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View Full Version : Buck Box Designs /// 6th order AQ hdc3.0 single 10"



Qexler
02-07-2012, 05:28 PM
Hey everyone, Me and Buck have been good buddies for a while and I am posting this log to show his absolutely LEET skills... Not to mention I took his Quasi 6th order virginity and I must say... He did a hell of a job. I will be posting on this thread periodically adding photos from the build to keep you all eager for the next photo and an ending video ;]
This is a single 10" AQhdc3.0 10" and I have managed to cram this Quasi 6th order into the trunk of my 4 door 2006 Cobalt SS, It is powered by a single 1500W Audiopipe amp at 1 Ohm.

--- Thanks to Buck
--- Any Questions and comments are 100% welcome!

http://i44.tinypic.com/242bw5t.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/jfgkmw.png

Qexler
02-07-2012, 08:27 PM
Building it up!

http://i42.tinypic.com/154hiqf.jpg

She is right in there!

http://i42.tinypic.com/35mjn8x.jpg

Buck
02-07-2012, 09:27 PM
:woot:

---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------

I'm not going to lie, I was a little nervous.

Qexler
02-07-2012, 09:58 PM
If we get some input and posts I will put up the picture of it just barely fitting in my trunk... And a flexxx video tomorrow.

Buck
02-07-2012, 09:58 PM
Yep, we are rocking this thread solo man.

TheUnderFighter
02-07-2012, 10:01 PM
Curious, what are the benefits of a 6th order? What's the point?

Buck
02-07-2012, 10:07 PM
Curious, what are the benefits of a 6th order? What's the point?

I look at it as tunable output. You are utilizing the front and rear wave of the woofer and controlling both.

Kangaroux
02-07-2012, 10:09 PM
Curious, what are the benefits of a 6th order? What's the point?

Very good efficient and peaky, but they are called a bandpass for a reason...not a huge range of frequency response

Buck
02-07-2012, 10:15 PM
Very good efficient and peaky, but they are called a bandpass for a reason...not a huge range of frequency response

Just depends on how they are designed. With a substage that most people want, a huge frequency response isn't required. Really people want 20's to about 60 (extreme to extreme), and that's easily obtainable. If I did a 6th (which I'm considering), then I would make it to play crazy low. It may only play up to 45 or 50, but I don't care. That's what I want. So basically I can narrow my bandwidth and increase my output.

Qexler
02-07-2012, 10:29 PM
this box actually hits just as accurate and hits higher notes WAY better than my standard ported box.

Kangaroux
02-07-2012, 10:32 PM
Can't decide if I want to do a ported box with a balls load of port or a 4th/6th for my 18....I've come to the conclusion that adding more subs would be a poor choice money wise since I am starting college soon, so I figured I would just refine my current setup. Heavy authority from 25-40 is really all I care about, mainly with the peak being around 33.

Qexler
02-07-2012, 10:41 PM
I'd have buck help you out man, he did mine. And it came out VERY nice. I get punchy notes and LOWWW lows... It hits 25 easy, and it hits a good high 40. Np

Qexler
02-07-2012, 10:57 PM
Got it in there!
This box was huge, after removing the back seats Me and dad just barely got it in
It just fit perfectly though.

http://i42.tinypic.com/v4cygg.jpg

oldschoolboomer
02-07-2012, 11:04 PM
Video

Qexler
02-07-2012, 11:14 PM
Gotta get posts! Video will be up tomorrow.

duanebro
02-07-2012, 11:25 PM
I would like to know how firing the rear port into the front chamber works? Does it act like a normal 6th order because the front port has unloaded?

looks like a nice box. Have fun with it!

Buck
02-07-2012, 11:26 PM
I would like to know how firing the rear port into the front chamber works? Does it act like a normal 6th order because the front port has unloaded?

looks like a nice box. Have fun with it!

It's hard to explain, at least for me.

Kangaroux
02-07-2012, 11:28 PM
I would like to know how firing the rear port into the front chamber works? Does it act like a normal 6th order because the front port has unloaded?

looks like a nice box. Have fun with it!

Maybe Moble Enclosurs could chime in. But don't expect a short response lol

sobe3yourself.
02-07-2012, 11:29 PM
1" wood? looks thick.

Qexler
02-07-2012, 11:33 PM
Its 3/4" thick MDF, and the baffle is 1" pressed Wood.

The_Grimy_One
02-07-2012, 11:37 PM
Yummy. Wish I could hear this. Bet its ridiculous.

Moble Enclosurs
02-08-2012, 12:43 AM
If you look at a typical quasi 6th order, you will notice that it is not much different than a typical bass reflex firing into another area at which, based on even more physical constraints, the resonances within that area also conform to the response. If you look at the word quasi, you will see that in definition it says something about resemblance and looking like something but not all the way. Well, in this particular design, it resembles a BR in a vehicle with a measurement taken just outside the window of the vehicle, 3 ft away. But it also can have an acoustic,al resemblance to a tapped enclosure in which the phase of the rear signal has to be in phase with the output of the second chamber in order to increase efficiency and in turn increase output at a power constant. This is why they can be very efficient, much like a tapped design, but the big difference between the two is that the tapped design utilized back wave propagation for extended low frequency response. The quasi 6th does not. It utilizes resonances and small room acoustics for increased gain even before the vehicle is taken into consideration.

So, basically what happens is, you figure for the response calculation of the rear chamber resonances and response, and figure what it will do in the accompanied space of the second chamber with its response, and figure for a combined response with a specific phase correlation between that and itself, and that within another complex environment in which more resonances and modes are excited creating more gain and loss based on volume and distance, and then conform them together to get a final response and phase at a specific listening position or even an average of the entire room. (take a breath). So, in essence, a quasi 6th order can become very efficient, but uses one chamber to limit its response to a specific tuning factor and then uses that response combined with direct driver radiation into another chamber that again limits that response into a different tuning factor which is combined with vehicle gain at the end.

It is not known that the quasi design acts like a bandpass in a sense that the front or rear chamber is sealed, but in a sense that the direct driver radiation has already contribut3ed to the response before final tuning, where as we know, it only exits one port. And at the end, the terminal velocity and intensity at that port determines the bandwidth, which is like calculation for a single port without combining direct driver radiation as the box volume itself is always considered a filter of some sort. Direct radiation is more broadband, hence the smoother output in be and sealed designs than bps. But I wouldn't call a quasi 6th an typical bp. I consider it quasi and that's it.

Moble Enclosurs
02-08-2012, 12:48 AM
Its much like designing a bass reflex in a room with no losses. And getting the response from the outside of the only window instead of in the room. you treat the second chamber like a room and figuree for its gain in the response curve and add that mathematically to the response from the first chamber and the driver. But not that simple to do correctly.
This is why you see a lot of tapped boxes, because sometimes the physics involved are very similar.

Moble Enclosurs
02-08-2012, 12:52 AM
why do you think trucks can get so loud at comps? The less airspace coupling between the box and the cabin, the more the truck sounds like your in a box.....because after a certain ratio, you kind of are. And why in house response can have more losses because it's larger. Etc etc its all physics really

Moble Enclosurs
02-08-2012, 01:05 AM
And I actually shouldn't say "no losses", I should say, minimal absorption losses.

brandinooooo
02-08-2012, 02:04 AM
why do you think trucks can get so loud at comps? The less airspace coupling between the box and the cabin, the more the truck sounds like your in a box.....because after a certain ratio, you kind of are. And why in house response can have more losses because it's larger. Etc etc its all physics really

I was thinking about that the other day. Having a walled truck is just like a 6th order with the windows as a adjustable port.

Moble Enclosurs
02-08-2012, 02:35 AM
I was thinking about that the other day. Having a walled truck is just like a 6th order with the windows as a adjustable port.

precisely. But only as a 6th if the wall is ported. If it's a sealed wall, it acts as a common 4th. Unfortunately for those who do not accurately figure for cabin gain, this is not an accurate way to model it simply by adding the vehicle volume into the design, due to resonances of oblique shapes and reverb as well as absorption loss.

brandinooooo
02-08-2012, 03:42 AM
precisely. But only as a 6th if the wall is ported. If it's a sealed wall, it acts as a common 4th. Unfortunately for those who do not accurately figure for cabin gain, this is not an accurate way to model it simply by adding the vehicle volume into the design, due to resonances of oblique shapes and reverb as well as absorption loss.

Yeah I meant a ported one. If I were ever going to start entering comps I would wall a truck. I would account for every little thing so I could use it as a 6th order.

Qexler
02-08-2012, 07:49 PM
Fine Tuning still being done, Got another photo! But the Vid will have to come another time sadly =/ Still gotta work out some small kinks.

http://i44.tinypic.com/nx87b7.jpg

Moble Enclosurs
02-09-2012, 02:15 AM
You're right, that is a close fit :D nice work guys!

Qexler
02-09-2012, 12:01 PM
thank you, i wanna seal it off before i go doing a video. the seal walls will be mounted slightly outwards loll. cause the box hangs out just like 2 inches. not sure what i wanna use yet. i know i am gorilla taping the edges so i don't ruin the car. i think i will use .25" wood for its seal though. taping it around the actual Car and silicon around the box edges

Qexler
02-11-2012, 05:00 PM
Videos Coming up today here in about 1-2 Hours :crazy:

Moble Enclosurs
02-11-2012, 05:32 PM
Word

Qexler
02-11-2012, 05:33 PM
vid vid vid vid vid


http://youtu.be/8t6dutYrMOk

vid vid vid vid vid

Moble Enclosurs
02-11-2012, 05:36 PM
Got you some pressure going through that sunroof hey? Nice man!

Qexler
02-11-2012, 05:37 PM
tyty, and yes I do... I gotta keep it opem or it slaps metal.

Moble Enclosurs
02-11-2012, 05:38 PM
I noticed lol. Glad your happy with it....even though it wasn't one of mine lol. Great work guys

Qexler
02-11-2012, 05:39 PM
lolll, Just need to seal it... H/o alt. Big 3. And I will be set.

Epic0318
02-11-2012, 05:41 PM
nice. for a single 10 thats bumps. whats the highest and lowest note that setup will hit with some real authority?

Buck
02-11-2012, 06:33 PM
I noticed lol. Glad your happy with it....even though it wasn't one of mine lol. Great work guys

I appreciate it.

Qexler
02-11-2012, 06:55 PM
It will hit 40hz very well and also hit down around the low 20's very well.

Qexler
02-11-2012, 10:24 PM
come on you people! Can't we get more input on this Quasi! Buck deserves it =]
And you all gotta comment and stay tuned in so I can seal it off and have some
sort of an inspirational crowd!

Qexler
02-11-2012, 10:24 PM
come on you people! Can't we get more input on this Quasi! Buck deserves it =]
And you all gotta comment and stay tuned in so I can seal it off and have some
sort of an inspirational crowd!

Buck
02-12-2012, 12:19 AM
Man you have some sunroof flex. ****. I love the amount of output at the low frequencies. I heard someone say at one time that neither 10's nor AQ's could hit lows....lol.

Qexler
02-12-2012, 11:53 AM
Well It is a ten and it is Quaking low =]

Kangaroux
02-12-2012, 12:02 PM
Nasty. I can't wait to get a 4th order built up for my 18, should get pretty loud lol

galacticmonkey
02-12-2012, 05:12 PM
Cool box. Ever get it metered?

Id like to try a 6th order someday.

Flastrongman
02-12-2012, 05:39 PM
Get it on the meter man!

Qexler
02-12-2012, 09:01 PM
Have to find a place to meter.

Kangaroux
02-12-2012, 09:05 PM
Gonna tell you right off you are probably gonna be disappointed with the meter, bandpasses aren't very meter friendly lol

Fi-brations
02-12-2012, 10:37 PM
Yah just cause it's loud doesnt mean it's got a high spl, I think how it sounds is more important than numbers though unless you are just trying to have spl

Buck
02-12-2012, 10:43 PM
SPL is useless in a DD. It's just a number. Perception is where it counts.

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 PM ----------


Yah just cause it's loud doesnt mean it's got a high spl, I think how it sounds is more important than numbers though unless you are just trying to have spl

Where in Tennessee are you?

Qexler
02-12-2012, 10:48 PM
I figure it will hit a good number on its peak, The lows obviously wont hit a high number... But they do hit unbelievable for it begin a ten.

Fi-brations
02-12-2012, 11:09 PM
SPL is useless in a DD. It's just a number. Perception is where it counts.

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 PM ----------



Where in Tennessee are you?
Memphis

plugger
02-12-2012, 11:40 PM
how would this box compare to a 15" hdc3 in just a slot ported box built to spec off the same power

Buck
02-13-2012, 12:07 AM
The 15 would have more overall output but wouldn't play as low with the authority of this one, if you go by AQ's recommended boxes.

Moble Enclosurs
02-13-2012, 03:50 AM
Man you have some sunroof flex. ****. I love the amount of output at the low frequencies. I heard someone say at one time that neither 10's nor AQ's could hit lows....lol.

wow, they must have been living in a small world lol. And again, great work Buck :D you deserve it.

Mitch86
02-13-2012, 04:20 AM
Nice box! Looks like it gets down pretty good for a single 10. :D

CAT MAN
02-13-2012, 04:30 AM
this makes me want to get on my trunk wall. but now. .a 6th order that i dont have room for .. i have designed many 6ths but they are all too big for my trunk . best of luck to ya on the meter.

galacticmonkey
02-13-2012, 04:32 AM
Yeah, the way it sounds is way more important than a single number on a screen. I'm just curious.

And who says bandpass boxes aren't meter friendly? All the loudest Extreme
Class vehicles doing 178-183db are all 4th orders.

CAT MAN
02-13-2012, 04:38 AM
Yeah, the way it sounds is way more important than a single number on a screen. I'm just curious.

And who says bandpass boxes aren't meter friendly? All the loudest Extreme
Class vehicles doing 178-183db are all 4th orders.

this man speaks truth!...hell actually you may be the man i need to hook up with (no homo) i have an idea but i think only you can set it in motion.


back to the facts . any 4th order/6th gets nasty loud audibly and number wise. IF they are built correctly.

mlstrass
02-13-2012, 05:42 AM
looks like a series tuned 6th order....

I run my AQ's in a clamshell that's a series tuned 6th order...

Qexler
02-13-2012, 07:57 AM
I know the song put on is absolutely ridiculous... The first note is a tiny buzz. Then comes a slightly larger buzz... Then the third drop is like chaos (makes my full water bottle dance like crazy) and the lowest note basically rips everything apart lol.

galacticmonkey
02-13-2012, 07:21 PM
this man speaks truth!...hell actually you may be the man i need to hook up with (no homo) i have an idea but i think only you can set it in motion.


back to the facts . any 4th order/6th gets nasty loud audibly and number wise. IF they are built correctly.

Well if you ever need anything, I'm only a PM away.

Buck
02-13-2012, 07:27 PM
Yeah, the way it sounds is way more important than a single number on a screen. I'm just curious.

And who says bandpass boxes aren't meter friendly? All the loudest Extreme
Class vehicles doing 178-183db are all 4th orders.

That's cool to know. Didn't realize that. Does this include Alan Dante's volvo?


looks like a series tuned 6th order....

I run my AQ's in a clamshell that's a series tuned 6th order...

Si


I know the song put on is absolutely ridiculous... The first note is a tiny buzz. Then comes a slightly larger buzz... Then the third drop is like chaos (makes my full water bottle dance like crazy) and the lowest note basically rips everything apart lol.

:laugh:

galacticmonkey
02-13-2012, 07:32 PM
Sure does. It's just a tiny sealed box, barely big enough for the magnet in the back corner of the car. The rest of the vehicle is a big ported chamber with a loading wall and a big center console to help raise the peak note on the dash.

Most all Extreme vehicles are this way. A ported box hasn't been competitive in Extreme for the last 5 years.

Buck
02-13-2012, 07:37 PM
Hmm. Interesting. I would like to see the inside of one of these vehicles. I assume its probably a secret.

galacticmonkey
02-13-2012, 07:47 PM
I've seen a few of them at SBN just leave their doors open for people to see. The secret is out.

Buck
02-13-2012, 07:48 PM
I've seen a few of them at SBN just leave their doors open for people to see. The secret is out.

At that point I assume it's testing after testing after testing.....ya.

galacticmonkey
02-13-2012, 07:55 PM
Yep. I think I'm going to make a thread about 8th orders for fun. I'd be interested to try one. I've built a ton of 4th orders, seen a ton of 6th orders, but never seen an 8th.

Buck
02-13-2012, 07:59 PM
I don't understand what the benefits of it are supposed to be over say a 6th. I get how they work, just seems unnecessary.

TheUnderFighter
02-14-2012, 04:34 AM
Looks sick. You need to hit up Kanaroux to get a proper bass-track to show off some solid flex! It should really pound when it's sealed and properly power. You really shouldn't need an HO-alt for a measly AP1500, they're just so darn inefficient. Big 3 should make a huge difference though. Any plans to throw a bit more power at it?

Qexler
03-17-2012, 10:43 PM
AP18001 D is the upgrade so far... I am currently building a Lighter, smaller, daily box so I can fold my seats down if I wish. and I am making a shell that will fit around this box to wall it and be easily removable.