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tuckermitchell
08-08-2012, 06:06 PM
First of all, I'm a long time lurker though this will be my first post. Oh HI! Before I get flamed, I did do some searching for the answer to these questions and got many differing opinions and I wanted to centralize my answers if possible.

Here's the deal-

I have a 93 Civic beater that I use for travel for work. I drive ~600 miles a week and I'm just trying to upgrade the system a little to improve sound quality while maintaining a low price and a disinterest from others of breaking into my car and stealing my ****.

So far, I have the following things that I've collected in trade or bought for a great price over the last month.

Pioneer Premier PRS-D2200T Amp
150x2 at 4ohm
300x2 at 2 ohm
600x1 at 4 bridged
(Paid $60 bucks for it at an estate sale last weekend. I feel like I did good on this purchase.)

Boston G310 10" Subwoofer
4 ohm DVC
375RMS

RE RE 12D4 12" Sub (This sub is old, like 5 or 6 years it's been in my basement being unused.)
4 ohm SVC
175 RMS



As far as the headunit goes, I'm set on purchasing the JVC KD-X80BT. I don't need a CD player and this will do bluetooth fine. I like the deck and it should have everything included that I will ever need from it. I don't need a very high end deck as far as I see for what I'm looking to accomplish.

As far as components, I'd like to find some kind of inexpensive set for the front doors. I've already deadened the doors and they are ready for speakers. I have the panels without the tweeters so I will be adding those in.

I would really like to just build a box for the Boston sub, run that off of one channel and then run a component set passively off the others if it is possible. I know the amp has plenty of power, I just don't know if the wiring is able to do this.

If this amp won't work to do that, I have an Eclipse 36401 4 channel that I can pickup for $40 bucks off a buddy since he owes me on some parts. I really don't want to go dual amps if possible but if it's my only option I will. I believe that amp does something like 45x4 at 4ohms.

Also, if I do go with the 4 channel, that opens up my options for power and I am curious if I can put a set of mid bass in the rear deck and not mess up the sound staging horribly. I'm not a trained ear by any stretch but I don't want this to sound like trash either.

Finally, what is a great set of budget components I should look at. I'm open to anything, even used, if they are a good deal and are going to last.

Thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to answer these questions.

zako
08-08-2012, 06:23 PM
For the head unit I would recommend Sony sony DSX-S310BTX. It has more advanced qualization, but more importantly time alignment, which is a big step up from having no time alignment. For the speakers, I'd suggest to try the new JBL MS-series component speakers. I have seen two reviews, and both suggest these are outstanding for the money.

JBL MS62C Two-Way Component Speakers - Speakers - Talk Audio Online Car Audio Magazine & Forum - Talk Audio Online Car Audio Magazine & Forum - Magazine (http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/index.php/index.html/_/reviews/speakers/jbl-ms62c-two-way-component-speakers-r1172)
JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me! - DIYMA Car Audio Forum (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/129512-jbl-ms-62c-first-impressions-these-surprised-hell-out-me.html)

If the specs are anywhere near, your Pioneer is a very good amplifier. Run your front speakers with the front channels, use the other two bridged to power subwoofer. Getting the correct box type for your Boston Acoustics subwoofer may be tricky. Maybe others would know about this. You can also connect a set of rear speakers to stereo's amplifier if you would like to entertain passengers every once in a while.

tuckermitchell
08-08-2012, 06:25 PM
Thanks for the reply. I think you misread the post though, as the amp is only a two channel. This is why I am curious if I can run a passive set at 2 ohm and still maintain sound quality of if they have to be run on separate channels. I'll look into the head unit you recommend.

mylows10
08-08-2012, 06:47 PM
For the head unit I would recommend Sony sony DSX-S310BTX. It has more advanced qualization, but more importantly time alignment, which is a big step up from having no time alignment. For the speakers, I'd suggest to try the new JBL MS-series component speakers. I have seen two reviews, and both suggest these are outstanding for the money.

JBL MS62C Two-Way Component Speakers - Speakers - Talk Audio Online Car Audio Magazine & Forum - Talk Audio Online Car Audio Magazine & Forum - Magazine (http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/index.php/index.html/_/reviews/speakers/jbl-ms62c-two-way-component-speakers-r1172)
JBL MS-62c First impressions. These surprised the hell out of me! - DIYMA Car Audio Forum (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/129512-jbl-ms-62c-first-impressions-these-surprised-hell-out-me.html)

If the specs are anywhere near, your Pioneer is a very good amplifier. Run your front speakers with the front channels, use the other two bridged to power subwoofer. Getting the correct box type for your Boston Acoustics subwoofer may be tricky. Maybe others would know about this. You can also connect a set of rear speakers to stereo's amplifier if you would like to entertain passengers every once in a while.
well where to start .first off most sony decks as of now are pretty much garbage,the boston sub will not work on the pioneer amp.dual 4 ohm will be 8 ohm or 2,the amp will not do 2 ohm mono .so what you may wanna do is look for a cheap mono block amp for the sub.maybe sell the other sub to help fund the new amp .use the pioneer amp on the frt components ,if you want rear speaker sound just run them off the hu power .and we will need a budget for components .

tuckermitchell
08-08-2012, 06:54 PM
I was under the impression the Sony decks were garbage. I've always owned Alpine or JVC and been happy with both. Budget for the components would be around $125 tops. Realistically, cost is not an issue but I am not looking for building a multi thousand dollar system in a daily driver beater car. I can still buy this eclipse amp (36401) and run the components on it. How bout the rear deck question? Could I run mid woofers in there to round the sound out a bit more? I had a stereo built for my tahoe by a friend who has since moved and the difference in the sound from a 2 way passive system to a 3 way active was significant enough that I'd like to find a way to do it anyways. I'm just not exactly stereo 101 guy.

mylows10
08-08-2012, 06:57 PM
yes you can run the mid woofer there ,and i can sell or recommend some decent comps in your price range

Alrojoca
08-08-2012, 08:05 PM
That Pioneer amp can drive the 10 inch Boston Sub with plenty of power and no issues if you bridge it, then I would get a 4 channel amp to drive the fronts and maybe some 6 1/2 inch mid bass drivers for the rear, you may get away by running the rears active with no passive crossovers. Maybe some drivers from parts express or who knows, hard to find efficient raw drivers.

zako
08-08-2012, 08:14 PM
well where to start .first off most sony decks as of now are pretty much garbage

I would disagree. Not much better or worse than Kenwood, JVC, non-premier Pioneer, etc. I tinkered with similar priced Pioneer and JVC in the store and I am not convinced that those are any better built. All are probably made in China by quasi-slave labor. The poster looks for budget unit, and this unit should fit the bill. I have seen several happy reviews of the DSX media players by users and in magazines.

mylows10
08-08-2012, 08:37 PM
cool ,just dont see any one using or buying them,much. funny thing is tho ,sony has the patent on the cd laser and dvd laser.so every deck and dvd unit has the sony laser .

quackhead
08-08-2012, 09:32 PM
I was under the impression the Sony decks were garbage. I've always owned Alpine or JVC and been happy with both. Budget for the components would be around $125 tops. Realistically, cost is not an issue but I am not looking for building a multi thousand dollar system in a daily driver beater car. I can still buy this eclipse amp (36401) and run the components on it. How bout the rear deck question? Could I run mid woofers in there to round the sound out a bit more? I had a stereo built for my tahoe by a friend who has since moved and the difference in the sound from a 2 way passive system to a 3 way active was significant enough that I'd like to find a way to do it anyways. I'm just not exactly stereo 101 guy.

tuckermitchell, I would pick up the 4 ch Eclipse if I were you...they are a very good amp and clean for the front stage. You will not find a decent 300 to 500 watt Monoblock for less than @$160. If you bridge the Pioneer to 300watts rms at 8 ohms mono, then you will be pretty much on par with the 375 watt power handling of the Boston sub, which is a very good sub and deserves quality A/B power anyways. That Pioneer Premier is a very good amp too. This set up should not strain your electrical. You will wire the Boston's voice coils in series to the bridged Pioneer and 300 watts rms will be perfect for it.


Be very careful about taking any advice from Vendors on this site trying to peddle their wares. Personally, It is hard for me to trust honest advice from anyone standing to gain monetarily from that advice....There are very good, trustworthy sources on the internet for reasonable prices on just about any name brand audio equipment available for people on a budget. I know with me, as long as it works the way it is supposed to and I get a good deal, I am good.....even better when buying brand new equipment that may be last years model, but still warrantied by the Store I buy from for at least 1 or 2 yrs. Even free replacement warranties are available from some online retailers for a few bucks..
I am not saying you should not buy from vendors here patrolling the forums, trying to make a sale....but you should be granted the ability to make an informed purchase. I have used two of the four following online stores with complete satisfaction in my purchases
Some of the following also have additional savings coupons available through this website
Car Audio Stereo - Car Subwoofers - Car Amplifiers and Speakers (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/?affiliate=googadw&gclid=CPWcop-j2bECFaVNTAodQV4AdA)
Onlinecarstereo.com - Wholesale Car Audio/Stereo Deals At Bargain Prices (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/?gclid=CMb6uamj2bECFSGHtgodxhAA5w)
WoofersEtc.com - The Online Car Audio Superstore, the Largest Selection at the Lowest Prices! (http://www.woofersetc.com/)
MSW | Car Audio Stereo, Car Subwoofers, Car Amplifiers and Speakers (http://www.mobilesoundworks.com/)

Good luck in whatever you do.

tuckermitchell
08-08-2012, 11:59 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. I picked up the amp after my 10 year olds soccer practice tonight. I've decided on the JVC deck for sure and just purchased it online for 189 from Crutchfield. I did pay about 20 more than I could have elsewhere but I appreciate my ability to return and warranty if there are issues. Plus you get free stuff for the install anyways.

I assume that with this head unit I should be able to run my speakers semi actively right. I was thinking of something in the neighborhood of a 7" midwoofer from Dayton or something like that and then running a passive component setup in the front. Could it be possible to run a tweeter off the head unit power and go full active? I would even pay someone locally to tune it right for me, I'm just hoping I can set something up that will be quality in this car when I'm driving around all the time.

Finally, I've built sealed boxes before and I'm not into big, boomy systems. Would it be in my best interest to build a box that is ported though to get the full sound of that subwoofer?

Alrojoca
08-09-2012, 01:18 AM
Mmm based on the info I read and understand, you have 2 options:

1.Bridge the eclipse to have enough power to drive those jbl components since 40 watts @ 4 ohms is not going to give a good result with an 88 db spl component jbl set. Bridged you will give them about 120 watts each. Then get some efficient 6 1/2 drivers, maybe used from a broken component set, some with 92-93 db spl minimum, to have the HU drive them and give you louder sound, look into brands like Hertz dsk, infinity reference, even Polk db series, if you really just want good mid bass on the rear from the HU.

2. Get a set of very efficient clean sounding components, Hertz Dsk165, focals pulyglass, and just drive them with the eclipse unbridged with the 40 watts at 4 ohms, or get a set of JbL p660c, they are 2 ohms 93 db spl and will pull 60 watts @ 2 ohms from that eclipse. Then get the drivers just like in option 1 but drive them with the 40 watts to each of the rear channels with the eclipse, active xovers with the HU.

Option 2 is better if you can afford it and to have full amplification, those Dayton drivers may work in the rear but they will need power and they are not so cheap by the pair, running tweeters of the HU means you will loose, the full range front channels, not a good idea unless the HU can run RCA s and speakers at the same time just for the front channels.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

tuckermitchell
08-09-2012, 02:17 AM
I never bought the JBL set. Explain something to me though. What does "active crossover" mean in the way you are speaking? Wouldn't I need another two channels for the head unit to drive all 6 speakers correctly or do I use the passive crossovers on a front channel and still use the head unit to control them?

Also, just pulled the sub from the box and found that it is a SVC marked on the box and upon investigation of the woofer it is a single voice coil indeed. Glad I pay such close attention to things when I'm trading with friends. Either way, it shouldn't matter as the amp is good for 600x1 bridged and the sub is only rated at 375, so I have plenty of overhead.

Alrojoca
08-09-2012, 05:34 AM
I don't know what you mean by 6 speakers, *usually there are dash tweeters and 4 door speaker drivers, if you have 6 speakers in a factory set up *2 sets are hooked either in series or parallel since there are always 4 channels unless a sound processor is controlling 6 channels or the HU has 6 full range channels but I doubt it.

Dash tweeters are usually hooked in parallel with the front mid drivers. *When you change everything you use different speaker wiring coming from the amps.

The right way *I think is to set the HU xovers to send frequencies above 80hz *to the amp, setting the amps switch on flat, then the amp sends the sound to the passive component xovers then to the speaker components.

Going active would mean using *one 4 ch amp just to drive the tweeters and the mids for the front components, *not using the xover from the speaker manufacturer.
HU xover to amp (on flat setting) *then to the drivers using the amps front channels for the tweeters and the rear amp channels for the mids just to get your front speakers set on active you need a 4 ch amp. *By going active you are creating 4 channels out of 1 set of components, it is worth it but very complex to set up.

That is why I gave you the 2 options for your equipment, you could only go active for the rear mids with 2 channels since only mids are needed in the back and go passive with the front components, unless you want to get an extra amp to go active in the front.

zako
08-09-2012, 08:28 AM
Could it be possible to run a tweeter off the head unit power and go full active? I would even pay someone locally to tune it right for me, I'm just hoping I can set something up that will be quality in this car when I'm driving around all the time.

If you want to run active, you need a head unit (or external DSP) with active crossover such as Pioneer DEH-80PRS or Alpine CDA-117. This is worth every dollar. Personally, I would have preferred to have a head unit with time alignment coupled with a set of higher quality coaxial speakers, than run components without time alignment or fine level matching between tweeter and woofer. It seems like the mainstream car audio hasn't caught up with time alignment, but for me it's a big step in SQ IMO, and does things you won't get out of $500 speakers without it.

In this case, it looks like the head unit you got has neither active crossover or time alignment. So you can't run active. You can still bi-amp speakers. To do bi-amping, you need a tweeter crossover that's effectively separate from the woofer. I believe Alpine's latest Type-R speakers have this arrangement. The tweeter portion of the crossover is in a separate box, and can be disconnected from the woofer if necessary. These had been out since 2010/2011 or so and I haven't heard of many good reviews of these SPR-60C speakers though. Some mid-priced MB Quart and RF speakers have bi-amp crossovers, but I don't really know why I would want to buy them, considering something like the new JBL MS speakers have much better reviews. I am running a similar bi-amp setup with Hybrid Audio Imagine I61-2 speakers, with tweeter connected directly to the amplifier with a single inline 2.2uF capacitor active as tweeter's high pass filter. This works well because the components were designed to function this way (the crossover on the back of woofer uses the same capacitor). The whole point of going active is to have full control of every speaker, so you can adjust crossover setup, equalization, levels, and time alignment for each speaker in the car. So there is no big benefit in going active if you don't have a processor to accomplish these things. Only matching level of tweeter and woofer is something you can do without an advanced processor.

BTW Amazon sells the DSX-S310BTX for only $189 and sonicelectronix has it for similar price. I never had problems with returns with either vendor.

tuckermitchell
08-09-2012, 11:37 AM
First of all, thanks guys. The information you've given here has helped me tremendously. Alrojoca, what you wrote is what I thought you meant, I'm just not as up to date on technical jargon as you are. I will be using the passive xovers for the front speakers and putting midwoofers in the rear deck. I think I will be looking into the JBL set just because the polyglass seemed to be over 300 bucks in most cases and that just isn't worth it to me in this setup. As for mid woofers, I have no experience with Dayton but I read so many good things between this site and DIYMA that I think that they will likely be a solid choice. I'll be shopping around for them for the next week or so until I've saved the money for the components as well. I still need to mat and soundproof my trunk a little. I had some Dynamat extreme in my garage from my tahoe install and used that to do the doors of the car but I still want to do the floor and trunk area to make it a bit more solid.

One final question, if I were to take the odd shaped rear deck out of the honda and just build one out of 1/2" MDF and finish it, do you think that would be a good idea. The speaker mounts are curved and in my particular car the back dash is pretty haggard looking and could use some freshening up anyways. You guys are pretty dope, thanks for the help.

Alrojoca
08-09-2012, 02:10 PM
First of all, thanks guys. The information you've given here has helped me tremendously. Alrojoca, what you wrote is what I thought you meant, I'm just not as up to date on technical jargon as you are. I will be using the passive xovers for the front speakers and putting midwoofers in the rear deck. I think I will be looking into the JBL set just because the polyglass seemed to be over 300 bucks in most cases and that just isn't worth it to me in this setup. As for mid woofers, I have no experience with Dayton but I read so many good things between this site and DIYMA that I think that they will likely be a solid choice. I'll be shopping around for them for the next week or so until I've saved the money for the components as well. I still need to mat and soundproof my trunk a little. I had some Dynamat extreme in my garage from my tahoe install and used that to do the doors of the car but I still want to do the floor and trunk area to make it a bit more solid.

One final question, if I were to take the odd shaped rear deck out of the honda and just build one out of 1/2" MDF and finish it, do you think that would be a good idea. The speaker mounts are curved and in my particular car the back dash is pretty haggard looking and could use some freshening up anyways. You guys are pretty dope, thanks for the help.

Cool, my only concern was if the Eclipse had enough juice to run the JBL MS series @ 8 ohms and a set of Dayton's small woofers, they are good just need good power, Hopefully the Eclipse amp has under rated power and you may have to set the gains very high, hopefully it can handle the 4 volt RCA's from the JVC HU. If you went with the other JBL set I mentioned there will be less concerns about power and they can be found cheaper also. Like Zako said you cant go active with the JVC HU for the fronts since it just has a basic hi-low pass crossover, not a 2 way or 3 way like the other units Zaco mentioned, it get too complicated, the HAT components Zaco mentioned are good very efficient and very popular here on the forum. In any case, with the simple high low pass xover from the JVC you could filter the sound actively to the Dayton drivers but not the front components. I wish I knew more about box building, maybe someone else can give you advice on that.

Keep us posted and maybe post a few pics if you can.

tuckermitchell
08-12-2012, 08:00 PM
So, new news. Had soccer tournies for the kid the last couple days so couldn't check back. Had the eclipse tested by a local guy on Friday afternoon. Turns out two channels have some issue but he thinks its repairable so I left it with him. Also, in the meantime, through word of mouth in my extended network, I was offered a Fosgate Punch 700x for $75 bucks. Cosmetically, it's a 5/10 but I listened to it in the guys car and I know it works for the most part. Snapped it up. That gives me the following numbers to run comps and midwoofers:

87.5 x 4 at 4ohms
175x4 at 2 ohms
350 x 2 at 4 ohms bridged

After some more research last night and today I've decided to go with the JBL MS-62 component set. They have gotten really great reviews and I don't think that 165 is a terrible price for something I hope I am only going to buy once. Now, all I have to do is wait two more paydays to pick up enough mat to do the trunk and under the floor of the car. Again, I'm not going to build a competition system, but I want to eliminate as much noise as I can since my mini-me/flowmaster exhaust is kinda loud and civic's aren't exactly known for their deletion of road noise. I still need to get some midbass woofers of some sort as well. I'm going to build a small vented box and a sealed box, both to spec for the sub so that I can decide which I prefer. I'm hoping the single sub can keep up with the rest of these speakers now that they will be getting nearly 100W's each. I wish I could get a solid idea of what hertz range I should be looking for in the midbass department. I'm assuming something in the neighborhood of 50-1000hz or the like no? Understand, I'm learning this stuff on the fly but I'm excited to do this right and get to installing.

Oh, also, does it really matter what RCA's I purchase. They can get so crazy expensive and I'm not necessarily sure they are worth the money or not in my daily driver case. I'll be buying everything from KnuKonceptz when I get the wiring including everything to move my battery to the trunk in the meantime.

Alrojoca
08-13-2012, 12:01 AM
glad you decided to get more power for those MS fronts, thet will need it and thank you for it too. The frequency for the mids is something you need to experiment with, most drivers smaller than 8 inches may not work good under 80 hz.

The Knu Karma RCas are fairly priced for great sound. You could go with mono price RCAs , cheaper and almost as good as some Canare RcAs I made from a microphone cable and another set I made from a guitar cable, really kicked a** on a home stereo for my cd player, significantly more bass than standard cables.
The only issue with the mono price cables is that they are bulky, take a lot of space since they are thick.

Let us know and keep us updated, thanks for the recent update also.

winkychevelle
08-13-2012, 12:30 AM
i would suggest posting this again later tomorrow the guys on here right now arent giving you really any useful advice and i normally see much better advice being givin.

personally i would take the premier amp bridge it like quackhead said on the boston at 8ohm. put the boston in a slightly larger than recommended box and enjoy decent bass. if you want more you can always get a better amp later.

as for the deck i actually like the jvc line though it doesnt allow active or time-alignment its still a nice unit. the deh-80prs is a great budget unit for people who like to tweek their sound.

as far as components i make be wrong but you may be limited here by mounting depth. if not so much i would look into memphis highs they are all super efficient and i havent had any problem with mine in the past. generally components allow you to move you staging around much easier by just moving the tweeters but coaxials can rival components if mounted correctly. and if just achieving a louder system is what you want components arent necessary.

back door/deck speakers are a waste to me so im not much help here but i do know many people have had great success with running a midrange in the back and turning it down so it doesnt mess up the front stage.

for amp kits i would look at Amp Installation Kits, HDMI Cables (http://www.knukonceptz.com) for good budget ampkits try and stay away from the cheap kca line unless money really is that tight.

i am not a vender or even a shop owner/employee but i have worked at a couple shops and i hate seeing people get screwed and taken advantage of main reason i dont work at a shop any more

Alrojoca
08-13-2012, 01:48 AM
For the record the same good advice was given on post #7 (http://www.caraudio.com/forums/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=7) earlier. Tucker you made up your mind on the JBL ms62's, great choice you will not regret that.

Wiring a dual 4 sub to 8 ohms is not a good match when an amp does not even have power ratings for that load or maybe not even designed to work with that load. Maybe Winky can explain the technical reason for that suggestion and how the amp will deliver more power that way. I will be happy to learn a lesson from a pro.

tuckermitchell
08-13-2012, 01:56 AM
I pulled the box out and found it was marked a single voice coil sub. Looked at the sub physically again and indeed it is. I took this on trade from someone so I went and had it tested with the amp. No problems, but it is indeed a 4 ohm SVC sub. Shouldn't be a problem then on either amp, and the beauty as far as I see it is if I want a bit more power, I can always rearrange things to put two channels from the fosgate on it instead and get the extra ~50 watts of power, though I doubt that I will do that.