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DDtC
03-14-2012, 12:51 PM
Ill be running a JL 450/4v2 soon to a set of Rainbow splits. Can anybody give me a ruff idea on setting the CO points? I got the CC-1 so ill be able to dial it in good. I know my ears will make the final adjustment. i just need a starting point.

Here are the speakers.
Mid
Rainbow Audio USA (http://www.rainbowcaraudio.com/175power-woofer.html)

Tweeter
Rainbow Audio USA (http://www.rainbowcaraudio.com/slc-cal25silk.html)

Why So Cereal?
03-14-2012, 12:56 PM
3khz steep slope and move up from there. It's hard to tell really. I started at 3khz 24 db slope and ended up currently at 5khz 12 db slope on mid 18db slope in tweets.

A lot depends on driver placements too.

DDtC
03-14-2012, 01:05 PM
3khz steep slope and move up from there. It's hard to tell really. I started at 3khz 24 db slope and ended up currently at 5khz 12 db slope on mid 18db slope in tweets.

A lot depends on driver placements too.

Factory location for the mid but glassed out. tweeter glassed in the sail panel. i only have the option for 12-24db slopes

CADENCE SOUND
03-14-2012, 01:08 PM
With active, its really all trial and error..

Id play some familiar songs at moderate volumes and do some testing with various xover points untill you find that sweet spot;)

DDtC
03-14-2012, 01:09 PM
With active, its really all trial and error..

Id play some familiar songs at moderate volumes and do some testing with various xover points untill you find that sweet spot;)

I heard its best to cross the tweeter over as low as possible. Is that true from you guys experiance?

fasfocus00
03-14-2012, 01:22 PM
I heard its best to cross the tweeter over as low as possible. Is that true from you guys experiance?

for me a lot depends on the listener. most voices are in the 2-4kHz range, keep this number in mind b/c if you listen to a lot of music that has a lot of vocals closer to 2kHz than you'll want to cross lower. that's just me. if you could get an active crossover that you can adjust the frequency on the fly, that would be ideal to figure out your crossover point. I use the Audiocontrol 2XS and 6XS so changing crossover points for me is not as fast but I usually set it right where the listener is satisfied

DDtC
03-14-2012, 01:28 PM
for me a lot depends on the listener. most voices are in the 2-4kHz range, keep this number in mind b/c if you listen to a lot of music that has a lot of vocals closer to 2kHz than you'll want to cross lower. that's just me. if you could get an active crossover that you can adjust the frequency on the fly, that would be ideal to figure out your crossover point. I use the Audiocontrol 2XS and 6XS so changing crossover points for me is not as fast but I usually set it right where the listener is satisfied

The amp is easy to get to but it wont be that switchable. i will be able to tune it from the cabin

Why So Cereal?
03-14-2012, 01:30 PM
I heard its best to cross the tweeter over as low as possible. Is that true from you guys experiance?

Not in every case. Crossing lower works better when drivers are close together since you'll be switching drivers in the vocal range you'll need them near each other to get that true point source effect. What also works is to have as much of the vocal range come from the mid as possible and use the tweeter to help raise the stage and brighten the vocals. Personally, I prefer higher crossover points in a traditional 2 way. But I think the perfect 2 way IMO would be a midbass and a full range driver that can play down to about 500hz and all the way up. That way, you have point source for the mid / vocal range and u can get away with moving the drivers away from each other and still have stable imaging. But, since no tweeter will drop down that low, that isn't useful in a traditional 2 way. So why not get the next best thing? Most of the mid range from your mid and a tweeter to compliment and raise.

fasfocus00
03-14-2012, 01:38 PM
i just looked at the speakers you have and if you have a 24db slope, i'd cross at 2kHz but if you have a 12db slope I'd cross at 2.8-3.2kHz

nateberrier
03-14-2012, 01:39 PM
Most tweeters end up crossed at 4k or so. I would start there. You can pull it down lower if you want, but they may start to break up. I prefer mine down at 2.5k or so, but I cant afford tweets in the right size that play that low :( I was always under the impression that ideal is a full range driver or component set playing from up high at your face. Obviously thats not possible in a car. The tweeter raises the stage and puts the higher frequencies which are directional at your face similar to if someone were playing on a stage in front of you. The lower frequencies are the less directional they are. IE you cant usually tell where the bass is coming from in your car, but you can tell where the highs are coming from. Your ultimate objective is to have the sound seemingly come from nowhere at you and have the car sound much more spacious and accurate than it really is. If Bill Withers was singing into the right mic from 5 feet away, you wanna be able to hear that. Takes trial and error and personal preference, but I suggest the lower the better. Start out high and pull it down a bit lower so you dont damage them. Also I would probably use a 24 db slope for the tweeters.

Why So Cereal?
03-14-2012, 01:43 PM
i just looked at the speakers you have and if you have a 24db slope, i'd cross at 2kHz but if you have a 12db slope I'd cross at 2.8-3.2kHz

Those tweets normally cross at 3.4khz 12db slope. I'm not sure how low they like to play, but I imagine Rainbow chose that point for a reason. Since, Passives are usually tailored around close drivers, I don't think I'd go much lower than that point but that's just my opinion and of course, like everyone, I'm still learning. :)

DDtC
03-14-2012, 01:47 PM
Those tweets normally cross at 3.4khz 12db slope. I'm not sure how low they like to play, but I imagine Rainbow chose that point for a reason. Since, Passives are usually tailored around close drivers, I don't think I'd go much lower than that point but that's just my opinion and of course, like everyone, I'm still learning. :)

I dont want to pop them!

fasfocus00
03-14-2012, 01:49 PM
Those tweets normally cross at 3.4khz 12db slope. I'm not sure how low they like to play, but I imagine Rainbow chose that point for a reason. Since, Passives are usually tailored around close drivers, I don't think I'd go much lower than that point but that's just my opinion and of course, like everyone, I'm still learning. :)

my recommendation is close, it was based off of the frequency response. I said 2.8-3.2kHz and they recommend 3.4kHz @ 12db.

Why So Cereal?
03-14-2012, 01:52 PM
I dont want to pop them!

I doubt you'll pop em, but if the stock point is 3.4k 12 db slope, the FS of the tweeter is probably around 1700 or lower. 2khz 24 db may work, may not. Be careful with that low of a point though until U see what effects you're getting.

CADENCE SOUND
03-14-2012, 03:51 PM
You wont pop them at low/moderate volumes.

What i like to do is set the x/o to the highest point and work my way down till i hear break up or distortion. I do it by ear first then start to implement the oscope and other tools...

Id trust the opinion of most of the stuff that was already posted, you just gotta be careful, its all trail and error. Once you get it right, believe me you will know:)

fish1234
03-15-2012, 10:28 PM
Do you run any type of in-line protection for the tweeters if wired actively? I am wanting to try my Diamond D6 comps active. Those Rainbows look pretty sweet!

Why So Cereal?
03-15-2012, 10:36 PM
Do you run any type of in-line protection for the tweeters if wired actively? I am wanting to try my Diamond D6 comps active. Those Rainbows look pretty sweet!

U can run a cap inline to protect from system pop and all. But it's not necessary. I run Diamond D6 tweets now. The older ones though. Great tweets.

fish1234
03-15-2012, 10:41 PM
You wouldn't worry about ths inline cap,then? How do you like your new h/u Princ3mo? Tlme for another video, man! What is the cutoff for the Diamond tweets approximately?

Why So Cereal?
03-15-2012, 11:01 PM
You wouldn't worry about ths inline cap,then? How do you like your new h/u Princ3mo? Tlme for another video, man! What is the cutoff for the Diamond tweets approximately?

I don't run one now. But, The new HU is great! Has all of the features I wanted. My only gripe is its not a double din like my last and dumb locals keep asking me why I "downgraded" lol. I'm definitely gonna get some new vids up for ya and any others interested soon man.

I dropped the Diamond tweets to 2khz 24db slope yesterday to test out some different points for the sake of this thread and they altered my tonality too much and made some voices sound nasally (EQ work probably wouldve fixed it though). I put them at 2.5khz and it was better but at high volumes they distorted pretty quick. (when I say high volumes I mean HIGH, like vocals screaming down the road type high, I really had them going) 3.15khz 18 db slope seemed to be a nice spot for them at their lowest if u wanna go full tilt. I think they'll handle 2.5khz steep slope as long as you're not wide open all day. I still ended up putting them at 5khz 18db slope though because I like my mids to play pretty high and just let my tweets handle the top end and not too much midrange.

I say base your points off Your mid, if u have a mid that can play high and cover most of the vocal range, let it. And vice versa.

fish1234
03-15-2012, 11:12 PM
I don't run one now. But, The new HU is great! Has all of the features I wanted. My only gripe is its not a double din like my last and dumb locals keep asking me why I "downgraded" lol. I'm definitely gonna get some new vids up for ya and any others interested soon man.

I dropped the Diamond tweets to 2khz 24db slope yesterday to test out some different points for the sake of this thread and they altered my tonality too much and made some voices sound nasally (EQ work probably wouldve fixed it though). I put them at 2.5khz and it was better but at high volumes they distorted pretty quick. (when I say high volumes I mean HIGH, like vocals screaming down the road type high, I really had them going) 3.15khz 18 db slope seemed to be a nice spot for them at their lowest if u wanna go full tilt. I think they'll handle 2.5khz steep slope as long as you're not wide open all day. I still ended up putting them at 5khz 18db slope though because I like my mids to play pretty high and just let my tweets handle the top end and not too much midrange.

I say base your points off Your mid, if u have a mid that can play high and cover most of the vocal range, let it. And vice versa.

Thank You, Sir for advice. Very glad you enjoy your new h/u. I'm anxious to get my set up going. Got some work to do.