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View Full Version : Rainbow Kicks 3 Way but without a subwoofer?



Rysandro
08-31-2012, 05:07 PM
Are the rainbow kicks a good or bad choice when going three way without a subwoofer?

From what I understand the Kicks are best between 80-250hz, and you'll want a smaller midrange speaker above around 300Hz. (something I can do)

But without a subwoofer, (don't wanna give up room in my 4Runner) do I give up going below 80Hz to get the best mid bass between 80-250 Hz with a Vanadium Kick Bass. Or do I just get regular Rainbow Vanadiums which can go lower than the kicks, but aren't as good between 80-250..

Setup so far:

A Pair of Alpine PDXF4
Rainbow Cal 27 Tweeters
Rainbow Vanadium W165 Woofers (ordered)
Hertz HCX 165 Coaxials (for tail gate door, most for camping or tailgate parties)

Might get: Rainbow Vanadium MR 100 4" midrange or perhaps another midrange speaker between 3-4" in diameter

Still undecided on what DSP to get...

If I end up with 8 speakers (3 way + tailgate) would I need a DSP with 6 inputs and 8 outputs?

quackhead
08-31-2012, 05:24 PM
if sq is that crucial, then bass extension into the low 30hz region is an absolute must, just to be able to accurately reproduce the low B on a bass guitar, not to mention the percussion from a double kick bass drum. At least a 8" ported or a 10" sealed on adequate power.

quackhead
08-31-2012, 05:29 PM
but to answer your question, the kicks will sound like poo without a sub, if you put anything below the 80z mark with 100 watts to them, they will exceed their mechanical limitations.

Rysandro
08-31-2012, 06:19 PM
but to answer your question, the kicks will sound like poo without a sub, if you put anything below the 80z mark with 100 watts to them, they will exceed their mechanical limitations.

Thanks, guess I did well by ordering regular Vanadiums than.

keep_hope_alive
08-31-2012, 11:14 PM
A good midbass driver is capable below 50Hz, but a lot of airspace is required. I run a 6.5" midbass in the door with a mid in the kick. The door midbass can play low enough that without a sub it sounds fine. And with a kick midrange and a pillar tweets I have an excellent sound stage.

But speakers weren't simply dropped in factory doors. A lot of effort went into install for me to get what I have now.

hispls
08-31-2012, 11:16 PM
For the trouble/expense of making the doors right to get real low frequency from the front, you're a lot easier off buying a small sub.

keep_hope_alive
08-31-2012, 11:39 PM
I disagree. Properly installing the front door speakers should be the first step in a system. Proper front midbass is crucial for getting the sub system to blend with the front system.

TaylorFade
09-01-2012, 07:18 AM
I disagree. Properly installing the front door speakers should be the first step in a system. Proper front midbass is crucial for getting the sub system to blend with the front system.

This.

Too many times I've not payed enough attention to the door and/or midbass install and all I got was midrange, highs and overhwelming bass. Now, I like the overhwelming bass part, but at reference volumes, a proper midbass makes the sub stage sound soooo much better. I really put some time in on my doors this time around. The midbass still isn't quite where I want it (probably the drivers), but after all is said and done, it blends so well that it sounds like my sub is coming from the front. It's awesome.

If you get a capable enough midbass, you can run with no sub. I know of a couple world class SQ competitors that turn the sub stage completely off when they get judged. Lower classes, but still. My buddy is super concerned with weight. He runs HAT L6's in the doors. I got a demo and said, "where's the sub?" He had none.

Personally, I have to have a sub. I'm just a bass junkie like that. But you can have an amazing system without one. Especially if you don't listen to rap 24/7.

quackhead
09-01-2012, 08:27 AM
For the trouble/expense of making the doors right to get real low frequency from the front, you're a lot easier off buying a small sub.

A totally agree with this 1000%. The fundamentals of sub bass frequencies in general from 50hz down to 28hz dictate the use of a larger driver and more power just to be able to accurately reproduce the drop tunings popular with artists these days. Especially in a noisy automotive environment. The easiest and best way to do this is with a sub woofer.


I disagree. Properly installing the front door speakers should be the first step in a system. Proper front midbass is crucial for getting the sub system to blend with the front system.

I agree with this 1000%. It solidifies the statement hispls made.


This.

Too many times I've not payed enough attention to the door and/or midbass install and all I got was midrange, highs and overhwelming bass. Now, I like the overhwelming bass part, but at reference volumes, a proper midbass makes the sub stage sound soooo much better. I really put some time in on my doors this time around. The midbass still isn't quite where I want it (probably the drivers), but after all is said and done, it blends so well that it sounds like my sub is coming from the front. It's awesome.

If you get a capable enough midbass, you can run with no sub. I know of a couple world class SQ competitors that turn the sub stage completely off when they get judged. Lower classes, but still. My buddy is super concerned with weight. He runs HAT L6's in the doors. I got a demo and said, "where's the sub?" He had none.

Personally, I have to have a sub. I'm just a bass junkie like that. But you can have an amazing system without one. Especially if you don't listen to rap 24/7.

that means the mids are doing their job.
That can be expected in a world class system....not many of those in daily rides.


The op didn't want to sacrifice room for a sub and wants what they can get from door speakers. The Rainbow Kicks are mechanically incapable of extending low enough. period. The Vanadiums have the frequency extension to accurately reproduce music well below that of the Rainbow Kicks. To achieve a level of quality that would eliminate the need for a sub bass driver inside a vehicle rolling down the highway at 70 MPH would require a world class install.

keep_hope_alive
09-01-2012, 11:51 AM
both the Scion tC and my Accord offer "up front bass" imaging... when the level of the sub system is matched with the output from the doors. These are our daily drivers. it's possible if you put the effort into it.

when people sit in the Scion their first question is - why does it sound like you have a sub in your dash firing up?

quackhead
09-01-2012, 12:52 PM
if you can sense where the bass is coming from, it is not sub bass, it is midbass.. likely @ 80 hz and up. There is a lot of music in modern recordings that will be lost in a system that is incapable of reproducing sub bass energy.