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kramer_212
09-11-2012, 10:46 PM
Well its been awhile since ive done an sql build, but its time.

Vehicular-2008 Mazda6 (4 door sedan)
factory speaker locations
6x8 front door
.5 tweeter front door
6x8 rear door.

proposed equipment. want to stay under $8000 for entire build.

Head-Unit
Pioneer deh-p99rs ( 4 way active hu)
or
Pioneer deh-80prs (3 way active hu) Plus Audison Bit One Leaning toward this

Amplification
Audison Voce series amplifiers
2 or 3 AV Quattro (4 channel amps)
1 or 2 AV UNO (monoblock)

Speakers
Audison Voce series
AV 6
AV 3
AV 1
possibly JL Audio zr 8 or AV 5

Subwoofers
3-4 AV 10s
or
2-3 AV 12s

Sound Deadning
8 bulk pack (36sq feet) Stinger roadkill
150 sq feet 1/8/1/4 inch closed cell foam.
150 sq feet 1lb mass loaded vinyl
30 lbs of expanding foam
100sq feet of eggshell foam

Enclosures
all doors/enclosures sealed/properly tuned/airspace
Fiber-glassed doors (all 4)
fiber-glassed amp rack/subwoofer enclosure (extra strength)
fiber-glassed trunk sides/trunk-lid etc...

Wires
Stinger HPM 3 series
or
Monster 400 series
or
connection silver series
all oversized.

Electrical
350amp alt 250 at idle
3x stinger spp1750 batteries


Questions/input.
What I was thinking was doing 3 inch/tweeter in each a-pillar a 3 inch/tweeter for the center channel(dash) 2 6.5 inch speakers or 1 8 and 1 6.5 inch in front doors.
and a 6.5 3 and tweeter in the rear doors.

1. should i put a 6.5 and tweeters in the center or leave the 3 inchers.
2. 2 6.5s in front door or a 6.5 and an 8
3. 3 way comp in rear doors or put them in the rear deck (fiberglessed into c-pillar)
4. the bit ten seems to be a better option thoughts?
5. any other suggestions (I;m staying with the voce series) as far as speaker amount/ location im fine with taking away or adding speakers.
6. thinking active the bit ten has 8 channels 10 if you include the center and subwoofer. or should i do a passive system.


Heres a link to the Voce and Bit One
Audison Voce (http://www.audison.eu/index.php?page=productLine&id=2)
Audison bit one (http://www.audison.eu/index.php?page=productLine&id=15)

kramer_212
09-11-2012, 10:55 PM
@‎pro-rabbit;

@‎double 07;

@‎Buck;

@‎snoopdan;

@‎mylows10;

@‎RAM_Designs;

@‎Kangaroux;

whitedragon551

West

Spooney

keep_hope_alive

kramer_212
09-11-2012, 11:01 PM
I have no idea why its not mentioning every one else.

kramer_212
09-11-2012, 11:09 PM
@‎pro-rabbit;
@‎double 07;
@‎Buck;
@‎snoopdan;
@‎mylows10;
@‎RAM_Designs;
@‎Kangaroux;

mylows10
09-11-2012, 11:09 PM
sounds like a really nice ,clean system.wouldn't mind having that either .

kramer_212
09-11-2012, 11:11 PM
any idea why its not mentioning anybody else?

and do you think there will be any problems with imaging?

---------- Post added at 10:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 PM ----------


sounds like a really nice ,clean system.wouldn't mind having that either .

any idea why its not mentioning anybody else?

and do you think there will be any problems with imaging?

West
09-11-2012, 11:13 PM
I've been summoned...
Well on the deck front... if your going active I would do the p99rs (get it open box/used if you can).
If your not going active get the 80prs
Another good choice would be an older eclipse cd7200 mkii (really warm sounding even moreso than the pioneer) The pioneers will give you more detail by far though but can sound a bit digital, just fair warning.

Since you are looking at 4 channel amps... there's a 6 channel (100x4 + 300x2 @4ohms) below that I would definately buy for a new build its MASSIVE tho...
McIntosh MC4000M Car Audio Amp - $1,100.00 : Tube Mono Block Store, www.tubemonoblockstore.com (http://www.tubemonoblockstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=94)

I'd go with KNU on the wiring.

I am tring murdermat, but my knowledge of deadners is limited.

I would go active, with p99rs, espicially if you have the money. Speaker placement isn't my strong suit.

The mention isn't working because you need a (space) after the semicolon

kramer_212
09-11-2012, 11:19 PM
I've been summoned...
Well on the deck front... if your going active I would do the p99rs (get it open box/used if you can).
If your not going active get the 80prs
Another good choice would be an older eclipse cd7200 mkii (really warm sounding even moreso than the pioneer) The pioneers will give you more detail by far though but can sound a bit digital, just fair warning.

Since you are looking at 4 channel amps... there's a 6 channel (100x4 + 300x2 @4ohms) below that I would definately buy for a new build its MASSIVE tho...
McIntosh MC4000M Car Audio Amp - $1,100.00 : Tube Mono Block Store, www.tubemonoblockstore.com (http://www.tubemonoblockstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=94)

I'd go with KNU on the wiring.

I am tring murdermat, but my knowledge of deadners is limited.

I would go active, with p99rs, espicially if you have the money. Speaker placement isn't my strong suit.

The mention isn't working because you need a (space) after the semicolon

The Bit one is an 8-10 channel active processor same 32bit dsp thats why i was thinking it. i actually have a eclipse 7200 but i like my 80prs more personally even though its only 3 way active.

as far as the doors what would you do 2 6.5s or an 8 and a 6.5 and in the center channel theres room for 2 5.25s not sure.

space no work :(

West
09-11-2012, 11:30 PM
The Bit one is an 8-10 channel active processor same 32bit dsp thats why i was thinking it. i actually have a eclipse 7200 but i like my 80prs more personally even though its only 3 way active.

as far as the doors what would you do 2 6.5s or an 8 and a 6.5 and in the center channel theres room for 2 5.25s not sure.

space no work :(

Yes I think that processor would probably really help the system and eliminate the need for a p99rs the 80prs should be all you need.

It does not appear to have auto EQ (it has an auto De-EQ but I believe it normalizes the levels without measuring output from the speakers) or I would buy one in a heart beat... I really hate tuning my system currently and the p99rs's autotune is really starting to aggrovate me the more I listen to it.

2 - 6.5's

Keep hope alive will definately be able to guide you on the speakers more.

kramer_212
09-11-2012, 11:39 PM
Yes I that processor would probably really help the system and eliminate the need for a p99rs th 80prs should be all you need.

It does not appear to have auto EQ or I would buy one in a heart beat... I really hate tuning my system currently and the p99rs's autotune is really starting to aggrovate me the more I listen to it.

2 - 6.5's

Keep hope alive will definately be able to guide you on the speakers more.

alright thanks, all help is appreciated.

West
09-11-2012, 11:41 PM
Anytime, I'm happy to share what I have found.

I think most people may prefer the 80prs because it has bluetooth and thats really nice to have while driving. The p99rs doesnt have bluetooth standard.

If you go with that bit 1 I would find someone with the proper equipment to do the tuning on it.

kramer_212
09-11-2012, 11:43 PM
Anytime, I'm happy to share what I have found.

I think most people may prefer the 80prs because it has bluetooth and thats really nice to have while driving. The p99rs doesnt have bluetooth standard.

oh i didn't even know that.
i never use the bluetooth on my 80prs's mostly sd card/ipod/cds.

West
09-11-2012, 11:46 PM
oh i didn't even know that.
i never use the bluetooth on my 80prs's mostly sd card/ipod/cds.

Spec sheet says bluetooth. Did you install the mic that came with it?

kramer_212
09-11-2012, 11:47 PM
Spec sheet says bluetooth. Did you install the mic that came with it?

yeah, i guess i use the bluetooth.
just because it tells me when i get texts, and i guess i make phone calls occasionally.
works really well.

mylows10
09-11-2012, 11:48 PM
definitely the 99.the bitt one is a nice touch too.i'd do 8's 6's and some bad *** silk dome tweets .i like to run 2 sets lower in the doors[ just below dash height] personally ,it gives a nice blend of the highs with out being too harsh .might wanna look at the new zed amps too,one of my teammates is an authorized dealer for zed too.

kramer_212
09-11-2012, 11:48 PM
Spec sheet says bluetooth. Did you install the mic that came with it?

does that 99rs have an optical out?

West
09-11-2012, 11:49 PM
yeah, i guess i use the bluetooth.
just because it tells me when i get texts, and i guess i make phone calls occasionally.
works really well.

lolz
I really wish a decient company would come up with a processor that does good time alignment and auto eq.
I don't want to go with an ms8...

kramer_212
09-11-2012, 11:50 PM
definitely the 99.the bitt one is a nice touch too.i'd do 8's 6's and some bad *** silk dome tweets .i like to run 2 sets lower in the doors[ just below dash height] personally ,it gives a nice blend of the highs with out being too harsh .might wanna look at the new zed amps too,one of my teammates is an authorized dealer for zed too.

sell the shop i work at actually sells audison i can get dealer cost.

---------- Post added at 10:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 PM ----------


definitely the 99.the bitt one is a nice touch too.i'd do 8's 6's and some bad *** silk dome tweets .i like to run 2 sets lower in the doors[ just below dash height] personally ,it gives a nice blend of the highs with out being too harsh .might wanna look at the new zed amps too,one of my teammates is an authorized dealer for zed too.

what do you mean by 2 sets?

like one 8
one 6.5
and 2 tweeters in the door?

West
09-11-2012, 11:51 PM
does that 99rs have an optical out?

NOPE!
Another reason why it's not worth 1,200$
It's worth around $700 in my opinion.

mylows10
09-11-2012, 11:52 PM
sell the shop i work at actually sells audison i can get dealer cost.

---------- Post added at 10:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 PM ----------



what do you mean by 2 sets?

like one 8
one 6.5
and 2 tweeters in the door?

yes just like this.hell if could get audison at dealer cost ,that would be my way to go to

West
09-11-2012, 11:55 PM
sell the shop i work at actually sells audison i can get dealer cost.

---------- Post added at 10:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 PM ----------



what do you mean by 2 sets?

like one 8
one 6.5
and 2 tweeters in the door?

Could you hook me up with a deal on that bit one? Please!

kramer_212
09-11-2012, 11:57 PM
yes just like this.hell if could get audison at dealer cost ,that would be my way to go to

hmm ill have to consider it.

we still talking about keeping the tweeters in the a pillars, and the center channel to?
i have actually run a pair of tweeters in my front doors low before with just a center channel and was always happy with it, that will bring the tweeter total for the car up to 10, wonder if that would be to harsh. they are silk dome 1.1inchs though not aluminum.

---------- Post added at 10:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 PM ----------


Could you hook me up with a deal on that bit one? Please!

O.o pm me.

mylows10
09-12-2012, 12:00 AM
just the center and doors.maybe even some mid tweeters for the center ,they are 2" ES 02 BL (http://www.cdtaudio.com/series/midwoofers/es02bl.htm)

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 12:05 AM
just the center and doors.maybe even some mid tweeters for the center ,they are 2" ES 02 BL (http://www.cdtaudio.com/series/midwoofers/es02bl.htm)

hmm... these have a huge freq responce going to add them to the list for now, so many options still don't know what to do about it all.

West
09-12-2012, 12:07 AM
hmm... these have a huge freq responce going to add them to the list for now, so many options still don't know what to do about it all.

With an 8 k budget you have a LOT of options... lol

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 12:09 AM
With an 8 k budget you have a LOT of options... lol

well staying lower is better, but if need be....

even at dealer cost theres around $1400 just in sound deadening.

West
09-12-2012, 12:13 AM
well staying lower is better, but if need be....

even at dealer cost theres around $1400 just in sound deadening.

Thats a lot of deadening...

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 12:16 AM
Thats a lot of deadening...

so worth it
i did it in my work car (ford tarus) lololz.

took 3 15 hour days but absoulutly zero road noise, even replaced the door seals with big semi ones, and replaced the windshield with acoustical glass.

i only have 2 13 w6s in there but they sound like 2k rms woofers, and they sound good. everybody thinks im bull shitting them until i show them.

West
09-12-2012, 12:18 AM
so worth it
i did it in my work car (ford tarus) lololz.

took 3 15 hour days but absoulutly zero road noise, even replaced the door seals with big semi ones, and replaced the windshield with acoustical glass.

i only have 2 13 w6s in there but they sound like 2k rms woofers, and they sound good. everybody thinks im bull shitting them until i show them.

You roll hard man...
All that bass can't escape, I bet it does sound nice as hell.

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 12:21 AM
You roll hard man...
All that bass can't escape, I bet it does sound nice as hell.

yeah in all reality its not really breath taking equipment either.

Rockford t2 comps up front with t1 tweeters mounted high t2 tweeters mounted low.
Rockford t1 comps in the back.
jl 300/4v2
2 Rockford t15001bdcps
pioneer deh 80prs

i did use hpm3 rcas,
and hpm 10 gauge twisted wire for all the speakers to lol. took my time used loom on everything and what not white noise isn't noticable even paused at high volume really works.

West
09-12-2012, 12:27 AM
Maybe when I get a new car I will go to those lengths to soundproof everything. Car's 13+ years old now... just not gonna get enough use out of it I think.

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 12:30 AM
Maybe when I get a new car I will go to those lengths to soundproof everything. Car's 13+ years old now... just not gonna get enough use out of it I think.

i guess one day i just felt like trying it, seriously guarantee its quieter going down the road than a $400,000 Bentley. and of coarse nothing shakes.

West
09-12-2012, 12:34 AM
i guess one day i just felt like trying it, seriously guarantee its quieter going down the road than a $400,000 Bentley. and of coarse nothing shakes.

It was a good day... :P

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 12:35 AM
It was a good day... :P

yes and know it was an expensive day about 2 weeks later was a good day lol.

West
09-12-2012, 12:39 AM
yes and know it was an expensive day about 2 weeks later was a good day lol.

It would be very difficult for me to pony up that much money when my speakers didn't even cost as much as the dampening. I bet it is something very cool though... Can you hear sirens when they drive by?

CHEMMINS
09-12-2012, 12:44 AM
No car is that soundproof.....the side glass doesn't come acoustical. All the noise you will get in cabin will be through the side glass if you somehow manage to get the rest of the car silent.

Finding acoustical windshields is hard enough. They usually only come on the higher end vehicles. Ford seems to carry to most though.

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 12:45 AM
It would be very difficult for me to pony up that much money when my speakers didn't even cost as much as the dampening. I bet it is something very cool though... Can you hear sirens when they drive by?

i don't live in the hood lol im sure i could though, i replaced the window seals but it seems like the little noise that comes in is from/around the windows.

mylows10
09-12-2012, 12:46 AM
Also look at some of the cdt Es 3 way sets

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 12:48 AM
No car is that soundproof.....the side glass doesn't come acoustical. All the noise you will get in cabin will be through the side glass if you somehow manage to get the rest of the car silent.

Finding acoustical windshields is hard enough. They usually only come on the higher end vehicles. Ford seems to carry to most though.

right, think i went with pcm brand.
although i did put acoustical tint on the back/side windows or film i guess they call it

HAVERKAMP sun protection film technology (http://www.haverkamp.de/en/sun_protection_film_technology/sound+absorption_45_80.html)

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 12:51 AM
Also look at some of the cdt Es 3 way sets

they look nice and seem to be decently priced.

the biggest reason i like audison is every single component used in every one of there products are built in house, even the capacitors etc.....so quality control is all under one company roof.

---------- Post added at 11:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 PM ----------


No car is that soundproof.....the side glass doesn't come acoustical. All the noise you will get in cabin will be through the side glass if you somehow manage to get the rest of the car silent.

Finding acoustical windshields is hard enough. They usually only come on the higher end vehicles. Ford seems to carry to most though.

but your right sound still comes through the windows.

keep_hope_alive
09-12-2012, 01:18 AM
1. should i put a 6.5 and tweeters in the center or leave the 3 inchers.
Just a 3" in the center is sufficient. More than that sacrifices placement and introduces phase interference issues. KISS

2. 2 6.5s in front door or a 6.5 and an 8

Don't mix sizes in the same airspace. I vote just one 8" midbass. KISS

3. 3 way comp in rear doors or put them in the rear deck (fiberglessed into c-pillar)

Why? Rear highs are not advised. Just the 3's are sufficient for rear fill.

4. the bit ten seems to be a better option thoughts?

A good choice if you want a center channel.

5. any other suggestions (I;m staying with the voce series) as far as speaker amount/ location im fine with taking away or adding speakers.

Less is better overall. Keep it simple. I see hundreds of hours of effort in this build.

6. thinking active the bit ten has 8 channels 10 if you include the center and subwoofer. or should i do a passive system.

Active

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 01:26 AM
1. should i put a 6.5 and tweeters in the center or leave the 3 inchers.
Just a 3" in the center is sufficient. More than that sacrifices placement and introduces phase interference issues. KISS

2. 2 6.5s in front door or a 6.5 and an 8

Don't mix sizes in the same airspace. I vote just one 8" midbass. KISS

3. 3 way comp in rear doors or put them in the rear deck (fiberglessed into c-pillar)

Why? Rear highs are not advised. Just the 3's are sufficient for rear fill.

4. the bit ten seems to be a better option thoughts?

A good choice if you want a center channel.

5. any other suggestions (I;m staying with the voce series) as far as speaker amount/ location im fine with taking away or adding speakers.

Less is better overall. Keep it simple. I see hundreds of hours of effort in this build.

6. thinking active the bit ten has 8 channels 10 if you include the center and subwoofer. or should i do a passive system.

Active

thanks secretly i was waiting for you to chime in.

so you think i shouldn't use a 6.5 at all?

and should i put an 8 or 6.5 and a 3 in the rear door or rear deck area?

keep_hope_alive
09-12-2012, 09:33 AM
thing is, a 6.5 is fine in a 2-way system. it has enough range to cover 80Hz-4000Hz. but when you go 3-way the game changes. Now you have a dedicated midrange handling 250 and up. the midbass should focus on reproducing 60Hz and up. a good 6.5 can do this, but a comparable 8" can do it better. I will always prefer a single 8 over two 6.5. i measure (and hear) enough phase interference in a car as it is, no reason to make the problem worse. if you just want it loud, add speakers. if you want it to be accurate and natural, minimize the number of speakers. even the latter can easily leave your ears ringing.

since you are heavily relying on the 3's to do most of the work - invest in them heavily. they should be the most expensive speaker. from there you're just adding a pair of 8's and a pair of tweeters. that's all you really NEED. Anything else is just adding speakers to say you added speakers - but they won't help the end result. the reason is that you don't have enough processing to address a 3-way active front and a 3-way active rear. going passive with them won't sound near as good and you'll lose midbass (despite the # of woofers) from phase interference alone.

you will need 10 outputs though
6 for the front left and right stage (midbass, mid, high)
2 for the rear left and right (ideally L-R mix)
1 for center
1 for sub

i have found that the tweeters don't need time alignment, and they could be on the same output channel as the midrange. so that does afford you the ability to reduce down to 8 channels if need be.

a center requires processing to make it sound natural. you want to remove dedicated left and right channel information and only reproduce with is only in left and only in right. you still have level differences to play with (so IID is addressed) but that can come with aiming. IMO a center is only desired for 2-seat car judging. you don't need it from the driver's seat - you can get a center image just fine with T/A to one seat.

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 10:54 AM
thing is, a 6.5 is fine in a 2-way system. it has enough range to cover 80Hz-4000Hz. but when you go 3-way the game changes. Now you have a dedicated midrange handling 250 and up. the midbass should focus on reproducing 60Hz and up. a good 6.5 can do this, but a comparable 8" can do it better. I will always prefer a single 8 over two 6.5. i measure (and hear) enough phase interference in a car as it is, no reason to make the problem worse. if you just want it loud, add speakers. if you want it to be accurate and natural, minimize the number of speakers. even the latter can easily leave your ears ringing.

since you are heavily relying on the 3's to do most of the work - invest in them heavily. they should be the most expensive speaker. from there you're just adding a pair of 8's and a pair of tweeters. that's all you really NEED. Anything else is just adding speakers to say you added speakers - but they won't help the end result. the reason is that you don't have enough processing to address a 3-way active front and a 3-way active rear. going passive with them won't sound near as good and you'll lose midbass (despite the # of woofers) from phase interference alone.

you will need 10 outputs though
6 for the front left and right stage (midbass, mid, high)
2 for the rear left and right (ideally L-R mix)
1 for center
1 for sub

i have found that the tweeters don't need time alignment, and they could be on the same output channel as the midrange. so that does afford you the ability to reduce down to 8 channels if need be.

a center requires processing to make it sound natural. you want to remove dedicated left and right channel information and only reproduce with is only in left and only in right. you still have level differences to play with (so IID is addressed) but that can come with aiming. IMO a center is only desired for 2-seat car judging. you don't need it from the driver's seat - you can get a center image just fine with T/A to one seat.

makes sence, maybe ill scratch the center channel and put a touch screen there.

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 01:57 PM
Ttt anybody else?

trumpet
09-12-2012, 02:35 PM
What exactly are your goals for this system? Is this going to be a demonstration vehicle for the store? Are you going to compete? Do you have a certain level of loudness you prefer to listen to? I've found it doesn't take much money invested into equipment to be able to get a really good sounding 1-seat car at 90 dB, which seems to be no louder than vehicles are judged for in SQ competition.

Without going line-by-line over your proposed equipment list, you could probably slash than by 50% and still have some incredible potential. What you do with that equipment and the vehicle is more important. This is why keep_hope_alive keeps talking about hundreds of hours spent on the vehicle, yet he doesn't use thousand dollar speaker sets. If you want expensive speakers to show people what Audison has to offer, then go for it. As a side benefit, you'll have better results getting your money back if you ever decide to sell the equipment than if you bought run-of-the-mill products.

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 04:11 PM
What exactly are your goals for this system? Is this going to be a demonstration vehicle for the store? Are you going to compete? Do you have a certain level of loudness you prefer to listen to? I've found it doesn't take much money invested into equipment to be able to get a really good sounding 1-seat car at 90 dB, which seems to be no louder than vehicles are judged for in SQ competition.

Without going line-by-line over your proposed equipment list, you could probably slash than by 50% and still have some incredible potential. What you do with that equipment and the vehicle is more important. This is why keep_hope_alive keeps talking about hundreds of hours spent on the vehicle, yet he doesn't use thousand dollar speaker sets. If you want expensive speakers to show people what Audison has to offer, then go for it. As a side benefit, you'll have better results getting your money back if you ever decide to sell the equipment than if you bought run-of-the-mill products.

no its my personal vehicular, no competitions, i usually listen at "extreme volumes" which is why i wanted more drivers. Once the product goes in its never coming out of the car and i will never sell it.

kramer_212
09-12-2012, 08:23 PM
bump.

kramer_212
09-14-2012, 01:28 AM
ttt

fish1234
09-14-2012, 10:24 PM
With use of Audisons high end lineup, I would personally go simple two way active front and really give them some ******* power; you'll be surprised!

Jroo
09-17-2012, 01:10 PM
For me less speakers are usually better and way easier to tune. I would start with the 3'' and the tweeter in the a pillar and dont do anything permenant until you get it where you like it. Some like apillars other hate them and call them one seat cars. In the front doors if you can get an 8" to fit, leave it there or get a decent 6.5" that plays the range you like. Some pull off multiple midbass others cant. From my experience, a good single midbass in a door usually sounds better than a crappier dual set up. I wouldnt do a 3 way in the rear. Save your money unless this is some show car and you just have to have it. That is also the deal with the center. See how it sounds before you add a center. Some cars image decent enough and dont need it, others it helps.