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View Full Version : How do I make my own 3-way component system?



KRN
02-01-2012, 12:00 AM
I was looking into putting a 3-way system in my front doors. 1 6-1/2" woofer, 1 4" midrange, 1 tweeter. My amp that'll be pushing it runs 200 watts rms @ 2 ohms and 100 watts rms @ 4 ohms. How would I choose speaker rms ratings? Is it broken down to 60% woofer watts plus 30% mids and 10% tweeter watts or something similar? I was looking at the Accuset MX-33.4E 3-way crossover. Would this work my application? Please help I'm lost with entire 3-way thing.

perfecxionX
02-01-2012, 12:08 AM
http://www.caraudio.com/forums/speakers/146726-active-vs-passive-attempt-me-explain.html

in a passive network each speaker will see the full 200@2ohm and 100@4 ohm. Youll need to find speakers that will perform well on the crossover points that the morel crossover is set at (700, 3800). The only way to really do that is to look at the supplied data from the speaker manufacturer (frequency response/impedance graphs, t/s specs). To be honest it sounds like you really need to do alot of reading before you jump into a project like this. Building a 3 way setup off of a passive crossover that was not designed for those specific speakers is not a great idea. If your set on doing a passive three way just find a complete set from a manufacturer IMO.

KRN
02-01-2012, 12:31 AM
Just looking at speakers, there arent too many 3-way 6 1/2" speakers without tweeters mounted on them...I may just go with a 3-way system package. Is Focal any good? Worth the money? Any other suggestions similar to the Focal K2 Power 165 KRX3 100 watts rms @ 4 ohms? maybe a little bit more affordable..

fasfocus00
02-01-2012, 12:36 AM
are you set on running a 3-way setup? you could run a good 2-way with an extra midrange. just a suggestion.

KRN
02-01-2012, 12:39 AM
how would i go about adding a midrange to a 2-way system? im trying to keep it on the same channel from amp

perfecxionX
02-01-2012, 12:39 AM
I'd suggest deciding on a budget first. You can spend 100$ or 10000$. The focal k2s are pretty popular but ive never heard them myself. Focal generally is pricey stuff and i think ive heard the k2s are power hungry so 100w may not be adequate.

3 Way (http://www.woofersetc.com/c-41-3-way.aspx?minprice=99999&maxprice=0)

zako
02-01-2012, 09:32 PM
If you have unlimited budget, it's hard to beat Hybrid Audio Legatia gear. We're talking about spending maybe around $1200-15000 or more on L1V2, L4SE, and L6v2 drivers when buying new. However, it would be kind of a waste without a more robust processor. Something like JBL MS-8 would do the trick, or BitOne (if you like tuning all things yourself). If you're on a tight budget, consider JL Audio C5 653. The 2-way C5s are pretty good, I assume the 3-ways are good as well. If you don't like how they sound in passive mode, then feel free to replace the passive crossover box with your active crossover. Personally, I wouldn't run 3-way speakers without an advanced processor. Active crossover is not enough. You want time alignment, advanced eq, etc. Something like JL Audio MS-8 would usually do the trick with very little tuning work.

CHEMMINS
02-01-2012, 09:44 PM
Bah....buy a decent 6.5" comp set, power it passive with one amp, and add pair of 8's to the mix powered by another amp. Voila....cheapest best sounding 3-way you can make on yer own.

Falcons
02-01-2012, 09:58 PM
dude just buy a two or three way component set and go active. it is much easier, and unless if you do a great job and know a lot about passive, it will sound better.

CHEMMINS
02-01-2012, 10:05 PM
dude just buy a two or three way component set and go active. it is much easier, and unless if you do a great job and know a lot about passive, it will sound better.


If he doesn't know how to set up his own 3 way, you shouldn't recommend active.

keep_hope_alive
02-01-2012, 10:05 PM
or buy a 4" component set and then a dedicated 6.5" midbass and have an even cheaper 3-way set that fits your needs.

Alpine SPX-107R with the SPX-17MB add on mdibass. It's a few years old but i see them for sale for cheap, and the passive crossovers that come with them are AWESOME. super flexible for bi-amp with adjustable crossover points and slopes.

power isn't split by some fixed amount, nor will each driver see the full amp rating. music is dynamic. how much power each speaker gets depends on the signal level in the recording at the range of frequency for the driver, the amplifier gain structure, the impedance load seen by the amp at that range of frequencies - for that instant. tweeters are more efficient and since our hearing is more sensitive to high frequencies, less signal level is required in the mix, and less power is required to drive the speakers. midbass and bass requires much higher signal levels and more power to sound as loud.

if you want to mix-n-match drivers- you run active with a processor. if you want an off-the-shelf solution - you buy a comp set.

with the two amps you could run the smaller amp to a standard 4" component set and use the HPF in the amp. Then you could run the midbass on the larger amp, but you need a bandpass crossover, preferably active, and few amps have that feature. so then you need an active crossover in the mix - a doable thing. even a simple electronic 2-way crossover could work. the typical crossover frequency between 4" mid and 6.5" midbass is around 300Hz, depending on the airspace, driver separation, and driver construction. if they are all in the door, and share airspace, the 6.5 will distort the 4".

with a 700Hz crossover point (with your current crossover plan) you would be better suited with a closed back or dome midrange driver.

Eclipse sold an inexpensive 3-way with a 6.5" woofer and dome mid and tweet. Eclipse SC8365

if you want to spend a grand or more on a comp set - have it professionally installed with door pods.

Falcons
02-01-2012, 10:06 PM
If he doesn't know how to set up his own 3 way, you shouldn't recommend active.
its easier than starting from scratch and building everything yourself.

or buy a 4" component set and then a dedicated 6.5" midbass and have an even cheaper 3-way set that fits your needs.

Alpine SPX-107R with the SPX-17MB add on mdibass. It's a few years old but i see them for sale for cheap, and the passive crossovers that come with them are AWESOME. super flexible for bi-amp with adjustable crossover points and slopes.

power isn't split by some fixed amount, nor will each driver see the full amp rating. music is dynamic. how much power each speaker gets depends on the signal level in the recording at the range of frequency for the driver, the amplifier gain structure, the impedance load seen by the amp at that range of frequencies - for that instant. tweeters are more efficient and since our hearing is more sensitive to high frequencies, less signal level is required in the mix, and less power is required to drive the speakers. midbass and bass requires much higher signal levels and more power to sound as loud.

if you want to mix-n-match drivers- you run active with a processor. if you want an off-the-shelf solution - you buy a comp set.

with the two amps you could run the smaller amp to a standard 4" component set and use the HPF in the amp. Then you could run the midbass on the larger amp, but you need a bandpass crossover, preferably active, and few amps have that feature. so then you need an active crossover in the mix - a doable thing. even a simple electronic 2-way crossover could work. the typical crossover frequency between 4" mid and 6.5" midbass is around 300Hz, depending on the airspace, driver separation, and driver construction. if they are all in the door, and share airspace, the 6.5 will distort the 4".

with a 700Hz crossover point (with your current crossover plan) you would be better suited with a closed back or dome midrange driver.

Eclipse sold an inexpensive 3-way with a 6.5" woofer and dome mid and tweet. Eclipse SC8365

if you want to spend a grand or more on a comp set - have it professionally installed with door pods.

i love this guy!!!

keep_hope_alive
02-01-2012, 10:06 PM
If he doesn't know how to set up his own 3 way, you shouldn't recommend active.

now is as good of a time to learn as any other. i agree that active requires sufficient equipment so you can properly filter the signals, and it is complex with a high risk of driver damage from improper settings.

pre-made passive is easier, but mix-n-match passive is very difficult to pull off without a good amount of knowledge.

Falcons
02-01-2012, 10:08 PM
now is as good of a time to learn as any other. i agree that active requires sufficient equipment so you can properly filter the signals, and it is complex with a high risk of driver damage from improper settings.

passive is easier, but mix-n-match passive is very difficult to pull off without a good amount of knowledge.

thats what i thought we were talking about, thats why i offered active lol.

CHEMMINS
02-01-2012, 10:08 PM
if you get a passive 2 way setup....add a decent 8 inch driver to run separate off the amp on a low pass only it is easy to incorporate it all together.

keep_hope_alive
02-01-2012, 10:11 PM
if you get a passive 2 way setup....add a decent 8 inch driver to run separate off the amp on a low pass only it is easy to incorporate it all together.

you are assuming he can fit a 6.5" mid and 8" midbass without heavy modifications to the door. we don't even know the vehicle.

CHEMMINS
02-01-2012, 10:15 PM
you are assuming he can fit a 6.5" mid and 8" midbass without heavy modifications to the door. we don't even know the vehicle.

This is true. There really is no reason for the OP to run a 3 way. I personally would just run a 2 way passive and be done with it if I were him.

I am installing a 4" component set wit an 8" to make a 3-way in the wife's touareg.

keep_hope_alive
02-01-2012, 11:59 PM
I have been running a 4" mid and 6.5" midbass for years and I am happy. I run the following crossover points:
Subwoofer: 80Hz 24dB/oct LPF
Midbass: 63Hz 24dB/oct HPF and 250Hz 24dB/oct LPF
Midrange: 315Hz 24dB/oct HPF
Tweeter: 4kHz 24dB/oct HPF

I run the mid without a LPF because it is off axis in the kick and has a natural roll off that I verified with my RTA. When on-axis I varied the LPF frequency and slope but minimum overlap was preferred.


Most 6.5 can easily play down to 63Hz, and I don't see a need to HPF lower. The benefit is to run the midbass in the door where you have sufficient airspace, but you can place the midrange for better PLD or ITD.

Why So Cereal?
02-02-2012, 01:28 PM
I have been running a 4" mid and 6.5" midbass for years and I am happy. I run the following crossover points:
Subwoofer: 80Hz 24dB/oct LPF
Midbass: 63Hz 24dB/oct HPF and 250Hz 24dB/oct LPF
Midrange: 315Hz 24dB/oct HPF
Tweeter: 4kHz 24dB/oct HPF

I run the mid without a LPF because it is off axis in the kick and has a natural roll off that I verified with my RTA. When on-axis I varied the LPF frequency and slope but minimum overlap was preferred.


Most 6.5 can easily play down to 63Hz, and I don't see a need to HPF lower. The benefit is to run the midbass in the door where you have sufficient airspace, but you can place the midrange for better PLD or ITD.

Pics of said kicks?

I had almost identical xover points at one time but the mids were in my stock door locations with midbass in kicks (scion tC) and I got more highs from the passenger side assuming since it was more on axis. It would really pull my stage down on the right side too since my tweets were on the dash.

keep_hope_alive
02-02-2012, 02:00 PM
Pics of said kicks?

I had almost identical xover points at one time but the mids were in my stock door locations with midbass in kicks (scion tC) and I got more highs from the passenger side assuming since it was more on axis. It would really pull my stage down on the right side too since my tweets were on the dash.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/Copyofpasskickdeadenedclose.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/Copyofpasskickozclose.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/Accord_Apillar001.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/Accord_Apillar003.jpg

midbass is vented
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/accordkickmids034.jpg

keep_hope_alive
02-02-2012, 02:12 PM
my speakers have changed but locations and mounting is the same.

new mids are Dayton 4" - the side mid baffle is removable (recessed 1/4-20 t-nuts in the base) and here are two new baffles.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/accordkicks2012001.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/accordkicks2012003.jpg

i tested side kick vs floor kick while my midbass was in the door. i recently moved midbass back to the floor so i could start on FG pods for new midbass in the doors - will be sealed door pod that replaces the bottom half and uses the existing volume for sealed airspace. should be fun.
this was during recent testing - i had a 4" mid in the floor, made an adapter to take the place of the woofer with waffle grill for strength. people commonly put there feet on the floor grill. on-axis response was great - well above 10kHz.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/accord/accordkicks2012007.jpg

sadly, the new Silver Flute woofers are too deep and wide for the floor, and too big for the door as-is. i had the option of doing 2-way with the woofers in the kicks - angled, but that would require full demo of all kick work to date. i figure door pods are a better first step. :) i don't want to lose music during the process!