Images/thumnail051.jpg

EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS

I bet I could get Don to test his CLD tiles with this testing method...

cthedinger
10-20-2012, 04:54 PM
We've been looking to find a good way to do more of such in depth comparison testing.
Unfortunately, even if we do on our own product, without having multiple other samples and running them through the same...
the outcome won't count for much of a comparision!

Damping Technologies, Inc. (http://www.damping.com/)

The SAE J1637 style test is the only fair way to compare deadeners. Just because one product is thicker than the other does not mean it will preform better, it truly comes down to the adhesive. The SAE J1637 cost $600 per sample to have it tested. I had them test 10+ samples (my own and several other brands) for me in the past, IMO it is the only real way to compare deadeners. It compares how they preform against each other acoustically.

Suicide Bobb
10-20-2012, 04:54 PM
Damping Technologies, Inc. (http://www.damping.com/)

The SAE J1637 style test is the only fair way to compare deadeners. Just because one product is thicker than the other does not mean it will preform better, it truly comes down to the adhesive. The SAE J1637 cost $600 per sample to have it tested. I had them test 10+ samples (my own and several other brands) for me in the past, IMO it is the only real way to compare deadeners. It compares how they preform against each other acoustically.

Happen to have a link to said comparison test? I'm intrigued

cthedinger
10-20-2012, 04:59 PM
Happen to have a link to said comparison test? I'm intrigued

Send me an email [email protected] or check the AT section there is two threads with the SAE J1637 style tests comparing a few companies (please note I have not posted results for every sample I have tested but have posted the test results for SS, Dynamat, and AT).

I do not want to clutter this thread.

adas
10-20-2012, 05:28 PM
We know that it is not all about the thickness of the CLD that determines its effectiveness in actual dampening... as you know there are also 2 parts to deadening, controlling resonance of the panel AND mass loading, in which the thicker butyl layer weighing more is almost always going to be more effective.

Especially in the Car audio arena the idea is to stop/prevent flex as much as possible as well as just control resonance.

We've heard of Damping Technologies, and the test were already planning to be done. Thanks for the insight

keep_hope_alive
10-20-2012, 08:38 PM
Send me an email [email protected] or check the AT section there is two threads with the SAE J1637 style tests comparing a few companies (please note I have not posted results for every sample I have tested but have posted the test results for SS, Dynamat, and AT).

I do not want to clutter this thread.

email sent.

Jaguar
10-21-2012, 01:17 AM
Damping Technologies, Inc. (http://www.damping.com/)
The SAE J1637 style test is the only fair way to compare deadeners. Just because one product is thicker than the other does not mean it will preform better, it truly comes down to the adhesive. The SAE J1637 cost $600 per sample to have it tested. I had them test 10+ samples (my own and several other brands) for me in the past, IMO it is the only real way to compare deadeners. It compares how they preform against each other acoustically.

Happen to have a link to said comparison test? I'm intrigued

This is what he's talking about. These tests. I actually pulled some of the numbers I used in my graphs from that sheet, nobody else had them.
http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/Deadenerthickness.jpg


I'm pleased everyone is back on topic, it's a perfect opportunity for a discussion about it and other products. It was never my intention to make
other sound deadeners look bad, nor make MurderMat look "the best". I've stated this 3 times previously. I pulled the specifications in the graphs
off of each co respective websites and compared what Dynamat, FatMat, SecondSkin and Audio Technix wrote, that's it. What you seen in the
graph's was never a matter of personal opinion. I can't help it if the numbers specified by the companies referring to their ''premium versions'',
Dynamat Extreme, FatMat MegaMat, SecondSkin Pro, and Audio Technix Pro were all "surpassed" by MurderMat's standard 87 mil BL version.
My personal experience with MurderMat is that it's a great product, but is it the best? Who know's, I'll leave that to you guys to figure out.



http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m72/store_age/mmclay.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m72/store_age/mmvs3d.jpg



JAG

cthedinger
10-21-2012, 01:20 AM
This is what he's talking about. These tests. I actually pulled some of the numbers I used in my graphs from that sheet, nobody else had them.




Actually that is not what I was referring too. Give me a few minutes and I will post what I was talking about.

cthedinger
10-21-2012, 01:28 AM
http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/Firsttest.png

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/Secondtest.png

cthedinger
10-21-2012, 01:32 AM
http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/SecondSkinDamp-ModalLossFactor.gif

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/SecondSkinDamp-200HzInterpolation-1.gif

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/Dynamat-ModalLossFactor.gif

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/Dynamat-200HzInterpolation.gif

---------- Post added at 11:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 PM ----------

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/AudioTechnix02-09-12-ModalResonanceFrequency-SAEJ1637BaseBeam.jpg

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/AudioTechnix02-09-12-CompositeLossFactor-SAEJ1637BaseBeam.jpg

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/AudioTechnix02-09-12-200HzInterpolation-SAEJ1637BaseBeam.jpg

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/AudioTechnix-ModalLossFactor.gif

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/AudioTechnix-200HzInterpolation-1.gif

Jaguar
10-21-2012, 02:37 AM
Actually that is not what I was referring too. Give me a few minutes and I will post what I was talking about.
Ah. I thought it was, I pulled that off of one of your posts here (http://www.caraudio.com/forums/audio-technix/516676-huge-deadener-comparison.html#post7652651). So are we to understand the comparison chart you made I posted does not reflect
the testing you paid for of those products then? Or was what you just posted here additional. Thanks.

cthedinger
10-21-2012, 03:51 AM
Ah. I thought it was, I pulled that off of one of your posts here (http://www.caraudio.com/forums/audio-technix/516676-huge-deadener-comparison.html#post7652651). So are we to understand the comparison chart you made I posted does not reflect
the testing you paid for of those products then? Or was what you just posted here additional. Thanks.

Correct. The charts I posted above are the tests I was referring to that cost $600 per sample to have done. The test is called SAE J1637. Basically tells you how a deadening product preforms acoustic wise. I did not post all the of the results for all the samples I have had tested, just posted a few to give you (and others) an idea of what I was referring too.

The chart you posted from the AT section is similar to yours. It is a chart showing what manufactures said the thickness of there products were. Then I went out and purchased every product on the chart. Next I measured each sample with a micro-meter (which you can get at a hardware store for $25-50) to see if each sample was as thick as the manufacture claimed.

adas
10-21-2012, 11:13 AM
http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/Firsttest.png

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/Secondtest.png

These tests were only done with the 60 Mil.. Correct?

cthedinger
10-21-2012, 12:40 PM
These tests were only done with the 60 Mil.. Correct?

Yes Audio Technix on the graphs above represent the 2 old versions of the 60 mil. I no longer sell those 2 versions.

Second Skin in the graph is there current version of Damplifier and the Dyanamt in the graph is the current version of Dynamat Extreme.

TDot
10-22-2012, 11:42 PM
Forgive my noob question, but are the higher numbers or the lower numbers better with the temp/hz chart?

Jaguar
10-24-2012, 04:52 AM
and where does this come in?...or is it so good, it has no comparison?
Knukonceptz product detail for KNO KNOISE KOLOSSUS EDITION CAR KIT 35SQ FT (http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KNO-KOL35)

Well, just my personal opinion on this the Kno Knoise Kolosus 100mil edition of sound deadener sounds good, and from what I hear I hope to have an opportunity to try
SDS and Audio Technix (no I did not enter the contest), but I feel MurderMat has the edge at least in perspective of design over Kno Knoise. Kno matter how I look at it, my personal opinion, is it looks generic and though yes it's true most sound deadener after installs are typically hidden from view completely I still think Knu could have put more time into the design element of the product. When I take into account pricing, Kno Knoise also seems to be a lot more pricey, at least compared to the affordability of some their other products which I have bought. Mostly wire. As for wire, I feel the KnuKonceptz Karma Twisted OFC wire and KnuKonceptz Twisted Pair Smoke RCA'S are top dog.
http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server5400/bgaq3lv/products/30/images/153/IMG_8144__95538.1348289503.500.500.JPG__http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m72/store_age/knoknoise_.jpg

Suicide Bobb
10-24-2012, 06:54 AM
When I take into account pricing, Kno Knoise also seems to be a lot more pricey, at least compared to the affordability of some their other products which I have bought. Mostly wire. As for wire, I feel the KnuKonceptz Karma Twisted OFC wire and KnuKonceptz Twisted Pair Smoke RCA'S are top dog.

More expensive?

40sqft. of MurderMat 80mil: $139
28sqft. + 14sqft. of Knu Knoise 80 mil: $138
Price per sqft. of MurderMat 80mil: $3.475
Price per sqft. of Knu Knoise 80 mil: $3.286

120sqft. of MuderMat 80mil: $380
105sqft. + 14sqft. of Knu Knoise 80mil: $347
Price per sqft. of MuderMat 80mil: $3.167
Price per sqft. of Knu Knoise 80mil: $2.916

In both regards, the Knu Knoise 80mil is about $0.20 cheaper per sqft. It has the same exact specs as the MurderMat (thickness of constraining dampener and butyl, weight/sqft.), but a greater max temperature range (10 degrees colder and 30 degrees hotter).

40sqft. of MurderMat 90mil: $172
35sqft. of Knu Knoise 100 mil: $140
Price per sqft. of MurderMat 90mil: $4.3
Price per sqft. of Knu Knoise 100 mil: $4

120sqft. of MuderMat 90mil: $515
105sqft. + 14sqft. of Knu Knoise 100mil: $420
Price per sqft. of MuderMat 90mil: $4.292
Price per sqft. of Knu Knoise 100mil: $3.529

For smaller quantities, the Knu Knoise is $0.30 cheaper per sqft. than Murdermat, and over $0.70 cheaper per sqft. for larger quantities! It also has 10 more mils of butyl which I'm assuming is what accounts for the increased weight of 0.18lbs. Don't forget the same max operating temperature advantage as with the 80mil versions!

Not really sure where you are getting at with the Knu Knoise being more pricey than the MurderMat?

adas
10-24-2012, 11:22 AM
More expensive?

40sqft. of MurderMat 80mil: $139
28sqft. + 14sqft. of Knu Knoise 80 mil: $138
Price per sqft. of MurderMat 80mil: $3.475
Price per sqft. of Knu Knoise 80 mil: $3.286

120sqft. of MuderMat 80mil: $380
105sqft. + 14sqft. of Knu Knoise 80mil: $347
Price per sqft. of MuderMat 80mil: $3.167
Price per sqft. of Knu Knoise 80mil: $2.916

In both regards, the Knu Knoise 80mil is about $0.20 cheaper per sqft. It has the same exact specs as the MurderMat (thickness of constraining dampener and butyl, weight/sqft.), but a greater max temperature range (10 degrees colder and 30 degrees hotter).

40sqft. of MurderMat 90mil: $172
35sqft. of Knu Knoise 100 mil: $140
Price per sqft. of MurderMat 90mil: $4.3
Price per sqft. of Knu Knoise 100 mil: $4

120sqft. of MuderMat 90mil: $515
105sqft. + 14sqft. of Knu Knoise 100mil: $420
Price per sqft. of MuderMat 90mil: $4.292
Price per sqft. of Knu Knoise 100mil: $3.529

For smaller quantities, the Knu Knoise is $0.30 cheaper per sqft. than Murdermat, and over $0.70 cheaper per sqft. for larger quantities! It also has 10 more mils of butyl which I'm assuming is what accounts for the increased weight of 0.18lbs. Don't forget the same max operating temperature advantage as with the 80mil versions!

Not really sure where you are getting at with the Knu Knoise being more pricey than the MurderMat?

Well to clear a couple things up.
Termpature ratings for us were done conservatively.
We promise our deadener will meet or exceeds Knu and any other comparable Butyl products temperature rating.
With the nature of the product, any quality butyls that are used for dampening and CLD applications are all going to fail in the same range (350-400*) as most rubbers have a melting point of 350*
Now, say the deadener is placed vertically, or upside down. It will begin to fail at less then 350*, because its actually starting to melt.
If any part of your vehicle, short of the exhuast system reaches 300*+, you will be having much bigger problems :uhoh:

Now for cost, comparing products with thickness and specs is fair.
But what is not a fair comparison is that KnoNoise is a basic looking CLD.
It does not have any character to set it apart from any other silver, 80 Mil deadener out there
Our design and black anodized finish costs more to manufacture.
A valid point some make is it is a CLD, it goes under panels and is not seen anyway.
While this is true a lot of the time, there are still places you'll still see silver in larger installations.
You won't with it being black, everything stays hidden.

Jaguar
10-24-2012, 12:55 PM
Not really sure where you are getting at with the Knu Knoise being more pricey than the MurderMat?
That's what you wrote, that's not what I wrote. I wrote.


When I take into account pricing, Kno Knoise also seems to be a lot more pricey, at least compared to the affordability of some their other products which I have bought. Mostly wire. As for wire, I feel the KnuKonceptz Karma Twisted OFC wire and KnuKonceptz Twisted Pair Smoke RCA'S are top dog.

http://cdn1.caraudio.com/images/icons/icon5.png

Suicide Bobb
10-24-2012, 04:18 PM
That's what you wrote, that's not what I wrote. I wrote.



http://cdn1.caraudio.com/images/icons/icon5.png

How does that even make any sense? Knu Knoise gives you more for less money than ANY other comparable deadener, and this doesn't compare to the affordability of some of its other products?

Jaguar
10-24-2012, 07:33 PM
How does that even make any sense? Knu Knoise gives you more for less money than ANY other comparable deadener, and this doesn't compare to the affordability of some of its other products?
Suicide Bobb If you like Kno Knoise that much go buy some. I won't, but my decision is not soley based on personal preference. I feel over-all I'm getting more out of MurderMat in several different respects, not even just one. Nobody here is trying to argue there are slight price differentials but you. Just between me and you, and Im trying to be completely honest my friend, if Knukoncepts and MurderMat both offered me 20-30 square feet of free deadener and I could only chose one, I would chose MurderMat without thinking twice.

Number 1: Your not going to see Knukoncepts give anything free to anyone. Number 2: The product looks generic as hell, who would but that in there car, even if it's completely hidden I'd still wake up at night knowing it's there. Number 3: I prefer the design and materials used in MurderMat for reasons of which I wrote in my review. Number 4: 0.20 vs 0.30 cent etc. ''slight price differentials" are not a determining factor for me, I would rather pay for the quality, materials, and design that went into MurderMat. Number 5: 100mil Kno Knoise, honestly, I rather have some 60-80 mill Audio Technix if it came down between the two. Number 6: I'm not trying to put down Knukoncepts, nor trying to make MM "seem" better. If you don't like MurderMat I could care less, don't buy it. Additionally if you prefer another product, go for it whatever you feel is best for you. Number 7: As far a the affordability of Knu's other products in comparison to it's deadener, namely wire which was the only point I made which
concerned pricing. MurderMat vs. Kno Knoise pricing is not something I ever really brought up. That comment was in direct reference to Knukoncepts other products.
All I can say is I remember buying a lot of good wire for an incredible price. Why can't they make Kno Knoise as affordable.

av83
10-24-2012, 07:52 PM
Suicide Bobb If you like Kno Knoise that much go buy some. I don't, but my decision is not soley based on personal preference. I feel over-all I'm getting more out of MurderMat in several different respects, not even just one. Nobody here is trying to argue there are slight price differentials but you. Just between me and you, and Im trying to be completely honest my friend, if Knukoncepts and MurderMat both offered me 20-30 square feet of free deadener and I could only chose one, I would chose MurderMat without thinking twice.

Number 1: Your not going to see Knukoncepts give anything free to anyone. Number 2: The product looks generic as hell, who would but that in there car, even if it's completely hidden I'd still wake up at night knowing it's there. Number 3: I prefer the design and materials used in MurderMat for reasons of which I wrote in my review. Number 4: 0.20 vs 0.30 cent etc. ''slight price differentials" are not a determining factor for me, I would rather pay for the quality, materials, and design that went into MurderMat, that goes for any other product mentioned. Number 5: 100mil Kno Knoise, honestly, I rather have some 60-80 mill Audio Technix if it came down between the two. Number 6: I'm not trying to put down Knukoncepts, nor trying to make MM seem better, if you don't like MurderMat I could care less, don't buy it. Additionally if you prefer another product, go for it whatever you feel is best for you. Number 7: As far a the affordability of Knu's other products in comparison to it's deadener, namely wire which was the only point I made concerning pricing, not MurderMat vs Kno Knoise, all I can say is I remember buying a lot of good wire for a great price, why can't they make Kno Knoise as affordable.

...

CAT MAN
10-24-2012, 07:53 PM
Suicide Bobb If you like Kno Knoise that much go buy some. I won't, but my decision is not soley based on personal preference. I feel over-all I'm getting more out of MurderMat in several different respects, not even just one. Nobody here is trying to argue there are slight price differentials but you. Just between me and you, and Im trying to be completely honest my friend, if Knukoncepts and MurderMat both offered me 20-30 square feet of free deadener and I could only chose one, I would chose MurderMat without thinking twice.

Number 1: Your not going to see Knukoncepts give anything free to anyone. Number 2: The product looks generic as hell, who would but that in there car, even if it's completely hidden I'd still wake up at night knowing it's there. Number 3: I prefer the design and materials used in MurderMat for reasons of which I wrote in my review. Number 4: 0.20 vs 0.30 cent etc. ''slight price differentials" are not a determining factor for me, I would rather pay for the quality, materials, and design that went into MurderMat, that goes for any other product mentioned. Number 5: 100mil Kno Knoise, honestly, I rather have some 60-80 mill Audio Technix if it came down between the two. Number 6: I'm not trying to put down Knukoncepts, nor trying to make MM seem better, if you don't like MurderMat I could care less, don't buy it. Additionally if you prefer another product, go for it whatever you feel is best for you. Number 7: As far a the affordability of Knu's other products in comparison to it's deadener, namely wire which was the only point I made concerning pricing, not MurderMat vs Kno Knoise, all I can say is I remember buying a lot of good wire for a great price from Knukoncepts. Why can't they make Kno Knoise as affordable.
lol lol




































hahahaha































lmao
































bahahahahahaha









































































rofl

slim2fattycake
10-24-2012, 07:56 PM
Suicide Bobb If you like Kno Knoise that much go buy some. I won't, but my decision is not soley based on personal preference. I feel over-all I'm getting more out of MurderMat in several different respects, not even just one. Nobody here is trying to argue there are slight price differentials but you. Just between me and you, and Im trying to be completely honest my friend, if Knukoncepts and MurderMat both offered me 20-30 square feet of free deadener and I could only chose one, I would chose MurderMat without thinking twice.

Number 1: Your not going to see Knukoncepts give anything free to anyone. Number 2: The product looks generic as hell, who would but that in there car, even if it's completely hidden I'd still wake up at night knowing it's there. Number 3: I prefer the design and materials used in MurderMat for reasons of which I wrote in my review. Number 4: 0.20 vs 0.30 cent etc. ''slight price differentials" are not a determining factor for me, I would rather pay for the quality, materials, and design that went into MurderMat. Number 5: 100mil Kno Knoise, honestly, I rather have some 60-80 mill Audio Technix if it came down between the two. Number 6: I'm not trying to put down Knukoncepts, nor trying to make MM "seem" better. If you don't like MurderMat I could care less, don't buy it. Additionally if you prefer another product, go for it whatever you feel is best for you. Number 7: As far a the affordability of Knu's other products in comparison to it's deadener, namely wire which was the only point I made concerning pricing, not MurderMat vs Kno Knoise. All I can say is I remember buying a lot of good wire for a great price from Knukoncepts. Why can't they make Kno Knoise as affordable.

EVERYTHING you just based your "opinion" on was preference. Seriously, you are retarded. lol

CAT MAN
10-24-2012, 07:57 PM
EVERYTHING you just based your "opinion" on was preference. Seriously, you are retarded. lol

i think he knows this by now

av83
10-24-2012, 08:08 PM
CAT MAN ; Suicide Bobb ; ...careful, guys. I was given an ”infraction” by WD for insulting this guy.... after he had the nerve to insult pro rabbits intelligence.

Jaguar
10-24-2012, 08:27 PM
Personal attacks have nothing to do with this thread or the current discussion. Your guys issues are with yourselves, not me, and you 3-4 guys derail every thread
I comment on and have become obsessed. You stalk my every post, even old threads, been that way for months. If any of that bothered my I would have stopped
logging in months ago. Same 3 or 4 guys every-time. If you disagree make your points and move along, don't troll on this thread we are trying to have a discussion.

Thank you.

CAT MAN
10-24-2012, 09:08 PM
nothing personal. You're an idiot.

Suicide Bobb
10-25-2012, 07:18 AM
@<b><a href="http://www.caraudio.com/forums/member.php?u=76749" target="_blank">Suicide Bobb</a></b> If you like Kno Knoise that much go buy some. I won't, but my decision is not soley based on personal preference. I feel over-all I'm getting more out of MurderMat in several different respects, not even just one. Nobody here is trying to argue there are slight price differentials but you. Just between me and you, and Im trying to be completely honest my friend, if Knukoncepts and MurderMat both offered me 20-30 square feet of free deadener and I could only chose one, I would chose MurderMat without thinking twice.

Number 1: Your not going to see Knukoncepts give anything free to anyone. Number 2: The product looks generic as hell, who would but that in there car, even if it's completely hidden I'd still wake up at night knowing it's there. Number 3: I prefer the design and materials used in MurderMat for reasons of which I wrote in my review. Number 4: 0.20 vs 0.30 cent etc. ''slight price differentials" are not a determining factor for me, I would rather pay for the quality, materials, and design that went into MurderMat. Number 5: 100mil Kno Knoise, honestly, I rather have some 60-80 mill Audio Technix if it came down between the two. Number 6: I'm not trying to put down Knukoncepts, nor trying to make MM "seem" better. If you don't like MurderMat I could care less, don't buy it. Additionally if you prefer another product, go for it whatever you feel is best for you. Number 7: As far a the affordability of Knu's other products in comparison to it's deadener, namely wire which was the only point I made which
concerned pricing. MurderMat vs. Kno Knoise pricing is not something I ever really brought up. That comment was in direct reference to Knukoncepts other products.
All I can say is I remember buying a lot of good wire for an incredible price. Why can't they make Kno Knoise as affordable.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI0RoJz7Tno

Why So Cereal?
10-25-2012, 09:08 AM
:facepalm:

OmegaBunny
10-25-2012, 11:37 AM
I remember when aesthetics played a role in my decision making process as it kept me from buying Image Dynamics for a long time. I thought "gee, these look cheap with their non-flashy logo". If you choose one product over another because it doesn't look as ****** as another then there is no helping you. If aesthetics is what you after then stick with flame baskets and flashy deadener that you will never see once its installed.

pro-rabbit
10-25-2012, 12:00 PM
I remember when aesthetics played a role in my decision making process as it kept me from buying Image Dynamics for a long time. I thought "gee, these look cheap with their non-flashy logo". If you choose one product over another because it doesn't look as ****** as another then there is no helping you. If aesthetics is what you after then stick with flame baskets and flashy deadener that you will never see once its installed.

This is very true. We all went through that stage before, most of you are still in that stage with drivers. If it don't have a "huge" motor then you don't want it lol.


As for Jaguar; this is not the dome so lets try and not dump on a vendor section because you do not like someone or their views.

martiandancer31
10-25-2012, 01:10 PM
Suicide Bobb If you like Kno Knoise that much go buy some. I won't, but my decision is not soley based on personal preference. I feel over-all I'm getting more out of MurderMat in several different respects, not even just one. Nobody here is trying to argue there are slight price differentials but you. Just between me and you, and Im trying to be completely honest my friend, if Knukoncepts and MurderMat both offered me 20-30 square feet of free deadener and I could only chose one, I would chose MurderMat without thinking twice.

Number 1: Your not going to see Knukoncepts give anything free to anyone. Number 2: The product looks generic as hell, who would but that in there car, even if it's completely hidden I'd still wake up at night knowing it's there. Number 3: I prefer the design and materials used in MurderMat for reasons of which I wrote in my review. Number 4: 0.20 vs 0.30 cent etc. ''slight price differentials" are not a determining factor for me, I would rather pay for the quality, materials, and design that went into MurderMat. Number 5: 100mil Kno Knoise, honestly, I rather have some 60-80 mill Audio Technix if it came down between the two. Number 6: I'm not trying to put down Knukoncepts, nor trying to make MM "seem" better. If you don't like MurderMat I could care less, don't buy it. Additionally if you prefer another product, go for it whatever you feel is best for you. Number 7: As far a the affordability of Knu's other products in comparison to it's deadener, namely wire which was the only point I made which
concerned pricing. MurderMat vs. Kno Knoise pricing is not something I ever really brought up. That comment was in direct reference to Knukoncepts other products.
All I can say is I remember buying a lot of good wire for an incredible price. Why can't they make Kno Knoise as affordable.


http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28630878.jpg

OmegaBunny
10-25-2012, 01:35 PM
I like big motor, large coil woofers so guilty as charged :)

My next build though us going to be two smaller sq/SQL oriented 10s or 12s

Suicide Bobb
10-25-2012, 03:47 PM
Stick with Audiobahn bruh, they look cool and all and everything they make is big

Suicide Bobb
10-25-2012, 03:57 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/421/363/0b0.jpg

TheUnderFighter
10-25-2012, 04:19 PM
I want this to be clear to anyone else that comes into this thread. Nobody in here is hating on MurderMat deadener. We all have our preferences, but given the opportunity to free deadener, none of us would mind some MurderMat. It's a good product. What is being hated on is Jaguar's entirely subjective and biased statements, and how he gives the edge to one product over the other based purely on aesthetics.
MurderMat, you guys are looking good :) I'm sorry someone else couldn't have won this contest so there'd be less controversy.

Suicide Bobb
10-25-2012, 04:27 PM
I want this to be clear to anyone else that comes into this thread. Nobody in here is hating on MurderMat deadener. We all have our preferences, but given the opportunity to free deadener, none of us would mind some MurderMat. It's a good product. What is being hated on is Jaguar's entirely subjective and biased statements, and how he gives the edge to one product over the other based purely on aesthetics.
MurderMat, you guys are looking good :) I'm sorry someone else couldn't have won this contest so there'd be less controversy.

This ^^^ Sorry I didn't state that earlier. Nothing against MurderMat, just picking apart Jaguar for being an asshat

OmegaBunny
10-25-2012, 04:55 PM
I've never used MurderMat so I can't make a comparison but I saw that bit about it looks nicer and how he couldn't sleep knowing there is a plain Jane deadener on his doors and had to chime in!

adas if you want to send me 100 feet or so I would gladly give it a try :)

Imtjnotu
10-25-2012, 05:37 PM
Jaguar claims to have facts as to why murder mat is better... Yet only gives opinion


http://synapticnulship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Jackie-Chan-WTF-meme-face-70958233396.jpeg

TDot
10-25-2012, 08:24 PM
If the flaming has subsided, does anyone think that they can actually provide help to people looking for it since my question was totally skipped over for the sake of snipes?...or have I mistaken this forum for a helpful place when in actuality it is a girls high school locker room?

Forgive my noob question, but are the higher numbers or the lower numbers better with regards to the temp/hz chart?

TheUnderFighter
10-26-2012, 11:01 PM
If the flaming has subsided, does anyone think that they can actually provide help to people looking for it since my question was totally skipped over for the sake of snipes?...or have I mistaken this forum for a helpful place when in actuality it is a girls high school locker room?

Forgive my noob question, but are the higher numbers or the lower numbers better with regards to the temp/hz chart?

I'm gonna try to answer that. Higher/wider temperature range is best, because it'll work effectively in the very cold and the very warm, because as ambient temperature fluctuates, you still want your deadener and it's adhesive to continue to work :)
And lower frequency readings are ideal. As the goal with using deadener, is to lower the resonant frequency of the panel, so that you can not hear it resonate. So, if it's resonating below 20hz, SUCCESS :D

Keep in mind, this is my crude understanding of it, and is to be taken with a grain of salt.



Also, Jaguar is a ***** for turning off his dislikes cus he can't take the heat, but then still having the audacity for disliking other people's honest posts.

grvv
11-17-2012, 07:53 PM
The way you express yourself sounds like your the moron

Mkeets
11-18-2012, 07:19 PM
http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/SecondSkinDamp-ModalLossFactor.gif

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/SecondSkinDamp-200HzInterpolation-1.gif

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/Dynamat-ModalLossFactor.gif

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/Dynamat-200HzInterpolation.gif

---------- Post added at 11:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 PM ----------

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/AudioTechnix02-09-12-ModalResonanceFrequency-SAEJ1637BaseBeam.jpg

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/AudioTechnix02-09-12-CompositeLossFactor-SAEJ1637BaseBeam.jpg

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/AudioTechnix02-09-12-200HzInterpolation-SAEJ1637BaseBeam.jpg

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/AudioTechnix-ModalLossFactor.gif

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww253/cthedinger/AudioTechnix-200HzInterpolation-1.gif

Just wondering is there a reason why you went with 200 Hz? I in no way shape or form claim to know everything when it comes to panel resonance and such but considering most don't even play their midbass above 200 Hz would the panel even resonate at that frequency?

TheUnderFighter
11-18-2012, 07:26 PM
The way you express yourself sounds like your the moron

calls someone a moron.... can't spell "you're"