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View Full Version : fourth order for apxx18?



RangerDangerV2
06-25-2012, 11:19 PM
so I will def be doing a new enclosure for my 18... and a fourth order came to mind..
heres what I was thinking.
3 cubes sealed ( sub inverted)
7 cubes ported
tuned to 45
Idk much about these so any help is appreciated... and what should I go with for port area??

Falcons
06-25-2012, 11:22 PM
make up your mind jakeapotamus

RangerDangerV2
06-25-2012, 11:25 PM
make up your mind jakeapotamus

im very indescisive but Im going with a fourth order for sure this time.

---------- Post added at 10:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------

and does 6 cu ft ported sound good instead of 7?? Moble Enclosurs Buck pro rabbitt

Buck
06-25-2012, 11:34 PM
Post up t/s of said woofer.

RangerDangerV2
06-25-2012, 11:40 PM
UNITS APXX10D2 APXX12D2 APXX15D1 APXX18D1
Revc (ohms ) 1.00 3.60 1.80 2.00
Fo (Hz) 45.06 42.20 39.80 38.34
Sd (sqM) .0330 .0550 0.089 .1195
Bl (TM) 17.94 37.66 27.11 26.88
SPLo (dB) 91.92 94.34 95.46 97.10
Xmax (mm) 10 10 10 10
Dvc (mm) 75.00 75.00 75.00 75.00

Qms (m.q.) 6.31 2.83 3.12 5.81
Qes (e.q.) 0.106 .133 .175 .187
Qts (totQ) 0.105 .127 .165 .181
Vas (liter) 18.57 31 63 112
Cms (uM-N) 120 72. 56 55.2
Mms (gram) 141 197 285 312

Buck
06-26-2012, 12:18 AM
Um, I would strongly recommend against a 4th.

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 12:21 AM
Um, I would strongly recommend against a 4th.

why?? my teamate has the same sub and he put his in a fourth order... he does 148 out of his trunk on music...

CAT MAN
06-26-2012, 12:21 AM
Um, I would strongly recommend against a 4th.

not completely.i would reccomend a 4:1. but like jake said earlier....

Buck
06-26-2012, 12:25 AM
Low xmax, really high EBP (depending on accuracy of t/s parameters), I still think a different enclosure would work better.

Doing a 148 out of a trunk is just that, we don't know what your goals are.

CAT MAN
06-26-2012, 12:26 AM
Low xmax, really high EBP (depending on accuracy of t/s parameters), I still think a different enclosure would work better.

Doing a 148 out of a trunk is just that, we don't know what your goals are.

he knows im a meter chaser sooo.... lol

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 12:28 AM
xmax is actually 20 peak to peak sooooo....

---------- Post added at 11:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 PM ----------

and I would like to meter high but I am leaning more towards groundpounding...

splwj47
06-26-2012, 12:28 AM
whats with the low xmax?

Buck
06-26-2012, 12:29 AM
Yes, it still doesn't change that the xmax is relatively low.

I feel like doing a 4th is just like trying to take a prius off road, you can do it but it'll be difficult.

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 12:30 AM
whats with the low xmax?

20ml is low?? seems avg to me... atomic doesnt rate peak to peak boyz they rate it one way...

splwj47
06-26-2012, 12:32 AM
20ml is low?? seems avg to me... atomic doesnt rate peak to peak boyz they rate it one way...

im looking at the specs on the site i thought the apxx had a 4 inch coil? the site says 3.

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 12:34 AM
im looking at the specs on the site i thought the apxx had a 4 inch coil? the site says 3.

yes mine does... so those arent the exact ts parameters but it is the closest thing as they dont list them on their list for the 4"vc...

splwj47
06-26-2012, 12:39 AM
u got enough room in the back of that ranger for a 4th order?

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 12:42 AM
u got enough room in the back of that ranger for a 4th order?

yep, as long as I do what I did in the original post... I could even go a little bigger...

kushy_dreams
06-26-2012, 12:45 AM
xmax is actually 20 peak to peak sooooo.....

xmax is always measured as one way, xmech is usually measured in p2p

that sub is meant for spl with the high fs, low qts, low xmax and high bl

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 12:48 AM
xmax is always measured as one way, xmech is usually measured in p2p

that sub is meant for spl with the high fs, low qts, low xmax and high bl

so, in other words, bad for a 4th order... ***** really want one...

kushy_dreams
06-26-2012, 12:52 AM
so, in other words, bad for a 4th order... ***** really want one...

Maybe look into a horn, I know woofers with a qts below 20 work well in horns but that is for a flat response. Also its hard to get low bass out of something with below a qts of .2 so I would look into woofers with a low fs, that are designed to get low, that is if you wanting to build a ground pounder.

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 12:56 AM
Maybe look into a horn, I know woofers with a qts below 20 work well in horns but that is for a flat response. Also its hard to get low bass out of something with below a qts of .2 so I would look into woofers with a low fs, that are designed to get low, that is if you wanting to build a ground pounder.

those arent even the corect ts parameters, and atomic built mine for daily and spl so I hope it will fair well in a fourth... wish I could find the ts specs on it....

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 01:20 AM
sorry, thought I clicked on enclousre help and design... posted in wrong section like a noob.. lol but what about a 6th order??

Phoenix Risen
06-26-2012, 01:31 AM
if you could find someone around you with a wt2 or DATS that could pull tsp's that would be best, the info would be much more accurate.

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 01:37 AM
if you could find someone around you with a wt2 or DATS that could pull tsp's that would be best, the info would be much more accurate.

I may just buy one, only 100 bucks...

hispls
06-26-2012, 01:56 AM
Why do you feel you need bandpass alignment?

What do you think that will do for you?

You do realize that trying to put a sub with unknown parameters in a complex box is a recipe for failure?

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 01:59 AM
Why do you feel you need bandpass alignment?

What do you think that will do for you?

You do realize that trying to put a sub with unknown parameters in a complex box is a recipe for failure?

yes I do.... but I was a noob and still am when I designed my first box and I have still not come even close to being good at designing....

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 02:03 AM
fvck it... ill wait till i go full power and see what my box can actually do.

hispls
06-26-2012, 02:10 AM
Ported alignment is much more forgiving and most of the subs with stiff suspension and huge motor do well enough in DD spec box.

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 02:16 AM
Ported alignment is much more forgiving and most of the subs with stiff suspension and huge motor do well enough in DD spec box.

sorry but what does DD mean?? digital designs?? my box right now is 5.7 cu ft tuned to 40hz with 4 4 inch aeros... what do you think?? decent for that sub? even though no ts parameters are given...

hispls
06-26-2012, 10:52 AM
sorry but what does DD mean?? digital designs?? my box right now is 5.7 cu ft tuned to 40hz with 4 4 inch aeros... what do you think?? decent for that sub? even though no ts parameters are given...

DD Audio: The DD Box | DD Audio (http://www.ddaudio.com/tech-support/dd-box-system/the-dd-box.aspx)

I've had mixed results with multiple round ports.

Have you considered just going larger on the box and larger on the port with a big slot port? 6-8 cube seems to be what most 18's do well with.

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 11:20 AM
DD Audio: The DD Box | DD Audio (http://www.ddaudio.com/tech-support/dd-box-system/the-dd-box.aspx)

I've had mixed results with multiple round ports.

Have you considered just going larger on the box and larger on the port with a big slot port? 6-8 cube seems to be what most 18's do well with.

the new plan was to go about 6 cu ft net with about 160 sq inches of port... I would like to keep it on the smaller side to keep the rise down and I do plan on upgrading power soon anyways... and it needs to be under the window line...

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 11:22 AM
and thank you for the useful posts btw.

mazdakid
06-26-2012, 11:22 AM
You sure your box now is at 40? How long are your ports?

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 11:27 AM
You sure your box now is at 40? How long are your ports?

12 inches.

hispls
06-26-2012, 11:37 AM
the new plan was to go about 6 cu ft net with about 160 sq inches of port... I would like to keep it on the smaller side to keep the rise down and I do plan on upgrading power soon anyways... and it needs to be under the window line...

So what do you rise to now? What frequency? What coil do you have and what amp(s) do you plan to run?

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 11:40 AM
So what do you rise to now? What frequency? What coil do you have and what amp(s) do you plan to run?

i havent run full power yet due to the fact that my alt isnt here yet. havent clamped it yet to see what rise is, just kind of went with the rule of thumb that most people see about 1+ for rise... coil is 4" dont know the brand but it is whatever atomic uses. and I am thinking either ns1 or dc 7.5 for power.

Below20hzonly
06-26-2012, 12:11 PM
a single 18 can handle that much?
i havent run full power yet due to the fact that my alt isnt here yet. havent clamped it yet to see what rise is, just kind of went with the rule of thumb that most people see about 1+ for rise... coil is 4" dont know the brand but it is whatever atomic uses. and I am thinking either ns1 or dc 7.5 for power.

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 12:13 PM
a single 18 can handle that much?

in the correct enclosure yes, but it will be wired at 2 for daily and .5 for burpz.

Below20hzonly
06-26-2012, 12:17 PM
nice nice well got luck man should be crazy loud, i just heard a custom built 18 yesterday powered by a kicker 2500.1 in a older caddillac ecalade and everything in the entire vehicle was shaking like ive never seen before, the guy who had the system is a vendor for a couple of different companies.
in the correct enclosure yes, but it will be wired at 2 for daily and .5 for burpz.

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 12:19 PM
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q513/bumpin101/Capture-3.png
5.2 cu ft net tuned to 36 with 128sq inches of port. under the window line too so thats a plus.

Below20hzonly
06-26-2012, 12:39 PM
looks sweet

kushy_dreams
06-26-2012, 01:15 PM
i havent run full power yet due to the fact that my alt isnt here yet. havent clamped it yet to see what rise is, just kind of went with the rule of thumb that most people see about 1+ for rise... coil is 4" dont know the brand but it is whatever atomic uses. and I am thinking either ns1 or dc 7.5 for power.

Idk where you saw that- look around, most people are getting 2-3x rise of what their nominal wiring is.

bhsdriller
06-26-2012, 03:02 PM
i havent run full power yet due to the fact that my alt isnt here yet. havent clamped it yet to see what rise is, just kind of went with the rule of thumb that most people see about 1+ for rise... coil is 4" dont know the brand but it is whatever atomic uses. and I am thinking either ns1 or dc 7.5 for power.

wasn't asking for brand of coil...is it a d1,d2,d4?

and rise can be crazy high for most people

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 03:06 PM
wasn't asking for brand of coil...is it a d1,d2,d4?

and rise can be crazy high for most people
sorry.. its d1. what do you think about the new design??

bhsdriller
06-26-2012, 03:24 PM
subs forward/port up works good in ext. cabs
Not too familiar with atomic subs, but the design looks good. Lots of port

Phoenix Risen
06-26-2012, 04:12 PM
that sub should do pretty well in that, subs up port side can do a lot of damage in them as well. like 149+ with a single 12 damage...

bhsdriller
06-26-2012, 04:25 PM
forgot about that orientation....local shop out here has 4 tang bang 8's off a jl 1000 doing 48's in a ranger

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 08:33 PM
hmm... port side would be cool.. Im thinking drivers side because meter is on passenger side, but I dont think it will have enough clearance... so sub forward port up it is... Im gonna go full power soon, Ill test this first box that I am running right now, and then Ill test the other one...

RangerDangerV2
06-26-2012, 09:00 PM
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q513/bumpin101/Capture-5.png
changed it to sub forward port up... its above the window line now but thats fine I guess....

hispls
06-26-2012, 11:35 PM
I can't immagine why you are worried about impedence rise if you plan to play music and your box is tuned to 36hz.

Also have fun running a single sub on 6K... I hope you're good at reconesq

Moble Enclosurs
07-11-2012, 10:54 AM
whats with the low xmax?

This is in relation to the sensitivity of the subs. Notice that the sensitivity is over 97dB. This balances the need for high excursion, but also does point to the fact that control is needed for these subs, and high efficiency is needed as well. Metering, and audible performance are two VERY different measurable instances. An SA8 can do 50+, but the audible passband will suffer greatly, UNLESS your preference is for a peaky response. 4th orders can actually give a wonderful passband if it is designed around the transfer function and resonance sensitivity of the environment and STILL get great number results, but you have to be careful of the limitations. Blocking a sub from broadband output with a high sensitivity rating is generally frowned upon and direct propagation is nominally a better choice.
That is why I would revert from a 4th in this case.....not due to TS parameters. You will get more use out of it with the design you have shown us beyond the quote I am referring to now. Much better choice than a 4th for this particular driver for those reasons.

XMAX is merely a make-up parameter for low sensitivity. I can take a pro audio driver and extend its output to that of a comp sub any day with the right enclosure even though xmax is a major limitation in that driver selection, and do it with half+ the power, as long as we have the right room available. That is one of the huge limitations we have in car audio, is the room. By the forced low efficiency driven from dimensional limits, we are forced to use higher excursion drivers to obtain the same output in a smaller space. Look at the 8" velodyne SPL-8 sub for example..the power this thing actually produces relies on resonance control, due to the fact that it is sealed and has the ability to create enough pressure due to the high excursion driver used. Put any other driver in there with less xmax and higher sensitivity, and it would not perform as well....due to the nature of the design, hence the name.
In car audio, we deal with the same limitations of size. SO, for this particular sub, the apxx you are referring to, if you have the room for it to operate properly and DO NOT constrain it, you will get great results regardless of its excursion limits, seeing that it still has a nominal excursion capability of most 10s, it will suffice as a decent diver in the right box, and will operate similar to 3-4 10s in the same space virtually, giving more room for the box to do its job. Just giving you my two cents on the situation.