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splwj47
09-09-2012, 08:38 PM
so im thinking about changing up my front stage, and iv seen alot of stuff on pro audio, what the difference between pro audio stuff and regular speakers? are they just designed to get loud? if that is so that is not what im looking for. i want great sq but the abilitty to get loud.

im thinking about trying out these tweets:

Bē audio - Sweet like Danish (http://b2-audio.com/hn8.html)

and ill pair them up with the b2 es6.1 component.

Seraphim38
09-09-2012, 08:50 PM
Given that I work for one of the largest manufacturers of professional audio equipment in the world, I can speak on this topic with some authority. A few tidbits:

Professional/commercial audio drivers are commonly higher resistance than are found in car audio applications.
Professional/commercial audio speakers typically contain compression drivers, unlike the tweeters found in cars. Professional application compression drivers need to be mounted into horns, and performance quality is highly dependent upon the design of the horn.

The items listed on your link are not "professional audio components". I define professional drivers as ones that are used in a setting where the reproduction of sound is contracted as a service and charged for. Small 'bullet tweeters' like that aren't installed in any real, viable commercial applications except maybe some crappy entry level dance club box that nobody buys. In a car they might be ok, but I can't say whether those particular drivers are decent or not because I don't have any personal experience with them.

quackhead
09-09-2012, 09:30 PM
so im thinking about changing up my front stage, and iv seen alot of stuff on pro audio, what the difference between pro audio stuff and regular speakers? are they just designed to get loud? if that is so that is not what im looking for. i want great sq but the abilitty to get loud.

im thinking about trying out these tweets:

Bē audio - Sweet like Danish (http://b2-audio.com/hn8.html)

and ill pair them up with the b2 es6.1 component.

Madisound Speaker Store (http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/auto-tweeters/seas-prestige-27tffnc/g-h1396-1-textile-dome-tweeter/)
I would look into these in multiples, if needed for SQ and volume
these too:
Madisound Speaker Store (http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/scanspeak-woofers-6-7/scanspeak-classic-p17wj00-6.5-woofer/)

tommydh
09-09-2012, 09:57 PM
Given that I work for one of the largest manufacturers of professional audio equipment in the world, I can speak on this topic with some authority. A few tidbits:

Professional/commercial audio drivers are commonly higher resistance than are found in car audio applications.
Professional/commercial audio speakers typically contain compression drivers, unlike the tweeters found in cars. Professional application compression drivers need to be mounted into horns, and performance quality is highly dependent upon the design of the horn.

The items listed on your link are not "professional audio components". I define professional drivers as ones that are used in a setting where the reproduction of sound is contracted as a service and charged for. Small 'bullet tweeters' like that aren't installed in any real, viable commercial applications except maybe some crappy entry level dance club box that nobody buys. In a car they might be ok, but I can't say whether those particular drivers are decent or not because I don't have any personal experience with them.
I agree, I have ran live sound production in clubs and outdoor venues for a few years. I have worked for a cpl large production companies in the MD area as a monitor engineer and front of house. In my experience the tweeters would be 1 difficult to mount since they need the horn and I dont believe PA tweets would sound good in a car. Most of them are 8 ohms and can take a ton of power. In my one rig which is my small set up I have my tops powered with 1000 watt QSC power amps. I never deter anyone from trying stuff I just have never thought it would be feasable.

VisceralSound
09-09-2012, 10:04 PM
I'm working on doing the same as OP; would these tweets work in a car environment? Madisound Speaker Store (http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/horn-tweeters/audax-pr125t1-horn-tweeter/)

splwj47
09-09-2012, 10:07 PM
ya i changed my mind lol, its not what im looking for. it looked interesting to try but dont think i would be happy with the end result. got something else in the works now :cool:

pro-rabbit
09-09-2012, 10:08 PM
I have never been a fan of pro audio in cars...but that is just me lol

quackhead
09-09-2012, 10:34 PM
too close and personal...My head starts aching looking at those bullet tweeters

quackhead
09-09-2012, 10:36 PM
ya i changed my mind lol, its not what im looking for. it looked interesting to try but dont think i would be happy with the end result. got something else in the works now :cool:

If you go with the B2 comps, do a review, bro.

quackhead
09-09-2012, 10:42 PM
I agree, I have ran live sound production in clubs and outdoor venues for a few years. I have worked for a cpl large production companies in the MD area as a monitor engineer and front of house. In my experience the tweeters would be 1 difficult to mount since they need the horn and I dont believe PA tweets would sound good in a car. Most of them are 8 ohms and can take a ton of power. In my one rig which is my small set up I have my tops powered with 1000 watt QSC power amps. I never deter anyone from trying stuff I just have never thought it would be feasable.

check these out. They mount under the dash and hang parallel with the bottom of the dash line:
http://www.usdaudio.com/usd/product/super-a.jpg


1" Compression Driver
1.75" Beryllium Diaphram
RotoMount
Frequency Response: 500Hz to 20kHz
Recommend Crossover Frequency: 800Hz.
Power Handling: 35 watts RMS
Sensitivity: 110dB 1w/M
Nominal Impedence: 8 ohms
Size: Mouth - 2.5" high x 18" wide x 11.5" deep
Motor height - 5.75"
SpeakerWorks/USD Audio Install Gallery (http://www.usdaudio.com/sw/cars/buick/index.php) scroll through the top menus and notice the drivers used in the winningest Pro car in Car Audio Competition history (circa.1990)

splwj47
09-09-2012, 10:44 PM
If you go with the B2 comps, do a review, bro.

im gonna wait for the new b2 comp set to come out, the refernce line. there gonna be geared towards sq like there new reference woofer. they are suppost to be comparable to the higher end morel and scan speak drivers.

mlstrass
09-11-2012, 06:50 AM
The B2 comps you linked are more like what is considered PA in the car audio world.

You need to define your idea of SQ and go from there. Imaging, staging, ect... can be achieved with any set of speakers. Tonality is what will be different between PA stuff and regular car audio stuff.

I've done numerous set ups with both and personally enjoy the PA stuff more now. Usually it's not as strong in the midbass region but has more of an in your face sound in the midrange area. Tweeters can be harsh and shrilly if overpowered, but set them up properly and they have a lot of top end and a full bodied sound.

The normal mids I've run seem to have a little fuller sound for lack of a better word. The Alpine Pro tweeters are still my favs as I'm partial to ring radiators when it comes to a reg tweeter.

I run Klipsch Horns in the home so perhaps I'm more accustomed to that type of sound...

TaylorFade
09-11-2012, 07:05 AM
I've chatted with Jay about the es6.1 i's and he said the new line is upgraded. Is that the ones you're talking about? Or are they releasing another dedicated reference line?

He said the es6.1's are actually run in a ton of SQ builds overseas and do quite well. For the price, they're basically impossible not to audition.

And PA drivers sound like **** in a car. To me. If you want loud and SQ, get multiples of quality drivers. Not loud, crappy ones.

mlstrass
09-11-2012, 07:11 AM
I've chatted with Jay about the es6.1 i's and he said the new line is upgraded. Is that the ones you're talking about? Or are they releasing another dedicated reference line?

He said the es6.1's are actually run in a ton of SQ builds overseas and do quite well. For the price, they're basically impossible not to audition.

And PA drivers sound like **** in a car. To me. If you want loud and SQ, get multiples of quality drivers. Not loud, crappy ones.

You just haven't heard a good PA set up playing real music and not turned up to max distortion. I hate PA stuff when I first heard it as it was horrible sounding, mostly because of how they users had it set up. Most run no xovers so all speakers play full range, plus they over power them and jack up the EQ settings.

TaylorFade
09-11-2012, 07:17 AM
You just haven't heard a good PA set up playing real music and not turned up to max distortion. I hate PA stuff when I first heard it as it was horrible sounding, mostly because of how they users had it set up. Most run no xovers so all speakers play full range, plus they over power them and jack up the EQ settings.

You're right. And it was an unfounded blanket statement. I never heard Richard Clark's car and I heard it was all PA stuff. How many people run PA gear set it up correctly? 0.000001%? People get PA crap because it's cheap and loud.

I'm overly sensitive to midrange frequencies too so PA stuff gives me a headache. It sounds more like "Public Address" than "Pro Audio" to me.

mlstrass
09-11-2012, 07:22 AM
You're right. And it was an unfounded blanket statement. I never heard Richard Clark's car and I heard it was all PA stuff. How many people run PA gear set it up correctly? 0.000001%? People get PA crap because it's cheap and loud.

I'm overly sensitive to midrange frequencies too so PA stuff gives me a headache. It sounds more like "Public Address" than "Pro Audio" to me.

I will agree with all but the cheap part. True that most people tend to buy the budget stuff but you start looking at the upper end PA stuff and mids are $250-500 each and horns can go for several hundo each.

Even my budget Selenium brand has mids for $300 each, problem is you can't get enough power for them since they're 8ohm and 1200rms.

Truse me I've heard more "ice cream truck" setups then I care to remember :laugh:

matt_bennett05
09-11-2012, 08:00 AM
That b2 H8 looks tasty.

TaylorFade
09-11-2012, 09:44 AM
I will agree with all but the cheap part. True that most people tend to buy the budget stuff but you start looking at the upper end PA stuff and mids are $250-500 each and horns can go for several hundo each.

Even my budget Selenium brand has mids for $300 each, problem is you can't get enough power for them since they're 8ohm and 1200rms.

Truse me I've heard more "ice cream truck" setups then I care to remember :laugh:

Oh, man. You nailed it with the "ice cream truck" thing. That's exactly what it sounds like! Ugh.

Distance test, anyone?

quackhead
09-11-2012, 11:05 AM
Oh, man. You nailed it with the "ice cream truck" thing. That's exactly what it sounds like! Ugh.

Distance test, anyone?

u have to get with twistedchild420 on that...lol

mlstrass
09-11-2012, 10:52 PM
Oh, man. You nailed it with the "ice cream truck" thing. That's exactly what it sounds like! Ugh.

Distance test, anyone?

I was heard about 1/2 mile away at Slam this year. Pretty good for distance IMO....

CAT MAN
09-11-2012, 10:54 PM
i love pa speakers in cars. they keep up very well unlike some car audio components. it doesnt take alot either.

mlstrass
09-12-2012, 04:45 AM
i love pa speakers in cars. they keep up very well unlike some car audio components. it doesnt take alot either.

They definitely can do the job when you have a very loud substage as reg comps just won't cut it. I don't care how many you put in there.

I compete at hood shows in Chitown a few times a year. Judge is a local radio station DJ and they judge by ear. Loudest bass/mids/highs. I've seen cars/vans with 50-60 by-nines in them and my PA stuff kills them every time...

TheUnderFighter
09-12-2012, 05:23 AM
Fwiw, I have the Crescendo mp6 mids in my car, and love them. Great output, and sound good to me. I'm no SQ snob, but I'm not a bass head either I don't think. I only run a single 10 after-all. I have them paired with the Vifa Ring Radiator tweets, I am very pleased :)

splwj47
09-12-2012, 11:24 AM
I've chatted with Jay about the es6.1 i's and he said the new line is upgraded. Is that the ones you're talking about? Or are they releasing another dedicated reference line?

He said the es6.1's are actually run in a ton of SQ builds overseas and do quite well. For the price, they're basically impossible not to audition.

And PA drivers sound like **** in a car. To me. If you want loud and SQ, get multiples of quality drivers. Not loud, crappy ones.

I was talking with jack anout the es6.1 and he told me that the es6.1 would be a big downgrade to what im running now. He told me about the new comps they will be comming out with. They are gonna be geared towards sq like there new hn woofer. He said they are working on them now but wont be out for production till early 2013, and they are suppost to be like the high end morel and scan speak (same build house).

mlstrass
09-13-2012, 03:26 AM
Fwiw, I have the Crescendo mp6 mids in my car, and love them. Great output, and sound good to me. I'm no SQ snob, but I'm not a bass head either I don't think. I only run a single 10 after-all. I have them paired with the Vifa Ring Radiator tweets, I am very pleased :)

Vifa tweets are one of my favs, but wasn't impressed by the mps. They sound decent, have pretty strong midbass, but they don't get loud at all.