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View Full Version : Some real basic Q's here



Montana
09-21-2012, 01:26 PM
So, I built a box once, turned out well. About to build a second box and need to gather more info about the numbers behind it, and what's the specs are.

So, I built a box for my two SA-12 D4s, and just built it to "company recommandations" So, it's at 4.2cubes and 35Hz.

All went well, however, my questions are (most likely extremely basic)


I've seen subwoofers that say "2cubes min, 4.5 cubes max" ect ect.

Is the 2 cubes going to give the boomyer window shaking pure air pushing hits? and the bigger box is more SQ? Or vis versa?

Same with Hz, whats the deal there?

Because I am going to build a box for my friend [just for practice and to get him out of that cruddy store bought box] and I believe he is going for that pure SPL.


Thanks for help provided. :blush:

cyn
09-21-2012, 01:30 PM
What sub/s?

naughtyca
09-21-2012, 01:31 PM
bigger more spl

Montana
09-21-2012, 01:32 PM
bigger more spl


Thanks you. What about Hz wise? does a lower Hz tend to push lower notes harder? Orr?

Montana
09-21-2012, 01:34 PM
What sub/s?

In this case I am making him a box for his two Kicker CVRs, however, that doesn't matter.

I intend to make plenty of boxes, so I was more or less asking so I can fine tune them indivuals wants.

naughtyca
09-21-2012, 01:35 PM
lower hz will hit lower notes this will depend on what sub your using like Skar vvx likes lows so i tuned box to 32hz

Montana
09-21-2012, 01:37 PM
lower hz will hit lower notes this will depend on what sub your using like Skar vvx likes lows so i tuned box to 32hz

Okay, so, 32Hz would be lower as$ viberating hits, and 35 would do better with the slightly higher mids? Orrr?

av83
09-21-2012, 01:38 PM
So, I built a box once, turned out well. About to build a second box and need to gather more info about the numbers behind it, and what's the specs are.

So, I built a box for my two SA-12 D4s, and just built it to "company recommandations" So, it's at 4.2cubes and 35Hz.

All went well, however, my questions are (most likely extremely basic)


I've seen subwoofers that say "2cubes min, 4.5 cubes max" ect ect.

Is the 2 cubes going to give the boomyer window shaking pure air pushing hits? and the bigger box is more SQ? Or vis versa?

Same with Hz, whats the deal there?

Because I am going to build a box for my friend [just for practice and to get him out of that cruddy store bought box] and I believe he is going for that pure SPL.


Thanks for help provided. :blush:

Yooz gonna need some help. I would suggest having a pro help design with the designs until you can learn more.
pro-rabbit ; Buck ; RAM_Designs ;

Any of those guys can help.

cyn
09-21-2012, 01:41 PM
Okay... You need to learn to use a box program.. Winisd / Bass Box Pro etc... one of them... Enter in all of the T/S parameters and start from there.. yeah put a Kicker 12" in a 3cube box on RMS won't last long.. SPL... smaller boxes more port.. So far from the 4 or 5 plans i've had done for me none of the boxes are grossly bigger nor smaller than req. specs. It all depends on goals etc.. The bigger the box the less power it needs to get loud..

Montana
09-21-2012, 01:45 PM
Yooz gonna need some help. I would suggest having a pro help design with the designs until you can learn more.
pro-rabbit ; Buck ; RAM_Designs ;

Any of those guys can help.

I swear anytime I ask about anything box related I get someone trying to shove a box designer down my throat, how do I learn if you just keep telling me to go to them and have them do it for me.

Montana
09-21-2012, 01:46 PM
Okay... You need to learn to use a box program.. Winisd / Bass Box Pro etc... one of them... Enter in all of the T/S parameters and start from there.. yeah put a Kicker 12" in a 3cube box on RMS won't last long.. SPL... smaller boxes more port.. So far from the 4 or 5 plans i've had done for me none of the boxes are grossly bigger nor smaller than req. specs. It all depends on goals etc.. The bigger the box the less power it needs to get loud..


Alright, alright, noted info. I'll look into those programs, so a small box big port pushing hard wattage is going to give the most rolling thunder?

av83
09-21-2012, 01:48 PM
Okay, so, 32Hz would be lower as$ viberating hits, and 35 would do better with the slightly higher mids? Orrr?

Not really. the response curve becomes steeper with higher tuning. Lower tuning and the curve flattens out. The sub and size of box also determines how well certain notes sound. Not to mention the acoustic enviroment(i.e. whether you have a hatch, truck, trunk, etc.) plays a huge role, as well. Yes, you can dig a little lower going from a mid thirties tune, to a lower thirties tune, but the biggest difference you will notice will be how the volume will sound more even. It will benefit you most if you listen to music that has a broad range and you want all low (25-60hz) frequency notes to be of as similar volume as possible.

av83
09-21-2012, 01:53 PM
I swear anytime I ask about anything box related I get someone trying to shove a box designer down my throat, how do I learn if you just keep telling me to go to them and have them do it for me.

not trying to shove a designer down your thoat... but if you are building for other people they may expect results that you do not have the ability to recreate yet. It takes YEARS to learn about enclosure design. There is much, much more involved than you think. I commend you for undertaking it though. These are guys you can LEARN from, as well as purchase from.

Montana
09-21-2012, 01:53 PM
Not really. the response curve becomes steeper with higher tuning. Lower tuning and the curve flattens out. The sub and size of box also determines how well certain notes sound. Not to mention the acoustic enviroment(i.e. whether you have a hatch, truck, trunk, etc.) plays a huge role, as well. Yes, you can dig a little lower going from a mid thirties tune, to a lower thirties tune, but the biggest difference you will notice will be how the volume will sound more even. It will benefit you most if you listen to music that has a broad range and you want all low (25-60hz) frequency notes to be of as similar volume as possible.

Should I just google and try to find some info as how to account for box location? As in trunk, hatchback ect ect, because the same box will hit LOADS differently in differnt locations as you mentioned. Also, if i just put my port/subs pushing towards my cabin, and folded the seats down, would it give the same effect as in a Sedan? I mean its one big cabin then and its bouncing around inside the cabin then not inside the trunk.

cyn
09-21-2012, 01:56 PM
Should I just google and try to find some info as how to account for box location? As in trunk, hatchback ect ect, because the same box will hit LOADS differently in differnt locations as you mentioned. Also, if i just put my port/subs pushing towards my cabin, and folded the seats down, would it give the same effect as in a Sedan? I mean its one big cabin then and its bouncing around inside the cabin then not inside the trunk.

If you want to learn that you would be better off talking with RAM_Designs ; or Moble Enclosurs ;

pro-rabbit
09-21-2012, 02:00 PM
I swear anytime I ask about anything box related I get someone trying to shove a box designer down my throat, how do I learn if you just keep telling me to go to them and have them do it for me.

Some of us work with clients like you to help them learn, not all of us though.

It all depends on what info you are looking for though as well.

Take us for example, I try to help as much as I can with clients and such. However, there is a certain level of information that we just don't offer up. Not because we want to keep it secrete but it is part of how we do our designs and is sort of proprietary. We do offer more help to locals then we do online though, but not 100%. We have some guys trying to learn our "tricks" for SPL but we have to be conservative in order to protect our information that is used on our builds and client builds.


Trial/Error is the single best test method to learn though. Do your research and play around with designs and build them to see the results.

av83
09-21-2012, 02:00 PM
Should I just google and try to find some info as how to account for box location? As in trunk, hatchback ect ect, because the same box will hit LOADS differently in differnt locations as you mentioned. Also, if i just put my port/subs pushing towards my cabin, and folded the seats down, would it give the same effect as in a Sedan? I mean its one big cabin then and its bouncing around inside the cabin then not inside the trunk.

port and sub facing rear in trunk is usually(but not always) loudest to the ears. If you want to face the port subs forward, a wall is usually needed to make it worth it.

pro-rabbit
09-21-2012, 02:01 PM
If you want to learn that you would be better off talking with RAM_Designs

This, he tends to offer more info then the rest and it is truthful information that works in this field. Not copy/paste from a text book that does not apply to how it works in a real world application.

pro-rabbit
09-21-2012, 02:04 PM
port and sub facing rear in trunk is usually(but not always) loudest to the ears. If you want to face the port subs forward, a wall is usually needed to make it worth it.

Sub/port orientation are relative to the design and goals. Most cars if you have not worked with them before require a bit of trial and error.

cyn
09-21-2012, 02:04 PM
This, he tends to offer more info then the rest and it is truthful information that works in this field. Not copy/paste from a text book that does not apply to how it works in a real world application.

Yeah.. I was going through my list and couldn't remember if it was - or _ for your name.. I know you and Ram puts things into more laymen terms so people can understand Moble Enclosures goes all out and you have to read books to figure it out.. But none the less someone will help if someone is really wanting to learn the correct way.

pro-rabbit
09-21-2012, 02:05 PM
Alright, alright, noted info. I'll look into those programs, so a small box big port pushing hard wattage is going to give the most rolling thunder?

The small box/big port is not always the answer to SPL. It just works for some applications and products but not all.

In most daily applications and spl applications, "space makes bass" as someone else would say..(sorry no names)..

pro-rabbit
09-21-2012, 02:07 PM
Yeah.. I was going through my list and couldn't remember if it was - or _ for your name.. I know you and Ram puts things into more laymen terms so people can understand Moble Enclosures goes all out and you have to read books to figure it out.. But none the less someone will help if someone is really wanting to learn the correct way.

Indeed. I like Moble, I have taken most of the same classes he has and used to suggest similar thoughts, but the down side is when I tried to apply what the text book suggested would work. It never worked correctly :crap: After trial and error over the years I have my own "private" book that I refer too haha. One day I should publish that thing lol.. It would need a lot of "cleaning up" though....looks like chicken scratch and crazy psycho kind of notes.

av83
09-21-2012, 02:08 PM
Sub/port orientation are relative to the design and goals. Most cars if you have not worked with them before require a bit of trial and error.

A good example of why OP needs reliable advice from people who know what they are doing, not a random forum user.... even if said 'random' is me.

av83
09-21-2012, 02:10 PM
After trial and error over the years I have my own "private" book that I refer too haha. One day I should publish that thing lol..

I would pay good money for that book. You should seriously consider publishing some day.

pro-rabbit
09-21-2012, 02:35 PM
A good example of why OP needs reliable advice from people who know what they are doing, not a random forum user.... even if said 'random' is me.

It's not that you're not correct, but at the same time you're wrong lol.. Hard to explain a bit really. However, to keep things basic, subs/port back work decently well in just about any trunk if you are not using such a large enclosure you are sealing them into the trunk.


I would pay good money for that book. You should seriously consider publishing some day.

LOL maybe one day...

To be honest, I am still writing my novel that I want to have published. Nothing to do with anything relative here. Just a science fiction novel.

Montana
09-21-2012, 03:52 PM
[QUOTE=pro-rabbit;8162188]. Hard to explain a bit really. However, to keep things basic, subs/port back work decently well in just about any trunk if you are not using such a large enclosure you are sealing them into the trunk.

Well, I guess I done did f*ckered up now.
I have a massive box in my trunk port back. 40 inch wide, 33 deep. 12.5 high 4.2 cubes, 35hz. Takes up my entire trunk26536253 point me in the right direction. Most SPL out of two SA-12 D4s? Smaller box? This is "company specs"

pro-rabbit
09-21-2012, 05:20 PM
What are the specs on the enclosure? That looks really big for 2 12s lol.

Montana
09-22-2012, 01:47 AM
What are the specs on the enclosure? That looks really big for 2 12s lol.


This



I have a massive box in my trunk port back. 40 inch wide, 33 deep. 12.5 high 4.2 cubes, 35hz. Takes up my entire trunk26536253 point me in the right direction. Most SPL out of two SA-12 D4s? Smaller box? This is "company specs"

Assuming the calculator I used was right, and it probably wasn't, good! Now I get to make a even better box. ;-)

My port is 6 inch across, so front panel is only 33 inch.

Moble Enclosurs
10-31-2012, 10:22 PM
Indeed. I like Moble, I have taken most of the same classes he has and used to suggest similar thoughts, but the down side is when I tried to apply what the text book suggested would work. It never worked correctly :crap: After trial and error over the years I have my own "private" book that I refer too haha. One day I should publish that thing lol.. It would need a lot of "cleaning up" though....looks like chicken scratch and crazy psycho kind of notes.

I like you too bro. :D The textbooks only go so far. Take for instance the 1940s versions of quarter-wave theory. They have been vastly improved since then. I use a lot of my own redefined figures from formulas of acoustical circuitry when dealing with driver specifications so there is a truth to a lot of the basis of audio that no one can argue. It is the fact that some theory retains its explanation and does not go further than that. This is why they are called theories. But, the best designers learn from this. I am very glad that I am not the only one. Textbooks will only get you so far, that is the point. Unfortunately, a lot of my suggestions cannot go much further than that due to the work I have put into the modifications needed for such theories to become practical. Try to tell someone that a 7th harmonic matches the rest, and if they are in the mindset that if the 1-6th and 8th match the 7th has to, then they will argue that to the death....regardless of what actual testing will show. It is based on mere lack of knowledge. I agree that it is not all about math and my initial communication in the forum was very ''textbook'', but I must say that most of my responses are not from an actual textbook. Nor can anyone really replicate my calculations. But all in all, I like the honesty.
Speaking of which, I do hope you are able to make some great success with your novel and such in the future man! Very happy for you!