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View Full Version : Sundown : Revisiting Component Sets (Mid-Level)



sundownz
05-18-2012, 11:44 AM
I did some early prototyping around this time last year on some mid-level sets and they were quite good, IMO... I decided to re-evaluate them a bit based on the listening I've had with them since that time.

I received the first early prototype of the new mid-level set a few days ago and I will be replacing the 2011 prototypes in my car with these soon.

The biggest change is the cone material... for a set like this that crosses over higher I prefer a paper base vs. the composite base (woven material) that the other set utilized.

The set is NOT done as I plan to modify the frame on the mid as well as the motor ventilation. There will be no fancy eye-candy to the set -- very basic cosmetically with as much focus on the actual sound as possible.

Once I finalize the details I will talk more about the pricing level on them. For the level of sound quality that I am shooting for it will be very fair.

Here are the photos of the early set :

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/CIMG6260.JPG
* The crossovers use an "open tool" plastic housing but do offer some nice features; 12, 6, or full range slope on the mid LPF and also 0, -3, and -6 tweeter level adjustment. The grilles will remain a very basic model that offers good protection with little sonic interference.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/CIMG6262.JPG
* Fairly standard silk dome tweeter; no frills but a nice sounding unit that is not harsh.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/CIMG6263.JPG
* I really like this cone material... very smooth and natural sound.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/CIMG6264.JPG
* This basket and motor are not vented at all on this early set -- that will change for thermal and acoustic reasons.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/CIMG6265.JPG
* High quality spider with tight weave utilized

I will work on the packaging a little bit but I don't plan to make it super fancy and waste money where there is no performance gain to be had.

Once I feel the design is final I will be able to give an ETA -- as of now I cannot give one.

loudwhat?
05-18-2012, 11:53 AM
when are you putting them in your VW?

nateberrier
05-18-2012, 11:54 AM
All function, no fashion baby. Hopefully you dont feel the same about your women though ^_6

sundownz
05-18-2012, 11:54 AM
when are you putting them in your VW?

Maybe this weekend.

Goindef154
05-18-2012, 01:45 PM
Look great man, glad you're coming out with some :D. Any possibility of them having an empty middle to turn it into a coax? Not sure what the technical term is for that particular mod.

hispls
05-18-2012, 01:53 PM
About time you get working on some components. What sort of power range are these being designed towards?

Head's up for an email coming your way.

Popwarhomie
05-18-2012, 07:36 PM
Sweet. I wantz! Hoping for under $200.

sundownz
05-23-2012, 10:04 AM
http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Cast_Frame.jpg

Here is the frame I will be using on the set (cast aluminum) -- as I said initially this first prototype is mainly to test / verify the cone material performs like I want it to. This frame is only a few millimeters deeper than the stamped unit... total depth is going to be about ~66mm which is 2.59"

I am also thickening the back plate, doing some small motor modifications, and adding ventilation to the back plate as well to help relieve pressure / back-wave reflections and to keep coil temperatures down.

I'll be putting the initial set in my car shortly... then I will be getting the revised midranges as quickly as possible. Once I verify everything we should be ready to roll soon after on production assuming it all checks out in my testing.

Also... I expect MAP price from a dealer to come in under $200

---------- Post added at 09:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 AM ----------


Look great man, glad you're coming out with some :D. Any possibility of them having an empty middle to turn it into a coax? Not sure what the technical term is for that particular mod.

I am not planning to make this set a "convertible" (as some mfg call it)

I may do a dedicated coax later, though.

---------- Post added at 09:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 AM ----------


About time you get working on some components. What sort of power range are these being designed towards?

Head's up for an email coming your way.

Likely rated for ~125 RMS

SPLaudio
05-23-2012, 04:20 PM
i see you selling many sets ,stock up :)

sundownz
05-23-2012, 06:17 PM
That is the plan! Lots of pent up demand as folks have been on us for years to make a component set. The time is right now, though, I think :)

DARKHART
05-23-2012, 07:12 PM
Lots of pent up demand as folks have been on us for years to make a component set


Yes I have!!...oophs...did I type that outloud..hehehehehe

sundownz
06-02-2012, 09:41 AM
Making some progress on the finalized mid... the cone material turned out great on the first sample so we've moved onto the rest of the details :

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Mid_Cone_SML.jpg
* Cone mounted on the new frame

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Mid_Side_SML.jpg
* Side view with the cast frame

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Mid_Rear_SML.jpg
* Gap venting implemented... the finish is NOT final it is only for sampling.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Mid_Finish_Final_SML.jpg
* The final finish will be smooth with chrome plating... will look VERY nice and also will be very corrosion resistant.

tylork92
06-02-2012, 12:57 PM
looking good.

TheUnderFighter
06-02-2012, 01:38 PM
Me like.

sundownz
06-06-2012, 02:59 PM
Response graphs of the mid (with off axis) and the tweeter -- the thick vertical line represents the crossover frequency. As you can see it is very appropriate on this set to get a nice response from both drivers :

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Response_Set.jpg

We will measure them in my car too once the new mid arrives.

sundownz
06-06-2012, 05:52 PM
I should have the midrange final prototype in my hands on Monday... assuming it is 100% to my liking I will announce pre-order pricing as we have already started to get materials together for the tweeter, crossover, etc.

Popwarhomie
06-06-2012, 06:31 PM
Looks good. I'll be ready for the pre order.

sundownz
06-08-2012, 11:00 AM
http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Tweeter_Off_Axis.jpg

Here is the tweeter plot with off axis included.

Towncar
06-14-2012, 12:47 AM
http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Tweeter_Off_Axis.jpg

Here is the tweeter plot with off axis included.

Im hoping this set can handle some decent power.. Any updates on pre order and ect?

CAT MAN
06-14-2012, 12:54 AM
in for pricing

sundownz
06-14-2012, 09:17 AM
Im hoping this set can handle some decent power.. Any updates on pre order and ect?

As far as a set in it's class power handling will be up there due to the thermal considerations put into the design; vented former, vented frame, and even direct gap venting in the back plate. Official ratings will be conservative based on "worst case" as always -- but I will be testing on two channels of a 200.4 in my car.

mylows10
06-14-2012, 10:44 AM
wanna sell the old set that was in your car ? jacob

sundownz
06-14-2012, 10:46 AM
wanna sell the old set that was in your car ? jacob

Sure. I'll try to have it swapped over this weekend so I can do some more in-car with the new set.

mylows10
06-14-2012, 10:47 AM
pm me a price jacob.

dbjunior
06-14-2012, 10:51 AM
Would be great if you made an active set without crossovers for less.

sundownz
06-17-2012, 01:51 PM
I got the set installed yesterday with the final mids in my VW Golf -- sounds fantastic. Much less fatigue than the prior prototype set -- I had it up to my max listening level all the way back from the shop (15 mins or so) with very minimal listening fatigue. I am very pleased with how the set is working out. Both the mid and tweeter are much smoother than the prior set... the prior set sounded good but I found it fatiguing at high levels over long periods of time.

The prior set being what I was working on April of 2011 (which I don't think I posted pictures of)... that set used a woven fiberglass cone and a bit different tweeter design. I did post a shallow set that was very similar which we put in Nick's CRX; but I had a "standard" depth set in my VW.

Little more on my setup... I run them in stock locations with a handful of Audio Technix dampening material on the door (it's already solid unlike most doors so no holes to seal up). I'll get some photos up when I get back to work too... I have an SAX-200.4 on the comp set and my 3x SA-8 v.2 woofers -- so PLENTY of juice on tap. With a correctly configured HPF I do not see any problems running a nice, powerful amp on them like I am doing -- but our official rating will be much more conservative as it has to be flexible enough for inexperienced users.

As of now I have zero EQ work done and I am very pleased; but I do plan to run an RTA and see how the response looks and maybe apply a bit of EQ if I see any major trouble spots due to the vehicle itself (the set itself is super flat out-of-car).

In summary... I am pretty much 100% happy with the performance at the price these are coming in at. I anticipate the price being right at $199 from a dealer even with the mid upgrades we did (so I hit my under $200 target) -- at this price range I think they will be hard to beat if you are looking for a set with a very smooth response with low fatigue.

Goindef154
06-17-2012, 03:13 PM
That's fantastic man, looking forward to getting a few sets :D.

---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------

Not sure if you mentioned but what tweeter did you go with?

Never mind, silk dome ;)

sundownz
06-18-2012, 10:43 AM
[B]Here are some photos of putting them in :

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/00_VW_Golf/SA-6.5CS/CIMG6344.JPG
* The door is already very solid so that is a plus for sure! Crossover is installed on the door itself as well.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/00_VW_Golf/SA-6.5CS/CIMG6345.JPG
* Added some Audio-Technix dampener on all the large flat spots and also behind the mid. Also installed the wooden adapter ring for the mid to the door.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/00_VW_Golf/SA-6.5CS/CIMG6346.JPG
* Some dampener directly behind the mid.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/00_VW_Golf/SA-6.5CS/CIMG6347.JPG
* Made a raid guard out of a few pieces of dampener and some aluminum tape -- this will keep large amount of direct water off the mid. Ambient moisture is really not a concern for the treated paper cone but we don't want water dumping down on it.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/00_VW_Golf/SA-6.5CS/CIMG6348.JPG
* Mid fully installed.

The tweeter is right in the factory location -- nothing special to show there!

I am super pleased with the performance in this price bracket :)

sundownz
06-18-2012, 10:54 AM
I essentially have what 90% of people that buy the set will have -- a basic install, with some minimal dampener, typically in factory spots. As you can see -- no crazy install tricks... but the result is still great sound :)

When I get a moment we'll also do an in-car RTA of it just like this as well.

Dman3047
06-18-2012, 12:08 PM
I need 2 sets.. Hurry up Jacob.. LOL

Popwarhomie
06-20-2012, 11:11 AM
Looking great. Still in for a set.

sundownz
06-21-2012, 07:06 PM
I've already started production; I am just making sure all the details of packaging and whatnot are ironed out before taking any orders. Production time start to in the USA is about 90 days so that puts them in September.

I made a tiny motor modification on production as well by extended the pole out further to get a few more tenths of a millimeter of x-max. Other than that and the nicer back plate finish with our logo etched in production will be basically the same thing that I have in my car.

wenn_du_weinst
06-21-2012, 07:10 PM
I want a pair I'll be watching for preorder.

sundownz
06-28-2012, 10:54 AM
Dropped my crossover to 50 Hz @ 24 dB -- I was stacking ~80 on the amp and ~60 on the HU before... dropped HU crossover completely and dropped amp to 50 Hz. WOW what a difference in mid-bass... love it !

I may drop my tweeter to -3dB after more listening as it's mounted so high in the door -- will try to get RTA first.

Whytellyou
07-29-2012, 04:08 AM
Any updated info?

sundownz
07-30-2012, 11:22 AM
They are in production; waiting for a more solid ETA to open ordering.

wenn_du_weinst
08-02-2012, 07:10 PM
sweet I could use some new mids

Towncar
09-04-2012, 10:30 PM
Hope these go on pre order soon. I will be looking for a mid line set here shortly..

Popwarhomie
09-06-2012, 10:53 AM
X2. My 120.4 is getting dusty waiting on these to come out.

sundownz
09-17-2012, 04:43 PM
Production should wrap up soon -- typical transit time is ~30 days once they depart.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Production_Line/SA-6.5CS_Mids.jpg
* Mids ready with frames and shims for assembly

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Production_Line/SA-6.5CS_Mids2.jpg
* Chromed back plate with logo etched in

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Production_Line/SA-6.5CS_Mids3.jpg
* Going down the line

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Production_Line/SA-6.5CS_Box_1.jpg
* Back of box has mid and tweeter measurements, response graphs, and midrange T/S specs

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Production_Line/SA-6.5CS_Box_2.jpg
* Front of box has feature highlights (yes I know I have an error on there -- too late to catch it!)

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Production_Line/SA-6.5CS_Tweets.jpg
* Tweeters ready to roll

Kangaroux
09-17-2012, 04:48 PM
Lookin good

AwesomeStranger
09-18-2012, 09:00 AM
Really want to get some of these. Wondering if I will need any sort of mods done to fit in my stock doors. 2004 lancer oz rally. Or doing something like custom fiberclass and installing some neopro 6.5's Ideas?

sundownz
09-18-2012, 09:07 AM
This set has a pretty universal mounting flange -- as long as you can fit them depth-wise should be fine.

If you want to run a ton of power the NeoPro-6.5 is probably for you, though =) Just more complexity to deal with buying separate tweeters and active crossover.

AwesomeStranger
09-18-2012, 11:03 PM
This set has a pretty universal mounting flange -- as long as you can fit them depth-wise should be fine.

If you want to run a ton of power the NeoPro-6.5 is probably for you, though =) Just more complexity to deal with buying separate tweeters and active crossover.

True, what's the price on a pair of these when they come out?

BAPEKC
09-19-2012, 12:56 AM
Price?

sundownz
09-19-2012, 08:55 AM
I anticipate the price being right at $199 from a dealer even with the mid upgrades we did (so I hit my under $200 target) -- at this price range I think they will be hard to beat if you are looking for a set with a very smooth response with low fatigue.

Pricing hasn't changed -- still $199 MAP

Pre-Order discounts will be available (TBA).

AwesomeStranger
09-19-2012, 11:52 AM
That's a great price for what what all you get. So you think these will ship out in October, November?

sundownz
09-19-2012, 11:53 AM
I would imagine we'll get them around end of October. Will have to see for sure when they make it on the water.

sundownz
10-04-2012, 04:43 PM
Dimensions :

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/Components/Mid-Level/Dimensions.jpg

AwesomeStranger
10-05-2012, 05:31 PM
Hell yeah! I'm still wondering what I should do, two neopro's or get these and not worry about getting extra tweeters, etc.. What you said earlier about how the neo's will produce more bass is interesting.

AwesomeStranger
11-02-2012, 10:36 AM
Any update on these Jacob?