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da0s44
01-02-2012, 12:32 PM
Hello all.

Im have a dilima in my Sequoia. I just recently installed a set of Focal 165 k2p components in some kick panels. The only other speakers I have in the truck are my subs. My problem is it sounds like the sound stage is waaaaay too low. Like literally coming from the floor. Now I installed the tweeters and the midrange drivers in the kick panels down by your feet. Is this the problem? I always thought the speakers were supposed to go down there.

I wanna bring the sound stage up to ear level. What would be the easiest way to do this? Would installing a 4' and tweeter up on the A pillar do the job? Is there an easier way than that?

da0s44
01-02-2012, 12:54 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/daos1234/IMG_1055.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/daos1234/IMG_1054.jpg

Hope this helps a bit.

trumpet
01-02-2012, 01:32 PM
I can see right away a major problem with those kick panels. That's the worst possible angle for the tweeters. They're firing straight into the bottom of the dashboard, and on the driver's side the parking brake lever is also causing problems with reflections. The best solution would be to put those kick panel enclosures in the trash and make new ones after experimenting with aiming of the mids and tweeters.

I don't know how the off-axis performance of those Focals sounds but you might be ok leaving them where they are, but again not in those kick panels. Re-aiming them with a towel behind them would be better than assuming this orientation is ok. Try moving your head so your face is close to directly in line with the phase plug.

I could suggest a product that would easily raise your sound stage, but I think it's better to get your value out of those Focals by improving the install first.

Why So Cereal?
01-02-2012, 02:00 PM
I agree with Trumpet. Its become a pretty common misconception that if you put your mid and tweeter in your kicks that you will automatically just get great imaging and staging. If that were the case, everyone would just go grab some prefab kicks and go compete SQ. When it comes to running comps in kick panels, aiming is critical. There's so much stuff down low to block/ reflect sound that you have to compensate for. Then even after compensating for parts of the car, there's still, in some cases, your own leg to consider that could be causing issues. Kick panels can be great but they require work and, from what I hear, alot of trial and error.

If youre not really up to perfecting kicks, you can just perfect a door install for your mids and then find a higher spot for your tweeters (but you will still need to play with aiming and placement here too). What kind of HU do you run? Some time alignment could help as well if you decide to go with doors and even in kicks at times.

Why So Cereal?
01-02-2012, 02:01 PM
double

BnGRacing
01-02-2012, 02:11 PM
Do a web search for ambient tweeters.

But in a nutshell; you basically install tweets in the a-pillar and aim them at each other. The key is crossing them over at the same freq and attenuating them to the point where you don't really know they're there. This basically fools the mushy bits between your ears in thinking the music is coming from the hood of the car instead of the floor.

This is a lot easier than aiming and constantly tweaking the position of the speakers in your kicks. And even with the perfect install, you'll get the 'rainbow' effect if you move the seat. That's not the case with ambient tweets.

da0s44
01-02-2012, 03:25 PM
Wow thanks alot guys!! Been ice skating with the kids so I appologize for not getting back sooner. Ambient tweeters sounds interesting. Does anyone on this forum provide a service to build me a tweeter and 4" midrange pod for my A Pillar? I would like to get the most out of these Focals but it seems as if I'm gonna have to find someone local to build the kick panels that will work. I'm in Baton Rouge, LA so if anyone knOws a good installer please recommend.

Oh and I use a Kenwood DDX6019 as my head unit so nothing special there.

Why So Cereal?
01-02-2012, 03:29 PM
If you can, I'd first try leaving the mid in the kick and just move the tweeter up higher. this doesnt always work but its free to try and it just may do what you want as for raising the stage.

jerseyboy
01-02-2012, 03:38 PM
Maybe you can use the same kick panel and just add something to angle the tweeter better! I don't see the angle of the mid being a problem but I do see an issue with the tweetsr though! You'll be surprised how much something so little affect it. I have the same type of set up and when my gf sits in my car I have to tell her not to stretch her legs out because it blocks the sound a lot!!

da0s44
01-02-2012, 03:41 PM
Yeah maybe I could try the surface mount pods that came with the set. Interesting idea.

jerseyboy
01-02-2012, 04:12 PM
Or you can get some butyl rope (whatever the name is) or some of the clay thing ppl use and put it on the side of the tweeter you want to lift to angle them better! If they work well but look awkward then you can try to use the kicks as a base mold but throw some FG on top to make it look better and make them stronger!!

trumpet
01-02-2012, 04:56 PM
There are problems with having someone else build speaker pods for you. 1) to get it right requires testing different positions 2) even if they have the same speakers and the same vehicle the builder doesn't have your ears and your listening preferences 3) not every mid and tweeter sounds good with generic aiming, i.e. toward an invisible point between the headrests

I second the opinion of moving the mids into the doors and trying to get the best sound from those locations. Generic kick panels don't have much air space, and those mids will probably sound great in your doors.

On the subject of "ambient tweeters", I have experience with this in a "plug-n-play" package that can be tuned and installed in just a couple of hours. I sell the CDT Audio UpStage systems. I just thought I'd mention that in case you want to discuss it.

da0s44
01-02-2012, 05:12 PM
There are problems with having someone else build speaker pods for you. 1) to get it right requires testing different positions 2) even if they have the same speakers and the same vehicle the builder doesn't have your ears and your listening preferences 3) not every mid and tweeter sounds good with generic aiming, i.e. toward an invisible point between the headrests

I second the opinion of moving the mids into the doors and trying to get the best sound from those locations. Generic kick panels don't have much air space, and those mids will probably sound great in your doors.

On the subject of "ambient tweeters", I have experience with this in a "plug-n-play" package that can be tuned and installed in just a couple of hours. I sell the CDT Audio UpStage systems. I just thought I'd mention that in case you want to discuss it.

Please do so via PM as soon as you can. I would love to purchase whatever it is and get the ball rolling to better imaging.

Why So Cereal?
01-02-2012, 05:16 PM
Before you just go buying new stuff, work on the install with what you have. Even the system he recommends may not work or it may cause other issues by simply adding another tweeter.

Even if you buy another "ambient tweeter" you will still need to play with the install. Why not do the free stuff first? Stage height is fairly easy to fix with a little placement and aiming changes IMO. Even some EQ work can fix stage height.

murph
01-02-2012, 05:22 PM
If you decide to put the mids in the doors I would put the tweets up top facing the opposing headrest. Also a headunit with time alignment will change the perspective of where the sound is coming from.

wenn_du_weinst
01-02-2012, 05:25 PM
If you decide to put the mids in the doors I would put the tweets up top facing the opposing headrest. Also a headunit with time alignment will change the perspective of where the sound is coming from.
don't aim those tweeters on axis, fire them straight across dash at each other. Get a dash mat, play around with the phasing and start off with the mids in the kicks. make sure to seal the old tweeter hole.

da0s44
01-02-2012, 06:30 PM
If you decide to put the mids in the doors I would put the tweets up top facing the opposing headrest. Also a headunit with time alignment will change the perspective of where the sound is coming from.

I could put some tweeters in the factory locations.

http://pbckt.com/pd.OIHBnI

For some reason the image isn't loading from my iphone

da0s44
01-02-2012, 06:45 PM
What's a dash mat and where can I buy one?

wenn_du_weinst
01-02-2012, 06:52 PM
ebay and it's exactly what it sounds like a carpet that goes on your dash. It absorbs the sound that bounces up and down from your dash and windshield.

da0s44
01-02-2012, 07:43 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/daos1234/IMG_1056.jpg

There is my factory tweeter location. I guess I could always try and locate a Focal tweeter in that spot.

AlterEgo99
01-02-2012, 07:57 PM
Or get an Alpine CDA-9887 with Imprint like I have.... perfect soundstage. Just sayin'.

wenn_du_weinst
01-02-2012, 08:03 PM
we already told you the best way to use them why do you keep trying to put them in other places?

da0s44
01-02-2012, 08:31 PM
I was just suggesting. Just trying to cover all angles here and make sure to let you guys know everything that's available.

winkychevelle
01-03-2012, 12:09 AM
im guessing you picked your equipment up from davids car audio in br . id say get them to make dash pods for the tweets but theyll prolly charge you out the rear. maybe try innovative in denham springs, mobile one out of the new orleans area did some great work but idk if there even open any more

da0s44
01-03-2012, 05:07 PM
Update**

Looks like I found a good installer. He is going to use the kicks as a base and build them up. Remove the tweets and relocate them to the A pillars facing each other.

jerseyboy
01-03-2012, 05:27 PM
let me get this correct. you have the midrange and tweets in the kicks. do you also have some mid bass in the doors?? you can keep the midrange and tweets down in the kicks. I have them that way and it sounds very good. this is how I have mine
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc307/Cranberry_Legend/1320688779.jpg

wenn_du_weinst
01-03-2012, 05:31 PM
let me get this correct. you have the midrange and tweets in the kicks. do you also have some mid bass in the doors?? you can keep the midrange and tweets down in the kicks. I have them that way and it sounds very good. this is how I have mine
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc307/Cranberry_Legend/1320688779.jpg

you also have a very different car

jerseyboy
01-03-2012, 05:41 PM
very true but its the same concept.

wenn_du_weinst
01-03-2012, 05:42 PM
it still means nothing that it sounds good in your car, because your using different equipment in a different car. it will sound much different in his car.

jerseyboy
01-03-2012, 05:50 PM
i was just using it as an example since he feels that he needs to move his tweeter to the top and buy mats and all of that. I know its different cars and different equipment but it cant be that different to the point where it cant be used to give an idea..

da0s44
01-03-2012, 09:09 PM
I like that idea of simply turning the kicks upside down. Makes since. Oh well I have an installer already making the panels. We are still going to test tweeter location before he seals up the tweeter hole. I would really like to keep the midrange and tweeter together if possible but feel I'll prolly be moving it to the A pillar. Where are the sail panels located by the way?