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sumone
04-02-2004, 03:58 PM
Okay so I'm on spring break next week, and I feel it's the perfect time to try fiberglassing some kick. take a look at the weather (http://wwwa.accuweather.com/adcbin/public/local_index_6to10day.asp?zipcode=60640&metric=0&traveler=1) we're gonna be havin next week - 40s and 50s with only 2 days of raining & snowing! Even though I still have to work 5-6 hours every day, I feel it's the right time.

So...tryin to get my materials ready. As of now I'm only focusing on doing the fiberglassing part that requires you to be in the car.

So I'm gonna need (correct me if I'm wrong):
- some fiberglass mat
- some paint brushes
- some bondo (that's the resin right?)
- some hardener tubes
- some masking tape & aluminum foil

I got the 2x4x1/2 mdf, but I tried sawing with that jigsaw (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=28057&item=2389266493&ssPageName=STRK:MEBWN:IT) I got and I ended up cutting a 0.25 x 1 inch piece in a very crooked line. Keep in mind I was on my knees with my left arm slumped over the board to keep it steady (which I failed at) and my right arm holding the saw to cut it (cutting a piece from the top-right side of it). I don't know how the hell I'm gonna cut a circle for the baffle....

And as for trimming the fiberglass, I'm gonna do that with the rotary tool that I got from here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29528&item=2388920077&ssPageName=STRK:MEBWN:IT). I just hope it can cut through the fiberglass.

I'm not worried about the mdf & trimming yet, I just wanna get the fiberglassin done first.

Oh yea, I'm not gonna screw them down either; I think if I just got some duct tape they'll stay in their place.

I've got gauntlet's tutorial saved locally to be printed out.

This should take less than 2 hours per side right? Cause I'm gonna have to start like 8/9 in the mornin or maybe I'll just do the left one day and the right another day.

So, no mask, no respirator, no garage; I hope this'll work out.

btw, the speakers are 6.5 cdt hd-62efs & cl-61s. also sbc's cutting our phone off over the weekend since we can't pay the bill and can do without it, so I won't be able to view this site until I don't know when (unless I'm at work and decide to get sidetrack and pop it up - I put in 99% when I work...)

So any comments, suggestions, let me know.

LoneRanger
04-02-2004, 04:35 PM
First and foremost, i don't suggest using a mask or a respirator. Catching a buzz from the resin fumes is half the fun :)

Here's what you'll need:

Resin and hardener. They're sold as a pair. Lowes has a gallon for $23 and wal-mart sells quarts for $9. If you need a bunch, save yourself the time and money and buy the gallon.

Fleece. Not fiberglass mat. Mat doesn't streach and it comes apart when you start brushing on the resin. I'm sure it's great for repairing your bass boat, but for the application you're using, make it easy on yourself and just get some fleece (its cheaper too!)

Mixing cups. This can be anything from a disposable plastic cup to an old ice cream bucket. I personally save the little tubs that butter comes in just for 'glassing.

Paint Brushes. Buy the cheap ones (less than a dollar each) cause once the resin hardens on them, they're ruined.

Acetone. You use this stuff to thin out resin if it starts to get thick on ya. Also very helpful for cleanup if you happen to get some on your skin or on some metal. If you spill it on anything that will soak up liquids, don't even waste your time trying to clean it up. Its there forever.

Latex Gloves. Very important. Either the kind the doctor uses when he gives you the "turn your head and cough" test or the yellow/blue cleaning kind. Unless you have a good reason to have your fingers sticking to everything you touch for the next 48-72 hours, make sure you wear some gloves.

Patience. Lots and lots of patience. Chances are your first project won't turn out so great, but if you keep practicing you'll get it sooner or later.

If you run into any more snags, let me know and I'll do the best i can to help guide ya thru it.

And for gods sake, pay the internet bill before you go out and buy all this crap. The weather is only gonna get better, ya know :)

Mark_ab
04-02-2004, 05:21 PM
I disagree with Don on his materials/supplies list slightly.
A) Get a respirator, we don't need to be losing any more brain cells than we need to, right?
B) Fleece is not an adequate subsititue for fiberglass matt - it's brittle and doesn't layer properly. Fleece is used once the mold is created in order to obtain the contours you desire out of your kick panels. Keep in mind you need to reinforce the fleece with at least one layer of FG mat (Depending on the type/thickness of the fleece. As stated, it is brittle and does not actually add a great deal of strength)

You will need a small-ish can of bondo for your work on finishing the kick panels, depending on how you plan on finishing them - whether it be carpet, vinyl, paint, or whatever.

You will also need some duct tape and petroleum Jelly (I prefer duct tape to aluminum foil by virtue of keeping true to the contours of the floor).

If you don't plan on securing the kick panels, try using some velcro. It would be awful for the pod to come loose and find its way under a brake peddle.

sumone
04-02-2004, 05:43 PM
...isn't a fleece what those old navy sweater things are made of? I'm confused....

helotaxi
04-02-2004, 06:08 PM
Fleece. Not fiberglass mat. Mat doesn't streach and it comes apart when you start brushing on the resin. I'm sure it's great for repairing your bass boat, but for the application you're using, make it easy on yourself and just get some fleece (its cheaper too!)
He'll need mat, too for the first mold for the base.

Unless you have a good reason to have your fingers sticking to everything you touch for the next 48-72 hours, make sure you wear some gloves.
Now I say that this is half the fun. Looking like "Teen Wolf" with long strands on glass fiber hanging off your hands is my favorite! :D

Patience. Lots and lots of patience. Chances are your first project won't turn out so great, but if you keep practicing you'll get it sooner or later.
Amen. I am on my second tire well in 3 days. I really didn't like the way the first one was coming out so I scrapped it. This one is going to be money. Pics will be up soon.

And for gods sake, pay the internet bill before you go out and buy all this crap. The weather is only gonna get better, ya know :)
Amen!

LoneRanger
04-02-2004, 06:31 PM
I disagree with Don on his materials/supplies list slightly.
A) Get a respirator, we don't need to be losing any more brain cells than we need to, right?
B) Fleece is not an adequate subsititue for fiberglass matt - it's brittle and doesn't layer properly. Fleece is used once the mold is created in order to obtain the contours you desire out of your kick panels. Keep in mind you need to reinforce the fleece with at least one layer of FG mat (Depending on the type/thickness of the fleece. As stated, it is brittle and does not actually add a great deal of strength)

You will need a small-ish can of bondo for your work on finishing the kick panels, depending on how you plan on finishing them - whether it be carpet, vinyl, paint, or whatever.

You will also need some duct tape and petroleum Jelly (I prefer duct tape to aluminum foil by virtue of keeping true to the contours of the floor).

If you don't plan on securing the kick panels, try using some velcro. It would be awful for the pod to come loose and find its way under a brake peddle.

The thing about sniffing resin was a joke. That stuff is really bad for ya.

Every fiberglass project i've undertaken (except my dash), I've used fleece and nothing else. Once the initial coat of resin is hard and dry to the touch, give it with another thin coat. It's not brittle at all. I can actually bend my trunk panels a good bit and they just flex back to the original shape....maybe i'm just lucky.

Painters masking tape is a little better, in my opinion than duct tape. That stuff tends to leave nasty residue when you take it off.

The part about the petrol and bondo were oversights on my part. Thanks for the correction.

sumone
04-03-2004, 04:33 AM
so let me get these points straight:

1. I don't really need fiberglass mat, all I need is a fleece. LoneRanger, you don't use ANY fiberglass mat, am I correct? Also, where can I get fleece from? acehardware.com didn't have any relevant matches and homedepot.com didn't have any.

2. what's the petroleum jelly for? cleanup like with acetone?

3. resin is bad to inhale. is it worse than elmer's glue? can I just cover my mouth/nose with some cloth/rag?

Acidburn
04-03-2004, 04:58 AM
1. well i guess you could use only fleece, i used a couple layers of fiberglass cloth but i believe it is kind of just personal preference, you can get fleece from a fabric store or maybe even a craft store

2. the petroleum jelly is the "mold release agent" its so you can get the mold out of your car after it dries

3. the resin is 78834463 times worse than elmers glue, if elmers glue was water, resin would be everclear, i used a respirator and i could still smell it some through it

LoneRanger
04-03-2004, 05:02 AM
so let me get these points straight:

1. I don't really need fiberglass mat, all I need is a fleece. LoneRanger, you don't use ANY fiberglass mat, am I correct? Also, where can I get fleece from? acehardware.com didn't have any relevant matches and homedepot.com didn't have any.

2. what's the petroleum jelly for? cleanup like with acetone?

3. resin is bad to inhale. is it worse than elmer's glue? can I just cover my mouth/nose with some cloth/rag?

1. fabric store. it's the crap they make baby blankets and jogging pants out of.

2. release agent. makes it to where the 'glass won't stick to the mold.

3. it's worse than sniffing markers while huffing duster. just do it outside where it's well ventilated and take breaks every 10-15 mins and just get away from the smell. if you start to get light headed or dizzy, go inside and take a breather. If you're a smoker like myself, try not to smoke too often while you're doing it....something about cigarette smoke and resin fumes combined makes me sick as hell. I'd suggest at least a cheap ventilator mask. they're like $2 for 5 at lowes.

brandonloserkid
04-03-2004, 08:57 AM
respirators are a good purchase i got mine for $21 at home depot... better than those **** lay over peices of fabric paper... not to change the subject, made any progress on that dashboard don?

jbl_marshall21
04-03-2004, 09:35 AM
i did all my fiberglass without a mask and respirator. i got headaches everytime i did it though.

sumone
04-04-2004, 03:56 PM
..seems like I have a question for everything, sorry:

out of the matches on here (http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@2117026949.1081104967@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccckadcledkdghhcgelceffdfgidgjn.0&MID=9876) which one would be the best for the job (excluding that $99 one)?

sumone
04-04-2004, 04:00 PM
okay that link didn't work; (all it was search results from home depot on "respirator")

am I looking for:
1- organic vapor, paint & pesticide respirator
2- dust & mist respirator
3- fiberglass particulate respirator (is this for resin too though?)
4- respirator for paint lead removal
5- particulate respirator for woodwork/sanding

I'm gonna guess and say #1?

brandonloserkid
04-04-2004, 04:12 PM
#1 is what i got, when you search respirator, its the one thats 19.97, it works better than a crappy paper mouth cover, but you can still smell the resin a little, so just take a couple breaks if you feel sick

helotaxi
04-04-2004, 04:21 PM
1- organic vapor, paint & pesticide respirator
2- dust & mist respirator
3- fiberglass particulate respirator (is this for resin too though?)
4- respirator for paint lead removal
5- particulate respirator for woodwork/sanding

#1 is for chems and is what you want.
#2 is for an environment with lots of large particles in the air
#3 is for when you are cutting fiberglass (the fibers not the resin) with a cutting wheel or sanding it. The particles are much smaller than what is filtered by most masks and will tear your lungs up if you inhale a lot of it.
#4 is just what is says. Neutralizes the lead in the dust made when sanding off lead based paint
#5 is for wood particles. Not really tiny particles but they are an iritant to most people and cause allergic reactions in some when they come in contact with mucous membrane.

ss3079
04-04-2004, 04:32 PM
Just put pictures up in General Discussion on my kicks.

I didn't wear gloves. Wear gloves ... please.
I wore one of those small flimsy things from the hospital ... well, it was more stiff than those really really cheap ones (it held it's cup shape) ... didn't smell a thing. I do a lot of fiberglass on exterior of vehicles and boats, so I do have a respirator.

One thing I will say is be sure to soak the fleece ALL the way through ... it takes a LOT of resin to do so ... so don't be suprised.

If you follow Gauntlet's tutorial, you should be fine.

Oh yeah, body filler *****.

- Steve

sumone
04-04-2004, 10:04 PM
I'm forbidden in opening you're thread due to your "56k nono" warning...lol. Looks good. That mask you wore, you said you couldn't smell anything, but were there any other effects that you felt that were probably due to the resin?

So, I go to home depot today, about to a buy a respirator, and what do I see? The ones they have there were $30, compared to $20 on the website. Skip that! (even though I only had $23...) So if I can order it online and the cost w/ shipping & handling is less than $30, AND if I can get it before wednesday, I'm gonna go that route. Then again, it's only $10 more...lol.

But, if you say that the doctor mask that you had worked pretty good, that's gonna be my solution...

I wanna try doing it on tuesday (& wednesday if necessary).

brandonloserkid
04-04-2004, 10:15 PM
takes lots of step by step pics, i like to read people worklogs... and its nice to see a newbie try, GOOD LUCK

ss3079
04-04-2004, 10:19 PM
I'm forbidden in opening you're thread due to your "56k nono" warning...lol. Looks good. That mask you wore, you said you couldn't smell anything, but were there any other effects that you felt that were probably due to the resin?


I was perfectly fine, and so were my friends.

It was one of those 'cup' style ones where you can pinch the little metal nose piece over your nose. If you know what I'm talking about. Came in a package of like 10 or so ... forget how much they were.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/homes/diy/safety/images/mask.jpg ... basically.

You can go to my kicks thread if you want ... it might just take a while to load ;)

- Steve

brandonloserkid
04-04-2004, 11:22 PM
wheres the kicks thread?

sumone
04-05-2004, 04:17 AM
Couple Pics (56k nono) (http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/showthread.php?t=55607)

I opened it up, let it load, and in the meantime: made me a sandwich, watched jerry springer, took a shower, ironed, and visited a friend; when I got back, all I saw on the status bar was "downloading...5 items remaining". lol, but they look good and smooth. I doubt I'm gonna sand/smoothen mine out....hold up, I bought a rotary tool, maybe I can!

respirator from homedepot.com w/ 2-3 b.days shipping for $26 compared to the store for $30

Also, I was thinking; I'd look crazy as hell with a respirator on! Remember I'm out on the street parked on a 1-way street in front the house...err...apartment. In my hood, ..... I'd prolly get jacked for it...lol. So, I'm gonna go with a hospital mask then.

So here's what I need (I'm not gonna use fiberglass):

0. some fleece (already got some old jogging pants)
1. some hospital masks (finna buy some from ace)
2. some latex gloves (finna buy some from ace)
3. some cheap paint brushes (ace I think)
4. a gallon of bondo w/hardener (ace only has quarts)
5. masking tape / painter's tape (finna buy)
6. aluminum foil (already got some) / duct tape
7. petroleum jelly (already got some vaseline)

When I use the fleece, do I have to cut it up? or can I just throw it on the area and start laying the resin? I'm really gonna kinda overdo it on the area that I'm gonna use cause I still contemplating if I'm gonna cut my own mdf baffles and have to use dowels or if I'm gonna use those q-logic kick panels since they did cost $100 and cutting a circle with a jigsaw is extremely difficult for a person like me.

I'll try and take some pics, however I don't wanna f-up my camera either. Cause really to me it only seems like one major step - laying the resin on the fleece.

3 months ago I would've never thought of doing this...I guess it means I'm serious about CA...

sumone
04-05-2004, 08:47 PM
I can't find resin! My ace hardware only had body filler bondo, home depot doesn't have it and neither does walmart. Where else can I find it???? (...Specific places please!!! major chains/franchises/etc) My only alternative is to order online, however then I won't be able to do it tomorrow :(

ss3079
04-05-2004, 08:51 PM
I'm very suprised that Walmart and Home Depot don't have it ...
Especially Home Depot ... you'd think both places would have it even in smaller quantities.

Lowes ?

Local marina / boat repair place ?

- steve

sumone
04-05-2004, 09:34 PM
whew! I'm relieved. Out of the 3 home depot's I called, one of em had it. I guess not everything is on their website either...Cause I went to one home depot and couldn't find any. I guess you gotta try all 4 out before you get a hit...

so, my project is on for tomorrow....(well, that is if I make it to home depot in time. I get off work @ 8:30 ish)

ss3079
04-05-2004, 10:44 PM
Everything I've ever searched for on their website wasn't on there.

Same thing for Crappy Tire (Canadian store), Walmart, etc. When you have a massive amount of products, it's real hard to get everything down to 1" paint brushes on there.

- Steve

sumone
04-06-2004, 12:29 AM
(the name is this thread is gettin on my nerves...lol...I named it)

Well, the home depot that said they had it - bad news: was out of stock. :(

Then I remembered the home depot I called and the guy didn't even know what fiberglass resin was and had never heard of bondo. So I thought, maybe he just doesn't know it's there and...it was! Whew!

So I got all my supplies I think: pictures of my stuff on the bottom (http://www.geocities.com/xxinfamisxx/stuff1.html)

[Ace hardware stuff: $13]
- 2 respirator masks
- a new roll of masking tape
- a pack of 10 vinyl disposable gloves
- 6 brushes (4 smaller ones and two bigger ones) (45 & 55 cent ones)
[home depot stuff: $25]
- a gallon of bondo all-purpose fiberglass resin
- 2 tubes of hardener (came with the resin)

[stuff I already had: *priceless*]
- fleece (an old navy sweater fleece thing that i never wear)
- a roll of aluminum foil

however, still gotta go and get some small cups maybe from jewels or somethin

Based on the stuff I listed above, any thing I leave out cause you know I'm gonna be up early tomorrow looking for those last minute suggestions and stuff.

Main questions:
1. do I need more brushes (got 6) and gloves (a pack of 10)?
2. does it matter if while I'm laying the resin on, the left side hardens and I'm still laying it on the right side, for example?

It's funny how my mom thinks I'm trying to make a bomb...lol...My family's not rich and we don't live in the suburbs! What was she thinkin!

sumone
04-06-2004, 03:20 PM
can't really post my review of how it went yet since I gotta hurry and get to work (not to mention my windows are rolled down a crack - a very big NONO in my hood)

but pictures are here (http://www.geocities.com/xxinfamisxx/driver_side_fb_kicks.html)

they're from when there was nothing there to how it was when I left the car so they could dry/cure/harden/whatever. tell the truth I don't know if they look good or bad....decide for yourself?

oh yeah, I hope fiberglass mat is easier than fleece...cause fleece is a b*tch!

sumone
04-06-2004, 11:48 PM
a newbie's thoughts on fiberglassing with fleece:

- laying the tape was harder than I thought

- resin smells good

- when that stuff starts to harden the fleece, the heat feels crazy! I saw smoke coming from some areas! I thought it was my power wire to my amp since I had just blown the fuse!

- when the fleece starts to harden, it ain't goin anywhere (which is a problem especially when it decides to take its own route around curves)

- it takes a lot to get the fleece soaked, especially since resin is gooey. on some areas I can still feel the softness of the fleece meaning I didn't get enough in

- should have used a lighter colored fleece

- fleece doesn't stick contrary to what you might think.

- it gets complicated when the wind keeps blowing your bondo in dixie cups over and brushes and gloves and stuff.

- timelog:
- - 10:00 - started taping
- - 10:50 - started laying fleece on resin
- - 12:20 - finished laying fleece

I think I'm just gonna scrap what I did today. I'm not totally sure if it's supposed to be like that or not but kinda leanin on the not side. Any opinions? the same pictures as above (http://www.geocities.com/xxinfamisxx/driver_side_fb_kicks.html)

also for other newbies out there....it's really not that hard to do (like I have the credentials to say so...lol).

TPABlazer
04-07-2004, 01:39 PM
i wouldnt have used an actual sweater lol, walmart just has the fleece for sale by the yard

I am one of those use matte for the backside and fleece for the mold, since the fleece takes so much to soak it, its easier to use the matte, as it is thinner. Also, cutting the fleece into strips seems like too muchwork, especially as the fleece takes so much resin to saturate.. its making more work for yourself.

What I would do: (personal opinion) try again. do the same process with the tape etc.. and if you want less of a mess to clean up the jelly, you can use pam cooking spray, or even car wax on the tape. then instead of the fleece, just use some matte, and cut it into strips, the matte will lay smoother on itself then fleece will, and will be fine.

sumone
04-08-2004, 12:45 AM
yea was gonna do the passenger side today using fiberglass mat, but
- went to ace - no fiberglass mat
- went to one home depot - spent half an hour looking for it and being directed to multiple departments where I just finally gave up
- called another home depot, said they had it, and made him tell me exactly where it was
- went there and got it

however, by the time I got home, I wouldn't have had enough time to do it and let it cure for a while so I just have to wait another day.

I think cutting up the fleece was a bad idea too cause I got some holes in some places and also it just looks funny. I'm up here looking at the fiberglass mat, and I see the strands (which I didn't know mat was like that) - looks like it's gonna be trouble...(with regards to it sticking to the brush and other areas). But I can tell that it'll be much easier to work with as far as being accurate around curves and stuff.

May try tomorrow but gotta check the weather to see if it's gonna rain or even snow.

TPABlazer
04-08-2004, 01:08 AM
the strands dont stick to the brush much, the wieght of the resin and the stickiness (for lack of better word) hold the matte together.

Acidburn
04-08-2004, 01:18 AM
when working with fiberglass, i prefer the cloth, i find that it doesnt come apart so much, just a personal preference i guess

sumone
04-08-2004, 04:02 PM
Fiberglassing, take 2:

This was so much easier! why in the world would anyone wanna use a fleece for that! come on Don I'm not an experienced professional like yourself! I used fleece cause I had it on hand and didn't wanna buy fiberglass mat. But when I saw it was only 5 bucks...I had to be kidding myself to use fleece.

First of all, laying the tape was the hardest part again. But once you get start laying the fiberglass and resin&hardener mixture on, it's not that complicated. This time went very smooth, however, I think I got some hardened bubbles and stuff.

To compare with tuesday using fleece, today:
2 3oz. cups of resin,
2 brushes,
took about 20 minutes to lay the resin

when I used the fleece:
5 3oz. cups of resin,
4 brushes,
took about an hour to lay.

Also I do remember Gauntlet's pic of his finished mold and his stuff was pretty brownish/redish. And mines is pretty clear. I guess the good thing is if I need to do another layer, I don't have to be in the car.

tell the truth, I should've re-did the driver's side (the side I did when I used the fleece) cause this stuff went by quick! However, what made me not was the dreaded laying of the tape and I was hungry.

I should be getting my 542 dremel bit soon ($6 off of ebay) and then will be able to cut it. All in all, I think this turned out alright. I will have a pic up of the finished one later on, cause right now it's still in the car curing. Also my batteries ran out (rechargeable) for my camera so wasn't able to take any in-the-process pics.

But I think this is gonna be good.

sumone
04-10-2004, 04:40 AM
woo hoo...driver & passenger fiberglassed bottom molds are done! I did the driver's side today, replacing the stuff I did with the fleece on tuesday. Today was kinda rough - I think I cause I jumped into like "ok, this is my third time, I know what I'm doin". I ended up kicking over a full cup of resin, spilling half a cup of resin&hardener mixture onto the floor (thank God I had that cut-up plastic bag there!!!), and got a few dabs of resin&hardener on the carpet up by the edges of the carpet, however you can't see anything.

One thing I noticed was that getting the mold up off the tape was kind of hard, even though I did use some petroleum jelly. So when I pulled out the molds, I pulled out the mold AND the tape....lol

Another thing is you shouldn't skimp out on the edges - when the edges get hard and you still got fiberglass strands that are partially resined, you see why they call it fiberglass....lol

Well next step is to trim it, but still waiting for my 542 bit, so as for now....step one is done.

Gauntlet
04-10-2004, 05:04 AM
What brand of resin, and how many layers did you do? The ones in my pictures were 4 layers thick, that's why they're so dark...they look a lot lighter with just 1 layer.

sumone
04-10-2004, 06:03 PM
I used bondo fiberglass resin - the yellow&blue square gallon can. I only did one layer, and realize I should add at least another layer on to make it stronger. Also the funny part is I can distinguish the actual squares that I had cut up of the fiberglass.

ss3079
04-10-2004, 06:21 PM
Do at least two layers.

I used two mainly because there was no air bubbles to sacrifice the strength of the piece and not a lot of completely flat places that were large.

I suggest doing a minimum of two layers. If you have to stretch your fleece a lot, it will bend the ends. Can't go wrong with 3-4 layers --- do it right the first time ;)

- Steve