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winkychevelle
02-01-2012, 07:38 AM
i dont know what happened here but to sum up my question i want to run something like an id 8 under the dash of my truck in the center ported to like 65 hz to gain a midbass boost.
my door are already deadened will this work or is there an easier way short of glassing door pods or changing my mids

maylar
02-01-2012, 08:06 AM
Mid bass is more like 100-250 hz and should be stereo.

T.I.K.
02-01-2012, 08:25 AM
run some 6.5 mid woofers in the back, no tweets, and cut them off at like 500hz just so there isn't too much else besides mid-bass going to them... that's what I would do.

Bettr n' Revrse
02-01-2012, 08:31 AM
You could try some sealed pods instead of running more IB in the doors...

T.I.K.
02-01-2012, 08:41 AM
is there an easier way short of glassing door pods or changing my mids


You could try some sealed pods instead of running more IB in the doors...

Just sayin.

Kangaroux
02-01-2012, 08:42 AM
run some 6.5 mid woofers in the back, no tweets, and cut them off at like 500hz just so there isn't too much else besides mid-bass going to them... that's what I would do.

Midbass is directional so having it behind you may not work

T.I.K.
02-01-2012, 08:50 AM
Midbass is directional so having it behind you may not work

Only thing i could think of :/ If he doesn't drop them in the rear factory locations, he's gonna have to glass/cut something.

winkychevelle
02-01-2012, 08:57 AM
well i was generally wanting to draw my bass more towards the front so it would blend better at higher volumes

Kangaroux
02-01-2012, 09:23 AM
Cut out the current hole to fit an 8" then put like a 3" or 4" up higher in the door

keep_hope_alive
02-01-2012, 09:29 AM
show a picture of your doors as they are now - with the panels removed.

deadened does not imply fully sealed. you need a near airtight seal to get midbass. that includes seals on the front of the driver - sealed to the door panel. but sealing the large holes is where you get HUGE midbass gains.

on the scion we had the doors like this for a few months
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/2005sciontC/IMG_1556.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/2005sciontC/IMG_1570.jpg

midbass was ok but not great. everything was good but we knew the ML woofers could be better.



then we closed them up like this:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/2005sciontC/IMG_1563.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/2005sciontC/IMG_1580.jpg

amazing difference. more midbass than we could ever want or need. ran without a sub for a year and had useful response down to 50Hz with the ML-165 woofer.

winkychevelle
02-01-2012, 09:49 AM
thats about what my doors look like except my panels slide down on to the door so i had to leave roughly six 2x2 holes for the hooks on the panel to attach the door other than that the only place my seal is broken is the front of the speaker to the panel which i agree needs to be fixed but i cannot see much gain there.

and my mids will extend down to 50 at moderate levels im just trying to get the same response at a little bit higher level which right now when i hit the loudest my mids will play comfortably with the 63 hz hpf 24db slope i still have alot of bass volume available i dont want much of a boost i just want the bass to stay up front a little better. when i demo it for people i do it a moderate volume and thats awesome but when i want to crank it all my bass gets dragged to the back of the cab

jirehn
02-01-2012, 09:51 AM
I think it is better to have more mid bass.

J31Rob
02-01-2012, 09:53 AM
Deadener definitely doesn't help midbass output. Just throwing that out there.

winkychevelle
02-01-2012, 10:38 AM
bump trying to bring my bass towards the front of the cab is the end goal

winkychevelle
02-01-2012, 08:34 PM
bump

winkychevelle
02-02-2012, 12:53 AM
so nobody wants to help me out hmm guess ill try it and see.

does anyone think a pair of bass shakers could pull the bass forward if i mounted them under the front seats running stereo

keep_hope_alive
02-02-2012, 01:13 AM
Deadener definitely doesn't help midbass output. Just throwing that out there.

You're right, it reduces the overall output by reducing resonance.
Having sheet metal doors ringing out at 120Hz certainly doesn't help the system sound worth a darn.

I prefer accuracy over output. Deaden all you want, it won't come close to how dead a proper MDF enclosure could be. But we certainly don't build enclosures with thin sheet metal... :)

I try to make cars not sound like cars.

KyleBechtold
02-02-2012, 01:20 AM
so nobody wants to help me out hmm guess ill try it and see.

does anyone think a pair of bass shakers could pull the bass forward if i mounted them under the front seats running stereo

thats not bass.. thats just vibrations..?

winkychevelle
02-02-2012, 01:31 AM
well a suggestion of how i would get my bass to sound like it was more in front of me would help. id rather not have to build pods or kicks. my doors are deadened inner liner and outer door skin plus mlv and ccf really dont think i need to do much more to them. i can run more power to my mids right now but it would require a higher hpf setting and they are already getting 80w a piece. if i need to put subs in front of me the only option i really have is on the trans hump.

KyleBechtold
02-02-2012, 01:39 AM
well bass or midbass? sub bass should be omni directional.. so IDK exactly what you are looking for.. if there is not enough midbass and you don't want to do more work to the doors than different speakers would be your answer.. or more..

Why So Cereal?
02-02-2012, 01:46 AM
I'm thinking different speakers. You said your current ones extend to 50hz at moderate levels but to 63hz when u crank it...so they're extending low enough...sounds like u just want more output. In that case, if you cant upgrade to 8's, try to find a 6.5" driver that will move more air (more efficient, more excursion...).

Also, I'd check to be sure you're not getting any cancellation...T/A or flip midbass phases, reverse sub polarity...all free things you can try.

Maybe try a lower xover point on your subs? steeper slope? make sure its not rattles in the back giving away sub location? ...

KyleBechtold
02-02-2012, 01:51 AM
make sure its not rattles in the back giving away sub location? ...

big one here.. if you can locate the sub you may have an issue.. tuned to high, port noise, something in the back rattling.. etc

winkychevelle
02-02-2012, 01:54 AM
just bass when i have my system playing low you cant really locate where the bass is coming from due to the mids overlapping with the subs but when you turn it up to where i comfortably listen to all the bass seems to be coming from the back and rather than dial down my subs id rather find a way to bring the bass upfront.

i have seem a sq competitor actually put a 10 in the dash of his car to pull the bass toward the front. and i was wondering if anyone had experience with this. my mids cant keep up at higher volumes which is why i thought a sub with a high fq tune could help mesh the system together. im no sq competitor but i would like or it to sound good.

if it takes my building pods then i will i just really dont have the time right now to do fiberglass and the weather stinks right now wet and rainy + fiberglass = waste of my money

Why So Cereal?
02-02-2012, 02:08 AM
Ive seen cars with 5.25s upfront have good upfront bass. Its just all in how u make it work. Sounds like youre really looking for more midbass output. I hear the Massive CK6s are very strong on midbass. Also if u haven't already, bridge the amp to your fronts.

Could be the subs or enclosure too. Like stated, the bass should be omnidirectional. Some subs are simply not good in this regard and when u really crank em, they'll give tthemselves away. A better enclosure helps this sometimes.

Slayerx
02-02-2012, 02:11 AM
Sounds to me you're trying to use your mids to compensate for an inadequte sub install. Midbass and bass are different, and as stated earlier bass is omnidirectional and various things can cause the bass to be noticeably coming from the back of the car. Increase in midbass wont correct this.
Now if you truly are lacking midbass, the only options I see would be using dedicated midbasses in the doors and 3-4" mids elsewhere, or get more efficient mids or ones with more excursion and power handling and add the appropiate power

winkychevelle
02-02-2012, 02:36 AM
i dont have rattles and the box is sealed downfiring. my mids normally cross at 80hz and the sub the same when i demo though i lower the hpf to 63 since it sounds better at moderate volume and if i have a couple guy who just want to hear bass anyways it makes the bass stand out more and since the subs are behind me under the rear seat u can pretty much tell where they are. truck boxes sux i know this.

maybe i need to try a lower lpf.

i really wish i could build a ported box tuned to 30 like i normally do but i would have to drop down to 1 ten or a pair of daytons. and since this is a shop demo truck i need to run what i can sell.

winkychevelle
02-02-2012, 02:44 AM
Also if u haven't already, bridge the amp to your fronts.

unfortunately u cannot bridge the rockford pbr300x1 but i have a pair of pbr150x2s coming in that i can try the mids on one with. im just concerned with the power handling on the mids. while memphis has amazing quality its hard to find anyone running more that 75w to a set let along 80per mid. i could swap them with a set of the 8s they make but i still would have to cut up my door for this

Slayerx
02-02-2012, 04:15 AM
i really wish i could build a ported box tuned to 30 like i normally do but i would have to drop down to 1 ten or a pair of daytons. and since this is a shop demo truck i need to run what i can sell.

You might be better off with a single good 10 ported. Especially if its a bit more of a quality sub than those shallow mounts. What are you're other options for subs? I might have missed it, but what slope is your lpf? Sealed shallow mounts without a sharp slope could definitely give away the subs location, and possibly even overpower your mids at 80-100hz. Try a lower lpf for sure.

winkychevelle
02-02-2012, 04:50 AM
trying to stay with rockford or memphis thinking maybe 1 p2 10 or memphis pr or m class 10 ported but the shallows really surprised me.

the current slope is 80hz at 12db slope lpf can switch to 24db
and 63hz at 12db hpf during demos and 80hz and 24db hpf daily

i think om gonna try and lower the low-pass and try the steeper slope at current settings
my eq is flat right now save or a 2db boost at 32hz

mlstrass
02-02-2012, 07:00 AM
show a picture of your doors as they are now - with the panels removed.

deadened does not imply fully sealed. you need a near airtight seal to get midbass. that includes seals on the front of the driver - sealed to the door panel. but sealing the large holes is where you get HUGE midbass gains.

on the scion we had the doors like this for a few months
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/2005sciontC/IMG_1556.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/2005sciontC/IMG_1570.jpg

midbass was ok but not great. everything was good but we knew the ML woofers could be better.



then we closed them up like this:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/2005sciontC/IMG_1563.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/2005sciontC/IMG_1580.jpg

amazing difference. more midbass than we could ever want or need. ran without a sub for a year and had useful response down to 50Hz with the ML-165 woofer.

That mid is why you had good midbass. Same with the AA poly or CF mids and the Exodus Anarchy. They all play low and have a lot of xmax...

keep_hope_alive
02-02-2012, 02:43 PM
before the doors were sealed, midbass was ok - not great. after seals the midbass is heavenly.

midbass requires seals and is installation dependent - regardless of the speaker chosen. any decent 6.5" can produce adequate midbass for 90% of the systems out there.

trumpet
02-02-2012, 05:44 PM
1. You absolutely must seal the doors as keep_hope_alive has been very helpful to describe.
2. Doubling the power to your mids is not going to make as much of a difference as the sound deadening work you've done. At best you'd gain 3 dB from just doubling the power, which is audible but it's not that great.
3. I haven't tried time alignment in a truck but it can help greatly to increase the illusion of up front bass by delaying the signal to the mids.
4. Stop any noises caused by the bass vibrations. In my car I still have to figure out how to make my trunk lid stop vibrating, but vibration damping was critical to improving up front bass.

winkychevelle
02-02-2012, 09:05 PM
1. You absolutely must seal the doors as keep_hope_alive has been very helpful to describe.
2. Doubling the power to your mids is not going to make as much of a difference as the sound deadening work you've done. At best you'd gain 3 dB from just doubling the power, which is audible but it's not that great.
3. I haven't tried time alignment in a truck but it can help greatly to increase the illusion of up front bass by delaying the signal to the mids.
4. Stop any noises caused by the bass vibrations. In my car I still have to figure out how to make my trunk lid stop vibrating, but vibration damping was critical to improving up front bass.

the truck is deadened and the doors are a sealed as they can be.
my front speakers are time aligned and run active as well as the subs are time-aligned left and right

trumpet
02-03-2012, 12:47 PM
the truck is deadened and the doors are a sealed as they can be.
my front speakers are time aligned and run active as well as the subs are time-aligned left and right

Subs don't need to be time aligned. You should have 0 delay. Delay only the speakers.

keep_hope_alive
02-03-2012, 03:00 PM
verify sub and midbass are in-phase.

okiedokie
02-03-2012, 04:20 PM
Hey winkychevelle.
Are you still thinking of adding a 8 under your dash?

When you place a sub in a box within a box you will get more bass.
You might be having phase issues.
Have you tried to reverse the phase on the sub?

I'm not sure if you ever heard of Diycable-Anarchy mids?
kevin is thinking of releasing them in 4ohms vs 8ohms that he has now.
you can run them in 2way or 3way setup.Yes they will pound the hell out of your doors.
They are have a nice tonality in the midrange, no cone breakup under 2k, the midbass is very punchy.
you could run them down to 50hz
You need to figure out what tyoe of midbass you like.
I like snappy fast midbass, like Hertz, CDT es line,Seas,H-audio vs Scanspeak.morel,Dynaudio,which are more punchy.

Are you really stuck on fosgate subs?
I mean you can try out Sundown,Fi,Audioque,RE,SSA,or Skar which sound much better then fosgate subs.
A Sundown 8v2 will walk all over fosgate.

I'm running a F.A.S.T. setup,I built kick pods for my 2-8's.
I have them x-over @ 63hp & 300lp in mono.
I'm about to change my setup up again.

I'm looking at running 1-8 under my passsenger dash.
2 markaudio mids with Sb Acoustics tweeters on my dash.
With 2-8v2 when they come out.