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bmwx3
07-01-2012, 12:03 PM
Hello, i have just had a cz702a clarion head unit installed in my bmwx3 and its really good but i don't understand how digital time alignment works, it doesn't explain it in the user manual and the installer didn't know either, can anyone explain how it works?

the measurement system is 0 - 501.4cm per speaker whatever that means.:confused:

VisceralSound
07-01-2012, 12:04 PM
If I remember correctly its how far away the speaker is from the driver, so you set it how you want/like.

smgreen20
07-01-2012, 03:59 PM
Your furthest speaker should have 0 delay as it will be the last to "hit" your ears. The closest should have the most delay. The object is to have the sound from all speakers arrive at your ears at the same time. I'm limited on time right now to do the search, but google time alignment and you'll find what/how to do the math to get you in the ballpark. the rest is actually how it sounds to your ears.

bmwx3
07-01-2012, 10:15 PM
So the moral of the story is the closer the speakers to yourself the more you add delay i take it.

for example i should leave all speakers at 0 and add between 0-501.4 for the drivers speaker.

winkychevelle
07-01-2012, 10:20 PM
So the moral of the story is the closer the speakers to yourself the more you add delay i take it.

for example i should leave all speakers at 0 and add between 0-501.4 for the drivers speaker.

you front drivers side should have the most delay followed by usually the passenger front then the drivers rear and leave the passenger rear at 0

but its really up to your ears

keep_hope_alive
07-01-2012, 10:22 PM
what i do is create an excel table that tells me what the difference in distance is between the closest speaker and every other speaker.

so, for each channel, measure the distance from your head to the speaker voice coil. then figure out the difference between each speaker relative to the shortest distance. that is what you use in the head unit for settings.

after that, you can tweak to shift the sound stage in horizontal and vertical position. this is best done with a test disc, like the IASCA discs. using any random song isn't useful. if you don't have a test disc, you can listen to some select songs on a home reference system, where you can sit perfectly equidistant between some nice monitors. then take notes on the sound stage (instrument placement, singer and backup singer placement, etc). then listen in the car.

i've found it's best to start with measurements, then tweak from there.

keep_hope_alive
07-01-2012, 10:34 PM
here is my spreadsheet
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/timedelaycalcs-1.jpg

"mono" delay is for two seats. equal left and right T/A.

then i tweak from there.

whitedragon551
07-01-2012, 10:36 PM
Taken from the Eclipse manual:

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p187/whitedragon5515/Car%20Audio/TimeAlignmentEquation.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p187/whitedragon5515/Car%20Audio/AlpineTimeAlignment.jpg

keep_hope_alive
07-01-2012, 10:40 PM
things that throw off the sound stage and make the measurement method inaccurate:

*specular reflections off glass
*poor crossover point choices
*inaccurate level setting
*speaker aiming/off-axis response/grill attenuation
*diffraction due to mounting

bmwx3
07-02-2012, 02:49 AM
Actually my drivers side rear is located up near the inside top hinge of the door so its actually closer than the drivers front to my head, currently im experimenting. To be honest i have no idea if any of the other stuff you mention is OK or not, the manuals for these are not what i call user freindly, infact i also have no clue how the adjustment of the custom equaliser works but ill leave that for another day i think.

whitedragon551
07-02-2012, 03:58 AM
For anyone who wants the KHA spreadsheet you can download it here:

KHA_Time_Dela_-Calculator2012.xls (http://www.pc-babble.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/KHA_Time_Dela_-Calculator2012.xls)

trumpet
07-02-2012, 04:06 PM
Clarion got clever and did their time alignment in in/cm instead of ms, so people don't have to do the conversion. Keep this in mind when following instructions from a different manufacturer.

bmwx3
07-03-2012, 03:27 AM
So whats the theory with cm?

Feel free to give an example.

OldManBass
05-09-2013, 01:14 PM
here is my spreadsheet
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/timedelaycalcs-1.jpg

"mono" delay is for two seats. equal left and right T/A.

then i tweak from there.

Sorry to bring a dead thread back to life... but... what is the formula for mono delay? This would optimize TA for driver and passenger correct?

I download the spreadsheet, but the mono isn't included.

Thanks!

keep_hope_alive
05-09-2013, 02:55 PM
Sorry to bring a dead thread back to life... but... what is the formula for mono delay? This would optimize TA for driver and passenger correct?

I download the spreadsheet, but the mono isn't included.

Thanks!

the mono delay is just equal left and right and based on pathlength differences to the driver's side relative to the driver's seat. an alternative method is to base it on pathlength differences of the passenger side relative to the driver's seat. experiment.

OldManBass
05-09-2013, 11:52 PM
the mono delay is just equal left and right and based on pathlength differences to the driver's side relative to the driver's seat. an alternative method is to base it on pathlength differences of the passenger side relative to the driver's seat. experiment.

I'm putting together an active front stage with raw drivers for the first time shortly... and I'm pretty noob with time alignment... don't be surprised if I PM with a question or two... hope that's ok :)

keep_hope_alive
05-10-2013, 01:00 AM
I'm putting together an active front stage with raw drivers for the first time shortly... and I'm pretty noob with time alignment... don't be surprised if I PM with a question or two... hope that's ok :)

pm anytime